Walden University

Denise Miller August 29, 2006 at 12:16 a.m.

This is a for-profit college...your information is wrong. And, everything they do is aimed at making a profit :-)

RC October 1, 2006 at 11:37 p.m.

I'm a student of Walden, and I can tell you, I'm totally satisfied and have learned a great deal. It is a great school. I don't believe UOP has a psychology program either.

MBA October 31, 2006 at 12:04 a.m.

UOP uses a new blackboard program they just switched....

Mohammed Mamun January 14, 2007 at 8:08 a.m.

Walden is a great school. I'm enrolled in their MBA program specializing in Management of Technology. The curriculum is just as challenging as most bricks-and-mortar school; you have to put in at least 20-25 hours per week per class. The only drawback with the school is the lack of AACSB accreditation; my undergraduate degree had both regional and AACSB accreditation. However, since Walden is regionally accredited, most employers will respect the degree. Additionally, their faculty members are very knowledgeable and hold degrees from top schools in the country. I highly recommend this school to those that are serious about getting a good education.

Just a Guy February 24, 2007 at 11:30 a.m.

As the growth of online education continues I do not understand why anyone would even consider an online university that does not also have traditional on-campus programs. "Schools" such as Capella, Walden, NCU, Phoenix, and others are not well respected by academia or human resources professionals in business. There are a large number of traditional state supported schools which now offer online degree programs in a wide variety of fields. I would recommend going to the websites of traditional "brick and morter" universities and looking for their Online, Distance Ed, Outreach or other non-traditional programs. You will find that the majority of them do offer online programs both at the bachelors and masters level often at considerably less expense than the "For Profit" online "Schools". Honestly which would you rather put on your resume, a school like Kansas State University (Just an Example of a traditional school that offers online programs) or an unrespected school like Phoenix, Capella, Walden, NCU or a host of others.

P.S. If you are looking for a PhD go to a traditional campus program. Online PhDs are just very expensive pieces of paper.

JAG

LA March 24, 2007 at 7:27 p.m.

Julia,

I would recommend you possibly contact alumni from Walden University in the program of your choice to see how their degree has faired in the job market. I think that would provide you with more solid evidence than anything else. I would recommend doing this for any institution you decide to go to whether it is an online institution or a bricks and mortar institution. There should be links to alumni e-mail addresses that should help you out.

Bo Bo Shan March 27, 2007 at 5:18 a.m.

Just a Guy's input is rooted totally in bias and he is in this and other forums to promote some agenda of "superior traditional online" but does not provide specific examples of how or why traditional campuses are superior. His logic in one of my prior exchanges with him was rooted in the concept that A) Online is basically an invalid form of education. B) Unless the online education comes from a traditional college. C) Because when someone sees a traditional college name on the degree, they would not think it was from an online college.

Just because a degree is from a state school does not make it better, his argument was that it just appears to be better because it is not from school known to be "online".

As you can see, this is a straw-man argument.

Walden is a great school and one of the online colleges trying to do it right.

MBA Lite April 10, 2007 at 3:57 p.m.

I understand that for-profit online as well as ground Universities can be considered to deliver a less than top-notch degree. However, I may make the following claim since I am actually a MBA student at such a school and I have graduated, with honors, from a highly-respected state University with my Bachelor's degree (Western Connecticut State University)
My undergraduate degree molded me into a well-rounded intellectual person. I learned Italian and Spanish languages as well as history, humanities, etc. Yet, it is the MBA program that has helped me to evolve into a well-rounded business professional. I defeated my fear of public speaking with the presentations (I am a ground student), polished my writing skills, and I have a strong understanding of the basics of an MBA.
So while it may be considered MBA Lite, I know what it has accomplished for me-and around my busy full-time work schedule. I will simply be prepared to explain this to a future possible employer.... Good luck to everyone on their educational journey!

MTT April 25, 2007 at 1:40 a.m.

RRFO I am thinking about enrolling in the Masters program for counseling at Walden and wanted to know how has it been for you so far?

Johnny Action.. May 19, 2007 at 6:12 a.m.

I am about to graduate from walden's MBA program so I am biased. I will say that overall I feel I have to do more work online at walden than if I was attending a "real" class. A couple of classes were easy, but that's just because I have taken the subject matter before. A few classes were real ball-B***ers and overall I have a better understanding of how the different areas in business interact.

Daniel May 30, 2007 at 5:33 p.m.

Here is the PHD program I was accepted to at Nova

http://www.scis.nova.edu/Doctoral/Direct...

Here is the Dsc Program I was accepted to at Dakota St.

http://www.departments.dsu.edu/gradoffic...

Could I get everyones input into which program is better?

Nova is a national 4th tier school, while Dakota St. is a regional 3rd tier. What does this indicate about which school is better?

Thanks everyone
-Dan

Master Teacher June 14, 2007 at 3:44 a.m.

I have just completed my Master's Degree in Reading and Literacy and I can tell you WITHOUT A DOUBT it was not a cakewalk as a lot of people make it seem like when you get a degree online!!

In fact a lot of teachers in my district are pursuing their degrees at traditional brick schools and most of my classes match up or are even TOUGHER than theirs!

I pursued my Master's at Walden because first of all it was affordable, and it is a NATIONALLY ACCREDITED SCHOOL, that alone speaks volumes!! From my understanding if a school is accredited by one of the 6 national accreditation agencies that is what matters more than anything! Walden University is a great school if you are a teacher looking to use proven research-based strategies in your classroom, and the classes are not boring! I learned more in my two years here than I EVER did with my undergrad degree (which I did receive from a traditional school!)

Not to mention I am already DONE with my degree whereas a lot of my colleagues are still working on theirs! So..in my opinion it is a great school, and as so many have stated already..it is not where you received your degree that matters.. it's what you do with it!! ( I believe our bonehead President got his degree from an Ivy League school did he not????)

Pat June 18, 2007 at 8:30 a.m.

My concern with Walden's PhD in clinical psychology program (that's all I can talk about since it is my field)is the following:

Looking at their passing rates for the most important test psychologists have to take at the end of their program to get licensed, Walden's students totally SUCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most schools have a rate of at least 50% of their students passing the first time; Walden does not even appear on many EPPP test sheets, put forward every 6 month by the Board of Psychology. I would call that a total failure !

Todd June 22, 2007 at 10:50 p.m.

Walden's educational degrees are not guaranteed licensure! They claim accreditation but states do not honor the degree. They do not back their programs. Review the fine print, compare course work with someone from your state board of examiners before dropping one dime. Now I have to backtrack to complete the Educational Leadership degree through another state institution.

Ahmad June 24, 2007 at 9:59 p.m.

It's true that many brick and mortar universities are currently trying to implement "online learning" but they don't have the experience in that sense as Walden does. Why do you think traditional universities are trying to do so? Because they know it works.

If you're looking for something good on your resume, then perhaps a traditional brick and mortar university would suffice, even if the whole curricula is nothing short of boring classes and temperamental professors.

If you're looking for rigor, learning catered to your style and needs, convenience, and quality instruction, then I have to vouch for Walden. I'm finishing my MSc in Education right now and all my colleagues who graduated from traditional universities (with Masters) were impressed with the amount of knowledge, practice, and insight that I had gotten from Walden's curricula.

Look, for us educators, when was the last time a university that you went to designed its learning goals via Bloom's Taxonomy? I know that the university that my friend graduated from (a well known state university) doesn't do that.

At Walden expectations are clear and there are several ways that you can get help. You may ask your colleagues, professor, and the academic adviser. No 9-5 office hours to hinder you.

The ultimate test is to do a research on quality of performance of graduates of online and traditional universities. Nevertheless, there are so many variables involved.

Until then, unless those professors who simultaneously work for a brick and mortar university and Walden are just doing it for extra cash, Walden university is as good or better.

Ahmad June 25, 2007 at 1:49 a.m.

Pat,

Walden would not have survived for more than 30 years if it were a diploma mill. No diploma mills have.

There are other resources that you can check whether it's accredited or not.

If it were, then the state that I'm in would not have accepted the credits that I had got for my professional teaching exam. Okay, please don't tell me that now the state's education department is all in cahoot with this mill? :-)

I sincerely think that if you were really honest about your "quality" education, you should just have taken your GRE and pass it like everyone else. After all, online learning is not for everyone, even though classes are offered by the Ivy Leagues and Oxford-Cambridge's.

Well, American students always rank lower than their Asian counterparts mainly Japan and South Korea, can we say that our education is not of high quality? If we use your logic, no wonder you find the GRE requirement idiotic. :-) So, please, keep your self-indulgence of your so-called "made for higher quality learning" at bay. We don't even know whether you even got to college for that matter.

Basically people, do your homework and go for it. If you're in academia, your mantra should be "either you publish or perish" regardless of where you graduated from.

Ahmad June 28, 2007 at 4:35 p.m.

Pat,

Good for you. Honesty is when you can substantiate your claims that Walden is a diploma mill. The Oregon Students Commission of Degree Authorization has quite a list for you to inspect.

You may visit them here: http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccred...

I wish you the best of luck in your academic endeavors.

Pat July 2, 2007 at 8:52 a.m.

Hi Iris

I can't say much in regards to your field of study, but let me say this; both institutions are "businesses", in the run for making a lot of money.
If I would have to choose between Walden vs. Alliant, I would definitely go with Alliant, simply for the reason that they have accreditation that is not only regional, but additionally from the body that oversees the field, which in my case is psychology. Walden does not . The difference can be clearly seen in the very different curiculae and in the passing rates on the state exam. Walden is basically non-existent there.
You should find out, what your accreditation body is (Professional Accreditation for the field of business) and weigh your options carefully. Employers usually look for accreditation, since most would not understand, or have the time (or both) to explore if your degree had the appropriate curriculum.
Try this here, hope it helps: http://www.mbaworld.com/page/dbacriteria...

Pat July 3, 2007 at 5:28 a.m.

Ahmad

Ref.

Todd June 22, 2007 at 10:50 p.m.

Walden's educational degrees are not guaranteed licensure! They claim accreditation but states do not honor the degree. They do not back their programs.

Alim July 8, 2007 at 1:07 a.m.

I am thinking about attending Walden in the fall. However I keep changing my mind due to the fact that I 'm wondering how how employers will look at my degree once I have earned it. I just want to hear an honest opinion about the school. Another school I am considering is Fielding University. It is a DL school that offers a Ph.D in Clinical Psych. It is also APA acredited.

rachel July 10, 2007 at 4:15 a.m.

I am a current student at Walden University. They are accredited, but their programs may not be. I am a student for the Master's in Public Health, and I am having a hard time finding an internship because their program is not accrediated by the Council of Public Health ED. In fact I am stuck because I need to complete an internship, and I am not able to find a place that will take me because the program is not accredited. When I contacted the Vice President of the school, he had nothing to say, other than just keep looking. WHERE?? The agencies have turned me down because the program is not accrediated nor recognized. I am in 60,000 worth of debt, I can't finish my internship, and no one from the school will call me when I call them. I cannot graduate because of the degree mill..
They want money BIG time..
Don't go here.. your degree is worth nothing, you will be in debt, and you may not be able to finish their program because accredidation problems with their programs.

Jon July 20, 2007 at 7:47 p.m.

For counseling psych students, that degree and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee at MickeyD's in Indiana or Ohio. As for the debate on accreditation, it is what it is. For most employers and brick and mortar schools, it is the Gold Standard in college credits and degrees, fairly or unfairly. An education costs alot of money. Too much to take a chance on some of these schools. The curriculum may be tough and you may even learn something, but if you can't use it, it doesn't help you much.

Dr. B (ABD) July 26, 2007 at 10:32 p.m.

During a colloquia on Saturday, one of our recent graduates announced her new associate professor position at a large state university in Raleigh, NC.

The School of Psychology had one of its AYR where they do face to face for 2 weeks. PSYC AYR students must do 500 face to face clinical hours. In one of their cognitive sessions, they dismissed 20 out of 60 students (who had to leave campus) for not passing an assessment. And rigor is still questionable?

It was recently announced that Dr. S.R, a Walden 2000, Applied Management and Decison Science graduate recently received tenure at Penn State University and is a faculty chair over one of the master’s degree programs there. We all know how traditional Penn State is. I contacted Dr. Robinson and she told me point blank that her professional activities and publications spoke for her. Not once did Penn State question her Walden credentials. In fact, she sits on the committee to hire other members of faculty. She was also appointed editor in chief of a peer reviewed journal. join www.alliedacademies.org. Degree not accepted huh? lol

Another one of our alums (Ivo Janenka) was recently appointed to Harvard U’s faculty. Rigor? Accepted?

We also have a host of Harvard alums currently earning their master and doctoral degrees at Walden U.

If you look at our faculty, we are 98% Ph.D. covered in every program. In fact, we no longer higher people without Ph.D.'s

Unlike many insitutions, we have a face-to-face component that is required of all Ph.D. and Ed.D students.

Dr. B (ABD) July 26, 2007 at 10:33 p.m.

Unlike any other distance learning institution and most “dirt schools”, Walden University sponsors the publication of 3 peer reviewed journals and hosts 2 peered-professional conferences each year. The only thing we’re lacking is our own press, which I hear will be coming in the next few years…. watch out University of Chicago. Rigor? Besides Oxford and UoChicago… how many other institutions have this? lol

KAMs…. well… my first one took me a year to complete and was 133 pages. I guess that’s why they’re 14 credit hours each. APA…. had to learn it like the back of my hand. Rigor?

Accreditation: besides carrying some and seeking other professional accreditations for its degree programs, Walden U is accredited by the NCAHLC which is the same accrediting body of University of Chicago, Northwestern, and Notre Dame. Rigor still a question? lol

Walden University carries the Carnegie designation for being Doctoral Research Intensive. ALL Rigorous schools carry this designation….

I know a young lady who was excused from the university for not meeting adequate progress… .so be careful. work those kams out.

Someone above mentioned not being able to find an internship, well there are people from ivy league schools who cannot get an internship... and they're from accredited programs. One of my friends graduated a few years ago in the top of his class from Emory and cannot get a real job to save his life. He's an assistant manager at baskin robbins.

Someone else mentioned the shortage of PhD business faculty but cannot get a job and don't know what's wrong.... well... have you been published in a peer reviewed journal? presented at refereed conferences? PUBLISH OR PERISH!!! :-)

Walden is fully accredited by the NCAHLC (ncahlc.org). Its nursing program has specialized accreditation. It has also made application to the public health and counseling (cacrep) accrediting bodies for accreditation and are now in a period of self study. Please know that this take at least 3 years!

Just thought I’d add my few comments on this issue. Unlike many other institutions, traditional and non, the Walden degree is gaining ground! We’re bringing about social change through our research and it is showing.

In closing, Walden makes it easy for anyone to enter the University. That’s because we have a mission of broad access to higher education; one that most universities do not have. On the flip side, they make it hard as hell to stay in and graduate. lol

I love Walden University…. GO WALDEN!

I am not a paid representative for Walden…. I wish I were… that way I would not have to pay $4100 a quarter in tuition. lol If any of you would like to know more about Walden, check out www.waldenu.edu,

Concerned student July 27, 2007 at 5:57 p.m.

Aim, I was also considering Fielding University and Walden University. Did you ever make your mind up on which school you are going to attend? As anyone graduated from Walden University with a non-licensure PhD in Psychology that can give me advice.

interested reader August 9, 2007 at 4:39 p.m.

To Dr B (ABD) You stated on July 26, 2007 @ 10:32 " In fact, we no longer higher people without Ph.D.'s" Umm... the word is HIRE. Your level of writing improved at Walden?

Dr. B (ABD) August 12, 2007 at 9:48 p.m.

Interested Reader: thank you for correcting me. I suppose that it's possible to make a simple grammatical error in the defensive, yet factual, manner in which I typed my response. So thanks a bunch!

What is interesting to me is that out of all the TRUE and POSITIVE things I wrote about Walden University, you found time to knit-pick and try to embarrass me.... but it didn't work.

I'm just happy you took the time to elevate yourself and read my post.

Regards.

Dr. B

Mar August 28, 2007 at 10:24 p.m.

I am starting my Walden Education Masters program in 1 week and would like to hear from someone that has completed it. They already lost my transcripts so I am a bit leery. It also seems strange that I sent my application to California, transcripts to Maryland, got my materials from Illinois, and they are centered in Minn. Not sure I like the rigorous words used on this website. I have a full teaching load, coaching and have 5 kids. I want quality over quantity. If anyone has info on Education Masters please let me know. I have one week to decide for sure.

Ahmad September 9, 2007 at 9:12 p.m.

Dr. B, thanks for the info. When exactly did Walden become non profit?

HLJ September 22, 2007 at 8:18 p.m.

Dr. B

Your point about Laureate Foundation may be right. However, I am in the middle of a Walden MBA right now, with AMDS under serious consideration. 4.0 GPA so far (knock on wood). While readings and assignments are rigorous enough, I am very disappointed in lack of professorial participation and feedback. Also, eCollege technical support is the pits and the bursar and financial aid staff seem semi-literate (in writing and basic arithmetic). Classroom access is on again-off again. Also, why on earth did they appoint a lawyer without a Ph.D as the next president? His resume is OK but nothing special.

Dr. B September 23, 2007 at 11:34 p.m.

Hi Again, HLJ.

I forgot to mention this. The eCampus is going through transition right now and has been since early summer. Walden is switching to a new format that includes new student and faculty emails...etc. They have not been too effective in getting the change done... but it's not Walden's faulty.. it's eCollege's.

Also... I had a recent issue with the financial aid people... for some reason they had me taking a leave of absence..... never have I submitted nor seen such a form.... but this was cleard up quickly with a phone call. But of course the same things happened to me while in college at a huge traditional university. Maybe it's growing pains?

Dr. B September 25, 2007 at 2:08 p.m.

HLJ... hi. Today you should have received an email from Presiden Kaplan announcing an upcoming survey designed to get student input. The results will be shared to the student body once completed. Dr. Peinovich did one like this about 2 years ago. Be sure to take this survey. Every voice really does count.

B

Dr. B September 27, 2007 at 1:49 a.m.

HLJ.... you still should have left candid statements. there was nothing to say you had to put in a working email address. plus... the survey would have moved on if you had not put in those email addies. lol

keep your head up man. did you get the email from the provost today regarding the new licensure master's program in the College of Education? i think that's a pretty big move. many distance learning programs in education won't even touch those necessary for licensure track.

intersting.

HLJ September 27, 2007 at 11:01 p.m.

More Walden Administrative Incompetence - HUGE contrast with excellent academics.

I am posting this publicly because I am sick "going through channels" in Walden's bursar and financial operations and receiving nothing but confusion. I spent MONTHS on email and in phone calls this year trying to solve this mess. But here we go again:

This evening I logged on and saw a "bursar hold" on my account. This after (1) being told my financial aid was all set for 2007-2008, (2) after being told everything was fine, then being told my financial aid forms (FAFSA, etc.) hadn't been received and were needed by mid July, (3) looking at my online account in mid-July and seeing a statement that all forms had been received, and (4) receiving a sizable refund due to excess payments.

Obviously everything is NOT "fine". All I get is buck-passing. "You need to call Sallie Mae, not us" etc. etc. And then Sallie Mae bounces the ball back.

Can ANY reasonable person believe this makes any sense?

Moral - if you want to attend Walden (which academically is a very fine institution) AND avoid such chimp-like management, try not to need financial aid and pay everything up front. Admittedly not realistic for most people but at last you have none of this nonsense.

HLJ September 28, 2007 at 3:13 p.m.

Oh I understand too. :)

I just wish the school's admin would quit "growing" and start functioning.

HLJ October 3, 2007 at 1:23 a.m.

Dr B:

All's now well with my financial aid. Somehow, staff got the message and were very, very helpful. Astonishingly helpful when compared to the past.

DWW:

If you "come" to Walden's Ph.D/Finance program, I may be there with you...depends on how well I do in the MBA program - I'm in the home stretch - and sources of funds. But all indications are it's a superb program.

DWW October 4, 2007 at 10:16 p.m.

Thank you very much Dr. B for you input. I am definately looking forward to a profession where expertise in Finance is needed. According to research, the demand for Phd college professors is expected to boom over the next 5-10 years. My goals are to broaden my horizion in the Finance and Accounting field and then move into an tenure track position at the University level. Your insight will help aid me toward the accomplishment of my goals. I am greatly appreciative. Take care.

Dr. B October 8, 2007 at 1:27 a.m.

Dear Anonymous person.... I understand what you're saying. But the fact remains that Dr. Robinson is still employed by the Penn State system....the graduates of that system are more than likely not going to differentiate the campus...... And regardless of how you may feel, Dr. Robinson is an administrator in that system......

And If you speak with the Waldenite who now works for Harvard, as I have... you'll find that his Walden degree has played a major role in his success. Furthermore, having a strict admissions policy does not guarantee rigor nor success.... but more specifically a lack of funding for those who choose not to pay for their research degree and attend school full-time. Regardless of the institution, there is a certain amount set aside for these positions.... and they choose only the perceived top candidates to fill them. But if these programs were so top knotched....and successful....... why are so many academics from these schools dropping out and remaining ABD.... that's not progress. Where is the support?

I never stated that Walden was better than Ivy League schools. But I do believe that's it's product is just as good. I personally do not want to get a job based off of where I went to school, but rather off of my hard work..ie academic publications and teaching experience.... which has yielded a very nice income for me thus far.

I think that if you did your research, you'd find the Walden degree to be one that is respected and is steadily gaining ground. I cannot speak for other distance learning institutions..... and I think for an institution that has been conferring doctoral degrees for only 38 years.....Walden has made very impressive progress.

Dr. B October 8, 2007 at 3:49 p.m.

Everything that you mentioned in terms of academic camaraderie...... I have done..... both while at residencies and with Walden students and faculty who reside in my area. Even in Mississippi, when it's residency time, all Waldenites leaving my area can fill half of an MD-88 jet.... when boarding it's like one big party because we all know each other. We wear our Walden paraphenalia and it's like traveling with a bunch of friends. No one is a stranger... even the new people.

I agree that the bachelor and Ph.D. degrees should not be wholly earned online. If you check with our accreditor (NCA/HLC), only 2 of the 7 Ph.D. degrees we produce are offered via internet. But students must still attend at least 20 days of residency. Most of our doctoral degrees are correspondence and are ALL heavily research based. I have only taken three internet courses..... the rest of it was conference calls, residencies, travel, email, and mailing hard copies of my research and assignments. It's very expensive but that's the price I pay to study with an elite faculty.

Mentoring and socialization are very important factors to student and graduate success. And as I have stated before, I can only speak on Walden. The socialization is there.... The student/faculty ratio is extremely small. Excellent doctoral faculty mentoring is why our doctoral students are successful. All faculty I've met since enrolling 4 years ago can call me by my first name.... which I sometimes wish never happend because it gets me involved in too much outside work with them. But this is all because I've taken advantage of my academic opportunity and networked my butt off...... not all students do that... traditional or non.

One major factor for me studying at Walden was the fact that I would not be studying with people who are "like" me. I love diversity.... each person has a different experience and can add to my overall body of knowledge. While at residencies we hit the library or computer lab, we hang out, share ideas, and even work up plans to collaborate on academic publications and research. We even hit the local bars.... of course all of this after class.

My doctoral mentor/dissertation chair is a graduate of Harvard where he still lectures. He also has a consulting firm and has taken me under his wing. I've done tons of research for him... and he's even cited my work in some of his work. One of my committee members live maybe 15 minutes from me. She and I meet all the time. My methodology expert is in Florida... she and I talk all the time. Even though this is my personal experience, it is very common at Walden.

As I have stated before... I agree with you... in many instances. But looking at the things you've mentioned.... a Walden education provides all of that.

Respondants October 8, 2007 at 5:52 p.m.

I didn't realize they had residencies, that does change my overall view. But I am still against open enrollment. Also, you mention several times about Harvard professors teaching at Walden. You are almost trying to make the argument that Walden is therefore a Harvard in itself. I am also curious to hear how many professors you have that are on Tenure at Walden.

Your view on APA is a must for any doctoral program along with peer reviews. I have also sacrificed while I had a family, full time job, etc. from a traditional college earning my MS and PhD. But the difference came down to the traditional college forcing me to put all the time I had in acadmics and not in work. I ended up leaving my job for an easier one so I could do the work for school (went from working as an engineer to a cashier because it made my life much easier and I knew I could always go back to being an engineer).

Dr. B October 8, 2007 at 7:33 p.m.

One more thing. I read where you had to change jobs in order to pursue your doctoral degree. I'm sure that was quite an economic slide...... But just like a law degree, a Ph.D. does not have to be an esoteric experience that requires one to change their standard of living. What you did was commendable... but I have a lifestyle that would not have been easy to change (for less)...

Dr. B. October 9, 2007 at 9:17 p.m.

I agree.... lets wait and see. :-)

Respondants October 10, 2007 at 3:38 p.m.

Some of my best friends are executives in industry who are also snobs. Its funny to see that industry snobs don't respect academic snobs, and vice versa. Have you ever talked to someone on tenure? They tend to point out all the flaws in business and how slow businesses are to adapt to new, better ways discovered by academics. When you talk to executives in business, they are quick to point out that academics live in a dream world and don't understand how business work and have unreal templates to follow. It’s all quite humorous. I lived in both worlds, and just felt more comfortable in academia settings.

Dr. B, you have a good outlook and attitude towards your degree. This does make a big difference in how people view you. What is your area of study and what journals have you published in? I work in engineering and more specifically the scientific side of cognitive science and AI. Publications in the cognitive science (A Multidisciplinary Journal), ACM's crossroads, MAA's Mathematical Monthly Journal, and a few others. I don't work in tenure; I work in postdoc research positions.

Dr. B. October 11, 2007 at 1:58 a.m.

Hi Respondants. I too have experienced both sides of the table in terms of industry and the academy. And honestly, I think that the industry is taking lead because they're the ones doing the hiring. Also, I think this is why so many institutions are aiming toward more practical and case based type of teaching..... not to ignore theory but to arm students with the tools they need to immediately apply to their true profession. As a former operations manager for a publicly traded company... I could care less what theories a new graduate I hired knew.... I wanted him/her to know what I trained him/her to do that extremely well. Most managers still feel that way. They just want to be confident that graduates have common sense and have some type of foundation that will allow them to learn the job.

Walden's masters and doctoral programs are all built on a scholar-practitioner model. This helps graduates address both the need of the academy and industry. Students are encouraged to take what they've learned and apply it in everyday life.... especially in their professions to help bring about positive social change. Our bachelor completion program is geared toward career advancement but more toward pushing students into graduate schools.

My area is applied management and decision sciences. My research interests are servant leadership, resilience, management, urban management, higher education, urban higher education, urban policy, and organizational leadership. Most of my work are part of collaboratives and peer conference proceedings. I am currently affiliated with allied academies, which oversees publication of 19 peer reviewed journals. I currently have 4 articles going through peer review. Walden also hosts 4 peer reviewed journals to which i recently submitted to one.. but the process takes about 120 days.

As for your last comment.... I did not take it negatively at all. After telling me you're an academic snob... I understand you much better now. lol Walden has a journal: The International Journal of Applied Management and Technology...... maybe you should consider submitting some of your engineering work to it. Or perhaps, applying to teach in Walden's engineering program.

Respondants October 11, 2007 at 12:17 p.m.

Thanks Dr. B. I will check some of those out. As for teaching, I have no desire to teach. I have full interest in Walden since they switched over to the non-profit sector. I am considering going there for another PhD to compare the curriculum there, to what I had experienced (I already have two PhD's, and one is not from a tier 1). If I do it, I can also watch how things change, meet graduates, and compare the subjects I described above. I don't know if I will do it, but the for-profit model of education has always been a topic of interest to me. Having a school go from for to non, well now that’s a research proposal. Thanks Dr. B.

PS - I have taken courses at Phoenix, Capella, Nova, and NCU in PhD to compare them (about a years worth of each). The Phoenix, Capella, and Nova were not very good at all. They might have been BS or MS level if that. NCU however, was pretty good in some areas.

Respondants October 11, 2007 at 3:45 p.m.

I never said I was going to go all the way through. I just said I wanted to go take some courses. Tuition exchange is a great thing and most of those schools will actually participate (well, they gave like 90% off tuition but employer covered other 10%). I have been gathering data on the for-profits for some time now. ITT and UoP are the driving forces on that (I can't stand the advertising they do, and I know people who have taught at those places who say they are very unethical).

And as for PhDs, the only real hard part is the dissertation. Once you've done one though, you know what to expect and learn how the game is played. You just have to find a good advisor and your set!

Respondants October 11, 2007 at 4:58 p.m.

What is the website for the NCU blog? I am familiar with RMU (Robert Morris University in Pittsburgh)? They have the Doctor of Science program in Information Systems and Communications (the interdisciplinary program). The guy who started that wrote tons of papers about it and just won a huge award for being educator of the year for the entire world. It has been very successful in lowering attrition rate and allowing the students to keep jobs. I think it’s successful though because they take in highly successful people to begin with, so of course the output is successful. I'm not saying its bad though; I met a few graduates from it that benefited greatly. I don't believe they do a dissertation there though, they have a choice of dissertation or field project (which I suppose the field projects, from the ones I read, are the same as a dissertation except it’s not purely theoretical, but now how many dissertations are these days?)

Sorry, I know RMU because I work a lot with CMU. I thought about the RMU program also and actually visited it. I would love to do it, but it’s very tightly guarded, classes are locked in, the work load is intense and cannot be modified, and it’s expensive (like $75K now). I don't think that program qualifies under tuition exchange either. You have me thinking about the program again though. The faculty on that board publishes in so many different areas, it would really open up new worlds.

At Walden, I would do a PhD in General Psych. Even though I work in research for Science, its Cognitive Science and I know a lot about Psych. It also pushes me outside of my comfort zone, forcing me to really evaluate the rigor of the program (since I cannot fairly evaluate an engineering program because that’s all I have done).

Respondants October 11, 2007 at 5:32 p.m.

I disagree on the non-research focus for D.Sc. The D.Sc is equivalent to a PhD and is considered a research degree also. Its more focused on application than theory, but research non-the-less.

Good luck on that and I will check out the other blog.

Respondants October 11, 2007 at 7:47 p.m.

Yes. But my final argument on the Sc.D (or D.Sc if you don't like latin), is that the requirements for each are exactly the same. Look at MIT for any Sc.D offered. You will notice they tell you that you are able to choose Doctor of Science, OR Doctor of Philosophy. They are both research degrees and equivalent now. I did respond on the other blog. Thanks for pointing me there (I forgot I had been on there).

DWW October 12, 2007 at 3:24 p.m.

Dr. B, when you said they did absolutely nothing but school , are you saying that they did not have a job, or they were so consumed with work and school that they did not have much time for anything else?

DWW October 12, 2007 at 9:51 p.m.

You said...........

"Including the dissertation.... taking two courses per quarter... the Ph.D. in the School of Management could take you (realistically) 3-5 years. I've known a few to do it in short of 3.... but they did absolutely nothing else but school work."

The Heck October 16, 2007 at 4:25 p.m.

What the heck is Walden? Where did this school come from anyways? It just kind of appeared. This isn't really a school right? Its more of a professional training institute?

Dr. B October 17, 2007 at 2:47 a.m.

The Heck.... um.... Walden University has been conferring doctoral degrees for nearly 38 years. Fully accredited. You can't just "appear" after almost 38 successful years.

DWW October 17, 2007 at 3:49 a.m.

Thanks Dr.B, I look forward to it.

Dr. B October 17, 2007 at 8:25 p.m.

The Heck.... actually... I was admitted into 4 of 5 traditional programs I applied to. Plus... I recently got accepted to a master's program in higher education leadership... both at University of Nebraska and Mississippi College. Mississippi College's business programs are accredited by the same body as UoP.

Please do your research first..... it doesn't look too good on your part to ridicule people for their hard work and you not do your research first.

Dr. B? October 17, 2007 at 8:56 p.m.

Heck..... what are you talking about? i guess ignorance is bliss.

Dr. B October 18, 2007 at 1:22 p.m.

You're so smart.... find the info yourself. Trust me... the people who matter most know about the school.

The Heck October 18, 2007 at 4:48 p.m.

God is not scientific, therefore, your argument has no relevance and cannot be proven. All for profits believe in God, only they call it shareholder. You should be ashamed of yourself trying to push God on people and not respecting my opinions.

The Heck October 18, 2007 at 6:02 p.m.

This is way off topic. Separation of church and state. We'll stick to that. There is another posting on the UoP part of this website. "Degree" put up a list that s/he got from some website. Those items pretty much sum of what I think too. Is education bad? No. I don't really judge people if they have a UoP degree if they have a good background. For entry level, I won't consider them if they have no experience. My dislike comes from the deceit in the recruiting practice that has come along and shown up in many articles and TV shows now about UoP and other for-profits. The Leroy S on another blog in Capella is pretty good at explaining stuff, Dr. B, Respondants, and Just Wondering... all have some good points.

The Heck October 18, 2007 at 7:24 p.m.

Yes I agree. I think the schools should be open though. I have a lot of feelings about for profit. It bugs me they make money on people who truely want to make a better future for themselves. The heavy advertising makes them think it will happen. As in the post above, Pharamcy companies do the same. Yet they still disclose side effects, but advertising wins out. I don't like it.

The Heck October 19, 2007 at 11:55 a.m.

Well show me some proof. This site isn't right, it also says Capella is not for profit, which is a lie.

Btw October 19, 2007 at 12:47 p.m.

Capella didn't go public until 2006. I have contacted the site owners so that they can upgrade this.

The Heck October 19, 2007 at 2:08 p.m.

I never said I was MIT.

And just because its not publically traded does not mean its not-for-profit.

Dr. B October 19, 2007 at 4:27 p.m.

it amazes me how people get on here and make ignorant and extremely baseless comments.

what for-profit institution do you know offers the amount of student research, faculty research, fellowship and scholarship funding (federal and private) that walden does? some of these awards have topped $25,000... individually. walden funds student research. walden funds faculty research. student funds are merit and/or need based.walden now hosts 4 peer reviewed journals. we're all about social research.

you know nothing of which you speak.

you need to check your info.

Leroy S. October 19, 2007 at 5:03 p.m.

Dr. B, just because the school is under a non-profit doesn't mean the subsidiary is non-profit. Drexel University is non-profit, but it has an online school "Drexel University Online" that is a wholly owned subsidiary called Drexel e-Learning Inc.

http://www.drexel.edu/univrel/drexelink/...

So Walden is not necessarily a non-profit school just because its parent is. However, it makes them more appealing in my mind because of this and I hope they will become non-profit as well if the reputation leads as you stated previously.

Leroy S. October 19, 2007 at 8:26 p.m.

There probably are some if I did some research. I just pointed out that just because the parent company is non-profit, it doesn't mean the child company is too. Walden University is still listed as a FOR-PROFIT institution according to HLC.

ht tp://www.ncahlc.org/index.php?option=com_directory&Itemid=192&Action=ShowBasic&instid=1574

Updated on 10/19/1007. Legal status is Private FP.

As for Laureate Corporation, they people that bought them are all for-profit too.

ht tp://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=91846&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1041789&highlight=

And the company that bought them is also for-profit.

ht tp://www.pillsburylaw.com/bv/bvisapi.dll/portal/ep/paPubDetail.do/pub/20077231714262/channelId/-8595/tabId/5/pageTypeId/9208

Please show me where Walden is now not-for-profit (this is not meant to sound sarcastic, I really can't locate anything that backs up your claim).

(Please note to follow the links, you have to condense the address I provided since the boards don't allow them. Remove the space between the ht and tp in the begining.

Dr. B October 19, 2007 at 11:02 p.m.

one more thing.... the reference you show has come from the laureate-inc website. but if you notice no news has been updated since the august transition. the university has gone through many changes since then..... qualitative.. not quantitative. students are still awaiting the rollover of the new student portals...etc. it has been put off since the summer..... because the transition has been rough.

Leroy S. October 20, 2007 at 2:09 a.m.

I provided you direct links to valid websites to prove that as of right now, they are for-profit. You are giving me "inside information" you cannot validate. And in order for a school to allow students to receive financial aid, they have to provide scholorships. All schools do this including ITT. They advertise they provide aid and research because they have to. Its no different than Phillip Morris offering "quit smoking" plans for free, because they have to (not because they want to). Once I see it has changed, I will believe you. But the website I provided in the first link for HCL was updated August 17. That is pretty recent.

Leroy S. October 20, 2007 at 8:57 p.m.

Not required, but if a certain percentage of students is recieving federal aid they are.

Respondants October 21, 2007 at 7:15 p.m.

Leroy S. is correct. Call the schools and ask. It would be difficult to locate a valid resource since not many people look to open or run colleges.

Leroy S. October 22, 2007 at 12:03 p.m.

Like Respondants said, call the school. What do I have to prove? I didn't go to one of these schools and I have nothing to lose or gain.

Oh My October 22, 2007 at 12:43 p.m.

this page is not only full of baseless, biased comments that push nothing more but academic snobbery, academic elitism, academic racism, and academic classism.

Brian Williams October 22, 2007 at 3:22 p.m.

I came across this website when I was looking for an online school to go to. I want to do my MBA online since I have a family and don't have to time to go to a standard college with a bunch of young kids. I haven't been in college since 1988 at Yale. I have noticed that many people are against the "for profit" Universities. I guess my question is for people who have attended online schools. Would you go to an MBA program in class if you had the option over an online school? I can go to a few different schools, but I thought online would be my best choice. Now I'm rethinking the model of "you get out what you put in". If online schools that are "for profit" are easier and I won't learn anything, I don't want to go that route. Is this the case everyone has run into, or is it a select few trying to throw off the business?

Respondants October 22, 2007 at 7:40 p.m.

Dr. B the philosopher... Brian, if you went to Yale and haven't been to college since 1988, I imagine you have a pretty solid background in whatever you do. Chances are, the school you go to is more a formality to have credentials than anything. Honestly, unless you are going outside your area of expertise to a Master program, you probably won't learn much if anything since you have experienced it. But if you’re worried, I pointed out before Penn State has an online program that is an MBA, and even Drexel is AACSB accredited. So despite its "for profit" status, it’s not bad by any means since it has to have standards to be AACSB accredited. All Drexel did is find a way for the University to make more money to reinvest. After investors are paid their share, the University has no choice but to reinvest the profits anyways. Pretty smart if you ask me.

Mike October 23, 2007 at 3:50 p.m.

I am interested in going to Walden but very hesistant because of the for Profit talk. I dont want my degree to be garbage. Can anyone enlighten me to not think this way

Respondants October 23, 2007 at 7:15 p.m.

Sorry Dr. B, I wont accept the first two articles since they are published by AOL, owned by Time Warner, who has a stake in online education. But also, the people who commented, were from FOR-PROFIT online institutions. The Sloan is a good point though. The fact that they have a journal dedicated to online quality education is a sign of the times changing. As for my twisted views, I am against For-Profits as I stated before. My idea of Drexel being for profit and being smart doesn't mean I like them. I just think it was a pretty slick way of raising some extra money for the University. Drexel is a for-profit that is AACSB accredited also. So they have to have some admissions standards for at least the MBA.

But as pointed out before, too many people compare For-Profits to Ivy's to say they are invalid. I'm not saying that, I just don't agree with their ethics.

Dr. B October 23, 2007 at 8:21 p.m.

I made a mistake and put Respondants name in the "your name" box.... it should have read Dr. B. Please excuse the error.

Dr. B October 24, 2007 at 2:46 a.m.

My word, old friend.... are you softening up on me? lol

IA Guy October 25, 2007 at 11:36 a.m.

Now I am a product of distance education, and I am more useful in my career because of it. I will also state that there are good for-profit online schools, and there are bad for-profit online schools. I will also contend that there are good traditional brick and mortar, and not so good brick and mortar. The issue I have is the retards who lump all distance learning into one pull, then stereotype against it, then use the for-profit argument in order to back it up.

The bottom line is that all schools are for profit; the only difference is that, either the profits are disbursed to share holders, or they are disbursed in other ways back into the school. For you to better get an idea of how here is a good article about money, and the University of Maryland System, and how some of the numbers play into it.

http://www.examiner.com/a-940891~Living_...

The funny thing I see on these forums, is people defending their obviously biased stances on very little research based substance. Which is ironic since them seem to consider them the “academic elite”, which makes me think that they are the dumbest smart people out there.

If you look at the big picture, the for-profits, who are more accountable to their financial more so then any non-profit colleges. If any of them are publicly traded then they are even more so accountable due to Sarbanes-Oxley requirements, and they must also innovate their technology, and lean out their processes. They must also do this, keeping tuition in reach of more students, because if they don’t they loose consumers.

All of the “academic elite” are watching what these for-profits are doing, and are now realizing that they better get on the band wagon in order to keep their consumers as well. So for all of you “academic elite”, any one who has any street business experience can see this a mile away.

Now this argument is based solely on the comments made by the stereotype’s, regarding for-profit status, I am not including academic quality in the is argument, as based on my research its too early to tell, since total online degree holders need time in order to contribute completely into the academic community.

IA Guy October 25, 2007 at 7:02 p.m.

Respondants,

Its obvious that no resource will satisfy your opinion, please re-read my comment

“The issue I have is the retards who lump all distance learning into one pool, then stereotype against it, then use the for-profit argument in order to back it up.”

I then only highlight the business fact that for-profit universities contribute to the education community, in a certain way. If you re-re- read my post you will also notice that I said I am a product of Distance Education at no time did I say I support for-Profit 100%

I do not care if you have a PhD from MIT, I do not care if you work in Arlington, I worked there as well. My opinion is based on business economics and facts; do you even know what SOX is? But you are sure quick to comment on it. I don’t comment on the Photon Torpedoes that you build.

As I have said in the past you must be one of those stupid smart guys. You could be locked away in a room, and invent space ships, but you walk around your wedge at the P-Gon with your shoelace untied.

Law/Geek October 26, 2007 at 3:40 a.m.

Outside of the very highest ends of the academic and professional elites, where anyone gets their degree matters far, far less than people think. And even among those elites, family connections and wealth matter far more than your school.

I overpaid, big-time, for my law degree. I wanted to go to a top-tier "name" school - and I did - because I thought it would matter. Maybe it would have, were I one of the top five-percent elite, by family, wealth, or academic standing. But, I was just a "top-third of my class" lamer, so the name of my school hardly mattered at all, beyond a brief and meaningless conversation point in the interviews, once I hit the pavement. The only value in my degree was the education, and I could have found a largely comparable education far more cheaply many places elsewhere, and followed it with the same real-world education (the one that matters) that I got after completing my expensive "name" degree.

The law career sucked (it's horrible work, and virtually every former classmate I run into asks me how I escaped). So I've spent the last ten years successfully re-tooling myself in the software industry, and now need the education that comes with a Masters in Software Engineering. I'm sure there are qualitative differences between programs, but the honest truth is that core engineering principles (like the core of any discipline) are commonly known, and will be taught more or less the same general way no matter where I get the education. How I apply those core principles on the job is what will actually matter to my career path. So why not get the degree online, so I can fit the studies around my job? Frankly, trying to get to a bricks'n'mortar classroom on a regular basis would be a thorough pain, and decrease my chances of completing the degree.

Those obsessing on the reputation of online vs. offline degrees are betraying their naivete of how the world actually works. Sorry kids, but it's true.

Respondants October 26, 2007 at 9:59 p.m.

Law/Geek, again, its not about online versus offline in many arguments. Its about for-profit versus not-for-profit. And school names do matter. If your in software, you should know that.

Respondants October 27, 2007 at 3:18 p.m.

At a PhD level, school name matters a lot. In your field, you need to choose the school with the best reputation because that is the school that is respected in the field. This is whole heartedly true in acadmics and R&D.

Dr. B October 29, 2007 at 10:57 p.m.

Thank you for your opinion.

Walden already has graduates who are well respected practitioners, publishers, and authors. The university also has graduates who are well respected researchers, faculty, administrators and academic deans at well respected traditional institutions. To add, Walden's well respected and highly regarded faculty members are working closely one-on-one to mentor doctoral students and are also helping to pave a way for graduates to get tenured track positions at these institutions...... that's why they push for all ph.d. student to publish, present, and publish some more.

you have your experiences... i have mine. the university also has real data to prove this.

Dr. B October 30, 2007 at 12:26 p.m.

Point well made, IA Guy! If you look at some of my previous posts, you'll see that we share the same sentiments.

IA Guy October 30, 2007 at 2:23 p.m.

Dr. B your the only guy on here I agree with. The hardcore academic elites that are on here just dont get it. If I need the services of a PhD, I will hire one to work for me, not the other way around.

IA Guy October 30, 2007 at 5:05 p.m.

Me Too,

Quote "The point of a PhD is to sacrifice and give 100% of your attention to the subject you are studying."

That’s funny I'm pretty sure I devote 100% of my day to my field of study, everyday.

Quote "No, your degree is not a "doctorate" level degree! Its worthless and I will never put you on the same level as myself"

Yes you are correct; I would never put you at the same level as myself. Apparently you are under the impression that you are somehow special, which in fact is not the case. Once again you feel as though the word revolves around a PhD, and their “ Papers”, when in fact, the world does not.

Quote “Posed with the question of Medical Doctors, would you want an MD from an online school that worked and had a family throughout med school performing surgery on you?”

Again I will restate that the entire purpose of the online degree is to help people who are already professionals in their field advance further, are you retarded or something? What don’t you elites understand? Is this the part where you prove that you can build a rocket ship, but can’t boil water properly?

You academics are like engineer's, who hate the term “ Network Engineer” because they don’t have a P.E license. Get over it, you can whine all day, consumer demand wins at the end of the day.

Me Too October 30, 2007 at 5:50 p.m.

It still defeats the purpose of a Phd. A Phd signifies you have contributed a significant piece to a body of knowledge. And a Phd is held at a higher standard than an MD. An MD has only five stripes of acadmic excellence because of lack of dissertation. Phd is six stripes. Am I threatened? Yes. I do not think these Phds deserve the name they have. They should be called "lite Phd" just like Phoenix has a "lite MBA". Academics and Industry are seperate. Schools like MIT, CMU, and a few others who integrate the two, are the most successful. Yet, you will see, that the real Phds still maintain the acadmics, and do not let "Phd practitioners" in to teach.

Me Too October 30, 2007 at 6:23 p.m.

Chances are your book came from a theory written by an acadmic. Hands on does have some area in acadmics, but not in a tenure research position. Thats not theoretical and will only hold for a short time. Write one on the cognitive aspects of security, then your talking.

IA Guy October 30, 2007 at 6:37 p.m.

Interestingly that you put it that way, May I inquire as to your field of study? Because I assure you, in my field, a very large amount of "Theory" does begin in acadamia. Acadamia is not the sole source of all knowledge.

Respondants October 30, 2007 at 7:28 p.m.

I work in Cognitive Science in the direct field of AI, specifically now emotional intelligence and Affective Computing (yes affective and not effective).

Dr. B October 30, 2007 at 8:13 p.m.

This is just an example of how Walden works: the university has memberships with American Society of Public Administration and maintains students' membership at no cost to the student. Ph.D. residencies for PPA doctoral students are also held in conjunction with ASPA conference proceedings.

The College of Graduate Management and Technology is affiliated with the Society of Human Resource Management. Graduate business students participate and present research at professional conferences as well.

Many Psychology Ph.D. students and alumni are members of APA and present research at annual conferences.

College of Education: Walden has affiliations and is endorsed by Association of Washington School Principals, California County Superintendents Educational Services Association, Education Service Center, Region 2 (ESC-2) in Corpus Christi, Texas, Florida Association of School Administrators, New Jersey Association of School Administrators, New York City Elementary School Principals Association, New York City Middle School Principal Association, SERRC—Alaska’s Educational Resource Center

Public Health: Walden is affiliated with APHA and pays for students to have membership for one year. Public health residencies are also held in conjunction with APHA Conference proceedings.

Engineering: Walden is affiliated with Boeing, Hewlett-Packard, Lockheed Martin, Motorola, and Raytheon.

All students in the College of Management and Technology are affiliated with the Gartner Group, gives masters and doctoral students access to leading research from one of the country’s foremost technology research and consulting firms. Gartner research is regularly read by senior executives in large corporations, government agencies, and technology companies, as well as the investment community.

Dr. B October 31, 2007 at 1:37 a.m.

Having APA is a good move, but not very necessary. Accreditation does not guarantee licensure. Most psychology graduates are still able to go on and practice in their state after passing state exams. There is a big issue in some states (GA) because their legislation won't allow students from non APA accredited schools sit for exams... but there are loopholes around that too and many still go on to practice. But I read an article on yesterday on how the APA's membership is dropping drastically.... and they're now beginning to look at alternative ways to train doctorally trained faculty.

Upon entering their program, Walden psychology students fully understand the obstacles they may face with licensure. Now..... Fielding Graduate University is the only APA accredited distance institution. And they had to sue for that.

If you look at Walden's clinical psychology program, you will find that the curricula in many ways exceeds what the APA mandates. However, gaining accreditation through this body will carry many stipulations that go against the university's mission of broad access to education. Just like Fielding, students will have to go through lengthy interview processes and tuition costs will skyrocket. There will be little funding for scholarships, fellowships, and faculty funding.

The accreditations that Walden sees as a necessary component to its curricula is public health (in self study), mental health counseling (in self study), and nursing (already acquired). Business, psychology, and social sciences are not exactly necessary because stipulations on licensing in all states is not required at this point in time.

As for business accreditation, Walden does not offer BBA degrees, per se. The university produces a completion bachelor of science in business, MBAs in specialized fields, and doctorates in applied management and decision science.... .none of these degrees are BBA or BA affiliated, which is what the AACSB accredits. The MBA was ranked in the top 10 distance learning programs in the nation and is linked to an international network of 58 traditional universities...... solid world-wide business schools. There is really no need there. The doctorate is in Applied Management and Decision Sciences.... not Business Administration. It allows for a broader, and more socially grounded focus.

Education: NCATE, again is not necessary because there is no bachelors program in education. Until recently, Walden's graduate programs in education were for teachers who were already practicing. A couple of months ago, Walden launched a new MAT program that allows aspiring teachers to gain licensure in MN.... this is transferrable throughout the nation.

Respondants October 31, 2007 at 12:53 p.m.

ABET is a highly necessary accreditation for Engineering and Information Technology. Schools without it, are seen as second class.

Nursing they do have accredited.

APA is extremely important. If a Phd program does not have it, its not worth it. And driving up the cost? Lets compare here quickly:

Walden Psyc 159 credits at $420 per credit - TOTAL $66,780 (NOT APA Accredited)

University of Pittsburgh Psyc 72 credits at $604 per credit - TOTAL $43,488 (APA Accredited, plus if you pay for semester, it costs less)

Penn State University Psyc 72 credits at $614 per credit - TOTAL $44208 (APA Accredited, plus they state 100% of their Phd students get 100% tuition remission)

Carlow University (Pittsburgh) Psy.D 78 credits at $660 per credit - TOTAL $51480 (Not APA Accredited, but in application for it, has not yet graduated first students, upon accreditation, tuition will not change as stated in their bylaws because they are charging for the accreditation rate already so graduating students have retro accreditation).

So they don't want to pass the amount to their students? Carlow is extremely well known and is expensive, for working adults, is accredited, and cost much less! Accreditation will cost Walden money, thats why they don't do it.

And their MBA isn't even accredited by ACBSP, let alone AACSB.

Accreditation is what sets apart schools. Walden has no admissions criteria, which again, means many accrediting bodies will not consider them.

IA Guy October 31, 2007 at 3:10 p.m.

I would also like to add that ABET, is only relevant in the real world if you want a PE license. You stated that:

“ABET is a highly necessary accreditation for Engineering and Information Technology. Schools without it, are seen as second class.”

I agree with you 100% that a degree that is for Professional Engineering should have ABET accreditation, however I disagree with your statement in regards to Information Technology

Respondants October 31, 2007 at 3:36 p.m.

Also, please point out where Walden's "MBA was ranked in the top 10 distance learning programs in the nation and is linked to an international network of 58 traditional universities...... solid world-wide business schools".

Make sure this is not saying the graduated more people or graduated more under-represented population also, because this does not reflect quality or rank.

Dr. B October 31, 2007 at 3:57 p.m.

check US News and Reports

Respondants October 31, 2007 at 4:03 p.m.

What I was saying about ranking is that US News has reports on how many people a school graduates, but they are not qualitative data rankings. The Walden link you provided is from all of their own schools and I don't see any non-profit traditional schools.

Discrimination is not the case. The position is for a 3 year grant with no possibilities of extension. The guy wanted to try to get into a University environment. He was denied and a PhD CMU graduate was hired who had about 5 years of research experience in a post-doc position. It is not discrimination if you don't hire based on school, this is reality and its how people are usually hired. There is a reason MIT, CMU, Harvard, etc. have a huge career placement advantage, they are the best schools and the best students come out of them.

Respondants October 31, 2007 at 5:53 p.m.

I simply asked you for data to back up the claim about Walden being a "top MBA program". And the CMU graduate had more research experience and thats what was wanted. While the NCU graduate was good, he would have been turned down regardless simply due to the degree. The age, again, was not a factor because it was a three year program and he knew that. He told us specifically he wanted to work at the research center to be affiliated with the top schools because his NCU Phd is not taken seriously in acadmics. And being familiar with international institutions depends on the institute. If its academics, yes, I work with China, Japan, UK, Nigeria, and Banglesh.

I am not speaking against Walden either, I am asking you to compare the quality of Walden without accreditation to a school with accreditation. Accreditation at professional levels indicates quality, otherwise they can't be accredited. That is my proof ABET and AACSB schools are quality. I want to see how Walden is better than these schools and prove that they want the bottom line, to make more money. So why go after accreditation that cost them more to increase the perception of the organization if they are already making money?

Respondants October 31, 2007 at 7:31 p.m.

I am no longer doing the research because the funding was not approved. Ironically, Walden's parent company at one time had solicited proposals to fund a study on the two and intended to use the study to modify their schools if necessary. I don't know what came out of that.

But I have two arguments more for you. First, you say that experience matters and most Walden students have plenty of experience. So if they have experience, why go back to school? Traditional schools teach so students can enter the industry with knowledge. Your saying the opposite of what Walden does. So why even go to Walden if you have the experience?

Second, I have made this argument before to many people and only a few have answered it with good reason. The students entering Walden are already successful by career standards. So the school isn't outputting successful students, just students who were already successful and used the name. Its easy to have a program that looks successful if your intake is good. But Walden also has open admissions, so what happens to the students who don't make it? I can say Walden isn't known for passing students for sake of profit like Capella, Phoenix, and ITT though. But take into consideration those schools.

Respondants October 31, 2007 at 8:36 p.m.

Good enough. I think most student return to school with either the desire to learn something new, or just to further their career with a degree (could be both). Sometimes, its useless to return to school for a degree unless its for credentials. For example, if I wanted a job that required a BS in Electrical Engineering, I would have to go back and get that. But I know Phd level EE work even though I have never had the formal training. I think Phoenix is used for this sometimes.

As for Walden, I am torn on them specifically because I have seen some good output, but its the for-profit status that still bugs me. There is too much a chance when an educational institution goes on the public market they will try to simply maximize profit and forget out its goal. This is the case with many organizations in business, like Sears. They started with the idea of selling high quality items and taking care of customers. But the market changes and they need to combat Walmart and others. Then they start to sell extended warranties and realize they can maximize profit. Then they forget about customers. Prices aren't competitive and quality is decreasing. We can thank the Walmart motto for that.

Anyways, off the tangent. If Walden offers residencies, chances are they spend as much time in class as a traditional school. The idea of distance learning purely online, I am totally against at the MS and Phd level. I am volunteering to do accreditation for a local college to see the process and find the areas in ABET that are easy to cover up. ABET is looking to tighten restrictions and make their name higher quality. This is why I like professional accreditations. It might not mean a student coming out is high quality, but the barriers set up make it more unlikely than those without.

He he November 1, 2007 at 6:51 p.m.

Walden students really think they are doctors when they graduate with a Phd. Hehe! I would never call you doctor or acknowledge any of your so called "accomplishments". Too bad schools like Arizona State don't just take tuition and pass you to make more money.

Losers!

Skyy November 2, 2007 at 12:41 a.m.

These "losers" have quite an impressive resume'!

Skyy November 2, 2007 at 1:18 a.m.

I know they are impressive..I was just humoring He he. For all of these Walden graduates to be so called "losers" they have certainly compiled a list of accomplishments! Next thing these people will be saying are those are "fake accomplishments" to go along with the "fake degrees!" Unless they have actually taken an online course or obtained an online degree their opinions are "null and void" anyway!

By the way I have my Master's in Education from Walden and it DEFINITELY has paid off for me! :)

Panem et Circanses November 2, 2007 at 1:11 p.m.

Mr./Ms. "He he" : Completed a Walden Ph.D. with solid incoming qualifications including an MBA with a 3.85 gradepoint, full accreditation, 135 credits of coursework (independent study and in 250 hours of residency as well as online, the latter of which typically had 40+ deliverables per 12-week course), a 50% attrition rate, professors with consistently long careers at more conventional universities, over a year and dozens of iterations and two oral defenses of a 182-page dissertation with 200 scholarly references held to high academic and APA-format standards that ultimately compared favorably to others in the international database. Why is this not worth "doctor" to you?

Dr. B November 2, 2007 at 1:59 p.m.

The time i spend on here is not spent defending anything that I did... but rather giving some truth to your dumb ass remarks. My CV speaks for itself. And just to make sure I do my part, I fail dumb asses like you who take my courses.

Dr. B November 2, 2007 at 2:54 p.m.

well stated Panem..

Respondants November 2, 2007 at 3:36 p.m.

Man these pages have a tendency to either have nothing or everything. Anyways, Dr. B, I'm still waiting for you to show your claim about Walden being in the top 10 MBA programs in the US. I was just looking at some websites and didn't see them mentioned. I forgot about it until a buddy sent me this link:

http://www.forbes.com/home/careers/2007/...

Then I remembered about it.

Dr. B November 2, 2007 at 4:13 p.m.

Hi Respondants!

Point of clarification: top ten meant (largest) category sir/ma'am. Also I think you should go back and re-read certain posts..... I wrote top 10 distance learning mba programs.

All of the schools on the forbe's list are from your older research institutions. Plus, this is not a wholistic picture: look at the criteria.

1. 5-Yr total compensation after graduation, minus the sum of tuition and forgone compensation
2. M.B.A. profit divided by sum of tuition and forgone compensation
3. Total tuition for out-of-state students
4. 5-Yr figures before taxes and adjusted for time value of money.

"Our survey ranks schools based on return on investment--meaning compensation five years after graduation minus tuition and the forgone salary during school."

Clearly this is all about output (graduates), profit (tuition), and graduate salary (which could be a lie because people tend to do that in surveys)

This says nothing about quality of instruction or research but rather who quit working to go to school and who got a good paying job after graduation. These are all big name schools, which mean they could have been selected and not openly participatory. Where are the other schools? I do not see where all business schools were able to participate in the survey. This is clearly a purposive sample... which doesn't tell much of anything with this type of data. It's invalid.

Also, it's no secret that Forbes is a major partner with AACSB International.

I expected better of you, Respondants. Give me something that is not bias.

Dr. B November 2, 2007 at 4:23 p.m.

you have not proven where Walden graduates are not finding high pay jobs... or even have them upon entering the institution. my academic snobbery matches yours... so to keep saying that doesn't mean a thing to me. the same challenge you're placing on me.... you're failing at yourself.

Dr. B November 2, 2007 at 4:34 p.m.

ok.. maybe we're having a reading issue here..... i clarified my point a short while ago. go back and reread.... then go to usnews.com go to e-learning.. and pull up the ranking under largest..... students enrolled.

your evidentiary support proves nothing.... not a thing. the criteria screams bias. you're smart enough to know that... but as you said... you stick with your own kind. just know that i'm sticking with your kind too... but i'm not bias.

i'm not going to do your homework for you... or is this how it was done at mit? lol

Respondants November 2, 2007 at 4:40 p.m.

Sure, USA News says they enroll more people and graduate more, its not to say they are quality in any way. Again, its like the argument made that Walmart sells more than anyone, thus, Walmart is quality. There is a reason I can be bias with these schools, they are known well and highly respected. Take ANY Walden student graduate with a Phd (a lone Phd from them, no other doctorate level) and a Phd student from anyone on that list from the forbes link (again, a lone Phd from them, no other doctorate level). Put in any experience you want, I will bet on the non-Walden to get more interviews and offers based on the school name alone. Do we rely on our school name? Yes, because it is solid and we had to go through hell to get it. So we deserve to rely on it. Thats the network. Walden students do not have that luxery.

Respondants November 2, 2007 at 5:35 p.m.

Oh well. I still say MIT is more respected than Walden by name alone.

Respondants November 2, 2007 at 6:15 p.m.

All that matters is my world does care. And whether or not you think so, if I sent a resume into your company, the MIT name alone would get me looked at closer than others.

Look, I'm not caring about names of schools or anything. In my world, they are a huge deal, in yours, they are not. What I still want to see is data to back up Dr. B's claim about the Walden MBA being number 3 for online education. The topic gets side tracked and never answered. I have links to show Phoenix is the "top graduating MBA offering" for "under represented people", but that in no way implies quality. I know the Walden study shows the same thing, which I'm trying to show, its not one of the top three MBA programs.

And is MIT a better school? In reality, that stupid old saying "you get in what you put out" is true. I graduated with people who really live off of the MIT name. Going from job to job not producing because they want to supervise instead of work since MIT is better than all else. Yes, that is bad. I have seriously never met an ACADEMICALLY stupid person at MIT in the Phd programs. But some of them lack human interaction (and the ironic part is that is what they are studying HCID). To be truthful, working as an engineer and scientist for quite some time doesn't exactly do wonders for my social life either. But the name of MIT, CMU, Harvard, etc carry weight for a reason. These people are ACADEMICALLY ELITE. Does academics always translate to industry? We all know the answer to that.

So again Dr. B, I am looking at Walden objectively, hoping they go non-profit because they have a good outline setup that far outweighs UoP and Capella (who claim to be the competitors but suck). My bias comes in when I see the profit word.

Back to the point, I would still like to see where you find the claim Walden is number 3.

Respondants November 2, 2007 at 6:50 p.m.

Okay, I did misquote that, but you did say "The MBA was ranked in the top 10 distance learning programs in the nation and is linked to an international network of 58 traditional universities...... solid world-wide business schools".

I went to your source, still can't find anything on Walden being in the top 10 for quality.

Respondants November 2, 2007 at 8:24 p.m.

Well, being the top 10 in graduation rates is nothing to be proud of, it just means you take in more people and pass more people.

Respondants November 3, 2007 at 2:45 p.m.

You must shop at Walmart since they sell the most, they sell the best quality too.

Dr. B November 3, 2007 at 8:12 p.m.

Respondants... I hope you go back and truly read that article you posted against Walden University of MN. It's preface reads:

From: Behavior and Social Issues, Fall/Winter 1992, Vol. 2, Number 2, pages 145-154.
Copyright by the Cambridge Center for Behavioral Studies
Presented on this Web site with the permission of Dr. Bruce A. Thyer; The work that follows is fictional, but the principles must be considered - what is portrayed here is certainly feasible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Walden "U": First Report of a Behaviorally-Based College

Dr. B November 5, 2007 at 4:17 a.m.

use your elite education...... write the proposal.. get it funded... do the investigation.... present your UNBIASED findings.

Respondants November 7, 2007 at 3:18 a.m.

Well I said it before I don't like for-profits, but I do believe if Dr. B wrote a dissertation, s/he does deserve recognition as a doctor for a significant contribution to the field of study. Also, its likely heavy APA documented if its in a public database, which proves a bit more of the impact of the study (not saying APA is point of heavy impact, but if its in a public database it is and it has to be APA or another style to be so).

Dr. B November 7, 2007 at 7:31 p.m.

um... you cannot invest in Walden.

Respondants November 7, 2007 at 10:17 p.m.

He he you are not helping your case by posting blindly. At very least find online stories from people who went here or evaluated it. Even at that it is unlikely a scholarly resource, but at least it is a start.

He he November 8, 2007 at 12:55 p.m.

I just wanted everyone to know that the reason I post such negative comments is becuase this website allows me to post with any name I choose. This allows me to appear as though my comments are important, when in reality is masks the fact that I paid large sums of money, by going to a B&M school, and I still cant find a job. Deep down I am really just jelous becuase you people are getting experiance and education on your resume, and it is locking out people like me from walking into a high paying job strait out of the classroom as though I am special.

He he November 8, 2007 at 1:44 p.m.

I didn't go to a fancy liberal arts college. I went to a state college and found a job pretty quick. Now I look at people who get their degrees from the FOR PROFITS and laugh at them for buying their degree. I never said ONLINE DEGREES are bad you moron. I said for-profit schools are bad. Learn to read.

He he November 8, 2007 at 4:07 p.m.

Whatever Respondants. I'm sure someone with an MIT degree would be browsing these boards anyways. If so, I think so much less of MIT. Why would an MIT person even try to argue with someone from one of these FOR-PROFIT schools? It doesn't make sense. All of these people from the FOR-PROFITS are losers who couldn't make it anywhere else, so they come here. Then they try to BS with it fitting into their life style and already have experience BLAH BLAH BLAH. There is a reason Universities do not offer classes towards adults at the BS of Phd level, its not for them and they don't deserve the degree unless they do it right (not half way like the FOR-PROFITS make it).

Your all losers.

ATTENTION November 8, 2007 at 5:12 p.m.

ATTENTION, Dr. B is a fake! He stated in one of his first posts that "My dissertation chair has an earned Ph.D. from Harvard and he is on faculty there as well. I am also his Graduate TA, which has given me a ton of teaching experience online! Faculty Mentoring… rigor?" meaning he goes to Walden! That's a degree mill and nobody who graduates from there is a real doctor!

ATTENTION November 8, 2007 at 7:56 p.m.

I am just letting everyone know you went to Walden so your not a real doctor since they are a diploma mill! You really shouldn't use Dr as a title unless you have earned it. And I have no need to go through a college's faculty list since they have valid degrees and Walden is not a real University or College. They are a Walmart that sells education diplomas.

Dr. B November 9, 2007 at 8:15 p.m.

November Alumni Accolades

ponder.waldenu.edu/c/11468_24270.htm

Respondants November 9, 2007 at 9:01 p.m.

To argue two points and then add in something:

1) Latin Trade is a magazine for Latin America. It has no real bearings on the rates either because it did not explain its rating system other than how many people responded. It didn't really say who responded either. If its alumni, sure they will say it was a good education.

2) The accolades are a good indication of how a school is doing. This is a double edged sword for everyone. As many people as Walden graduates every year, I would hope some are doing thing in their field. The same holds true for Penn State. Sure tons of their alumni do great things, but look at how many they graduate. For a school like UoP though, showing not much for as many as they graduate, thats when it looks really bad.

Add comment - I like Walden and what they stand for. I am worried they will fall into the trap of heavy advertising and making a quick buck. Devry fell into this and now their name no longer holds value like it used to. Same thing with ITT. I also like NCU, but I think they may be headed down that path also. Since Walden is now private, I think they are one step closer.

Another website to check out is the Chronicle forums to see what people think, and phinished.org.

Respondants November 10, 2007 at 1:12 p.m.

That’s another measure I don't like, salary after the degree. Executive MBA's tend to be high ranking people who just need a piece of paper for credentials. So yes, they will have high salary after the degree since they had high salary before the degree.

I think one of the best measures (although this is a cliché) is to ask simply if the person is happy with their life after the degree, and if the degree contributed to any changes (positive/negative) post graduation. I have a friend who spent over $75K at on his Phd from a school I have never heard of. He didn't change jobs afterwards nor got a pay increase. Sure he's called Dr. now, but I figured he doesn't use his degree for anything, so he wasted $75K. But if you ask him, he will tell you it is the best thing he ever did. He learned to think, organize his thoughts, write, research, and truly problem solve (not just medicate symptoms). I would have to agree. Plus there are many new opportunities open once you are finished (and many more that close as you should know since you are over qualified).

All of my arguments over schools have nothing to do with quality really. What I fear is for-profits taking in and passing anybody who will pay simply to meet Wall Street expectations. This causes a saturation of degrees and makes other institutions graduates less appealing overall because of it (ie MBA from Phoenix). Luckily, the schools that do this are known for it by now. It happened to Phoenix, ITT, and Devry (although Devry is pulling out again of heavy advertising due to bad publicity and reputation it has received in the last five years). Like I said before, Walden is one step ahead because they are now private. They also don't fully stock up on adjuncts as I have learned recently (like a few hours ago at a conference) they are planning to pull off reliance on adjuncts and hire more full time professors, hopefully offer tenure, and go after accreditations. I also did find out they want to go non-profit and offer their parent company and its partners courses online at a discounted rate that would be a for-profit counterpart (like Drexel). All of this came from a man I met who is working as a consultant for Walden’s parents company (although I cannot confirm he was, he knew a lot about them and is well respected).

Respondants November 10, 2007 at 3:02 p.m.

Walden requires residencies which I personally feel are wonderful alternatives to traditional doctorates. I do not think all online (with no residencies) are a valid alternative. Even though I feel residencies are alternatives, it depends on the subject. For example, I don't think its a good alternative for Psychology because that requires too mcuh interaction with people after graduation, but its also not my field, so I don't know much about it. I do know engineering and mathematics would not be good alternatives at all since they are very theoretical and likely cannot be learned by distance.

As for the MBA rating criteria, schools serve different purposes. I don't think its fair to rate an executive MBA against a traditional MBA (AACSB versus ACBSP) because they have different missions. AACSB is more for leaders who don't have to have any experience. The purpose is that they have not been exposed to business, which is sometimes a good thing becuase they are not bias. AACSP is for executives who wish to learn new techniques for leading. AACSB is said to be the gold standard because the students tend to take on more leadership positions and usually get their degree with AACSB early in a career and carry it on.

My opposition to schools comes at the for profit stage and the more I research, the more I strongly dislike the publically traded schools. These schools recruit and do not put money back into the education. I visited over 30 ITT Tech schools. Their "library" had book on Windows 95 for their software people. Computer labs were horrible, network issues, and unqualified faculty taught there (people with AS teaching). Phoenix was similar for the campuses I visited. I understand the schools have a "virtual library", but thats not an alternative for a school that claims a ground campus. Capella was a bit more organized, but nevertheless, the students they had in their Phd program were not very intelligent at all. I read over some of their work, and its amazing how they even got an MS. My fear in these schools really boils down to acadmic snobbery and fear I have. I don't want Phds from those schools being seen as my equal colleauges. Phoenix dissertations are horrible, students in the Phd I have met are dumb, and ITT's MBA is no different, along with Capella's Phd. BUT, I have met some who are intelligent, so I am not saying in any way they are bad. But majority rules. If you are hiring for a position, you know 1/100 students from UoP are good, your probably not going to waste time interviewing them because the chances of getting a good one are too small.

These thoughts come from an acadmic who goes to conferences and drinks. From drinking, thinking and talking ensue. They aren't normal conversations either, we fight over what had more of an impact on mathematics and what data structures are the most efficient, what students should be taught, and what writings styles are the best (ah, the life of nerds).

Mystery November 14, 2007 at 6:12 p.m.

Why are so many people against online education? Just embrace it, its the way of the future. Proprietary schools are also here to stay. They make money on education sure, but in order to make money, you have to provide a quality product. If these schools are so bad, they would go out of business. Think about KMart. Prices were high and selection was low. They are gone. This education would be the same way if the selection (or quality) is low because the prices are higher than other colleges. So obviously they provide higher quality.

Academic Snob (Dr. B) November 17, 2007 at 12:28 a.m.

He he et al....

I really don't have anything else to say OTHER THAN.............a little over 120 days ago I submitted a total of 10 articles for peer review......different peer reviewed journals, of course...... As of TODAY.....all 10 of my articles submitted for peer review have been ACCEPTED for publication. That is the highest form of scholarship available in the academy. To add, that is 100% progress! So all the negative things you have to say about Walden University mean nothing to me.

Be Blessed!

Dr. B December 4, 2007 at 5:31 p.m.

Clarify what you specifically mean by four tiers of research Leroy.

Dr. B December 4, 2007 at 10:37 p.m.

LEROY et al... I did some research and found a solid answer for your question.

According to the American Psychological Society... .there are 5 research tiers. librarians.aps.org/tier2004.html

To answer your Question: Walden University has a Carnegie Foundation designation as being a Doctoral Research Intensive University since 2000. www.waldenu.edu/c/About/About_221.htmTha... would yield Walden University being a Tier 2 research university, which is where Most universities stand. www.carnegiefoundation.org/classificatio...

Of course... the classifications have changed recently but the criteria is the same. What happened to Research I, Research II, etc.? Has the Carnegie Foundation abandoned its traditional classification framework?

The Research I & II and Doctoral I & II categories of doctorate-granting institutions last appeared in the 1994 edition. The use of Roman numerals was discontinued to avoid the inference that the categories signify quality differences. The traditional classification framework has been updated and is now identified as the Basic Classification. Many of the category definitions and labels have changed with this revision.

Who are the classifications for? www.carnegiefoundation.org/about/sub.asp...

From its inception, the Carnegie Classification’s purpose has been to assist those conducting research on higher education. Researchers need a way to deal with the great diversity of colleges and universities in the United States, and classifications enable them to identify groups of roughly comparable institutions. The primary audience is the research community, including academic researchers and institutional research staff as well as other education analysts. By providing a set of distinct classifications, as well as a set of online tools for creating custom listings (combining categories within classifications, identifying institutions in similar categories across classifications, or filtering listings by selected criteria), researchers now have much greater analytic flexibility, allowing them to match classification tools to their analytic needs.

Hope this helps.

Dr. B

Real Dr. B December 7, 2007 at 3:08 p.m.

stuntman... well stated.

Dr. B December 10, 2007 at 9:04 p.m.

Hi Wairimu! Glad I could be of help. It makes little sense to to opine on these boards with little or no support to back up the claim.

Good luck in your studies!

Leroy S. December 12, 2007 at 12:21 a.m.

I don't think Walden can be Tier 2 either. Open enrollment is actually one reason. Another is the output and patent ability per year. Walden may have a good education, but to be put on tier 2 and being online, its not likely, at least not in the near future (eventually the online will be accepted). But Walden is a for profit entity also, this means they are not allowed to be ranked. I had to do some research on this. The link below provides some information on tiers.

http://media.www.thebatt.com/media/stora...

Leroy S. December 12, 2007 at 1:13 a.m.

Leroy S.....

I'm not sure what measurement criteria you used, but I clearly stated where my source came from. The source you cited is not reliable. The criteria I spoke of came from a reliable source and it was paired with Walden's Carnegie designation. There is proof of all of this.

I think you may be speaking of R1 and R2 type universities. I currently do not have any information on that right now.

Walden does its part in contributing to academe. Feel free to browse through the recent newsletter.

ponder.waldenu.edu/c/ponder.htm

ponder.waldenu.edu/c/11468_24430.htm

Dr. B December 12, 2007 at 3:28 p.m.

I read in the Chronicle today that Texas Tech was placed on probation by SACS for failing to show that its curriculum met college-level competencies. The federal government is putting new emphasis on student-learning outcomes, she said, and colleges must show what students are getting out of their classes. Somewhere along the line, they failed to demonstrate that.

Texas Tech offers a Ph.D. in Rhetoric and communications (online). This is very interesting.

Dr. B December 13, 2007 at 2:52 a.m.

Where can I find this criteria? Can you provide me with a link? I am interested.

Just Wondering... December 14, 2007 at 2:46 p.m.

It appears the real conversation is here versus "Capella" and "UoP."

Hello Leroy and Dr. B.

So, if you had to choose, which is better, Capella or Walden?

Just Wondering... December 14, 2007 at 6:51 p.m.

This is not my regular e-mail address (for obvious reasons on these boards) so label it clearly in the subject line, but I would like to ask you a couple of questions offline Dr. B.

scot1@jjcomp.com

kcw December 16, 2007 at 1:38 a.m.

I'm just curious, I'm sold on Walden but does anyone know of another PhD online that offers public policy?

Leroy S. December 18, 2007 at 12:50 a.m.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...

Dr. B December 18, 2007 at 2:09 a.m.

thanks for the post though. and i agree with you regarding the type of criteria that should be shown.... and not be ranked according to freshman retention.... which walden does not have.

i think that these rankings are not really true. meaning according to the washington post, jackson state university, my alma mater outranked princeton in the top 50 institutions in the country.

i think a neutral party such as chea should do a ranking. i would be willing to put more weight there.

i still can't find anything on r1 and r2 institutions.

Just a Guy December 19, 2007 at 5:43 a.m.

What potential students need to understand is that no one is calling schools like Kansas State, University of Oklahoma, Indiana State, University of Minnisota, etc.. sub-standard.

However, there are a large number of former students and professors that ARE calling Walden, Capella, NCU, and UoP a joke from an academic standpoint.

So as a potential student, you need to ask yourself the following question. Why would I want to spend my time/money on a program that so many others think is sub-standard at best and that many simply call a JOKE?

Do not waste your time and money on schools like Walden, Capella ot the other UoP clones. There are better/less expensive options in the state chartered universities.

JAG

Just a Guy December 20, 2007 at 7:49 a.m.

First of all, are you trying to say that you have to be associated with an academic institution to publish? ("you slam the door, lock it, and throw away the key so that these folks cannot get in to academics?") News flash you do not have to be associated with an academic institution to publish. And, as was pointed out earlier, Walden has been producing "doctorates" for 40 years. However, the publishing record of these graduates is virtually non-existant when compared to traditional PhD programs.

I have never been formally associated with any academic institution in a research capacity. I have taught for several B&M universities in an adjunct capacity. I have also taught in the graduate program for UoP and Nova.

I work for a government agency and have published in 7 peer reviewed academic journals. (I reiterate, YOU DON'T NEED TO WORK IN ACADEMIA TO SUCCESSFULLY PUBLISH.)

I am all for advances in academia including online programs. I think these programs serve a valuable funtion for working adults. However, these programs have to prove their value by the contributions of their graduates to each particular school of knowledge. For the number of graduates that Walden has produced on the PhD level, They have failed miserably. There are exceptions to this rule. However, arguing from extremes is the worst form of argument.

I am not even commenting on the academic rigor of bachelors or even masters programs. But, on the PhD level the average Walden graduate has yet to prove themselves; and, until they do their education will not be respected in academia. I sincerely hope that changes in the future and that Walden graduates will show that they can indeed perform to the same level as their B&M PhD counter-parts. However, that has yet to happen.

Just a Guy December 22, 2007 at 10:10 p.m.

Driving myself crazy,

Have you concidered Indiana State's Program in HRD?

http://www.indstate.edu/consortphd/sched...

JAG

Attention Fools December 24, 2007 at 2:59 a.m.

(1) Surrender their children if they have any
(2) Lose their home and car
(3) Lose their spouse
(4) Be fired from their job
(5) Be homeless
(6) Be treated like a drug dealer, forfeiting their rights to any further student loan money and thrown into a prison for the stupid and inept
(7) Ridiculed openly in society for being the stupidest humans to EVER walk the face of the earth

These things need to happen to for profit online learners.

Newbie December 24, 2007 at 9:20 a.m.

Hi all,
just want to ask some question about Walden's Msc Psy course.
im new to the online education, and has had my doubts (still do, partly) due to various posts etc. - ,
I've graduated from Master degree from a brick&M school from a university of london. As i am a marketer by profession, i would love to be able to incroporate psychology into my work.... will walden be a good place for this?, the online vs non-online doesnt bother me too much, but im more concern about the curiculum of the actual course. . . . - anyone has experienced or going through walden's psy course before?,
kind reagrds n a merry xmas

Dave December 28, 2007 at 6:25 p.m.

Hi all

In South Africa one can still register as a psychologist after completing a master's degree and doing a 12 month internship. I wish to do a Walden master's degree in psychology. Does anyone know how Walden psychology degrees are accepted by the psychology councils in South Africa? Will I be able to do an internship there and register after finishing the degree. (I am South African).

Attention December 29, 2007 at 6:52 p.m.

Reviewing the postings I can only conclude one thing for sure: online learning is not for everyone who needs constant follow up and for those who can not study independently.

The simple truth (in reality) December 31, 2007 at 3:24 a.m.

It all depends on what you want to do with your degree.

You can get a quality education online and learn a great deal. (You can do the same thing at your local library)

If you are trying to get a bachelors or even a masters, Walden etc...are probably ok choices.

However, If you want to get a PhD and work in academia you should look elsewhere.

I have never taken on online class (as if that makes any difference) I have however TAUGHT online classes for UoP and 2 B&M Universities in an adjucnt capacity.

Just Me December 31, 2007 at 11:25 a.m.

Mr. Me Too, Every school has their own way of determining their faculty. So if you are hesitant about not hiring any online PhDs, there are another 1000s school in USA which might give it a shot and recently they are giving a shot at it. However, this might not be true for every department though. So please dont discourage people here. There are people like me here who faired well in academics but going for online option because of everything else in life.

IA Guy I have a cool story for you about the whole profs being behind by ages as far as IT goes. We had a course in soph year where PHP was extremely used in teaching the course. Among many books for the course there was a book for PHP book the prof really wanted us to have because it was excellent, published by a very well known publisher and the reviews were excellent by the php community. Guess what? the author was a very young guy who took the course same semester as I :). He authored it before even he was a college student.

Dr. B January 2, 2008 at 12:28 a.m.

Hi Just Me! I agree with what you're saying. With Walden focusing on distance learning, you'd think that the website would be easier to navigate. I still have problems with it.

As for department pages... Walden does not have departments. But each school has a page and lists deans, chairs, faculty, and academic advisors. To me, the only thing they should do is add more pictures.

Alumni: the alumni association makes it possible to contact alumni. Even though every alum's contact info is not listed, those who actively participate with the university make it easy to contact them. I have done this as a student.... even before applying to Walden.

Publications that came out of this university..... this is a unique scenario. Walden does not participate in institutional research per se. The university empowers faculty and students to embark upon their own research agendas, but do it safely through Walden's IRB. When I had a paper published, it had my name on it.. and not my advisor's. Unlike traditional institutions, Walden's doctoral students do not perform research for their advisor. Instead, they are guided by their advisor and oftentimes collaborate with their advisor. There is no hierarchy.

As for the list of research the university is funding: Well that's a privacy issue. Student awards are mentioned in the accolades section under each School/College or in the alumni magazine. Scholarships tend to be a private matter because it is financial aid. Many of them are need based. The merit based awards are publicly released in the Ponder, which is also open to the public.

This is the masked man! January 2, 2008 at 3:56 a.m.

This is the alter ego of those jokers on this board who believe they know all and anyone who attends an online for profit school is either worthless or subpar to other students. I will continue to mock in you oh so many ways until you leave the board, making you feel like half a man or woman.

Skyy January 3, 2008 at 4:59 a.m.

Amen to that Dr. B!! It's so sad when people are blinded by their own ignorance! And who's the "loser" yet again??? LOL!

Rick January 6, 2008 at 1:10 a.m.

Joe,

Kansas States program is worth while because it it a traditional school with standards.

Walden has no standards and is therefore a waste of time/money.

Rick

Dr. B January 6, 2008 at 9:43 p.m.

Hi Shala... my dissertation is a qualitative study.... I couldn't purchase my data like many at traditional institutions do....

Most people who make negative comments about Walden have 1. never enrolled, 2. never taken an advanced course and/or 3. have never taken an online class. They sure as hell haven't attended a Walden residency.

Don't let ignorant remarks from ignorant people get you ruffled. Keep pressing on with your education.

Best,

Dr. B

Mike B. January 7, 2008 at 1:06 a.m.

After reading all the comments on here, I have come to the following conclusion.

You people all have way to much time on your hands. I am considering an online graduate degree because I am way too busy to complete a masters traditionally.

Bottom line... if you want to get an online degree, one accredited school is probably just as good as any other.

And... If you don't respect online degrees, then don't get one...either way who the hell cares!!!

Dr. B January 7, 2008 at 1:33 p.m.

Hi Joe. I can only truly comment on Walden. However, from speaking with colleagues who have attended the other two institutions, I think that if you desire structure, Walden may the way to go. Nova only offers the DBA online (I think) whereas Walden offers a Ph.D. in finance. You will be required to attend face to face residencies (which are a great benefit) and complete a few kams.... which are pure hell...... I had one to be 142 pages!

If you're looking at a focus on research and publication... Walden may be the way to go. This is what helps you get faculty positions.

If you're looking for an institution with a social change mission... Walden is the only way to go (traditional or non-traditional).

This is what I would do: contact each institution. Ask to speak with alumni from each school. Walden has a newsletter (Ponder) and alumni magazine you can use to see where our graduates and students are going in industry and academe. Contact some of them. One good person to speak with is the Dean of the school of business at Oral Roberts University.

Also... over the past few months, I have posted some very objective information on this site... scroll back and take a look at them. There are links provided.

Best of luck,

Dr. B

Blue Blood January 13, 2008 at 11:50 p.m.

Hi Sally. There have been imposters posting their stupidity on this site for quite some time. These are not online students. You should be able to read through the posts and discern what is fact, opinion, and uttered ignorance.

... January 14, 2008 at 7:04 p.m.

I have seen valid concerns about the quality of online education expressed on this site, only to see the poster of these concern belittled by online supporters.

If you have to stoop to this level you have lost your arguement and proved that online is worthless.

Dr. Dan 2007 January 15, 2008 at 5:18 a.m.

Wow, half the people making comments on this forum can't spell, nor are they able to punctuate correctly.

I am a Walden graduate. It is my 4th degree (1 Bachelors, 2 Master's). My 2nd Master's introduced me to professors who approached education from the European model. I got to know my professors personally. They challenged me to think critically, not just memorize. Walden was a similar experience. For myself, Walden was a positive experience where I built relationships with both peers and faculty mentors. I was able to directly apply my studies to my real life work. I can tell you that I was better prepared to do my job as a result of my Walden studies than I would have been had I been required to conform to the packaged lectures and classes of the brick and mortar institutions.

Dr. Dan 2007

Dr. B January 20, 2008 at 1:22 p.m.

Just A Guy... this was posted before... and apparently you didn't read it. I hope you understand it this time. So here goes again.

Dr. B January 2, 2008 at 5:15 a.m.

Just A Guy... your opinion does not matter to me. No one has been able to show data to support their negative claim thus far. It has all been opinion!

My success and the success of my Walden colleagues proves that the Walden degree is accepted: both in industry and academe. I have provided proof of these things. So I could really care less what you or anyone else on your level may think.

Your name is NOT on my publications. Your name is NOT on any of the degrees that hang on my wall. Your name is NOT attached to my six figure salary. Your name is NOT on my mortgage NOR the wall outside my subdivision.

You DON'T matter! You have NO purpose!

Either show objective data to support your claim or shut up! Better yet, why don't you do the research yourself? I'll even help you with the research design!

Be Blessed!

Jack T. January 21, 2008 at 6:09 p.m.

I am the original just a guy....

The posts that claim that I said that Walden is a fake school were posted by an imposter. He also posts fake comments unter my title Jack T.

I never said Walden degrees were fake. The Imposter did.
This individual is childish.

This forum could be used to promote both the strengths and weaknesses of online education as well as B&M schools. Instead it has devolved into a worthless site due to childishness on the part of one or more people. If you will look at the earlier posts on the Northcentral site you will realize that I am not anti-online. On the contrary I want online to succeed. (As a part-time online professor, It makes me money).

My biggest contention is this...and simpley this....

The online schools of Walden, Capella, NCU, and UoP are too costly when compared to the quality and respect of traditional B&M school's online programs.

Is this a matter of opinion?? YES, I NEVER SAID ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY. But yet inevitably people who graduated from or are attending one of the schools mentioned above will try to say that I am ANTI-ONLINE and that I said "online degrees are fake" The truth is I have been defamed by an imposter who has hijacked this site with trivial non-sence.

Fact is I am not 60-65... I am 34. I am technichally literate and believe that online education is here to stay.
I simply think there is better value to be had in the traditional school's online programs. That said make your own decision as to where you want to go to school. I really couldn't care less.

Jack (JAG)

Jack T. January 21, 2008 at 7:44 p.m.

I am anti for profit when considering online schools. I see another imposter just posed as me again. Frankly, this is tiresome. I wish people would post under their own name, but then I suppose I am on a for profit college review board, which means I am dealing with people to inept to learn and struggle with even the basics of commonsense. With that said, I believe online classes are great, but for profit schools have no business making money off students.

I propensity on this site is to spin it that I do not support online education, which is not true. I just do not support for profit online education and I don't support the students who make the choice to go to those schools. However, do what you want imminent failure is upon you.

I would also like to address "Dr." B. Your continued drivel on this board further supports my earlier salient points that you are nothing more than a "fake Dr." "Dr." B claims to be this insightful and intellectual "Dr." who is superior to others with his title, but in reality, he is a failure in life and happened upon Walden in hopes of turning his fortunes around. I wish you well "Dr." B, but do not come crying to mean when you fail and fall into miserable debt because Walden put their hands in your pocketbook.

“Just Wondering…” has a name that sums it all up. He “wonders” about many things, but does not have the thinking capacity to say any more than, “do research,” “Capella is good,” “Walden is good,” “I am not a monkey learning.” If you put faith into “Dr.” B or Just Wondering…, you have failed.

DWW January 23, 2008 at 1:53 p.m.

Dr. B,

We spoke about 3-4 months ago in regard to the PhD in Finance. Can you send me your contact info to this dummy email address. darrylthenupe@gmail.com. I know people will will misuse it, however I would like to ask you some more questions about the program. Thanks in advance.

Kind Regards,

DWW

--- January 25, 2008 at 4:52 p.m.

You can get a quality education regardless of where you get your degree from but why waste your money

--- January 25, 2008 at 8:47 p.m.

All other things being equal???

Naturally if you have two candidates one of whom has significant field experience and a degree from Walden while the other has only a degree from Harvard with no experience you have to give the experienced candidate their just due.

But if you have two candidates with equal experiance levels one from Walden and one from Harvard, and you still choose the candidate from Walden (Because of where he/she attended school) then you are truly delusional.

--- January 26, 2008 at 1:41 a.m.

Me thinks thou doest protest too much

--- January 26, 2008 at 3:42 a.m.

This is a pointless argument. If someone came to me with a Walden degree I would hire them if I thought they were qualified. Same for Harvard.

Harvard, is turning out less qualified candidates in my opinion because they have bowed to pressure to be politically correct. (If you are a minority, you have a better chance of getting into Harvard than a better qualified anglo-saxon)

The point is (all else being equal) I would hire someone who received their degree from a reputable state supported school before WALDEN OR HARVARD. Because I know I'm getting an employee who understands the value of a dollar and won't waste it when they don't have too.($17400 vs $24000+ for the same degree...Pure stupidity)

January 29, 2008 at 7:54 p.m.

As is evidenced by this site anyone who attends over priced for profit online schools are complete idiots.

Dr. B January 31, 2008 at 11:29 p.m.

Okay, so Walden is for second class citizens who cannot make it anywhere else so they pay to get in so the school can make profit. It also wants to keep you enrolled, so no homework necessary. But we are taking a page from ITT to become better.

Dr. B February 1, 2008 at 3:41 a.m.

The real one.......

I hope you all know that the 11:29pm posting was not me. I guess that's the problem with no required login information. Anyone can use other's alias.

Just A Guy February 1, 2008 at 10:47 p.m.

UHHHH posting to message boards.... UHHHH surfing the net.....UHHH posting to message boards...UHHHH...tipping over cows...UHHH surfing the net....UHHH... did I say posting to message boards...oh ok...surfing the net...LOL!!

Dr. B. February 2, 2008 at 8:37 p.m.

Here is an awesome article:

alumnimag.waldenu.edu/24688_24733.htm

Renee February 3, 2008 at 8:13 p.m.

I am a current student in the Ph.D. Clinical Psychology program at Walden University. For those of you who think Walden is a diploma mill, you could not be further from the truth. It is totally obvious when you post remarks about the school and it's programs that you have no idea of just how rigorous their programs are. I have a B.A. and my M.A. from a traditional brick and mortar school and probably would have gotten my Ph.D. at the same location but they do not have a Ph.D. program. Because the only brick and mortar schools are located in other towns and because I have family obligations and responsibilities, the only alternative was to attend school online. I am accustomed to receiving a top quality education (my Masters was completed at Mercer University School of Medicine!) and I have not been disappointed with the education that I have received here at Walden. Dr. B is correct in that it does no good to argue with those who express ignornant opinions like Just a Guy when they have nothing to base their comments on....... One thing Walden teaches us is not to express your opinion without empricial evidence. Ummm.....maybe they don't teach that in traditional Ph.D. programs. Ummm??

So How February 4, 2008 at 2:13 p.m.

Can you really be proud to go to a school that accepts everyone? On top of that, they have every reason to keep you in classes and make sure you pass. If you fail out, they lose money. They pay high dividends to stock holders and do not reinvest in the school like they should. The professors come from other for-profits like Capella, Phoenix, NCU, etc. Have you noticed most for-profits have their own little world? Each one will hire from the rest. But non-profits rarely hire from these graduates. Maybe it's "academic profiling", but its also common sense.

kb February 4, 2008 at 6:26 p.m.

Thanks so much! Dr. B. I found another alumni who is teaching who graduated from Walden and she is willing to share her experiences. Thanks

So How February 5, 2008 at 2:29 a.m.

Dr. B, please show me where the majority of doctoral students from Walden teach. I bet most are in the for profit education area. Second, Walden is no longer publically traded since they were bought out, but they still respond to shareholders, the same ones who run a bank.

Dr. B February 5, 2008 at 4:13 a.m.

So How.... show me where the majority of any institution's doctoral students teach. Hell I have friends who have a Ph.D. from Rutgers and one from Emory..... both of them have been unemployed going on a year now.

You and many others fail to understand that Walden has a scholar-practitioner curriculum. The university not only prepares its students to teach, but also lead organizations and perform research. Walden is not an academic institution for pure academics and lab rats. It's an institution for social change agents, leaders, and scholar-practitioners. There is a difference.

Ignorance and a closed mind is what makes people think that earning a doctorate is just to teach at the college level. A doctorate allows one to do whatever the hell he/she wants to do. I have a colleague who earned his Ph.D. from UoChicago and has told me that he never ever wants to go into the classroom. Instead, he works in student affairs.... because that is where his passion is. I earned my doctorate and went directly into the classroom... and at a 125 year old liberal arts college. I also do consulting. I'm published. I present at conferences.... I do exactly what I want to do.

You keep making claims about the individual(s) who own Walden. No one really gives a damn because Walden is operated just like any other non-profit institution. It has a provost and a president who call all the shots. There is faculty governance and tons of accountability. Just because Walden doesn't pipe its net profits back into athletics just like B&M schools...... there is no difference. Just like traditional schools, Walden has Accreditations, Peer Reviewed Journals, professional conferences, aggressive research agenda, scholarships, fellowships, professionally and academically qualified faculty, full-time faculty, part-time faculty, and plenty of opportunities.

Walden has been given high marks by US News and Reports and the Washington Post. And not once has it criticized who owned the University. The fact is, Walden is networked with 25 solid international universities. Tons of diversity. Tons of opportunities.

Everything you're saying is BASELESS. Put an end to your antiquated views about Walden and let it go.

Dr. B February 5, 2008 at 2:25 p.m.

So How.... since you want to be so matter of fact about things..... Walden's Richard Riley College of Education and Leadership has 15,000 students and 17,000 alumni..... ALL of them teach in some arm of education.... private and state. I know this for a fact because they have to in order to enter the College.

Dr. B February 5, 2008 at 3:51 p.m.

So How......I see I'm going to have to do you like I did JAG......

This is my last response to you.... you're stuck in a very minimalist and antiquated frame of mind. You're not worth the time in discussion.

I have never had to defend my degree to anyone. I have been offered faculty positions... and never have I had to serve as an adjunct. My question to you is how can you judge something you've never been a part of? How can you question Walden's rigor and you've never set foot into a residency or taken a class? That's ignorance!

You're a little adjuct. I'm full time. I have publications and presentations on my CV.... do you? I don't hide behind a school's brand..... My work speaks for me. You claim that search committees won't consider a Walden Ph.D. (I can't speak for other institutions).... but that's a lie. I have provided plenty of examples on this board and KB has backed me with a few others....

Achieving tenure at any university is a difficult task. Why do you have faculty at universities staging hunger strikes to get it.... read the Chronicle.. You have people from Harvard to never reach tenure. There is a major weakness in your argument. Walden has a very impressive amount of doctoral alumni who are college administrators, deans, and tenure/tenure track faculty.

You're looking at admissions numbers... and not graduation numbers or graduate success...... which is stupid and ignorant on your part! But I say to you again, not every student goes into Walden with the hopes of teaching! Stop being a minimal thinker.

kb February 5, 2008 at 8:34 p.m.

I have a question what is the difference between Regional and National Accreditation

Dr. B February 5, 2008 at 10:46 p.m.

KB..... in addition to the list you gave... you can also add tenured faculty at the University of North Colorado too.... aacsb accredited.

DWW February 6, 2008 at 7:40 p.m.

Dr.B,

The is Darryl, check your email so that I can get your correct phone number. (it was missing the last digit)

Dr. B February 7, 2008 at 5:18 p.m.

I can take this from different facets.... but basically it is all common sense, KB.

www.waldenu.edu/c/Schools/Schools_7319.h... read this page too: www.waldenu.edu/c/Schools/Schools_9609.h... so you tell me why this person didn't know? i do not feel sorry for him/her. everything is spelled out!

This person obviously cannot spell or read. For clinical psychology (which is one of Walden's toughest programs), all residency information is published in the University catalog with curricula, in university brochures, and in each student's school. It is not the admission's counselor or recruiter's job to hold a student's hand. There are no secrets. Clinical Psych is a licensure program. Students have 120 plus 500 plus another 1200 or so hours they must put in face to face, clinicals, and test-outs. They must complete a practicum, they must complete an internship. Would you want an ill-prepared psychologist treating you? Hell no! lol

The person also mentioned a two conference requirement.... is that a bad thing? Give me a break. lol

The Clinical Psych program lasts on average 6 years at Walden. This "poster" is obviously pissed because they didn't make the cut and they were probably dismissed. Oh well.. screw them.

Professors are required to respond to students' work within 10 business days... that's major assignments. They are more active in the online courseroom. Faculty also post their home/office/cell numbers for students to call them if there is an issue.

This person stated that they received all A's, but right before that they stated that they received a low grade for not referencing their work..... duh? Like all rigorous doctoral programs, Walden requires a deep knowledge and proper usage of APA. If a student doesn't know it... they're not going to make it... plain and simple. APA is addressed in the very first class and the APA manual is the first book a Walden student is required to purchase.

This person obviously took Walden's open admission policy for a joke.... which is funny as hell to me because it came back and bit him/her in the ass. But I think it's a good thing because it shows that even though Walden will let you in.... only the fittest will survive (Darwinian Theory).

Walden is a solid institution with rigorous curricula that WILL NOT graduate garbage or the weak!

Newk February 7, 2008 at 10:07 p.m.

So How is obviously another disgruntled drop out.

So How February 8, 2008 at 3:35 p.m.

What makes it so much more funny is the idea that Dr. B claims to be a doctor from Walden, but spends so much time on this website defending and hyping up Walden. Its so funny he thinks this is a real college and people respect it! HA HA! So Dr. this is what Walden grads do with their time, try to explain their "valid" degree!?!?!? HA HA HA!

kb February 8, 2008 at 5:45 p.m.

I like you Dr. B!

Dr. B February 8, 2008 at 10:12 p.m.

Thanks for your input. Of course I'm going to naturally tell people what a WONDERFUL university Walden is. But one thing you may have missed is that I back it up with OBJECTIVE support. This support is more than enough for anyone to make an informed decision about applying and/or perhaps attending Walden. So you betcha!

I hate to be braggadocios. However I use my success as an example that Walden degrees are accepted in both industry and academe. It all comes down to how the student applies his/her education. YES.... you can attend Walden and not get a job but you can also attend Rutgers and Emory, and Chicago and not get one either.....

I just want people to stop passing ignorant judgement on Walden. If there is something bad published about Walden... please feel free to post a link. I would love to see it. Otherwise..... these personal opinions mean absolutely nothing. That's why I provide plenty of OBJECTIVE support.

So How February 12, 2008 at 12:24 a.m.

Walden is still for those who cannot make it anywhere else. Plain and simple. I would be willing to place a nice wager that well over 90% of Walden applicants could not get into a traditional phd program.

Confused February 14, 2008 at 5:50 p.m.

Walden has helped me enhance my career and move in directions that would have not been possible prior to graduation. I have an MBA with concentration in HRM. There are skeptics out there for the degree. Anyone who claims Walden is just as accepted in the world as Harvard or any other B&M is wrong. I have been told before Walden is not an acceptable MBA because it’s not a real degree. This is going to be the case for a while until online is full integrated into society. The case against the so called "for-profits" I understand. I don't think it is fair however, to compare Walden to Phoenix, Capella, or ITT. Walden has a history that proves itself. The idea that "they might go the way of Phoenix" is not fair, given the history. Just as it’s not fair to compare Penn State to Harvard. If Walden was out for money, they have had a long time to become greedy and start taking and graduating an outrageous number of people.

So, in conclusion, yes, Walden is not on the same playing field as a traditional school to some people and places. But it takes the individual to be able to overcome this small inconvenience and prove themselves. The degree is just a qualification that says "I have this credential". Your history is what says "I am the best candidate for this job, not my degree".

OMG February 15, 2008 at 12:36 a.m.

Any student who attends Walden is adult enough to make an informed decision about their career and education. HC has no one to blame but him or her self. If I knew that CEPH was necessary for my career goals as a public health official, I would not have gone into the program. But you must keep in mind that no institution begins accredited and they must graduate a certain amount of students in order to even get to the self-study/application phase of accreditation.

Walden has publically made its intent to apply for CEPH in the near future known. It is a member of APHA. The programs are three track, ones for a bachelors and no masters degree, one for CEPH accredited master's degree holders, and one with non-CEPH master's degree holders. Accreditation is a process!

Walden emphasizes participation in professional communities for programs and careers. When students enroll at Walden, they'll get a free one-year membership to the American Public Health Association. Walden has also held face-to-face Ph.D. in Public Health residencies at APHA conventions, where students have made presentations based on their coursework and research.

Walden's public health program is extremely new. The university did not graduate its first set of graduates until 2005. Let's be real! It takes time!

Dr. B February 15, 2008 at 10:31 p.m.

Punxy_girl.... hi. Do you have any other licenses? What state are you in?

Robert Thomas February 16, 2008 at 6:46 p.m.

I had been attending New Mexico State University's B&M campus but had to drop back to part-time due to work obligations.

I decided to enroll with Walden inorder to continue my college education on a full time basis.

I enrolled in two undergraduate online classes at Walden. I was shocked by the lack of quality in both of these classes. Speaking from personal experience....WALDEN SUCKS.

I'm going back to NMSU's ground campus program. if it takes me a little longer to finish it will still be worth it.

Robert Thomas

punxy_girl February 17, 2008 at 6:38 p.m.

Dr. B, I am in Pennsylvania and hold no other licenses.

Dr. B February 17, 2008 at 11:52 p.m.

punxy_girl..... you may want to call the PA psycology licensure department and check. because you are not currently practicing under a license... you may be at a disadvantage in PA. i just checked the licensure application and it states apa or cpa accredited institutions. but you may be good if you were to do an online at fielding, which is apa accredited.

but for now... your best bet is to contact them directly.

Dr. B February 18, 2008 at 4:02 p.m.

Fielding is a good school. One of the Walden faculty on my dissertation committee earned her Ph.D. there. Fielding had to sue to get apa accreditation. I think they require interviews too.

he he February 18, 2008 at 9:09 p.m.

Basically, Walden is useless.

Dr. B February 19, 2008 at 8:09 p.m.

APA may definitely be an issue.... especially if you go try to go into an APA accredited program. You may, however, try teaching at smaller liberal arts colleges. APA also has ways for you to get APA accredited interships that will help solidify your credentials. Of course, it is of most importance that you join APAGS and APA after graduation. You need to actively participate and you must publish, present, publish, and present some more.

Even though getting a faculty position is difficult at apa schools, it's not the end all. While attending a colloquium this summer at the Univ of MN, one of the presenters was a recent Walden graduate and had secured a tenure track position at a large university in South Carolina.... but she worked her A$$ off!

Walden Wannabe February 20, 2008 at 6:14 a.m.

Im interested in the MPA degree ( Masters of Public Administration with an emphasis in public policy)...I am Canadian...has anyone had any luck with this degree?

Worried February 22, 2008 at 2:53 a.m.

Did I just spend the last two years earning a masters degree nobody is going to respect? I will review this question later, but how valid is this website? Since its not a dot-com, it may be a bit more valid, but this no-logon post thing makes everyone a bit more decietful.

For Profit School Groupie February 24, 2008 at 6:34 p.m.

I hear Walden is under a major re-org. One of the new execs is a Susan Saxton (who was formerly at Kaplan & Cappela & maybe others). Is this a good thing that Walden is recruiting in people like this? Does anyone have a good read on how solvent Walden is and its future? Seems like a very competitive industry. I also heard rumor that Walden is buying some B&M schools in the states. What do people know?

Dr. B February 28, 2008 at 5:20 p.m.

Hi Ca.

There are plenty of Walden students who plan to seek licensure in CA. If you're not a member of APAGS, it would be in your better interest to become one and get active asap.

APA accreditation does not guarantee licensure. But California will allow non APA graduates to sit for the exam. To that end, it would be in your best interest to make sure that you've done everything necessary to prepare... especially if you're not currently practicing with your master's credentials.

Most institutions/states require for internships to be from APA accredited institutions. A membership in APAGS will subject you to those possibilities. Also, you can go back to your old institutions and try to work with faculty you may have something in common with. You're going to have to network and perhaps use all of the resources available to you.

You also need to contact CA's psychology board for licensing information. They do allow Walden graduates to sit for the exams. You also need to start building a portfolio of transcripts, test-out analysis...etc so that you can show evidence that your educational experience has truly prepared you for the intership position.

Hope this helps.

Dr. B February 28, 2008 at 10:32 p.m.

Hi CA..... I try to check the board in between classes and meetings... lol So you got lucky today. :=)

One thing to note is that Walden's School of Psychology is still pretty new. Also, while Walden graduates a representative amount of doctorates in psychology.... many of them are not in clinical psych.... the program is just plain hard and takes a long time to complete. I have a colleague who is headed into her 5th year... and she's actively done residencies and testing hours. It's just a hard program. And from what I've been told, the clinical psych program is being revamped; adding more full time faculty and more rigorous. So good luck to you! lol

As for licensing... Walden is more representative in other states. MN accepts Walden's clinical psych doctorate and quite a few others.

Just remember this: work hard... publish... present at APA conferences.... and network. But most of all... publish, publish, publish.

CA February 29, 2008 at 7:39 p.m.

LOL,

I definitely hear what you are saying. I have to appreciate you for your sense of humor, lol, and the fact is you get what you put in. I have already felt some of the effects of Walden's academic requirements. Not pretty, way difficult, but difficult is good. I am standing my ground and I approach each class with a new sense of motivation and desire to master the material.

Of course, being active duty in the Navy and having deployed to war twice already provides for additional stressors. Working as an Explosive Ordnance Disposal technician, which is a hard program, gave me the confidence to accomplish many things, but leave it to me that out of all the programs to pick, I pick the one that is "just plan hard." lol. The good thing is that I have enjoyed the adventure so far and I think that alone is a good enough reason to continue my pursuit.

Thanks for all of your assistance and I look forward to chatting with you periodically throughout my studies.

Cheers.

CA March 1, 2008 at 12:38 a.m.

ahhh, that is awesome. Thanks for the laugh, although truth be none it is not funny at all, it is scary as hell. :) I will keep marching forward. This quarter I have two pretty easy classes, Statistics, which I love and have already taken (as it relates to MBA), and Biopsychology, which just straight up sounds cool. So, I am sitting pretty good for the next 12 weeks. Once again thanks for the nice emails. I will stay in touch. Oh, and yes, I read those ponders like they are research papers. Alot of great information. Thanks.

Norman March 5, 2008 at 9:09 p.m.

The residency is a 100% necessity for phd level students. Walden is one of the better for-profits in this arena. Maybe UoP can take a page from that.

lucky March 11, 2008 at 9:33 p.m.

Hey all, I think some of you have can not see the trees for the forest. These types of programs (on-line) are mostly for "ADULTS" seeking to get more education to imporve their lives in some way. I think it is sad that some of you think you are smarter than others because you got your education at a B&M school as opposed to on line. I am 40 years old, have a family, a very good job, two BA's and a MA from B&M schools. I am looking at "on-line" schools to get a Phd as it is something I have always wanted to do, but life got in the way.What is funny is that if I get this on-line Phd some of you will think you are smarter than me because you got a Phd at a B&M school. I say get over yourself, I have met smarter people than me who have never gone to college. If you are a "Smart" person you will be able to say the same thing about people you know. Some of you say you will not hire me, this is the funniest part of all, as people come to me for jobs. So all of you "ADULTS" out there get your education the best way you can. If a mature adult comes to me and shows me they compleated an accredited on line degree while holding down a family and a carrer I will be impressed.

Does anyone really think in a few years this on-line/B&M debate will even matter?

Dr. B March 13, 2008 at 1:29 p.m.

I am is not a fraud. It just turns out that you're a complete failure. If you go back and read, you made known that you were not already licensed and you were not practicing. This closed the existing loop hole for you.

Then I told you that you could possibly sit for the exam in the state of Texas.

Don't blame me... take responsibility for your own failures.

Be Blessed!

Dr. C March 13, 2008 at 8:58 p.m.

Dr. B works for Laureate Education Inc. Walden hires marketing people to scour the internet and promote their school. Don't believe me, try googling some of his answers. I have a strange feeling that you might find some of that exact same wording connected to a dozen different names on different sites.

A sign of a bad school is one that feels it needs to pay people for good reviews. Do your own searches on the internet, talk to people on Myspace and Facebook (individuals with real accounts) and you will find out the truth. Until then, learn to spot fakes like Dr. B.

Dr. B. March 13, 2008 at 9:49 p.m.

Ok.... Dr. C... a "real doctor" puts weight into Myspace and Facebook? That's interesting!

I wish I were employed by Walden. That way I would have to work for the old stuffy 125 year old institution I currently work for... and I probably would have gotten a huge discount on my tuition.

I don't mind people googling my responses. I'm glad they're on the internet.... because they're OBJECTIVE and FACTUAL.... unlike your baseless and extremely ignorant ass.

Leah March 14, 2008 at 3:05 a.m.

So Dr. B works for Laureate Education... I knew he was suspect when he wouldn't share any of his published works.

Dr. B March 14, 2008 at 1:33 p.m.

USN.... have you taken the exam? I mean, the exam must be rigorous enough where students from many of the schools listed failed. Go back through past years and you will see that Walden has had students to sit and pass the exam. In 2005 Walden had one student to fail.

Leah, just like I told you on the UoP board, you don't matter to me. People who know me know very well what I am about. They know my work, and what I do professionally. You're a liar and as you implied on the UoP board, probably a disgruntled lesbian who broke her last chew toy.

Also I told you I do not work for Laureate. But I wish I did work for Laureate... I would have had a large tuition discount.

And one last note, you're false claims do nothing to harm my reputation. I don't have to prove anything to you.

Dr. B March 15, 2008 at 12:13 a.m.

CA.... I understand. If you want.... drop me an email and I will contact you there. Just so I'll know it's you, list a few things found on the psp....

this is a "sponge" email account so i do not check it regularly. but i will follow up with you. lowkeygent@aol.com

JACK T March 19, 2008 at 3:48 a.m.

Dr. W,

You could not possibly be MORE WRONG...credits tend to easily transfer between undergraduate programs. But, when you start talking about graduate level work especially at the doctoral level it is difficult if not IMPOSSIBLE to transfer between programs even between traditional B&M schools much less online programs.

It is obvious to me that your online degrees have failed to educate you as to how higher education at the doctoral level actually works.

JT

USN O-6 (ret) March 19, 2008 at 7:40 a.m.

Dr. W

If you have a PhD and apply for academia in traditional "universities" you will be shunned for the most part. They are very annal about where your degrees come from, particularly your doctorate. Employers vary to their personal tastes. I read somewhere on this forum that vault.com did a survey where 60% of employers still prefer traditional degrees. I think it is a bum rap but only time will change it.

BTW... the constructivist approach in education already has a meaning, building on past knowledge, not constructing your own learning.

@JACK T

Graduate work will transfer, you just can't transfer very much of it. Generally 6 credit hours only...

Walden Wins March 30, 2008 at 8:57 p.m.

Walden wins three awards:

ponder.waldenu.edu/c/11468_25062.htm

USN O-6 (ret) April 3, 2008 at 9:56 p.m.

@JT

6/90 would apply to a PhD... people do go for masters that are much less. You don't change doctoral programs so transferring that would be pointless and irrelevant to a discussion of graduate transfer policy. The 6 credit rule was set up to prevent that in the first place. They want you to complete the courses at their schools. It has nothing to do with selectivity like undergraduate transfers do. You can transfer your first 6 credit hours just as easily as you can your first 60 from the undergraduate as they are survey courses anyway. Online or B&M, it doesn't matter if it is accredited RA. I see it done all the time into our grad program from returning officers who wanted a head start on their masters serving overseas.

USN O-6 (ret) April 4, 2008 at 8:18 a.m.

Who posted this website?

ponder.waldenu.edu/c/11468_25062.htm

Those awards are a total crock... award for best logo. Give me a break!

USN O-6 (ret) April 4, 2008 at 6:23 p.m.

Is Walden so desperate for attention that they must grasp at the straw of being listed with those schools for any arbitrary thing? None of the awards has anything to do with the school itself and the organization, UCEA, passes out awards for anything... logos, community service, marketing strategies. That is certainly nothing potential students will want to know. If Walden gets professional accreditation for it's teaching program or is ranked in US News then you let us know as that is something worth mentioning.

Dr. B. April 6, 2008 at 12:55 a.m.

Hi LQ. I'm sorry your experience with UMN didn't work out too well. But as for Walden.... I believe you'll find a difference in all of the programs. Walden has hired more full time faculty and has a stronger governance policy in place. You'll also find that the leadership in the public health discipline is strong.

Walden is active with the public health association. As a student, the university pays for your membership. There are tons of scholarship opportunities.. and a big push for you to be active and publish with the public health community.

What specific questions do you have?

Ivy Tower April 15, 2008 at 4:03 p.m.

Well isn't Walden University a RA institution?

UOP April 22, 2008 at 6:50 p.m.

Walden Cares? ROFL!! Why don't you offer debt consolidation services so unemployed graduates can avoid bankruptcy? lol!

USN (O-6) ret April 25, 2008 at 2:47 a.m.

What idiot ever said Walden was a non-profit? It is owned by Laureate Education Inc. who owns several for-profit schools. They are in the business to make money.

John April 25, 2008 at 6:26 p.m.

Hi, Dr. B.-

Thanks for the info. It's good to know that the ball is rolling. I can think of two privately held corporations I took non-profit when I was practicing law. It took a ridiculously long time to accomplish (getting boards together, govt. approval, etc. constitutes a tremendous amount of hoop-jumping.) It is also the most boring legal work imaginable :).

Two personal observations: First, When I applied at Walden, I was told to investigate other schools first. The admissions committee wanted to make sure I knew I was a good fit for Walden. No other school even suggested that I check out other schools. BTW, I was accepted at the two brick and mortar schools to which I applied--BYU and the University of Utah. All of the schools I looked into, both traditional and non-traditional, were fine schools. Each had its merits and weaknesses. In the end, I chose Walden for the faculty and the program. It works for me.

Second, Walden's clinical pshych program is brutal. I do far more work and am significantly more knowledgeable than my four friends at b&m schools. That sounds egotistical. I don't mean it to. But when I get together with my friends or sit in on some of their classes, the differences become unavoidable. I have earned the respect of students and faculty at the two local major universities, although I must admit that at first everyone was curious about Walden. I will probably join in on some research with one of the schools next year.

Walden is not for everyone. If you prefer hand-holding, this is not the place for you. The standards here are often higher than at other schools (take, for example, trying to get through the IRB), but they have to be for us to get noticed. And we do get noticed. If you don't believe me, just go to the APA convention in Boston. We hold up quite well. I am rambling, and will now stop.

Best-

John

Dr. B. April 26, 2008 at 6:20 p.m.

To UOP...... I am glad that you're exerting so much effort in trying to discredit Walden University. But as a tenured educator, I feel compelled to enlighten you on something. At the University of Phoenix, the Master of Science in Counseling program in Community Counseling (Phoenix and Tucson, Arizona campuses) and the Master of Science in Counseling program in Mental Health Counseling (Salt Lake City, Utah campuses) are accredited by the Council for Accreditation of Counseling and Related Educational Programs (CACREP. That is only 3 campuses! This program is not offered online.

On the other hand, Walden University's master in mental health counseling students must do a 2 week face-to-face summer residency in addition to their online coursework. IN FACT....Walden University is in the self study and application phase for CACREP accreditation like the other QUALITY schools listed on this list.......www.cacrep.org/docs/ProgramsInProcessUpdate.doc . Any further questions?

Hey John.... You are 100% correct. I know the IRB story oh too well! Please continue to do what you're doing. It's okay to seem elitest and egotistical.... especially when you know more than those perceived to be your peers...... well at that's how it is in the monastery of academia! lol

UOP April 26, 2008 at 11:21 p.m.

Bring it on Mr. tenured educator. If you feel the need to beat people over the head with your substandard credentials then by my guest. The FACT is UOP has CACREP for it's human services degrees and Walden doesn't. The poor excuse you keep giving is the same diploma mills have given throughout time, "We are SEEKING accreditation." Feel free to get back to us when you have something more substantial to add.

Double Standard? April 27, 2008 at 1:43 a.m.

Hilarious, have you taken courses at either institution to know they are both "Sh-t"?

UOP May 1, 2008 at 1:54 p.m.

Who cares about a website that says sucks.com? I don't...

Double Standard May 5, 2008 at 6:17 p.m.

@ Hilarious.

Which courses did you take at Walden and UoP. Who were the instructors? What made you enroll at both in the first place? Apparently they offered something you were searching for?

Hilarious May 11, 2008 at 4:59 a.m.

Walden---Course General Management Instructor Penny Wilkins
UoP---Corporate Finance Instructor Kevin Murphy

"Anyone who has to transfer through three schools has serious problems"

Yeah thats true I had problems with the fact that The "Graduate Level" classes I was taking at UoP/Walden did not meet the rigor of my undergrad work at the University of New Mexico. I gave these schools the benefit of the doubt becase they allowed me to attend while maintaining full time employment. I quit because all I had to do is pay my tuition and show up and I was guaranteed an "A". I wanted to be challenged in Grad school not told "read this book and write a 3 page paper" and then be handed an "A". I then found the University of Oklahoma offered an Executive MBA and while not an online program, I was able to make it work with my schedule. Maybe I had an isolated experience, and others are actually learning something at Walden/UoP (as I grant you that one class at each school is not an adequate statistical sample) But, from personal experience, If anyone asked me, I would say that Walden and UoP are VERY substandard in the education that they provide.

By the way, I graduated from the University of Oklahoma's Executive MBA program with a 3.85 GPA and I actually learned something unlike my experience with UoP and Walden. So, while I "Had to transfer through 3 schools" it was by design not necessity. In addition, OU would not accept either course, but I was not surprised and couldn't blame them.

Double Standard May 11, 2008 at 12:47 p.m.

@ Hilarious.

1. Ok it still sounds like you're contradicting yourself. You're saying that you only took one class at each institution but you listed med/high level courses. What happened to your beginner courses? You can't go to those courses without the beginner courses first.

2. No grad program will take higher level or specialized courses from other schools. It takes away from their pocket. So I seriously doubt it had anything to do with the Walden or Phoenix. If this is the case, they are undermining the regional accreditation process.

3. You said yourself that your experience is not statistically enough to generalize and that it was isolated. Why pass judgement on an entire institution because you had a bad experience in one class? You mean to tell me that UMN was a piece of cake? BTW I read in the chronicle where UMN had accreditation issues in the past couple of years.

4. Just as people with PhDs look down on people with EdDs etc, do you realize that people with traditional MBAs look down on people with executive master's degrees? I have several friends with traditional MBAs and they would never higher someone with an executive MBA because they are "cut short." I too have a traditional MBA.

Eagerly awaiting your input.

Double Standard May 12, 2008 at 2:10 p.m.

Apparently you couldn't do much better since you sought those two schools first. To add, the EMBA program at Ohio U was SUSPENDED and they are no longer excepting applications... must have been a weak program from the beginning. All they have now is the PMBA and the Integrated MBA at OU. The PMBA does not require a GMAT score but the MBA does. The costs are just as expensive for the PMBA as is the institutions you're comparing OU too.

It appears that you wanted a quicker way out; or so you thought. But then again, it did take you 3 years to earn a degree that traditionally took me 18 months while working full time and having a family. I'm assuming that your opportunity costs were much much less. But then again, I don't have a PMBA or an EMBA, I have a traditional MBA.

Even though it took you forever, I applaud you for earning your MBA; even though the school does not offer it anymore! I just think that it is very disheartening for you to knock others who see these institutions as a way to achieve their life's goals and grow professionally.

In The Chronicle May 12, 2008 at 3:20 p.m.

Walden University’s School of Health Sciences is proud to announce the launch of a new Master of Healthcare Administration (M.H.A.) program to meet the growing need for administrators with the specialized skills to address the increasing complexity of the health care industry. Walden has designed the new M.H.A. program—one of the first online programs of its kind—to prepare both current and future health care administrators for leadership positions across the spectrum of health care organizations. For more information, please visit www.WaldenU.edu/mha.

Program Information

48 semester credit hours
Foundation and core courses (42 sem. cr.)
Practicum and capstone (6 sem. cr.)
Professional Portfolio

Estimated time to completion of 2.67 years. Time to completion may vary by student, depending on individual progress and credits transferred.

Hilarious May 13, 2008 at 4:06 a.m.

BTW,

Exactly where to you get this "tradional" MBA that you are so proud of??

Hilarious May 13, 2008 at 11:04 a.m.

Also, I never said it took me three years...That is the maximum time. I finished the degree in 2 years. Furthermore, I fail to understand why you are so insistant that your "traditional" MBA is better. What part of EXACT same coursework don't you understand.

Hilarious May 14, 2008 at 12:25 p.m.

Oh, an Ivy League "trust fund baby"! That explains alot.

Hilarious May 15, 2008 at 4:50 p.m.

Double,

I'm not downing anybody... All I originally said was that I had a negative experiance with both Walden and UoP when I was trying to find a masters program that would fit with my career responsibilities and I let other people know of these negative experiences. I'm sorry if you have a problem with that but that does not change my opinion that there are much better schools than Walden or UoP (Penn being one of them)

Regards

Double Standard May 22, 2008 at 8:21 p.m.

Even though I love Penn, I have to be honest in saying that it definitely had many flaws. But I stuck it out and you won't hear many people being downright negative about the institution.

Double Standard May 26, 2008 at 2 p.m.

No I'm not. I'm simply saying that both of these schools obviously had something you wanted. You crapped out and ended up in an executive program at Oklahoma (which is still crap).

You stated that both Walden and Phoenix had issues, which obviously still have you bitter. I made my statement about Penn to let you and the world know that ALL SCHOOLS have issues. But I didn't bitch about it or try to discredit the school. I stuck it out and finished.

Walden or Phoenix were not for you but they're perfect for others. Penn may not be for you but it was "okay" for me. An "executive" degree from Oklahoma apparently was good for you but I would never get an "executive" degree. We all make decisions that are best for us and fit our personal preference.

No one knows anyone's personal circumstances that influenced their decision to attend a particular school. What made you apply to Walden and Phoenix? What made you enroll and pay them thousands in tuition? Apparently your personal circumstances were a factor.

I have never applied to either school.

I have stated this before. Stop knocking others who may be in the same shoes as yourself. You don't like Walden or Phoenix. But I don't like people who are hypocritical and think they're top knotch because they hold a crappy "executive" degree. Your executive MBA is MBA Lite!

You need to support others who made an informed decision to continue their education.

Chris May 27, 2008 at 4:48 p.m.

Walden is interested in your money but not much else (at least thats my experience with them).

Hilarious May 29, 2008 at 12:39 a.m.

Double Standard, you are a piece of work. You take something I said and completely turned it around. I have never "knocked" others for attending Walden or UoP as a matter of fact I admire anyone who wants to better themselves by attaing a higher degree of education. I think it is very possible to get a very good education at Walden, UoP or any other accreditied university (as education is a direct reflection of what each student puts into it).

You are the one who seems determined to belittle others!

"Your executive MBA is MBA lite"

All I said is that for the tuition that a prospective student will spend I feel that there are better options out there (based on reputation customer service provided etc...).

And, For what its worth, the students that I was in class with, in my "MBA lite", included the CFO of Devon energy, The CTO of Sonic Corporation, The CEO of Oklahoma Rock.

I probably learned as much is not more from these excellent business professionals than I ever would have from a bunch of 23-24 yearolds fresh out of undergrad. All I have to say is that it is plainly obvious to me that you have a lot left to learn

Double Standard May 29, 2008 at 4:01 p.m.

Hilarious, I rest my case.

UOP, even though I agree with most of what you stated, regardless of the school, MOST programs only allow a maximum of 6 credit hours; traditional or none. They need the money.

In The Chronicle May 29, 2008 at 7:36 p.m.

May 29, 2008

Laureate Education Weighs a Deal With the College of Santa Fe

Laureate Education, a private firm that owns Walden University, is in talks with a struggling college in New Mexico that could give the international company a second campus location in the United States and turn the College of Santa Fe into the latest private college to seek a deal with a for-profit higher-education company in hopes of resolving its financial troubles.

But the deal is not yet sealed.

On Wednesday the College of Santa Fe’s Board of Trustees voted unanimously to form what it called a partnership with Laureate.

A Laureate spokeswoman said, however, that the deal was still tentative. “We are in discussions,” said the spokeswoman, Debra Epstein. She called them “exploratory conversations.”

According to an article in the Santa Fe New Mexican, a local newspaper, officials on both sides are discussing a plan under which Laureate would assume the college’s debt — the amount was not disclosed — and assist in marketing, branding, and recruiting more students. Ms. Epstein said she could not say whether the talks were a prelude to Laureate’s buying the college.

Faced with declining enrollments, Santa Fe has been cutting programs and staff members for about a year. It has also pushed to refocus its mission on the arts. Ms. Epstein said that such a mission could fill a niche for the Laureate network of universities worldwide.

If a deal were struck, it would be Laureate’s second domestic arrangement. In 2004, Laureate forged a deal with a culinary institution in Chicago, Kendall College. —Goldie Blumenstyk

HERE IS AN ACCOMPANYING ARTICLE: www.santafenewmexican.com/SantaFeNorther...

Tad May 30, 2008 at 8:18 p.m.

I agree with hilarious. Bad experience with UoP... all they want is your money... they couldn't give a crap about anything else.

UOP May 31, 2008 at 7:29 a.m.

Everyone just hates on UOP because they are the leader in higher education. More people turn to them than anyone. If it was so bad they wouldn't have the largest enrollments and continue to grow. Keep hating, we will keep laughing at those who are jealous of our accomplishments.

Jeff May 31, 2008 at 9:38 p.m.

For those interested the following came from Valueline:

APOLLO GROUP 'A' (APOL; 42.99)*

Latest Report page 1578 2-1-08

Apollo Group, a provider of higher education for working adults through the University of Phoenix as well as the Internet, lost $0.19 per share for the quarter ended February 29th. Included in the results was a large charge representing estimated damages stemming from a securities action lawsuit. Excluding the charge, we estimate the company made $0.41 per share. Revenue and share-net were both significantly below our expectations, apparently due to higher discounts and slower enrollment uptake. Too, expenses were up due to the continued hiring of enrollment counselors. Our estimates are under review. Apollo shares are down nearly 25% in late morning trading.

D.G.M.

* The earnings estimates presented herein supersede the figures found in the Summary & Index included in Issue 6 of The Value Line Investment Survey, dated 4-4-08.

Report Prepared on 3-28-08

I see they are hiring more and more "enrollment counselors"
(also known as used car salesmen) If this is such a great school why do they have to "Sell" it to people.

Truly good schools attract people on reputation. UoP has to attract students through high pressure sales tactics.

Why??? because they suck thats why!!!

Public Health Student June 2, 2008 at 3:30 p.m.

I've been reading the above comments with a lot of interest. There are a few things I would like to add that are purely due to my personal experience in public health education. I'm finishing up my MPH at Emory University and will soon be looking to PhD and DrPH programs. As I asked professors and other public health professionals about these programs I became more and more conviced that strictly online programs are seen as poor judgement. Atlanta being the public health capital of the world I gave these responses great weight. However, I continued to ask around about Walden specifically. I had a middle manager laugh out loud when I asked him if anyone would be hired at the CDC with a graduate degree from Walden University. The degrees in public health are simply not recongnized as anything more than extremely poor judgement on the individuals part. I say this only as a warning to those giving serious consideration to Walden University programs in public health. Traditional universities must be accredited by CEPH and members of ASPH to be consiered legitimate (Walden is neither).

UOP June 2, 2008 at 10:18 p.m.

Mr. B thinks seeking accreditation and having a bunch of adjuncts working in the field is equal to gaining accreditation. It is the same tired excuse he has been using from the outset. Walden lacks professional accreditation because they are inferior. Don't listen to rhetoric diploma mills have been giving since the end of time... We are "seeking accreditation." Don't buy it.

*Note, he has used that excuse for every question on accreditation.

UOP June 3, 2008 at 2:53 a.m.

@hilarous

Some people can't go to traditional schools so you have to pick the best of the available. That is UOP.

Public Health Student June 3, 2008 at 3:12 p.m.

Dr. B makes a good point that each public health program does undergo an accreditation process. The average time, according to CEPH, is actually 3 years but it can take longer. Further, having students and faculty that are active in the APHA does not make Walden University a member of the APHA. Additionally, faculty that I have spoken with insist that in order to work at the CDC in a public health area (and virutally all areas are) the individual must graduate from an accredited institution.
If Walden attains its accreditation I will sing its praises.
You may not want to believe everything people in an airport tell you - I once met a man whom insisted he was Jesus.

Hilarious June 4, 2008 at 12:48 p.m.

UoP "the best online program available"

OMG you cannot be serious.

University of Texas
Penn State
Duke
Upper Iowa
Kansas State
U of Oklahoma
Colorado State
Etc...Etc...

Just a few of the HUNDREDS of better (online, and so completely "available") programs than UoP.

Anyone that attends UoP when there are so many other better, more repected, and less expensive options available is an idiot.

UOP June 4, 2008 at 9:24 p.m.

"OMG you cannot be serious.

University of Texas
Penn State
Duke
Upper Iowa
Kansas State
U of Oklahoma
Colorado State
Etc...Etc..."

They do not offer the program selection one can take at UOP and their technology infrastructure is inferior. If you live out of state they are just as expensive as UOP.

Public Health Student June 5, 2008 at 1:14 p.m.

I need to make a correction on an earlier comment I made. I had indicated that Walden University was not a member of the APHA when I had intended to indicated their lack of membership in the ASPH (Association of Schools of Public Health). I have no doubt that they are members of the APHA since that membership is open (I had a membership before I had any affiliation with public health education or practice).

Public Health Student June 5, 2008 at 2:33 p.m.

Membership in the ASPH is not mandatory to have a good program, that's absolutley true. I have no problem with Walden University except that I'm reading a great deal about individual (and who knows what their agenda may be) experiences that are described as having a lack of organization and rigor. This is most likely the product of necessary growing pains within the program itself, which is to be expected. I would simply advise prospective students to be extremely critical of prospective programs, be they Walden, Emory, or Harvard. I would also advise them to only considered programs that are CEPH approved, not in the process. CEPH approval is not retroactive - if you graduate a program that receives its accreditation after you graduate it will do you no good since at the time of your graduation it was not.

%*& June 7, 2008 at 12:21 a.m.

"dr" B is a fraud

Dr. B. June 7, 2008 at 12:25 p.m.

As I clearly stated on the UPX page, I don't owe you anything. I don't have to prove myself or my credentials to someone who doesn't even know what The Chronicle of Higher Education is. You're a nobody. And yes... It's Dr. B.

Dr. B. June 7, 2008 at 6:44 p.m.

What evidentiary support do you have to show otherwise?

Jeff June 7, 2008 at 8:45 p.m.

Mr B

What "evidentiary support" do you have to show that your a "dr"?

You refuse to provide any actual evidence, Although you have been asked many times.

Your a fraud

UOP GRAD June 7, 2008 at 8:53 p.m.

I would definitely recommend anyone who is considering any university to do research on the school. I went to a traditional undergraduate school, and completed my masters a UOP. I had a bad experience with UOP because of the turnover in academic counselors and miscommunication in other areas. But I have friends who went to UOP and loved the school. I really think it depends on what area you studying.

If you choose an online school, make sure you have work experience in the area. My UOP degree has helped me advance my career, but I had good work experience in my core area before I entered the program. I'm now taking online post-graduate classes at SUNY Albany that are online classes. The workload and the way you take classes are very similar to UOP.

Dr.B. June 9, 2008 at 3:56 p.m.

Jeff, I don't owe you anything either. People who know me and people who matter are well aware of my credentials and scholarly record.

Jeff June 12, 2008 at 1:29 a.m.

Like I said Mr B is a fraud. Do not believe a word he says.

Dr. B. June 12, 2008 at 3:04 p.m.

hi Joe. i just don't see the need to identify myself to a set of nobodies. all of my publications give my personal identity. there is not telling what these loons are capable of. my face is plastered on two of my articles.

they will just have to get over it. lol

Joe June 13, 2008 at 5:44 a.m.

I don't need to see any proof Dr.B. I would like to know at what university your Walden degree found you a tenured position.

Curious June 13, 2008 at 3:03 p.m.

B - Please post a link to the Penn State Walden Alum.

Joe - Please post your link of "shut up".

B - If "these people on these boards" mean nothing to you, why do you spend so much time here defending what you do and posting here? In essence, even if you are implying letting people know "how wonderful Walden really is", you are recruiting for them. So why spend this time here if it doesn't matter? Surely a "respected tenured" professor has much better things to do than this.

Dr. B. June 13, 2008 at 8:05 p.m.

Curious. The semester is out and other than traveling and consulting, I really have nothing else to do. I don't consider myself "defending" anything. I am simply on here countering the false claims on this site with the truth... which I have posted "real" proof.

Joe June 13, 2008 at 8:46 p.m.

I ran a search on Dr. Sherry Robinson @PSU and it turns out that she is an associate professor of economics. She holds degrees from: Messiah College, International Business Institute, Bucknell University, Walden University, and the University of Oslo.

I doubt if she got her postion from holding a degree from Walden when they don't even offer an economics program. Her terminal degree is from Oslo which is a top 70 globally ranked program. To say she got her position because of her Walden degree is intellectually dishonest. I'm starting to wonder about you Dr. B. :(

Dr. B. June 14, 2008 at 2:28 p.m.

Joe... not once did I say or imply that she received tenure because of Walden. But she received tenure years AFTER she got her Ph.D. from Walden. You asked me to show you a tenured faculty member at Penn State... and I did. And she's an associate prof of business administration... that's her official title.

Dr. B. June 14, 2008 at 2:40 p.m.

One more thing Joe... 99% of the Ph.D. students at Walden earned their master degrees elsewhere.

Joe June 14, 2008 at 9:32 p.m.

Well it looks like Dr. B has lead us astray on quite a few issues.

SHERRY KAY ROBINSON
Title: ASSOC PROF ECONOMICS
Colleges: Messiah College, International Business Institute, Bucknell University, Walden University, University of Oslo... Terminal degree comes at the end
Administrative Area: PS HAZLETON

www.psu.edu/cgi-bin/ldap/ldap_query.cgi

So her title is accoc. prof of econ, her terminal degree is from Oslo, and she doesn't even teach at the flagship campus of Penn State but at the campus in Hazelton.

Dr. B said... "It was recently announced that Dr. S.Robinson, a Walden 2000, Applied Management and Decison Science graduate recently received tenure at Penn State University and is a faculty chair over one of the master’s degree programs there. We all know how traditional Penn State is."

You and your cronies at Walden should be ashamed.

Can you spell B-U-S-T-E-D?

Joe June 14, 2008 at 10:54 p.m.

That is just semantics. It is a lie to say she teaches at "Penn State" which implies the flagship campus, when it is Penn State @ Hazelton... a small sub-campus. To sit there and pretend she is the head of a masters program at Penn State when it is @ Hazelton is laughable.

Dr. B said... "recently received tenure at Penn State University and is a faculty chair over one of the master’s degree programs there."

Penn State@Hazelton doesn't offer master's degrees Dr. B. Are you tired of lying yet "Mr." B?? No PhD at a REAL college would lie so much. You probably do work for Laureate.

Leah June 16, 2008 at 6:41 a.m.

"Mr." B is a fraud. Any doubt in my mind has been quashed with Joe's posting of Mr. B's fraudulent Penn State claims.

Jeff June 17, 2008 at 5 a.m.

The bottom line is simple.

Walden, Capella, NCU, and the other UoP clones are subpar schools that way over-charge for the level of education that they provide.

If you get your degree online from a traditional state supported school, you come away with a diploma that will cost you 30-50% less and command a far greater degree of respect.

Avoid Walden, Capella, NCU, and UoP. You will be far better off in the long run.

This is simply a public service announcement for people looking to get an online degree. Look at the online degrees offered by the traditional state supported schools. They are better, more respected, and cost less.

Felix June 19, 2008 at 12:44 a.m.

I have been following this thread for a few weeks now. I am a Walden student in my 4th quarter and enjoy Walden. I have my Masters degree from an internationally recognized college, a real brick and mortar in New York City. I wanted to continue my education but the idea of having to stop working and attend a full-time program was not realistic, I have a family to support. I looked around in NYC, trust me, I have plenty of choices for a Ph.D., but, I found the demands unrealistic. The university I attended is not that selective, did not require a GMAT, but has an excellent reputation.

I am not going to argue that Walden is the best university, but, I will share my experience. Weekly discussions are challenging and require participation. I have had courses in brick and mortar schools where students never spoke and yet we all got full credit for participation, so calling Walden a diploma mill because it gives out A's for participation is a weak argument. You MUST participate in the weekly discussions or get a grade of zero.

I have never needed much support from any school. At Walden, I do everything online or on the phone such as attend webinars on social issues and career advice.

Professor feedback varies. If you read the discussions you can tell that students are digesting the material. The professors aren't there to debate with you or argue points, the material is given to you, so go find the answers and think for yourself! A lot of students can't handle that, they want a professor to read notes or from the textbook to them, that's not a lecture, it's a summary! I have an assignment, I am told what to read, and then I have to answer questions. Professors do extend the conversations and ask additional questions to some students, they are not invisible.

The residency I attended was amazing. From courses on research resources, to research practices, and improving writing skills, I was thrilled to meet other students from across the country.

Walden is a threat to the traditional university and academic snobbery will continue. I think a few of the complainers here just couldn't deal with the independence. I am a professional already in my career. Having Walden University on my resume has already helped me get one promotion, and once I complete my education, I look forward to more open doors. Not just because of the name of the college, but, because of the skills I have gained from Walden, experience from life, and my professional drive.

For those who are so negative about Walden, I can tell some of you had a very bad experience. I am sorry to see how bitter you have become. What surprises me is that people don’t go around bashing brick and mortar college that much, it just looks cheesy when someone complains about a college, it is easy to pick on Walden because it is an easy target as an online university. Legitimate online universities and courses have a tough time because of real diploma mills.

Current Student June 19, 2008 at 3:42 a.m.

Do not go to Walden University. If you absolutely have to go there, do not major in a Psychology. I have been to both traditional and this on-line for profit school and it is just that. They do not care about their students. The admissions person will be very nice to you and help you get admitted, but afterwards all your assistance will stop there. You will have to take time off of work for 2 weeks, 3 times within a one year time span to go to what has been the worst use of my time thus far. This school just wants your money. Believe me. If you want to just give your money and time away, go get a volunteer job and make donations. Make good use of both of them and DO NOT GO TO THIS SCHOOL. SAVE YOURSELF. Believe me. I wish someone had told me.

Walden Student June 19, 2008 at 10:29 a.m.

She attended Walden? Why would a Walden PhD do something so vile? How can they lie so often. This Dr. B appears to be a fraud and claims to hold a PhD from Walden as well. Walden students calling critics of Walden dumbasses and saying they suck is not helping anything. This is not good for the reputation of my school.

Joe June 19, 2008 at 3:32 p.m.

I didn't post that article. Someone is copy-catting me. My last post here was on... June 14, 2008 at 10:54 p.m

I would never equate that woman to an entire school.

Joe Sucks June 19, 2008 at 6:31 p.m.

Walden Student you are just as dumb as Joe is. No one said that the lady who got her Ed.D. from Walden was a dumbass. I said that Joe was for making a half-assed case about the caliber of students at the school.

I suggest you take an extra 10 seconds and read over the post again. Don't embarrass yourself.

To Joe... June 19, 2008 at 6:47 p.m.

Dr. Boyd is director of the Department of Homeland Security’s Office of Interoperability and Compatibility. He earned his PhD at Walden...

Use a search engine to get more information :)

To Walden Student... June 19, 2008 at 7:31 p.m.

I don't believe you are a student at Walden...

To All... June 19, 2008 at 8:05 p.m.

After reading Dr. B's posts I would hardly believe s/he is a fraud...

In terms of what Dr. B said about Dr. Robinson, it is true.

In terms of what Dr. B said about Walden University, it is also absolutely true. I also had some doubts about Walden University 4 years ago, but my first experience with it proved to me that it is a great university.

Just a Point June 20, 2008 at 3:57 a.m.

Here is a link to Baker College (a non-profit)'s faculty listing for its new DBA program. All of these faculty members are CURRENTLy affiliated with Walden either full-time or part-time. Dr. Hoehn, for example, is full-time faculty at Walden and has been for over 25 years. Dr. Stahley recently left Walden as Associate Dean of the School of Management to be the founding faculty of the DBA program at Baker.

www.baker.edu/doctorate/faculty.cfm

Walden PhD Student June 20, 2008 at 12:28 p.m.

Dr. Abraham Meilich completed his PhD at Walden. More about him:
www.incose.org/symp2001/archive/program/...

Walden PhD Student June 20, 2008 at 2:08 p.m.

Dr. B, it is nice to hear from you again!

Dr. Babb's final statistics exam was really hard...

Walden PhD Student June 20, 2008 at 3:46 p.m.

The statistics course at Walden was really helpful.

I was explaining my colleagues how to work with t- and chi-square distributions recently. My colleagues earned their MBAs from an Ivy league University...

Statistics will be the same whether you study in a traditional school or on-line...

Walden PhD Student June 20, 2008 at 5:37 p.m.

Dr. Terri Bittner has a very good and informative website:
www.bittnerfamily.net/resources.html

Joe June 20, 2008 at 7:14 p.m.

It's about "Dr." B and his claims that a Walden PhD got an alum a tenured position at Penn State, when in fact it was at the obscure campus @Hazelton that doesn't even offer masters degrees that he said she was in charge of. It isn't a condemnation of Walden but of one of Mr.B. The most widely known reputation of Walden in the general public is one of continuing Ed. for teachers who just want a pay bump. No one expects their grads to be at the pinnacle of their fields, they just want the money and Walden gives that to them. Walden serves a purpose but it isn't a very noble one.

Felix June 20, 2008 at 9:49 p.m.

Joe, You are mad because people go to Walden to get a degree so they can earn more money? I don't understand your anger with this, that's one of the points of continuing education. Walden's purpose is to help you earn a degree, why a person gets a degree is beyond Walden's control, and is the truth for any university.

You are mad at Walden for some reason, I don't know why, but I am trying to understand where you are coming from, but I just don't get it.

I bet you will never find Walden on the list of top ten college party schools, and you know what, parents still send their children to those schools and the kids earn degrees and go on to make more money.

I don't know Dr. B, nor do I care to defend any facts he has made, but he is just proud of his accomplishment and where he went to school. There is nothing wrong with that.

Another Joe June 21, 2008 at 12:28 a.m.

Bottom line... If you want to go to Walden go to Walden, If you don't, don't. Why the hell would anyone care where someone else went to school?? It just doesn't make sense???

Dr. B. June 21, 2008 at 3:14 a.m.

The Richard Riley College of Education at Walden University launched its inaugural issue of Impact Education. This is an official publication of the College of Education and is an excellent resource for individuals interested in all levels associated with the field of education.

The inaugural issue features a conversation with Richard W. Riley. In “The Lifelong Pursuit of Education,” Riley, the former Secretary of the U.S. Department of Education, describes the difference between a good teacher and a great teacher.

“Walden Addresses the Community College Leadership Crisis” highlights Walden’s Ph.D. in Education specialization in Community College Leadership and its role in developing the next generation of leaders. “Mentoring the Next Generation of Teachers” describes how Walden is helping working professionals begin a second career in education through its state-approved* teacher preparation programs.

Other highlights include profiles of alumni making a difference in their community, as described in the “Lifelong Learners Insights” department. This issue includes Heidi Evans’ remarkable work with hearing-impaired students and Rebecca McLelland’s efforts to expand her students’ perspectives on the environment.

View the inaugural issue at ImpactEducation.WaldenU.edu.

*Walden University’s teacher preparation programs are approved by the Minnesota Board of Teaching for licensure in Minnesota. Walden’s enrollment advisors can provide individuals with guidelines and other information about licensure. It remains the individual’s responsibility to understand and comply with the out-of-state licensure requirements for the state in which he or she seeks to be licensed.

Leah June 21, 2008 at 7:10 a.m.

Oh yeah, Walden is solid. Just like Kennedy Western had hundreds of graduates in the upper echelons of the DoD made them solid. Out of all the gradautes that come out of Walden only a few of them ever go on to do anything remotley noteworthy and none achieve the top of their field. If Mr. B really did all he said all we have to do is look on the short list of accomplished alumni and we should be able to find him.

Stupid People June 21, 2008 at 2:01 p.m.

It seems that Leah obviously has it out for Walden like Joe. Why would an institution have a short list of successful graduates. Especially when most of its graduates go on to do great things?

To show she doesn't know what she is talking about, Kennedy Western doesn't even fit in this discussion.

To "Why Bother".. June 21, 2008 at 7:19 p.m.

Yes, I agree with you. Why bother? And why you wrote this stuff? Why you blame all people? Why you ever came here?

Another Joe June 22, 2008 at 12:56 p.m.

I was am in the military and my schedule completely ruled out college attendance in a traditional sense. I received my bachelors online from the University of Texas (it says nothing about being an online degree) and I recently received my masters in Industrial Psychology from Kansas State University (also an online degree---Also says nothing about online on my diploma)

I was recently commissioned as an officer in the U.S. Air Force. Working with many other individuals that received their degrees in a traditional manner, I can attest that my education was just as good if not better than many of the folks that I work with. (I'm not saying that the education they received is bad) What I am saying is that I would be willing to put the education that received online up against anyone else's on the planet.

A person can get a very good education online (I am living proof of that). So...Joe/Leah, Please tell me why you care where SOMEONE ELSE goes to school??

Another Joe June 23, 2008 at 12:08 p.m.

I am not making the argument that UT online is the same as UT Austin. (I don't even know how you could have inferred that)

I am just curious as to why it would matter to YOU PERSONALLY where someone else goes to school?

What business is it of yours if someone decides to attend a school like Walden?

BYW, as far as getting hired goes, where you went to school only matters at the very beginning of your career. For later career movess it is all about experience, experience, experience. If you think that 15 years into your career anybody is going to give a rat's behind where you went to school, then you are delusional. When it comes to employment opportunities its all about "what have you done lately"

Regards,

Another Joe

Another Joe June 23, 2008 at 12:40 p.m.

Further, It just so happens that I work with another Lieutenant that attended UT Austin. We are the same military rank, and he is one year older than me (26 vs 25) but I MAKE MORE than him. Why? Because I have 4+ years enlisted time and he doesn't. Like I said experience counts more than education.

Another Joe June 23, 2008 at 1:17 p.m.

Leah,

Are you seriously implying that if someone attends Walden, they will lose their home? (I think your cause and effect analysis is "SLIGHTLY" flawed LOL)

Walden is a regionally accredited school. Don't you think that if Walden was really that bad that the regional accreditors would revolk their accredidation?

Are you trying to say that regional accredidation means nothing?

As far as buying inferior or "devalued" products goes, Walmart sells millions of inferior products each day, Do you suggest we shut down all the Walmart stores?

I, on the other hand, would say that if you don't want inferior products, then don't shop at Walmart.

I'm sorry, but your arguments are very flawed. I reiterate my contention that it is none of your business where someone else chooses to attend school. If you feel that Walden is that bad you should take your complaints the the regional accrediting authority not vent your baseless dribble here.

Regards

Another Joe

Another Joe June 23, 2008 at 2:25 p.m.

I assume that your sister had at least a bachelors degree before enrolling at Walden and was thus a moderately educated adult.

In our free enterprise economy consumers are allowed to make decisions regarding the products services that they purchase. In doing so, it is ultimately the consumer's responsibility to ensure that the product/service that they are purchasing meets their needs. If your sister did not perform due diligence before she enrolled at Walden she has no one to blame but herself.

That said, I would not recommend pursuing a PhD at Walden. (I thought about it, but when I researched the option I realized that I could not obtain licensure in the sate where I intend to practice) However, I would let others know that if Walden meets their needs, that there is nothing wrong with obtaining your degree online.

After receiving my bachelors/masters online I was accepted into the University of Oklahoma's Traditional Doctorate program. I did not enroll however. Instead I accepted a commission in the military. I am 25 years old and will recieve a military pension at the age of 37. (Joined when I was 17) When I retire I will get a PhD from a traditional PhD program. But I reiterate, That there is nothing wrong with getting your education online and it is none of your business where someone else decides to go to school.

P.S. Im sorry that your sister made a poor decision..but attending Walden is not what will cause her to lose her home.

Arguments June 23, 2008 at 3:24 p.m.

Outlined here is a simple list of arguments against for-profits:

1) Open enrollment. At a BS/BA level or higher, this is not acceptable. Let people in without competition for an AS/AA and then prove themselves in that degree first. This is very true for Phd level.

2) "Enrollment Counselors". People should not be paid like car salesmen and have their enrollment numbers determine pay in education. I could care less if my taxes weren't paying for many of the people to go there.

3) False advertising / Over Advertising. At least ITT is now putting on their commercials a disclaimer about not transferring credits. Sure, all these schools are "accredited", but the general public doesn't realize how important professional accreditation is and the different types.

4) Understand that no traditional universities respect Phd's from these schools. In the US, our number one industry that compares to no other in the world is academics. This is why we are able to microscopic of achievements at the Phd level.

5) A University being run like a business. Just bad.

Leah June 23, 2008 at 3:53 p.m.

One of my sister's biggest complaints is she got absolutely ZERO support in her career placement. There was no networking of placed alumni nor any connections in the profession that could get her an in. It was a nightmare the way she put it in regards to lack of support. The career center Walden provides offered less help than most job websites. She had such a hard time getting the faculty to respond to her emails she became enraged. I remember one particular night of frustration when she called me; she about ripped MY head off for Walden's failures. To blame my sister for Walden's empty promises is misguided when they advertised "career enhancement" and "support" in professional development. What they did to her was downright fraud.

If you have such a good education and job then good for you. Getting into the military is easy. You have obviously never had to fend for yourself in the commercial world. At 25 you still have alot to learn. Stick with the military because you're Walden degree will drag you down on the outside.

Joe June 23, 2008 at 4:18 p.m.

I don't have a problem with online education so save your breath. I do have a problem with for-profits because the model doesn't work if quality is the goal.

"Thus, your argument that a school is bad simply because it is for profit does not hold water."

It sounds like your argument doesn't hold water. You mixed up your example. A non-profit vs the same non-profit doesn't work partner. Try again...

"I really don't think that anyone is attempting to compare Walden with Cambridge."

Riiiight... you're the one who tried to compare top tier schools to a library education.

Another Joe said.... "An individual can graduate from a top tier school and receive a lower quality education than someone who simply frequents his/her local library."

ROFLMAO!! You sure lay it on thick partner... I will give you that!

Missing the forest for the trees is a good idiom to describe your position. For you to tread water with that view you would have to provide an example of a decently ranked for-profit school. Come back when you find one. LOL!

Another Joe June 23, 2008 at 5:20 p.m.

Further, Education in our modern economy is vitally important. We live in an information economy and education is its lifeblood. Not everyone is capable of the elite academic work required of Cambridge, Harvard etc... But there is definately a place for State colleges and small private univerities as well.

who are you to say that there is no place for for-profit universities in our educational system. And, as I said before id you/Leah feel that strongly about it complain to the regulatory bodies about it. Bitching about it on this forum will not get you anywhere.

Another Joe June 23, 2008 at 7:36 p.m.

I do agree that Open admissions is a bad idea. For profit schools should at least have minimum entrance requirements.

Not everyone is cut out for graduate level study, and allowing everyone who applys into the program in unfair to those students that do belong, due to to the significant group work requirements that the vast majority of graduate schools require.

However, Just because a school is for-profit does not make it a bad school. You have to give me more substance than "their for-profit, and therefore they are a bad school"
back it up with some actual evidence.

V/r

Another Joe

Arguments June 23, 2008 at 8:10 p.m.

From the above:

Number 3 in the above statement is a horribly overused statement. Again, there are different types of accreditation. In the case of Psyc, Walden does not have APA accreditation. I doubt it holds ABET accreditation. I know it doesn't have AACSB accreditation. You can give me alternatives to these, but they are cheap alternatives that do not matter. And being accredited is much different than being affiliated or a member of.

Face it, Walden sucks.

Felix June 23, 2008 at 8:38 p.m.

To Arguments, John Hopkins doesn't even have doesn't have AACSB accreditation. It may be by choice, but, I wonder why such a university with a huge name doesn't. Im sure you would go there given the chance. Only about 10% of business schools have it, so the the 90% are garbage? Please, it may not be gold standard, but at least people are getting their degrees. More snobbery from people who probably don't even have college degrees themselves.

Felix June 23, 2008 at 9:04 p.m.

Leah, I'm sorry about your sister's situation, but, she should have researched the issue more. When I did my residency there were people who were working on their PhD's for Psych. When I asked them about licensing concerns they said that they were already licensed in their states with the Masters degree they held, the PhD just helped bring them up to PhD status to get the title and expand more. It was working for them because they had researched the issue. I am doing a PhD, but, my field does not require a license so I am not in that boat.

In addition, to suddenly expect to get the the big breaks with a PhD is unrealistic, you still have to work your way up the ladder.

Dr. B. June 24, 2008 at 2:34 a.m.

Wow. A lot went on today.

Leah June 24, 2008 at 4:59 a.m.

"Watch video about Tim:
realpeople.waldenu.edu/video-tim.cfm"

That doesn't have anything to do with Walden. Maybe you should watch it before you post irrelavent links.

Leah June 24, 2008 at 4:29 p.m.

Yeah, really. The guy lost his leg and decided to start a charity. That has NOTHING to do with Walden.

Newk June 24, 2008 at 7:34 p.m.

I told you all Leah was stupid.

To Arguments June 24, 2008 at 8:24 p.m.

You're creating a double standard here. First you all were saying that schools without professional accreditation were garbage. Now all of a sudden research schools like JHU don't need them? That's BULL. Harvard has AACSB, so why not Johns Hopkins? Johns Hopkins is known for health and environmental related research. Not Business!

What if all schools did like Johns Hopkins and abort accreditations like AACSB? What argument would you all have then about smaller schools that need the AACSB label to recruit students? By JHU not having AACSB, doesn't that negate the argument that AACSB is important?

Doc Psych June 24, 2008 at 9:02 p.m.

I graduated 2 years ago with a Ph.D. in clinical psychology from Walden University. I am licensed and am currently practicing in the state of Texas. My practice is strong and continues to grow. With family and professional obligations, Walden was the only way I could achieve my goals. The faculty is awesome and the residencies were intensive and great. I do not regret my decision to attend Walden University.

My advice is for those interested in the psychology program to do their own research and make an informed decision as to whether or not to apply.

Felix June 25, 2008 at 3:07 a.m.

Tacky, tacky, tacky. Accusing students who are happy with their education of being employees of Walden. Well, I am not.

That single mom made a mistake, she goofed. I'm not in the Psychology program and I EVEN KNOW ABOUT THE LICENSING ISSUES. You mean to tell me in all those years and her residencies the issue and conversation of licensing never came up? I doubt it, so I don't believe the story at all.

"no for-profit school will be able to seen as respectful."

That is not the correct. There are some on the U.S. News & Reports list.

Another Joe June 25, 2008 at 4:48 a.m.

Joe,

You really seem hung up on AACSB.

Here is a news flash for you. AACSB is not the end all be all. It is an accredidation for business research institutions, and IS IMPORTANT if you want to teach at another AACSB accredited school. However, If you are interested in working for industry or teaching at a non-AACSB school its importance diminishes significantly.

The key is to understand exactly what you are buying before you enroll. If you want to teach at The University of Texas at Austin, Then YOU SHOULD NOT get your PhD from Walden. (I don't think you should get a PhD online in ANY CASE but thats just my personal opinion.)

However, If you want to teach at a school like WTAMU, then a Walden PhD may work for you.

Bottom line you have to do your research and know what you are buying. If you fail to perform due diligence before enrolling, you have got no one to blame but yourself.

Newk June 25, 2008 at 11:59 a.m.

I was watching CBS news this morning and found it interesting how a guy in a nice suit was holding a sign on the corner passing out resumes. His sign said "MIT grad looking for a job"....

Sad. Even the MIT name can't keep you employed.

To Joe June 25, 2008 at 4:45 p.m.

So what is my IP address and who do I match up to?

Public Health Student June 25, 2008 at 5:43 p.m.

I think one of the points that is missed in this "conversation" is that PhD programs are meant to be selective and rigorous. One of the simple facts is that many individuals cannot afford, either time or money, to enter into a 3-7 year obligation with very little pay. Stipends tend to range between $16,000 and $20,000 annually, that's just too difficult for most people to deal with. I know I'll be attacked for saying this but Walden and UOP and the other purely on-line institutions are much less selective in their screening process. I'm not saying that intelligent and hard working people aren't deserving of advanced degrees it's just that established universities basically smother their PhD candidates with all the trappings of their chosen field. Individuals ideally leave universities with a PhD having developed the potential to be leaders in areas such as research and academia. There is a reason for the selectivity and demands of these programs. Some universities offer part-time PhD programs and even JD degrees that are just as intense as the full-time. I wish everyone good luck with their education and careers.

To Arguments June 25, 2008 at 9:34 p.m.

Do you have a Ph.D or executive doctorate? If so, from what institution? What was your GRE/GMAT score? How long did it take you to complete it? Please tell us about your dissertation.

Public Health Student June 26, 2008 at 1:11 a.m.

To the comment immediately above. If admissions criteria are so soft anyone can enter regardless of GPA, experience, or writing ability, the program itself is effectively worthless. The degree will have no value if nothing is required to obtain it. I knew there would be those that are unwilling to give what I said a moments thought but I thought the response would be more thought out than "Admissions criteria should not be rigorous." Further, the curriculum and learning environment are very rigorous in established PhD programs and the criteria are there to ensure the candidate is capable of succeeding. You're right, selectivity does not guarantee success in a program, but universal acceptance virtually promotes failure.

Another Joe June 26, 2008 at 9:32 p.m.

Finally, Something that Joe and I agree on. I think one of the biggest problems with the for-profits is their open admissions policy. Due to the group work that is involved with almost every degree program, People who are not qualified drag down thise students who do have the qualifications necessary to succeed. I know the proponents will argue that you have to "give everyone a chance to succeed" but if you know beforehand that someone is going to fail and you enroll them anyway you are essentially STEALING that persons tuition money even if its only for a course or two, until they "wash-out".

Joe June 27, 2008 at 5:18 a.m.

When for-profits start being selective about admissions you will see a marked increase in their reputations. It is at least 1/3 of the problem of the perception.

Leah June 28, 2008 at 8:42 a.m.

Joe is the only one who put up his REAL credentials. We all know he went to The Citadel just like he said. That means he was most likely military too. As to the rest of you we don't have a clue so I tend to believe him. He is certainly more real than the fake "Dr" B.

Another Joe June 28, 2008 at 6:52 p.m.

Oh Please,

Whats it to you?

another Joe June 29, 2008 at 12:48 p.m.

Leah,

Your an idiot

NYT June 29, 2008 at 9:18 p.m.

But perhaps the biggest risk associated with online degree programs is that not all of the programs are created equal.

John Bear, co-author of “Bear’s Guide to Earning Degrees by Distance Learning” (Ten Speed Press), said prospective students should consider working toward online degrees only from well respected institutions.

“The popularity of online degrees has made the bad guys swarm out of the woodwork to the point where there’s now a whole world of bad and fake degrees,” said Mr. Bear, an educational technology consultant in El Cerrito, Calif. “Before you invest time and money, make sure you’re putting it in the right place.”

Joe June 30, 2008 at 4:19 p.m.

"No one will ever even know that you attended online."

If you worked out of state it will be pretty obvious on your resume.

Another Joe July 1, 2008 at 2:44 p.m.

Joe,

"If you worked out of state it will be pretty obvious on your resume."

That is not necessarily so. Before coming back into the military, I worked for a little over a year as an HR Rep for Sara Lee Corp. When I was interviewing for that position, the hiring manager noticed on my resume that I received my bachelors from UT and my MIOP from KSU. The Idea that the degrees had been earned online was never brought up by either her or me. Even though is was obvious by looking at my resume that I was not living in Austin or Manhatten during the time that I was in school, she confirmed with the schools that I had graduated and that was that. I had a great interview and was offered the job. It is the respect of the school that wins the position...It has nothing to do with the fact that the degree is earned online or in the classroom. That Said, I would still avoid Walden.

V/r

Another Joe

To Joe ... July 2, 2008 at 9:57 p.m.

You wrote:
"An online degree from a traditional school is still a good degree, but they still know you did it online."

I agree with you. Can you tell me which one of these traditional schools should I apply if I pursue a PhD degree online?

Arguments July 3, 2008 at 12:56 p.m.

You will be hard pressed to find a traditional school offering a Phd online. An online Phd should not exist and they know that. The reputation of the program is from the research they produce and the close interaction of student/advisor. No respectful advisor would ever accept an online student.

To Arguments... July 3, 2008 at 1:34 p.m.

I can not disagree with you, but I think much depends on how students work on their dissertation. I heard complaints from PhD students that there were not much help from their advisors.

In The Chronicle July 3, 2008 at 3:52 p.m.

In September, courses will begin for Walden University’s new M.S. degree program in Clinical Research Administration. Offered through the School of Health Sciences, the program is designed to provide students with the knowledge and skills required to address the current and emerging guidelines and standards of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

This program features

A curriculum addressing the most recent developments in the clinical research field.

An emphasis on state-of-the art knowledge of clinical research execution and management.

A practicum to give students hands-on experience in the field.

A capstone to help students develop a professional portfolio
More Information.

M.S. degree program in Clinical Research Administration: www.WaldenU.edu/mscra

Regent University July 3, 2008 at 5:11 p.m.

Regent Unive