Warren National University

Joyce February 7, 2007 at 6:24 p.m.

Good to see that Kennedy Western has changed their name to try and bury their past while still offering meaningless degrees for cash.

What a horrible institution

Texas April 11, 2007 at 11:39 a.m.

The State of Texas calls Warren National "University" a:

Fraudulent or Substandard Institution with No Known Texas Connection

Fraudulent or substandard degree" means a degree conferred in Texas in violation of the Texas Education Code

http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/AAR/Private......

Kevin April 24, 2007 at 4:42 a.m.

No need to try the courses. My employer, the school I would like to get an MBA from, and the Department of Education have all already told me that it won't be considered for promotions / won't be accepted in transfer / is unaccredited.

Even the much maligned University of Phoenix and the completely unknown Fort Hayes State are much better options.

To prospective Student May 4, 2007 at 4:59 a.m.

As far as I know, Warren National is offering the same programs as Kennedy Western, so it should be available. I think all that changed was the name.

Good luck!
You are 40 hours away from a Warren MBA!

Lawson May 25, 2007 at 9:53 p.m.

John,

This school has no chance of gaining regional accredidation. Do not waste your time/Money on any program they have to offer.

Just print one June 18, 2007 at 8:38 p.m.

Don't waste your money on this school. If you must go this route, print one off yourself, it has the same value as a WNU degree and will hold up to any scrutiny just as well, without paying the $$$$.

F Y I June 29, 2007 at 7:34 p.m.

I busted my hump EARNING my PhD from KW. My family and I sacrificed heavily in time, hard work, and finances to EARN this degree. The knowledge and experience gained far outweigh the cost.

Interesting to note; of the distinguished "investigators" that prepared the GAO report, none have an advanced degree.

Rolo July 3, 2007 at 1:19 p.m.

"Interesting to note; of the distinguished "investigators" that prepared the GAO report, none have an advanced degree."

And neither do you if you attended Kennedy Western / Warren National

To M: July 9, 2007 at 5:45 p.m.

Sorry to hear you got scammed. Can you protest it on your credit card or through your better business bureau?

To Robbie: July 12, 2007 at 9:30 p.m.

"Many employers accept KW degree"

I would rephrase that as "some employers do not verify educational credentials properly"

See:
George O'Leary (Notre Dame football coach)
Sandra Baldwin (US Olympic committee)
The 463 government employees holding KWU and other unaccredited "degrees" who were terminated or disciplined in the Senate investigation.

etc
etc

To Jason: July 20, 2007 at 3:49 a.m.

"Accredited" is a word used by the education system of this country to justify the exorbitant and outrageous costs of a college education."

Funny thing is that Warren National costs on average or more than a real, accredited school, so I don't get your point. Did all those Senate Hearings and lawsuits raise the price?

Jason July 22, 2007 at 4:13 p.m.

"Funny thing is that Warren National costs on average or more than a real, accredited school, so I don't get your point. Did all those Senate Hearings and lawsuits raise the price?"

You obviously have no idea about education costs in this country. Kaplan was more than Warren National and my traditional "brick and mortar" classroom courses dwarfed the per-credit hour price of Kaplan And Warren National. At $350/hr (which is generously low) and 62 hours required for an associates, this would work out to $21,700 just for tuition. Kaplan and Warren are nowhere near this cost. I understand math is not everyone's strong suit. An apology is not necessary on your part.

WNU Student July 24, 2007 at 3:05 a.m.

To Lawson:

Why doesn't WNU have a chance for accredidation?

Bryan July 25, 2007 at 7:31 a.m.

Thanks for you observations and comments!
Sorry I have to ask.

"I'm glad you learned something and I agree with the life-long learning sentiment. However, you have a "degree" from a business that accepts 100% of students, graduates 100% of students, and from the Senate testimony, requires very little effort and is unaccredited. What does that say to a potential employer? "

Are you basing your observation solely on what’s in the government article? http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04771t.pdf...
The purpose of this probe was to identify accounting fraud in the Federal Goverment, during the investigation it also uncovered that their are programs, or should I say and procedures for obtaining a degree other than accredited intuitions.
You make several assumption in your summary and in point 1 & 2.

I assume that you are a graduate of an accreditated instuition!

How do you validate your education to a potential employer?
I assume again, GPA, transcripts, education verification from the instution.
If I am correct; So far we go about it the same way!

By easy to obtain if you are referring to working a full time job 8~12 hours a day, coming home passing pleasantries’ with my family then hitting the books for 3 to 4 hours, including 4~7 hours Sat&Sun for 3 years.
Then yes it was easy!
Prior to the start of this program an investigation was undertaken via the internet, Department of Education and also the state which provided the school its license to issue degrees.
It was clear that this program was not accredited!
Further I learned that accreditation is a "voluntary" association not mandated by the Federal Government or
by all States but rather pressure is applied by the target market and intuitions issuing degrees to meet the same standards.
It appears that business (Universities) and the Federal Government are attempting and to equate non accreditation status as degree mills.

I agree one should not be allowed to buy a piece of paper, earning it is a total different issue.

I wish you well in your travels.

Best Regards,
Bryan

Me 2 July 25, 2007 at 2:09 p.m.

My point is that you have to go to an independent 3rd party to verify the usefullness of any certification / license / degree. Those independent 3rd parties are accreditors, state licensure boards, national student clearing house, faculty accreditation requirements etc.

Having a non independent degree or transcript from Warren National is meaningless, since nobody will vouch that it has any academic meaning.

For example, you can get a degree and a transcript from Rochville University (unaccredited like Warren National / Kennedy Western) at: http://www.affordabledegrees.com/

No Studies
No Attendance No Waiting
No Examinations
No Hefty Fee
On the basis of what you already know, you can now qualify for an accredited degree that is accepted and recognized worldwide for as little as $199. Order now and receive your degree in just 5 days!

Bryan July 26, 2007 at 7:58 a.m.

Thanks again for you comments;
I would ask that you read the first chapter and more from the Dept of Education concerning Degree Mill's!
Also note in the article the use of the term "recognized"!

http://www.ed.gov/students/prep/college/...

"What is a diploma mill? The dictionary defines a diploma mill as:

An institution of higher education operating without supervision of a state or professional agency and granting diplomas which are either fraudulent or because of the lack of proper standards worthless. - Webster's Third New International Dictionary "
source:
http://www.ed.gov/students/prep/college/...

Further:

"Accreditation in the United States is a voluntary, non-governmental process, in which an institution and its programs are evaluated against standards for measuring quality".
source:
http://www.ed.gov/students/prep/college/...

Also while attempting to make my way thru the govermental info I looked up the accreditiation "corporation" that WNU has made an application.

" What is the Higher Learning Commission?
The Higher Learning Commission (HLC) is an independent corporation and one of two Commission members of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools (NCA), which was founded in 1895 as one of six regional institutional accreditors in the United States. The Higher Learning Commission accredits, and thereby grants membership in the Commission and in the North Central Association, to degree-granting educational institutions in the North Central region: Arkansas, Arizona, Colorado, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, North Dakota, Nebraska, Ohio, Oklahoma, New Mexico, South Dakota, Wisconsin, West Virginia, and Wyoming.

HLC is recognized by the US Department of Education and the Council on Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA)."

source:
http://www.ncahlc.org/index.php

Wrong O comments:
One of several purposes listed on the Dept of Edu for assoication in an accreditation "corporation", federal funding!
Which if you re-read the article/ Federal Investigation listed eariler in the post, objectively, one might make the connection.
Re-read:
Summary & Back ground, please!
Adherence to New Homeland Security laws governing Federal Government reimbursement for degrees or courses from non accredited institutions.
Yes, the government investigators posing as a prospective student uncovered the practices use by listed Universities, business or corporations, however you choose to label a degree mill, to defraud the Fed.
I have not located the action taken by the Fed for those who hold a non-accredited degree.
Please provide your source.

I look forward to everyones reply!

Caveat Emptor 2 July 26, 2007 at 6:43 p.m.

Here is the link you requested showing where the government put a stop to the use of Kennedy Western degrees.

OPM ends diploma mill acceptance
Federal Computer Week May 14, 2004: "The Office of Personnel Management pulled the plug Thursday on using credentials from so-called diploma mills to qualify for a federal job and cut off tuition reimbursements to federal workers who take courses from those unaccredited institutions. In a strongly worded memo to federal managers, OPM Director Kay Coles James established a clear policy against using credentials from unaccredited institutions to get a job, a raise or reimbursement from the federal government for taking courses. 'There is no place in federal employment for degrees or credentials from diploma mills,' James wrote. 'They may not be used to qualify for federal jobs or salaries. You may not send employees to diploma mills for degree training or any other form of education. You may not reimburse employees for tuition associated with these schools. You may not use your authority to repay student loans if the degree is from a diploma mill.'"
¶ 5/14/2004 01:02:00 PM
Thursday, May 13, 2004
U.S. Officials Sport Fake Degrees
Wired News, May 13, 2004: "At least 28 high-ranking government officials, including three managers responsible for emergency operations at nuclear facilities, have fake degrees from so-called diploma mills, according to a government report issued Tuesday. The General Accounting Office, Congress' investigative arm, told a Senate committee Wednesday that it found 463 government employees who received degrees from three unaccredited schools: Kennedy-Western University, California Coast University and Pacific Western University."

States where it is illegal with link July 27, 2007 at 3:54 p.m.

Here are the 7 seven states where it is outright illegal (10 total with various restrictions) to use an unaccredited Kennedy Western / Warren National "degree".

"Is Oregon the only state that disallows use of unaccredited degrees?

No. It is also illegal in North Dakota, New Jersey, Texas, Nevada, Washington and Maine to use unaccredited degrees. It is illegal in Indiana to use an unaccredited doctorate and Michigan law limits the legal options of users. Illinois limits the use of unaccredited degrees to those licensed by other states.

See those states’ laws

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccred...

for details. Many other states are considering similar laws in order to prevent fraud."

WNU Student July 31, 2007 at 5:47 a.m.

Can someone explain to me why Warren National University does not have a chance for accredidation? They have a similar On-Line Program to a lot of other universities/colleges. How long does the accredidation process take?

WNU Student July 31, 2007 at 10:01 p.m.

Thanks for the Information. I don't understand or someone explain to me how a Unaccredidated Institution would tranish one's resume? When one applies for a Job in the Corporate/Private Sector, they don't ask whether it was from accredited or unaccredited institution? Rather, they want to verify that you have a degree, gpa, major. No?

If you put KW'S Behind and look at WNU as a New Institution, don't you think they have a chance for getting accredidation?

WNU Student August 2, 2007 at 4:42 a.m.

Would one be able to explain to me how studying at WNU would tarnish one's resume? When one applies for a Job, they are not asked whether you attended Unacreedited or Accredited Institution in corporate sector. Rather, do you have a degree or not.

WNU Student August 4, 2007 at 4:20 a.m.

Thanks for the information and guidance in clarifying the issue on/around acceptance of Unaccredited degree within corporate sector. Since you work for a major corporation adn within their HR Department, I was wondering, if additional details would be provided.

Do you know if similar policies are in place within Financial Sector, Investment Banks, Regional Banks, Etc?

Someone with over 6+ Years of a major Investment Bank Experience and WNU BS - Business Administration Degree on their Resume would be any issues? If one was trying to for other positions, would HR within those organizations have any issues?

Your assistance would be truly appreciated.

Really? August 4, 2007 at 3:26 p.m.

If somehow, you really got into a good company despite your unaccredited degree, my advise is to keep that job until you retire, keep your mouth about how you obtained your "degree", and don't apply internally or externally for anything that might trigger a background check and put your existing job in jeopardy.

To Potential Student: August 5, 2007 at 2:52 a.m.

Umm, read this entire thread or spend 3 minutes on Google and you'll see why you'd be throwing your money away.

If you still believe that WNU is the absolute best possible option for you, by all means apply. You're probably a few weeks away from getting a "degree".

Don't let the fact that there are hundreds of real, online, accredited universities out there offering that same major in the same format without the terms "Senate Hearing", "Type B Misdemeanor", "Illegal in some states", "Fraudulent or Substandard Institution with No Known Texas Connection", discourage you.

Wasabi August 9, 2007 at 3:36 a.m.

"The biased comment that "you can earn %40 of the credit at Kennedy-Western (Now Warren National) in 16) is not true"

Yes it is true. It is a part of Senate testimony that a government employee did just that. See above link.

"Now we have a new type of distance learning program which is internet based and a lot of people are bent out of shape."

There are hundreds of real, accredited distance learning programs out there. Kennedy / Warren is not one of them. I can't say it any more plainly.

To: States where it is illegal with link August 14, 2007 at 4:59 a.m.

You forgot to add that Kennedy Western / Warren National is banned from offering / advertising degrees in California, Oregon and ?? any other states??

Jackie August 16, 2007 at 1:58 p.m.

Why was my response not posted?

To Shingami August 17, 2007 at 3:46 a.m.

Shingami - Would you be able to provide details around what type of work you do and whether your employer accepted WNU Degree? How do you tackle cocnerns when one doess education verification adn they come to know that WNU is in process of being accredited?

Shinigami August 17, 2007 at 11:36 p.m.

Details? I am a Network Administrator for Matsushi-ta (deliberately mispelled to bypass the swear filter) Electronics Corporation. I have talked to my employers openly about my education and classwork. In fact, my company has approved my education even before I enrolled. For the most part, the issue of accredidation has never come up. In my line of work its really what you know that is important. I do believe that the education I received enabled me to become a better administrator. I still keep my textbooks and refer to them often.

I did read the testimony. What I know is that the investigator was an officer in the Coast Guard (if I remember correctly). She claims to have taken, what was it four exams and got 40% of her classes completed. And it was in two days.

I do not know how it was done. There was no explaination of what method was used. If there were it was not part of the record.

All I can tell you is that the least amount of time I spent taking a class from beginning to end was about 7 weeks and that was taking only one course at a time and concentrating only on that one course.

I am not saying that what this witness said is not true. Just that I do not know how it was done. If she did find a shortcut than I do not know what it was. Maybe the Univesity needs to be made aware of this.

Ganju Shiba August 19, 2007 at 8:25 p.m.

To LOL:

You gave a brief review, if you would call it that about the University (and it is a real University and not "so called").

My only question is, did YOU attend this school? If not than you are not qualified to make that statement.

Here are the facts:

WNU operates legally. The school is licensed by the State of Wyoming.

WNU is an applicant for accreditation.

The degrees are NOT easy to get. You do not merely send money and get some bogus diploma in the mail. You need to earn it.

No reputable employer you say? I think if you were to ask any graduate if their employer accepted a Warren National degree they would give you a different answer.

And the only joke is that someone like you would make these statements knowing nothing about what you are talking about.

I suggest you research your topic a bit more before making statements like this.

Wyoming - haven for unaccredited "universities" August 19, 2007 at 10:17 p.m.

"Wyoming * Weak law and poor enforcement allowed state to fill with unaccredited suppliers. Political interference exacerbated this problem. The 2006 Wyoming legislature passed a new law requiring eventual accreditation, which should solve the problem in a couple of years."

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccred...

Quick Answer August 24, 2007 at 5:10 a.m.

No. Only other unaccredited universities will even consider it.

Chris is funny... August 25, 2007 at 1:45 a.m.

"mid career professionals who do not have time under any circumstances sit in a classroom."

Those busy people can spend the same amount of time and money and get a regionally accredited degree, there are hundreds of options.

"A lot of schools are not accredited"

Complete lie. Most people can name hundreds of real, accredited universities. Only a few (those in higher ed and HR) can name a few unaccredited timebombs they've run across.

"I am the CEO of a major coroporation"

No, you are not. Entry level jobs are checked for accredited education credentials. CEO's of major corps are run through the ringer.

Robert Fuller, PhD August 28, 2007 at 4:21 a.m.

Robert Fuller, PhD June 15, 2007 at 3:51 p.m.

The debate over accredited versus non-accredited came up all the time when I worked for the U.S. Department of Education. Because the academic world sees the nature of degrees versus experiences from a different perspective than does the workforce, neither is willing to budge much on their stance. And here's why: Statistics show that 60% of those who attend college, whether they be traditional universities, online universities, unaccredited or accredited, never actually use what they learned or were supposed to have been taught after they graduate from college. They use the degree to get in the door, end up doing something totally different or unrelated to their educational background, and actually do quite well. Statistics also show that 43% of new hirees are retrained to do their jobs using concepts vastly differently from what they learned in college. The shocking statistic was the number of employers who actually verify educational credentials when hiring someone. Only about 25% of employers actually check the educational credentials of new employees. The other 75% base their hiring practices on experience and word-of-mouth referrals (opinions) of your references or previous supervisors. But of course, they don't tell potential employees that.

A friend of mine who sat on regional and national accrediting bodies for probably 15 years told me "accredited or nonaccredited, it's all about money and poeple keeping their jobs these days; school officials will promise or say anything to the accrediting bodies these days to keep their doors open." I'm inclined to believe him at this point because I've seen some accredited institutions that should never have been opened!

Just some thoughts...

Robert

To Ho Hum August 28, 2007 at 6:11 p.m.

It seems that you have an expertise on/around the verificaiton process in the HR Department. What is your take on corporations veryifying degrees with institutions such as Warren National University? Do they Hire Candidates? If Candidates have 5+ Years of Experience, MBA from this University, will they be given a job?

JR August 29, 2007 at 6:58 p.m.

All of those here bashing KWU/WNU are nothing more than ignorant blithering idiots. You have no FACTS to base your statements. Government inquiry? PLEASE, all smoke and mirrors.

1. Being Accredited is voluntary and NOT subject to US law.

2. To be accredited means that you pay a ton of money to some commission and become part of the 'Good ol boys club". These commissions have been around for a long long time and are getting "pissy" when something newer and better comes along and don't want to play in the commissions sandbox. It is the same as the record labels and the online music downloads out there. WAAA!

Who was the idiot that said they work in HR at a large corporation? oh, yes, To WNU (what an original name) I know of many companies that accept a degree from this institution. In fact a friend of mine is the CIO of a large, multi-state eye care practice. He attended KW, and was promoted to CIO AFTER getting his degree.

The bottom line is like Robert Fuller above stated, it all comes down to money. Paying BIG bucks to be part of the "Good ol boys club" PERIOD.

JR August 29, 2007 at 7:22 p.m.

One further thing.

Oregon was sued by KWU/WNU and the two settled out of court.

They agreed that KWU/WNU will not be classified as a "diploma mill", State of Oregon employees may not use KWU/WNU(as is the right of ANY employer), residents MAY use KWU/WNU on their resumes.

You can read it all here: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0...

All of you bashers are just that, bashers.

Bashers=People who make incorrect statements based on ignorance and/or feeling. Complete lack of logic. Loosers. Whiners. Blithering idiots.

To JR August 29, 2007 at 9:28 p.m.

You sound like someone of virtue and make decision based on facts. I would like to hear factually from someone how education is verified within the HR Organizations? When they verify, do they make a big stiff, if school is accredited or unaccredited?

Correcting JR with verifiable source August 30, 2007 at 4:59 a.m.

"1. Being Accredited is voluntary and NOT subject to US law."

Here are the 7 seven states where it is outright illegal (10 total with various restrictions) to use an unaccredited Kennedy Western / Warren National "degree".

"Is Oregon the only state that disallows use of unaccredited degrees?

No. It is also illegal in North Dakota, New Jersey, Texas, Nevada, Washington and Maine to use unaccredited degrees. It is illegal in Indiana to use an unaccredited doctorate and Michigan law limits the legal options of users. Illinois limits the use of unaccredited degrees to those licensed by other states.

See those states’ laws

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccred......

for details. Many other states are considering similar laws in order to prevent fraud."

JR August 30, 2007 at 4:21 p.m.

To: Correcting JR with verifiable source.

No need for correction, except for your post.

I stated US law, not STATE law.

Accreditation is VOLUNTARY.

States are free to pass laws as they wish.

It all comes back to an institution willing to pay the ridiculously amount of money so as to join the "Good Ol Boy" club.

How competent HR departments background check August 30, 2007 at 6:50 p.m.

The National Student Clearinghouse does not even have all the accredited universities on that list. I had attend a institution that has bene accredited by Middle States Association, Association of Collegiate Business Schools and Program and International Assembly for Collegiate Business Education.

In this circumstance, if candidate has presented the institution to HR and not on this clearinghouse. Than, how would the degree get validated? Would they not offer the candidate the position?

To JR: August 31, 2007 at 6:14 a.m.

I do agree with JR's point, that it's a shame that there isn't a single national law to deal with this issue.

Instead individual states and their consumer protection departments are left to fend for themselves. So until all 50 states have something in place, it's pretty easy to relocate to the states with the weakest education regulations.

Interesting Article on Kennedy Western August 31, 2007 at 7:47 p.m.

"It May Take Hours, But You Too Can Earn a University Degree"

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian...

The Oregonian Newspaper 7/4/04

C2 September 1, 2007 at 6:50 p.m.

I agree with JR

"Therefore, the individual needs to take responsibility and due their due diligence when selecting a college/university to attend."

Completely agree. If you truly perform due diligence, and are okay with the severe limitations, senate investigation, unaccredited status, inability to gain licensure, and in a growing number states where it is legal to use a WNU degree, plus the existence of hundreds of comparable, real accredited programs out there, go ahead and buy a WNU degree.

To poster above, post your major, and I'm sure someone can recommend a dozen good programs for you to attain your degree completely online, with accreditation.

Dr J. Bear September 4, 2007 at 1:35 a.m.

Inside scoop is that they will be accredited before 2009. Likely Fall/winter 2008.

Why September 4, 2007 at 4:07 a.m.

were there no accredited Universities before 1951? How did our nation survive? Oh how?

Oh that is right, ALL UNIVERSITIES were substandard prior to alcohol binge drinking, sex, drugs etc.
Accreditation, which happened curiously around the same time as LSD introduction, and communist teaching on campus does beg the question----Is it possible WNU standards will have to be lowered to get accreditation? You bet. That and a little grease money into the pockets of politicians.

To: <2% September 4, 2007 at 1:14 p.m.

I doubt you have a link for anything above. It directly contradicts what those seven states have passed into their laws. That kind of misrepresentation is very easy to disprove in 15 seconds of Googling. For example in Texas:

Institutions Whose Degrees are Illegal to Use in Texas

"Fraudulent or substandard degree" means a degree conferred in Texas in violation of the Texas Education Code; conferred in another state in violation of that state's laws; conferred in another state by an institution that was not accredited by an accreditor recognized by the Coordinating Board... (Texas Educational Code, Chapter 61, Section 61.302)

The Texas Penal Code (Section 32.52) prohibits the use of fraudulent or substandard degrees "in a written or oral advertisement or other promotion of a business; or with the intent to: obtain employment; obtain a license or certificate to practice a trade, profession, or occupation; obtain a promotion, a compensation or other benefit, or an increase in compensation or other benefit, in employment or in the practice of a trade, profession, or occupation; obtain admission to an educational program in this state; or gain a position in government with authority over another person, regardless of whether the actor receives compensation for the position." Violation of this law is a Class B misdemeanor.

http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/AAR/Private...

TO 2% & Recap September 4, 2007 at 6:40 p.m.

Do you know what the limitations are in the state of New Jersey?

Even with the Texas law, how come they allow private institutions to exist within their states?

love it homer September 5, 2007 at 3:15 a.m.

Loved the website.
I hate Texas.
The website is an insight into the back-woods hick arrogant cow-boy types that live there. I do feel bad for 99.98%. Maybe you picked a bad example for a state. Does Michigan have something you can quote against WNU? Better come up with something or you will become 50.001%.
Sorry ):. Next time spend a few minutes researching.

Texas example, per you request September 5, 2007 at 4:59 a.m.

Another verifiable Kennedy Western success story

"When Elected Officials Aren't What They Seem

Texas officials and Pennsylvania cats tout misleading credentials"

Excerpted:

"Identity deception can take many forms. A diploma mill degree, for example, may cause employers and taxpayers to assume a candidates credentials are genuine. Unless the deception is discovered, diploma mill customers adorn their identities with unearned titles before and after their name. Last year, Dallas based Trinity Southern University awarded a Masters degree to a Pennsylvania cat."

"News for Public Officials has learned that one well-known Texas County Clerk serving on the Supreme Court’s "Judicial Committee on Information Technology" Task Force claims a Ph.D. from a Wyoming school the United States General Accounting Office defines as a diploma mill.

Before she obtained her degree from Kennedy-Western and began calling herself Dr. Dianne Wilson, PhD, a Grand Jury indicted the Fort Bend County Clerk on charges she used taxpayer money to partially finance a Bachelor Degree from St. Edwards University and Certificates from the National Center for State Courts’ Institute for Court Management. (St. Edwards and the NCSC are accredited)

Kennedy-Western apparently accepted Wilson’s Certificates from the NCSC: Institute for Court Management as the equivalent of a Master’s Degree. The NCSC does not offer Master's degrees.

Wilson is not the only government official to claim advanced degrees from diploma mills or to put the title “Dr.” in front of their name after buying a degree from an unaccredited school."

http://www.davickservices.com/Some%20Off...

To all KWU/WNU bashers September 5, 2007 at 2:02 p.m.

I would like to see where any official government website SPECIFICALLY states that KWU/WNU is a "diploma mill".

A "diploma mill" is where one pays money and gets a piece of paper in the mail saying "Diploma".

I do not see any information on the US DoE site.

I do see a link to National Association of State Administrators and Supervisors of Private Schools (http://www.nasasps.com), which shows members and links to state licensing agencies, and lo and behold! there is Wyoming! and guess what? Wyoming has granted a license to WNU, and even to the University of Wyoming! WOW!

Basically all of you bashers are nothing more that the ignorant lapdogs for, as JR above put it, the "Good ol Boy" institutions.

WNU has top notch professors from universities across the nation and requires the students to do work and take tests.

Caveat Emptor September 5, 2007 at 6:19 p.m.

"There are a few legitimate institutions that have not pursued accreditation."

But there are thousands that have, and offer the exact same online programs as Warren National "University"

To: Caveat Emptor September 5, 2007 at 6:28 p.m.

If there are thousands that are accredited and offer "the exact same online programs" as WNU, then what is the difference?

ONE thing: Refusal to pay the rediculous amount of money to the "good ol Boy" club. Since they have refused to pay, they have been attacked by every means available to the pompous Academia and Educrats to knock them down.

Caveat Emptor September 6, 2007 at 4:35 a.m.

"If there are thousands that are accredited and offer "the exact same online programs" as WNU, then what is the difference?"

Directly from the Federal Trade Commission Article you posted, answers your question:

"Colleges and universities accredited by legitimate organizations undergo a rigorous review of the quality of their educational programs."

"Diploma Mills: Degrees of Deception"
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer......

To: Caveat Emptor September 6, 2007 at 12:14 p.m.

You have still not answered the question, if they are EXACTLY the same, then there is NO difference in the programs, except for accreditation.

Since accreditation is nothing more than joining the "Good ol Boys" club for a rediculous amount of money that provides absolutely NO real service in return, again I ask, what is the difference?

THERE IS NONE!

NOt until the middle of the last century was there any "accreditation" of schools. My My, what did we do before then? I guess all the great Leaders, business men/women, inventors, etc had substandard, worthless degrees because the schools they attended, Harvard, Yale, Stanford and others were not accredited.

Those that sit here and waste their breath how a school is not accredited is using flawed logic and have no argument.

WNU offeres the same courses as other "accredited" institutions using professors part-time from other "accredited" institutions. They are a quality institution that has unfortunately been lumped in with all of the diploma scams that are out there.

Until someone can provide some logical, factual data to back up their argument instead of "because I said so" then keep your traps shut.

The End September 6, 2007 at 11:55 p.m.

“You have still not answered the question, if they are EXACTLY the same, then there is NO difference in the programs, except for accreditation.”

You finally got it! It's the accreditation that separates them.

So, by FTC guidelines, "Colleges and universities accredited by legitimate organizations undergo a rigorous review of the quality of their educational programs."

Unaccredited “universities” have no such 3rd party quality review, no accountability, no oversight, no way to verify how much or how little students do to earn a “degree”. Take a look at what unaccredited universities have done recently:

Unaccredited Trinity Southern University issues a degree to a cat. (3.5 GPA!)
http://www.nbc10.com/money/3975070/detai...

Unaccredited Concordia College and University issues a degree to a dog.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17398521/

Unaccredited Rochville University can deliver your degree in 3-5 business days

Unaccredited Almeda University will grant you a degree for life experience

Unaccredited Kennedy Western University had a student who earned 40% of her Master’s degree in 16 hours of study (Senate Hearing)

Unaccredited Hamilton University conferred a doctorate, based primarily on a 4 page paper, to a gal in Homeland Security!

And those are only a few of the cases that made the paper. Who knows what multiple of that were discovered and handled quietly to avoid public embarrassment, and those waiting to be discovered.

To: The End September 7, 2007 at 2:36 a.m.

So then what was the quality of education from these Colleges and Universities before the 1950's when the accreditation bodies came to be?

By your statement then, Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford, UCLA, Duke, Notre Dame, and the plethora of other institutions were nothing more than diploma mills, for there was no 3d party to regulate them.

Once again, accreditation entities are nothing more than "Good ol Boy" clubs that rape the educational institutions by extorting huge amounts of money so as to "verify" their educational programs.

Directly from CHEA September 7, 2007 at 2:56 a.m.

11. Q. What if an institution or program is not accredited? Does that mean
it’s bad?

A. Not necessarily, but it does mean one should review as much information
as possible about the institution before enrollment. An institution or program
may be new and may not have met minimum standards to even be
considered eligible for accreditation. If an institution or program is not
accredited, it should have some other means of quality review.

Q. Shouldn’t there be a separate standard in the law to review distance
learning?

A. Right now, institutional and programmatic accrediting organizations are
effectively reviewing distance learning within the framework of the agreement
reached with USDE and the Congress during the 1998 reauthorization:
distance learning is considered part of the scope of accrediting
organizations if they had been reviewing distance learning prior to 1998.
At this time, there does not appear to be a need for a separate standard.
However, as new types of education offerings—e.g., online non-degree
options from providers that are not affiliated with any accredited entity—
become more and more available, accrediting organizations may need to
consider whether they should be examining the quality of these offerings
as well. And, this may involve consideration of a separate standard.

http://www.chea.org/pdf/fund_accred_20qu...

To Potential Student: September 7, 2007 at 3:08 a.m.

Don't waste your time, money or career there. This very site has dozens of good, accredited, online options.

If you can afford it, one of the best is Penn State - World University.

For a value, try Fort Hayes State or Peru State (Nebraska)

To Wyoming State Law September 7, 2007 at 4:49 a.m.

The question I have is than why did the president of WNU (Mr. Saltman) testify at the hearings in support of the Accredidation.

Why has the university taken step for the accredidation? From Accredidation perspective, explain to me, why this school wouldn't receive accredidation?

To Potential Student September 7, 2007 at 8:20 p.m.

There are so many good, accredited online MBA programs out there, it is almost overwhelming to compare them all. Here are a few to look at to get you started, but keep in mind there are dozens and dozens more to choose from.

Franklin University
Davenport University Online
Baker College
Kaplan University
University of Phoenix (too expensive in my mind)
Peru State (one of the cheaper options mentioned above)
Fort Hays State (low cost)
DeVry University
Penn State World (Penn State name, and online too!)
University of Maryland – UC
Nova Southeastern
Central Michigan
Boise State

So, it really depends on which of the big three factors you are looking to maximize (Name recognition, cost, accreditation)

*The name recognition ones such as Penn State can be a great find.

*The no-name low cost ones are no frills, but great when the next promotion / offer requires an Accredited master’s.

*Most of these are only regionally accredited, which will guarantee universal acceptance, but recently some of the top companies like HP have required AACSB (business school accreditation) on top of that to be eligible for tuition reimbursement. These are the toughest, most rigourous accreditation / programs out there.

*I personally would avoid anything that is only nationally accredited, such as DETC accredited schools. Although it is a real accreditation, and your employer can verify it as being accredited during routine background checks, you can run into some problems using this degree. I say that as an Accountant, as it won’t allow you to become a CPA in most states.

Congrats on looking to further your education and taking the time to ensure you select a quality, accredited program.

SuperStudent September 12, 2007 at 4:34 a.m.

has anyone gotten a real job using a wnu degree? if you can actually get a job using this degree, then i could understand why ppl still apply. If not then it seems utterly useless and a complete waste of time and money.

Re Super Student September 13, 2007 at 3:43 a.m.

My WNU Degree did help me get a promotion within my company. My employer recommended this University in fact.

Regarding the above" September 19, 2007 at 5:44 a.m.

I am at Matsush ita, the world's largest electronic corporation. We are best know for Panasonic but we also have other divisions.

Re: Confused September 21, 2007 at 3:36 a.m.

When the University gets Accredidation in 2008, you will not have any issues around credentials. If you are looking for a degree for purpose of credentials, why not try out one of the Diploma Mills such as Almeda University? No Education, No Studying, Just Pay Flat Fee and Great Certificate to Hang on your wall. What do you say?

Re: Confused? September 21, 2007 at 4:57 a.m.

You would be able to use this as a credential on the resume. Honestly speaking, you will not have any issues.

J. Bovin September 22, 2007 at 2:55 a.m.

Wow,

A whole bunch of ugly and upset folks here,,,, seeming to have some real issues with WNU/KWU. If it was as bad as what most everyone says it is,,,,, why don't our wonderfull goverment shut it down???

Well, here is my thoughts. When wanting to get into a safety engineering program the only one that came up was KWU/WNU. After phoning them and getting some references in the state that I live, I was impressed. Some of the ones given were:

Three Area Hospitals
Pulp & Paper Mills

and a few others.

After calling them, everyone seemed very pleased with the experence.

So I decided to send in my $50.00 and filled out the necessary paperwork & got moving forward.

One of the first things required was that I had to take a GERE. Being out of school for 30 years, I didn't fair so well. Around five days latter, I recieved a phone call that my $50.00 was being returned and and was told I did have what it took inregards to the math that was required in the area of study that I wanted.

After speaking with them, they required that I take a math course and pass with an acceptable grade and retake the GERE,,, I retook the test and passed with acceptable marks.

After going through the entire KWU/WNU program, I couldn't believe what I had learned, which improved my knowledge and
self-confidence and increased my earnings incredibly.

People can say what they want about "Accredidation". I graduated for an "Accredited" school, my High School to be exact, and there were people getting the same diploma that I got that couldn't:

* Read
* Write
* Do simple math

In a matter of fact, I worked with a fellow that got his high school diploma from another local high school that when signing his paycheck, he had to lay his drivers license down next to the line on the check and copy his name. OOOPs another "Accredited" institution.

Say what you want, I am proud of my degree. I worked for 17 months and three weeks to obtain it, and here is the good thing, I use the knowledge in my work everyday. It is
working for me & my family.

So while you people a beating up Warren Nation University I'm sitting back laughing. You may be like the bulk of the people in our wonderfull society with your "Accredited" degree, not even using it because you can't find a job in the field you studied in.

I went to a unaccredited university and am making $84,000.00
per year, and using my degree!!

Have a great life,,,,,,,,, I am.

Correcting JBovin September 23, 2007 at 2:17 p.m.

"GERE. Being out of school for 30 years, I didn't fair so well. Around five days latter, I recieved a phone call that my $50.00 was being returned and and was told I did have what it took inregards to the math that was required in the area of study that I wanted.

After speaking with them, they required that I take a math course and pass with an acceptable grade and retake the GERE,,, I retook the test and passed with acceptable marks."

Just to set the record straight, my experience was much different.

A) I was accepted without any exam scores. WNU does not require them, period. Look at their catalog.
B) They waived a healthy chunk of my requirements (> 40%) based on my work experience. I still have my degree plan that shows this.
C) It's the GRE exam, not a GERE, at least know the name of the exam you supposedly took.

reply: To: J. Bovin September 25, 2007 at 6:08 p.m.

Why did they move?

Simple.

The Liberal Academia Educrats felt threatened. Anytime an educational institution with a better way to provide an education comes along, they (Academia) will start screaming anything and everything until something sticks, like "Diploma Mill"

"Accredidation" has been around for a short time in this country, created by the liberal Academia buffoons, with help from the idiots in the media to spread the word.

"Voluntary" accreditation arguments debunked September 26, 2007 at 5:56 a.m.

From US Gov

Frequently Asked Questions about diploma mills, fraudulent degrees, and accreditation. Among other things:

Accreditation is “voluntary,” so doesn't that mean it is optional and not necessary?

Accreditation is voluntary in that the process of accreditation requires the full cooperation with and complete participation in the process of accreditation by the college or university seeking accreditation. At the heart of the accreditation process is a self-study prepared by the college or university demonstrating its commitment to the standards of accreditation.

Since accreditation is the PRIMARY means of determining the legitimacy and quality of colleges and universities in the United States, to describe the process as "voluntary" is not to describe it as "optional" or "unnecessary."

No September 28, 2007 at 12:27 p.m.

Nobody is certain if they are serious about accreditation. They haven't made the cut in 24 years.

They have applied for it because they state they are located in forced them to.

If they are indeed serious, and they make massive changes to their large "life experience" awards, 1 day open book exam grad courses, cut all their substandard programs, etc, still probably 2010 at the absolute soonest.

No September 28, 2007 at 5:56 p.m.

"Give up to 30 Credits for Work Experience. Many Many Universities do this"

Name one legitimate school that will give a year of college credit for nothing. WNU will give you one year for "work experience", other unaccredited schools like Rochville will give you 3 or 4 years.

"but their Wyoming License expries in 2008"

I'm not positive, but I thought I read they just had to APPLY by 2007, so I think they won't be forced out of state again, as long as they are still an applicant.

Re: NO September 28, 2007 at 9:04 p.m.

As for the 30 Credits Trasnferred from Accredited University, I have listed one below.

Strayer University

www.strayer.edu - Gives Credit for Life Experience

Work/Life Experience
Undergraduate students may be able to receive credit for their work or life experience; more information on this process is available through your Admissions Officer or Academic Advisor.

Ashworth University

www.ashworthuniversity.edu

Bachelor’s Degree
You may receive credit for up to 75% of your degree program as a combination of transfer credits from other institutions and life/work experience. Life/work experience credit is limited to 30 credits: 15 credits for general education courses and 15 credits for core and/or concentration courses. Credits must be no more than ten years old and be from an accredited institution.

Ashworth University is an Accredited Member of the Distance Education and Training Council, The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS), The Commission on International and Trans-Regional Accreditation (CITA). Also, Ashworth University meets the requirements of the Georgia Nonpublic Postsecondary Education Commission to offer instruction in career programs, associate, bachelor's and master's degree programs.

------------------------------------------------------------
American Sentinel University
http://www.americansentinel.edu

American Sentinel University recognizes that many students have already established and achieved substantial professional goals. We acknowledge students' life and work experience by awarding up to 30 credits toward the completion of the general education curriculum requirements.

Students may receive a total of up to 90 hours credit through a combination of credits transferred from other universities, for specific professional certifications, and credit awarded for life and work experience.

American Sentinel University is accredited by the Distance Education and Training Council. The Accrediting Commission of the Distance Education and Training Council is listed by the U.S. Department of Education as a nationally recognized accrediting agency and is a recognized member of the Council for Higher Education Accreditation.

------------------------------------------------------------

With all this said and being an accredited US Institution, are they also a Diploma Mill? Looking at them, Warren National Makes their policies upfront, rather than being sneaky. Whats the big deal?

Based on this, don't you think WNU should be accredited also? They are following the same requirements as these universities. There are plenty of more out there.

Question September 29, 2007 at 4:01 a.m.

What's the difference between unaccredited and diploma mill? Aren't they the same thing, but one is just more polite?