Warren National University

Joyce February 7, 2007 at 6:24 p.m.

Good to see that Kennedy Western has changed their name to try and bury their past while still offering meaningless degrees for cash.

What a horrible institution

Texas April 11, 2007 at 11:39 a.m.

The State of Texas calls Warren National "University" a:

Fraudulent or Substandard Institution with No Known Texas Connection

Fraudulent or substandard degree" means a degree conferred in Texas in violation of the Texas Education Code

http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/AAR/Private......

Kevin April 24, 2007 at 4:42 a.m.

No need to try the courses. My employer, the school I would like to get an MBA from, and the Department of Education have all already told me that it won't be considered for promotions / won't be accepted in transfer / is unaccredited.

Even the much maligned University of Phoenix and the completely unknown Fort Hayes State are much better options.

To prospective Student May 4, 2007 at 4:59 a.m.

As far as I know, Warren National is offering the same programs as Kennedy Western, so it should be available. I think all that changed was the name.

Good luck!
You are 40 hours away from a Warren MBA!

Lawson May 25, 2007 at 9:53 p.m.

John,

This school has no chance of gaining regional accredidation. Do not waste your time/Money on any program they have to offer.

Just print one June 18, 2007 at 8:38 p.m.

Don't waste your money on this school. If you must go this route, print one off yourself, it has the same value as a WNU degree and will hold up to any scrutiny just as well, without paying the $$$$.

F Y I June 29, 2007 at 7:34 p.m.

I busted my hump EARNING my PhD from KW. My family and I sacrificed heavily in time, hard work, and finances to EARN this degree. The knowledge and experience gained far outweigh the cost.

Interesting to note; of the distinguished "investigators" that prepared the GAO report, none have an advanced degree.

Rolo July 3, 2007 at 1:19 p.m.

"Interesting to note; of the distinguished "investigators" that prepared the GAO report, none have an advanced degree."

And neither do you if you attended Kennedy Western / Warren National

To M: July 9, 2007 at 5:45 p.m.

Sorry to hear you got scammed. Can you protest it on your credit card or through your better business bureau?

To Robbie: July 12, 2007 at 9:30 p.m.

"Many employers accept KW degree"

I would rephrase that as "some employers do not verify educational credentials properly"

See:
George O'Leary (Notre Dame football coach)
Sandra Baldwin (US Olympic committee)
The 463 government employees holding KWU and other unaccredited "degrees" who were terminated or disciplined in the Senate investigation.

etc
etc

To Jason: July 20, 2007 at 3:49 a.m.

"Accredited" is a word used by the education system of this country to justify the exorbitant and outrageous costs of a college education."

Funny thing is that Warren National costs on average or more than a real, accredited school, so I don't get your point. Did all those Senate Hearings and lawsuits raise the price?

Jason July 22, 2007 at 4:13 p.m.

"Funny thing is that Warren National costs on average or more than a real, accredited school, so I don't get your point. Did all those Senate Hearings and lawsuits raise the price?"

You obviously have no idea about education costs in this country. Kaplan was more than Warren National and my traditional "brick and mortar" classroom courses dwarfed the per-credit hour price of Kaplan And Warren National. At $350/hr (which is generously low) and 62 hours required for an associates, this would work out to $21,700 just for tuition. Kaplan and Warren are nowhere near this cost. I understand math is not everyone's strong suit. An apology is not necessary on your part.

WNU Student July 24, 2007 at 3:05 a.m.

To Lawson:

Why doesn't WNU have a chance for accredidation?

Bryan July 25, 2007 at 7:31 a.m.

Thanks for you observations and comments!
Sorry I have to ask.

"I'm glad you learned something and I agree with the life-long learning sentiment. However, you have a "degree" from a business that accepts 100% of students, graduates 100% of students, and from the Senate testimony, requires very little effort and is unaccredited. What does that say to a potential employer? "

Are you basing your observation solely on what’s in the government article? http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04771t.pdf...
The purpose of this probe was to identify accounting fraud in the Federal Goverment, during the investigation it also uncovered that their are programs, or should I say and procedures for obtaining a degree other than accredited intuitions.
You make several assumption in your summary and in point 1 & 2.

I assume that you are a graduate of an accreditated instuition!

How do you validate your education to a potential employer?
I assume again, GPA, transcripts, education verification from the instution.
If I am correct; So far we go about it the same way!

By easy to obtain if you are referring to working a full time job 8~12 hours a day, coming home passing pleasantries’ with my family then hitting the books for 3 to 4 hours, including 4~7 hours Sat&Sun for 3 years.
Then yes it was easy!
Prior to the start of this program an investigation was undertaken via the internet, Department of Education and also the state which provided the school its license to issue degrees.
It was clear that this program was not accredited!
Further I learned that accreditation is a "voluntary" association not mandated by the Federal Government or
by all States but rather pressure is applied by the target market and intuitions issuing degrees to meet the same standards.
It appears that business (Universities) and the Federal Government are attempting and to equate non accreditation status as degree mills.

I agree one should not be allowed to buy a piece of paper, earning it is a total different issue.

I wish you well in your travels.

Best Regards,
Bryan

Me 2 July 25, 2007 at 2:09 p.m.

My point is that you have to go to an independent 3rd party to verify the usefullness of any certification / license / degree. Those independent 3rd parties are accreditors, state licensure boards, national student clearing house, faculty accreditation requirements etc.

Having a non independent degree or transcript from Warren National is meaningless, since nobody will vouch that it has any academic meaning.

For example, you can get a degree and a transcript from Rochville University (unaccredited like Warren National / Kennedy Western) at: http://www.affordabledegrees.com/

No Studies
No Attendance No Waiting
No Examinations
No Hefty Fee
On the basis of what you already know, you can now qualify for an accredited degree that is accepted and recognized worldwide for as little as $199. Order now and receive your degree in just 5 days!

Bryan July 26, 2007 at 7:58 a.m.

Thanks again for you comments;
I would ask that you read the first chapter and more from the Dept of Education concerning Degree Mill's!
Also note in the article the use of the term "recognized"!

http://www.ed.gov/students/prep/college/...

"What is a diploma mill? The dictionary defines a diploma mill as:

An institution of higher education operating without supervision of a state or professional agency and granting diplomas which are either fraudulent or because of the lack of proper standards worthless. - Webster's Third New International Dictionary "
source:
http://www.ed.gov/students/prep/college/...

Further:

"Accreditation in the United States is a voluntary, non-governmental process, in which an institution and its programs are evaluated against standards for measuring quality".
source:
http://www.ed.gov/students/prep/college/...

Also while attempting to make my way thru the govermental info I looked up the accreditiation "corporation" that WNU has made an application.

" What is the Higher Learning Commission?
The Higher Learning Commission (HLC) is an independent corporation and one of two Commission members of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools (NCA), which was founded in 1895 as one of six regional institutional accreditors in the United States. The Higher Learning Commission accredits, and thereby grants membership in the Commission and in the North Central Association, to degree-granting educational institutions in the North Central region: Arkansas, Arizona, Colorado, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, North Dakota, Nebraska, Ohio, Oklahoma, New Mexico, South Dakota, Wisconsin, West Virginia, and Wyoming.

HLC is recognized by the US Department of Education and the Council on Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA)."

source:
http://www.ncahlc.org/index.php

Wrong O comments:
One of several purposes listed on the Dept of Edu for assoication in an accreditation "corporation", federal funding!
Which if you re-read the article/ Federal Investigation listed eariler in the post, objectively, one might make the connection.
Re-read:
Summary & Back ground, please!
Adherence to New Homeland Security laws governing Federal Government reimbursement for degrees or courses from non accredited institutions.
Yes, the government investigators posing as a prospective student uncovered the practices use by listed Universities, business or corporations, however you choose to label a degree mill, to defraud the Fed.
I have not located the action taken by the Fed for those who hold a non-accredited degree.
Please provide your source.

I look forward to everyones reply!

Caveat Emptor 2 July 26, 2007 at 6:43 p.m.

Here is the link you requested showing where the government put a stop to the use of Kennedy Western degrees.

OPM ends diploma mill acceptance
Federal Computer Week May 14, 2004: "The Office of Personnel Management pulled the plug Thursday on using credentials from so-called diploma mills to qualify for a federal job and cut off tuition reimbursements to federal workers who take courses from those unaccredited institutions. In a strongly worded memo to federal managers, OPM Director Kay Coles James established a clear policy against using credentials from unaccredited institutions to get a job, a raise or reimbursement from the federal government for taking courses. 'There is no place in federal employment for degrees or credentials from diploma mills,' James wrote. 'They may not be used to qualify for federal jobs or salaries. You may not send employees to diploma mills for degree training or any other form of education. You may not reimburse employees for tuition associated with these schools. You may not use your authority to repay student loans if the degree is from a diploma mill.'"
¶ 5/14/2004 01:02:00 PM
Thursday, May 13, 2004
U.S. Officials Sport Fake Degrees
Wired News, May 13, 2004: "At least 28 high-ranking government officials, including three managers responsible for emergency operations at nuclear facilities, have fake degrees from so-called diploma mills, according to a government report issued Tuesday. The General Accounting Office, Congress' investigative arm, told a Senate committee Wednesday that it found 463 government employees who received degrees from three unaccredited schools: Kennedy-Western University, California Coast University and Pacific Western University."

States where it is illegal with link July 27, 2007 at 3:54 p.m.

Here are the 7 seven states where it is outright illegal (10 total with various restrictions) to use an unaccredited Kennedy Western / Warren National "degree".

"Is Oregon the only state that disallows use of unaccredited degrees?

No. It is also illegal in North Dakota, New Jersey, Texas, Nevada, Washington and Maine to use unaccredited degrees. It is illegal in Indiana to use an unaccredited doctorate and Michigan law limits the legal options of users. Illinois limits the use of unaccredited degrees to those licensed by other states.

See those states’ laws

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccred...

for details. Many other states are considering similar laws in order to prevent fraud."

WNU Student July 31, 2007 at 5:47 a.m.

Can someone explain to me why Warren National University does not have a chance for accredidation? They have a similar On-Line Program to a lot of other universities/colleges. How long does the accredidation process take?

WNU Student July 31, 2007 at 10:01 p.m.

Thanks for the Information. I don't understand or someone explain to me how a Unaccredidated Institution would tranish one's resume? When one applies for a Job in the Corporate/Private Sector, they don't ask whether it was from accredited or unaccredited institution? Rather, they want to verify that you have a degree, gpa, major. No?

If you put KW'S Behind and look at WNU as a New Institution, don't you think they have a chance for getting accredidation?

WNU Student August 2, 2007 at 4:42 a.m.

Would one be able to explain to me how studying at WNU would tarnish one's resume? When one applies for a Job, they are not asked whether you attended Unacreedited or Accredited Institution in corporate sector. Rather, do you have a degree or not.

WNU Student August 4, 2007 at 4:20 a.m.

Thanks for the information and guidance in clarifying the issue on/around acceptance of Unaccredited degree within corporate sector. Since you work for a major corporation adn within their HR Department, I was wondering, if additional details would be provided.

Do you know if similar policies are in place within Financial Sector, Investment Banks, Regional Banks, Etc?

Someone with over 6+ Years of a major Investment Bank Experience and WNU BS - Business Administration Degree on their Resume would be any issues? If one was trying to for other positions, would HR within those organizations have any issues?

Your assistance would be truly appreciated.

Really? August 4, 2007 at 3:26 p.m.

If somehow, you really got into a good company despite your unaccredited degree, my advise is to keep that job until you retire, keep your mouth about how you obtained your "degree", and don't apply internally or externally for anything that might trigger a background check and put your existing job in jeopardy.

To Potential Student: August 5, 2007 at 2:52 a.m.

Umm, read this entire thread or spend 3 minutes on Google and you'll see why you'd be throwing your money away.

If you still believe that WNU is the absolute best possible option for you, by all means apply. You're probably a few weeks away from getting a "degree".

Don't let the fact that there are hundreds of real, online, accredited universities out there offering that same major in the same format without the terms "Senate Hearing", "Type B Misdemeanor", "Illegal in some states", "Fraudulent or Substandard Institution with No Known Texas Connection", discourage you.

Wasabi August 9, 2007 at 3:36 a.m.

"The biased comment that "you can earn %40 of the credit at Kennedy-Western (Now Warren National) in 16) is not true"

Yes it is true. It is a part of Senate testimony that a government employee did just that. See above link.

"Now we have a new type of distance learning program which is internet based and a lot of people are bent out of shape."

There are hundreds of real, accredited distance learning programs out there. Kennedy / Warren is not one of them. I can't say it any more plainly.

To: States where it is illegal with link August 14, 2007 at 4:59 a.m.

You forgot to add that Kennedy Western / Warren National is banned from offering / advertising degrees in California, Oregon and ?? any other states??

Jackie August 16, 2007 at 1:58 p.m.

Why was my response not posted?

To Shingami August 17, 2007 at 3:46 a.m.

Shingami - Would you be able to provide details around what type of work you do and whether your employer accepted WNU Degree? How do you tackle cocnerns when one doess education verification adn they come to know that WNU is in process of being accredited?

Shinigami August 17, 2007 at 11:36 p.m.

Details? I am a Network Administrator for Matsushi-ta (deliberately mispelled to bypass the swear filter) Electronics Corporation. I have talked to my employers openly about my education and classwork. In fact, my company has approved my education even before I enrolled. For the most part, the issue of accredidation has never come up. In my line of work its really what you know that is important. I do believe that the education I received enabled me to become a better administrator. I still keep my textbooks and refer to them often.

I did read the testimony. What I know is that the investigator was an officer in the Coast Guard (if I remember correctly). She claims to have taken, what was it four exams and got 40% of her classes completed. And it was in two days.

I do not know how it was done. There was no explaination of what method was used. If there were it was not part of the record.

All I can tell you is that the least amount of time I spent taking a class from beginning to end was about 7 weeks and that was taking only one course at a time and concentrating only on that one course.

I am not saying that what this witness said is not true. Just that I do not know how it was done. If she did find a shortcut than I do not know what it was. Maybe the Univesity needs to be made aware of this.

Ganju Shiba August 19, 2007 at 8:25 p.m.

To LOL:

You gave a brief review, if you would call it that about the University (and it is a real University and not "so called").

My only question is, did YOU attend this school? If not than you are not qualified to make that statement.

Here are the facts:

WNU operates legally. The school is licensed by the State of Wyoming.

WNU is an applicant for accreditation.

The degrees are NOT easy to get. You do not merely send money and get some bogus diploma in the mail. You need to earn it.

No reputable employer you say? I think if you were to ask any graduate if their employer accepted a Warren National degree they would give you a different answer.

And the only joke is that someone like you would make these statements knowing nothing about what you are talking about.

I suggest you research your topic a bit more before making statements like this.

Wyoming - haven for unaccredited "universities" August 19, 2007 at 10:17 p.m.

"Wyoming * Weak law and poor enforcement allowed state to fill with unaccredited suppliers. Political interference exacerbated this problem. The 2006 Wyoming legislature passed a new law requiring eventual accreditation, which should solve the problem in a couple of years."

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccred...

Quick Answer August 24, 2007 at 5:10 a.m.

No. Only other unaccredited universities will even consider it.

Chris is funny... August 25, 2007 at 1:45 a.m.

"mid career professionals who do not have time under any circumstances sit in a classroom."

Those busy people can spend the same amount of time and money and get a regionally accredited degree, there are hundreds of options.

"A lot of schools are not accredited"

Complete lie. Most people can name hundreds of real, accredited universities. Only a few (those in higher ed and HR) can name a few unaccredited timebombs they've run across.

"I am the CEO of a major coroporation"

No, you are not. Entry level jobs are checked for accredited education credentials. CEO's of major corps are run through the ringer.

Robert Fuller, PhD August 28, 2007 at 4:21 a.m.

Robert Fuller, PhD June 15, 2007 at 3:51 p.m.

The debate over accredited versus non-accredited came up all the time when I worked for the U.S. Department of Education. Because the academic world sees the nature of degrees versus experiences from a different perspective than does the workforce, neither is willing to budge much on their stance. And here's why: Statistics show that 60% of those who attend college, whether they be traditional universities, online universities, unaccredited or accredited, never actually use what they learned or were supposed to have been taught after they graduate from college. They use the degree to get in the door, end up doing something totally different or unrelated to their educational background, and actually do quite well. Statistics also show that 43% of new hirees are retrained to do their jobs using concepts vastly differently from what they learned in college. The shocking statistic was the number of employers who actually verify educational credentials when hiring someone. Only about 25% of employers actually check the educational credentials of new employees. The other 75% base their hiring practices on experience and word-of-mouth referrals (opinions) of your references or previous supervisors. But of course, they don't tell potential employees that.

A friend of mine who sat on regional and national accrediting bodies for probably 15 years told me "accredited or nonaccredited, it's all about money and poeple keeping their jobs these days; school officials will promise or say anything to the accrediting bodies these days to keep their doors open." I'm inclined to believe him at this point because I've seen some accredited institutions that should never have been opened!

Just some thoughts...

Robert

To Ho Hum August 28, 2007 at 6:11 p.m.

It seems that you have an expertise on/around the verificaiton process in the HR Department. What is your take on corporations veryifying degrees with institutions such as Warren National University? Do they Hire Candidates? If Candidates have 5+ Years of Experience, MBA from this University, will they be given a job?

JR August 29, 2007 at 6:58 p.m.

All of those here bashing KWU/WNU are nothing more than ignorant blithering idiots. You have no FACTS to base your statements. Government inquiry? PLEASE, all smoke and mirrors.

1. Being Accredited is voluntary and NOT subject to US law.

2. To be accredited means that you pay a ton of money to some commission and become part of the 'Good ol boys club". These commissions have been around for a long long time and are getting "pissy" when something newer and better comes along and don't want to play in the commissions sandbox. It is the same as the record labels and the online music downloads out there. WAAA!

Who was the idiot that said they work in HR at a large corporation? oh, yes, To WNU (what an original name) I know of many companies that accept a degree from this institution. In fact a friend of mine is the CIO of a large, multi-state eye care practice. He attended KW, and was promoted to CIO AFTER getting his degree.

The bottom line is like Robert Fuller above stated, it all comes down to money. Paying BIG bucks to be part of the "Good ol boys club" PERIOD.

JR August 29, 2007 at 7:22 p.m.

One further thing.

Oregon was sued by KWU/WNU and the two settled out of court.

They agreed that KWU/WNU will not be classified as a "diploma mill", State of Oregon employees may not use KWU/WNU(as is the right of ANY employer), residents MAY use KWU/WNU on their resumes.

You can read it all here: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0...

All of you bashers are just that, bashers.

Bashers=People who make incorrect statements based on ignorance and/or feeling. Complete lack of logic. Loosers. Whiners. Blithering idiots.

To JR August 29, 2007 at 9:28 p.m.

You sound like someone of virtue and make decision based on facts. I would like to hear factually from someone how education is verified within the HR Organizations? When they verify, do they make a big stiff, if school is accredited or unaccredited?

Correcting JR with verifiable source August 30, 2007 at 4:59 a.m.

"1. Being Accredited is voluntary and NOT subject to US law."

Here are the 7 seven states where it is outright illegal (10 total with various restrictions) to use an unaccredited Kennedy Western / Warren National "degree".

"Is Oregon the only state that disallows use of unaccredited degrees?

No. It is also illegal in North Dakota, New Jersey, Texas, Nevada, Washington and Maine to use unaccredited degrees. It is illegal in Indiana to use an unaccredited doctorate and Michigan law limits the legal options of users. Illinois limits the use of unaccredited degrees to those licensed by other states.

See those states’ laws

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccred......

for details. Many other states are considering similar laws in order to prevent fraud."

JR August 30, 2007 at 4:21 p.m.

To: Correcting JR with verifiable source.

No need for correction, except for your post.

I stated US law, not STATE law.

Accreditation is VOLUNTARY.

States are free to pass laws as they wish.

It all comes back to an institution willing to pay the ridiculously amount of money so as to join the "Good Ol Boy" club.

How competent HR departments background check August 30, 2007 at 6:50 p.m.

The National Student Clearinghouse does not even have all the accredited universities on that list. I had attend a institution that has bene accredited by Middle States Association, Association of Collegiate Business Schools and Program and International Assembly for Collegiate Business Education.

In this circumstance, if candidate has presented the institution to HR and not on this clearinghouse. Than, how would the degree get validated? Would they not offer the candidate the position?

To JR: August 31, 2007 at 6:14 a.m.

I do agree with JR's point, that it's a shame that there isn't a single national law to deal with this issue.

Instead individual states and their consumer protection departments are left to fend for themselves. So until all 50 states have something in place, it's pretty easy to relocate to the states with the weakest education regulations.

Interesting Article on Kennedy Western August 31, 2007 at 7:47 p.m.

"It May Take Hours, But You Too Can Earn a University Degree"

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian...

The Oregonian Newspaper 7/4/04

C2 September 1, 2007 at 6:50 p.m.

I agree with JR

"Therefore, the individual needs to take responsibility and due their due diligence when selecting a college/university to attend."

Completely agree. If you truly perform due diligence, and are okay with the severe limitations, senate investigation, unaccredited status, inability to gain licensure, and in a growing number states where it is legal to use a WNU degree, plus the existence of hundreds of comparable, real accredited programs out there, go ahead and buy a WNU degree.

To poster above, post your major, and I'm sure someone can recommend a dozen good programs for you to attain your degree completely online, with accreditation.

Dr J. Bear September 4, 2007 at 1:35 a.m.

Inside scoop is that they will be accredited before 2009. Likely Fall/winter 2008.

Why September 4, 2007 at 4:07 a.m.

were there no accredited Universities before 1951? How did our nation survive? Oh how?

Oh that is right, ALL UNIVERSITIES were substandard prior to alcohol binge drinking, sex, drugs etc.
Accreditation, which happened curiously around the same time as LSD introduction, and communist teaching on campus does beg the question----Is it possible WNU standards will have to be lowered to get accreditation? You bet. That and a little grease money into the pockets of politicians.

To: <2% September 4, 2007 at 1:14 p.m.

I doubt you have a link for anything above. It directly contradicts what those seven states have passed into their laws. That kind of misrepresentation is very easy to disprove in 15 seconds of Googling. For example in Texas:

Institutions Whose Degrees are Illegal to Use in Texas

"Fraudulent or substandard degree" means a degree conferred in Texas in violation of the Texas Education Code; conferred in another state in violation of that state's laws; conferred in another state by an institution that was not accredited by an accreditor recognized by the Coordinating Board... (Texas Educational Code, Chapter 61, Section 61.302)

The Texas Penal Code (Section 32.52) prohibits the use of fraudulent or substandard degrees "in a written or oral advertisement or other promotion of a business; or with the intent to: obtain employment; obtain a license or certificate to practice a trade, profession, or occupation; obtain a promotion, a compensation or other benefit, or an increase in compensation or other benefit, in employment or in the practice of a trade, profession, or occupation; obtain admission to an educational program in this state; or gain a position in government with authority over another person, regardless of whether the actor receives compensation for the position." Violation of this law is a Class B misdemeanor.

http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/AAR/Private...

TO 2% & Recap September 4, 2007 at 6:40 p.m.

Do you know what the limitations are in the state of New Jersey?

Even with the Texas law, how come they allow private institutions to exist within their states?

love it homer September 5, 2007 at 3:15 a.m.

Loved the website.
I hate Texas.
The website is an insight into the back-woods hick arrogant cow-boy types that live there. I do feel bad for 99.98%. Maybe you picked a bad example for a state. Does Michigan have something you can quote against WNU? Better come up with something or you will become 50.001%.
Sorry ):. Next time spend a few minutes researching.

Texas example, per you request September 5, 2007 at 4:59 a.m.

Another verifiable Kennedy Western success story

"When Elected Officials Aren't What They Seem

Texas officials and Pennsylvania cats tout misleading credentials"

Excerpted:

"Identity deception can take many forms. A diploma mill degree, for example, may cause employers and taxpayers to assume a candidates credentials are genuine. Unless the deception is discovered, diploma mill customers adorn their identities with unearned titles before and after their name. Last year, Dallas based Trinity Southern University awarded a Masters degree to a Pennsylvania cat."

"News for Public Officials has learned that one well-known Texas County Clerk serving on the Supreme Court’s "Judicial Committee on Information Technology" Task Force claims a Ph.D. from a Wyoming school the United States General Accounting Office defines as a diploma mill.

Before she obtained her degree from Kennedy-Western and began calling herself Dr. Dianne Wilson, PhD, a Grand Jury indicted the Fort Bend County Clerk on charges she used taxpayer money to partially finance a Bachelor Degree from St. Edwards University and Certificates from the National Center for State Courts’ Institute for Court Management. (St. Edwards and the NCSC are accredited)

Kennedy-Western apparently accepted Wilson’s Certificates from the NCSC: Institute for Court Management as the equivalent of a Master’s Degree. The NCSC does not offer Master's degrees.

Wilson is not the only government official to claim advanced degrees from diploma mills or to put the title “Dr.” in front of their name after buying a degree from an unaccredited school."

http://www.davickservices.com/Some%20Off...

To all KWU/WNU bashers September 5, 2007 at 2:02 p.m.

I would like to see where any official government website SPECIFICALLY states that KWU/WNU is a "diploma mill".

A "diploma mill" is where one pays money and gets a piece of paper in the mail saying "Diploma".

I do not see any information on the US DoE site.

I do see a link to National Association of State Administrators and Supervisors of Private Schools (http://www.nasasps.com), which shows members and links to state licensing agencies, and lo and behold! there is Wyoming! and guess what? Wyoming has granted a license to WNU, and even to the University of Wyoming! WOW!

Basically all of you bashers are nothing more that the ignorant lapdogs for, as JR above put it, the "Good ol Boy" institutions.

WNU has top notch professors from universities across the nation and requires the students to do work and take tests.

Caveat Emptor September 5, 2007 at 6:19 p.m.

"There are a few legitimate institutions that have not pursued accreditation."

But there are thousands that have, and offer the exact same online programs as Warren National "University"

To: Caveat Emptor September 5, 2007 at 6:28 p.m.

If there are thousands that are accredited and offer "the exact same online programs" as WNU, then what is the difference?

ONE thing: Refusal to pay the rediculous amount of money to the "good ol Boy" club. Since they have refused to pay, they have been attacked by every means available to the pompous Academia and Educrats to knock them down.

Caveat Emptor September 6, 2007 at 4:35 a.m.

"If there are thousands that are accredited and offer "the exact same online programs" as WNU, then what is the difference?"

Directly from the Federal Trade Commission Article you posted, answers your question:

"Colleges and universities accredited by legitimate organizations undergo a rigorous review of the quality of their educational programs."

"Diploma Mills: Degrees of Deception"
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer......

To: Caveat Emptor September 6, 2007 at 12:14 p.m.

You have still not answered the question, if they are EXACTLY the same, then there is NO difference in the programs, except for accreditation.

Since accreditation is nothing more than joining the "Good ol Boys" club for a rediculous amount of money that provides absolutely NO real service in return, again I ask, what is the difference?

THERE IS NONE!

NOt until the middle of the last century was there any "accreditation" of schools. My My, what did we do before then? I guess all the great Leaders, business men/women, inventors, etc had substandard, worthless degrees because the schools they attended, Harvard, Yale, Stanford and others were not accredited.

Those that sit here and waste their breath how a school is not accredited is using flawed logic and have no argument.

WNU offeres the same courses as other "accredited" institutions using professors part-time from other "accredited" institutions. They are a quality institution that has unfortunately been lumped in with all of the diploma scams that are out there.

Until someone can provide some logical, factual data to back up their argument instead of "because I said so" then keep your traps shut.

The End September 6, 2007 at 11:55 p.m.

“You have still not answered the question, if they are EXACTLY the same, then there is NO difference in the programs, except for accreditation.”

You finally got it! It's the accreditation that separates them.

So, by FTC guidelines, "Colleges and universities accredited by legitimate organizations undergo a rigorous review of the quality of their educational programs."

Unaccredited “universities” have no such 3rd party quality review, no accountability, no oversight, no way to verify how much or how little students do to earn a “degree”. Take a look at what unaccredited universities have done recently:

Unaccredited Trinity Southern University issues a degree to a cat. (3.5 GPA!)
http://www.nbc10.com/money/3975070/detai...

Unaccredited Concordia College and University issues a degree to a dog.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17398521/

Unaccredited Rochville University can deliver your degree in 3-5 business days

Unaccredited Almeda University will grant you a degree for life experience

Unaccredited Kennedy Western University had a student who earned 40% of her Master’s degree in 16 hours of study (Senate Hearing)

Unaccredited Hamilton University conferred a doctorate, based primarily on a 4 page paper, to a gal in Homeland Security!

And those are only a few of the cases that made the paper. Who knows what multiple of that were discovered and handled quietly to avoid public embarrassment, and those waiting to be discovered.

To: The End September 7, 2007 at 2:36 a.m.

So then what was the quality of education from these Colleges and Universities before the 1950's when the accreditation bodies came to be?

By your statement then, Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford, UCLA, Duke, Notre Dame, and the plethora of other institutions were nothing more than diploma mills, for there was no 3d party to regulate them.

Once again, accreditation entities are nothing more than "Good ol Boy" clubs that rape the educational institutions by extorting huge amounts of money so as to "verify" their educational programs.

Directly from CHEA September 7, 2007 at 2:56 a.m.

11. Q. What if an institution or program is not accredited? Does that mean
it’s bad?

A. Not necessarily, but it does mean one should review as much information
as possible about the institution before enrollment. An institution or program
may be new and may not have met minimum standards to even be
considered eligible for accreditation. If an institution or program is not
accredited, it should have some other means of quality review.

Q. Shouldn’t there be a separate standard in the law to review distance
learning?

A. Right now, institutional and programmatic accrediting organizations are
effectively reviewing distance learning within the framework of the agreement
reached with USDE and the Congress during the 1998 reauthorization:
distance learning is considered part of the scope of accrediting
organizations if they had been reviewing distance learning prior to 1998.
At this time, there does not appear to be a need for a separate standard.
However, as new types of education offerings—e.g., online non-degree
options from providers that are not affiliated with any accredited entity—
become more and more available, accrediting organizations may need to
consider whether they should be examining the quality of these offerings
as well. And, this may involve consideration of a separate standard.

http://www.chea.org/pdf/fund_accred_20qu...

To Potential Student: September 7, 2007 at 3:08 a.m.

Don't waste your time, money or career there. This very site has dozens of good, accredited, online options.

If you can afford it, one of the best is Penn State - World University.

For a value, try Fort Hayes State or Peru State (Nebraska)

To Wyoming State Law September 7, 2007 at 4:49 a.m.

The question I have is than why did the president of WNU (Mr. Saltman) testify at the hearings in support of the Accredidation.

Why has the university taken step for the accredidation? From Accredidation perspective, explain to me, why this school wouldn't receive accredidation?

To Potential Student September 7, 2007 at 8:20 p.m.

There are so many good, accredited online MBA programs out there, it is almost overwhelming to compare them all. Here are a few to look at to get you started, but keep in mind there are dozens and dozens more to choose from.

Franklin University
Davenport University Online
Baker College
Kaplan University
University of Phoenix (too expensive in my mind)
Peru State (one of the cheaper options mentioned above)
Fort Hays State (low cost)
DeVry University
Penn State World (Penn State name, and online too!)
University of Maryland – UC
Nova Southeastern
Central Michigan
Boise State

So, it really depends on which of the big three factors you are looking to maximize (Name recognition, cost, accreditation)

*The name recognition ones such as Penn State can be a great find.

*The no-name low cost ones are no frills, but great when the next promotion / offer requires an Accredited master’s.

*Most of these are only regionally accredited, which will guarantee universal acceptance, but recently some of the top companies like HP have required AACSB (business school accreditation) on top of that to be eligible for tuition reimbursement. These are the toughest, most rigourous accreditation / programs out there.

*I personally would avoid anything that is only nationally accredited, such as DETC accredited schools. Although it is a real accreditation, and your employer can verify it as being accredited during routine background checks, you can run into some problems using this degree. I say that as an Accountant, as it won’t allow you to become a CPA in most states.

Congrats on looking to further your education and taking the time to ensure you select a quality, accredited program.

SuperStudent September 12, 2007 at 4:34 a.m.

has anyone gotten a real job using a wnu degree? if you can actually get a job using this degree, then i could understand why ppl still apply. If not then it seems utterly useless and a complete waste of time and money.

Re Super Student September 13, 2007 at 3:43 a.m.

My WNU Degree did help me get a promotion within my company. My employer recommended this University in fact.

Regarding the above" September 19, 2007 at 5:44 a.m.

I am at Matsush ita, the world's largest electronic corporation. We are best know for Panasonic but we also have other divisions.

Re: Confused September 21, 2007 at 3:36 a.m.

When the University gets Accredidation in 2008, you will not have any issues around credentials. If you are looking for a degree for purpose of credentials, why not try out one of the Diploma Mills such as Almeda University? No Education, No Studying, Just Pay Flat Fee and Great Certificate to Hang on your wall. What do you say?

Re: Confused? September 21, 2007 at 4:57 a.m.

You would be able to use this as a credential on the resume. Honestly speaking, you will not have any issues.

J. Bovin September 22, 2007 at 2:55 a.m.

Wow,

A whole bunch of ugly and upset folks here,,,, seeming to have some real issues with WNU/KWU. If it was as bad as what most everyone says it is,,,,, why don't our wonderfull goverment shut it down???

Well, here is my thoughts. When wanting to get into a safety engineering program the only one that came up was KWU/WNU. After phoning them and getting some references in the state that I live, I was impressed. Some of the ones given were:

Three Area Hospitals
Pulp & Paper Mills

and a few others.

After calling them, everyone seemed very pleased with the experence.

So I decided to send in my $50.00 and filled out the necessary paperwork & got moving forward.

One of the first things required was that I had to take a GERE. Being out of school for 30 years, I didn't fair so well. Around five days latter, I recieved a phone call that my $50.00 was being returned and and was told I did have what it took inregards to the math that was required in the area of study that I wanted.

After speaking with them, they required that I take a math course and pass with an acceptable grade and retake the GERE,,, I retook the test and passed with acceptable marks.

After going through the entire KWU/WNU program, I couldn't believe what I had learned, which improved my knowledge and
self-confidence and increased my earnings incredibly.

People can say what they want about "Accredidation". I graduated for an "Accredited" school, my High School to be exact, and there were people getting the same diploma that I got that couldn't:

* Read
* Write
* Do simple math

In a matter of fact, I worked with a fellow that got his high school diploma from another local high school that when signing his paycheck, he had to lay his drivers license down next to the line on the check and copy his name. OOOPs another "Accredited" institution.

Say what you want, I am proud of my degree. I worked for 17 months and three weeks to obtain it, and here is the good thing, I use the knowledge in my work everyday. It is
working for me & my family.

So while you people a beating up Warren Nation University I'm sitting back laughing. You may be like the bulk of the people in our wonderfull society with your "Accredited" degree, not even using it because you can't find a job in the field you studied in.

I went to a unaccredited university and am making $84,000.00
per year, and using my degree!!

Have a great life,,,,,,,,, I am.

Correcting JBovin September 23, 2007 at 2:17 p.m.

"GERE. Being out of school for 30 years, I didn't fair so well. Around five days latter, I recieved a phone call that my $50.00 was being returned and and was told I did have what it took inregards to the math that was required in the area of study that I wanted.

After speaking with them, they required that I take a math course and pass with an acceptable grade and retake the GERE,,, I retook the test and passed with acceptable marks."

Just to set the record straight, my experience was much different.

A) I was accepted without any exam scores. WNU does not require them, period. Look at their catalog.
B) They waived a healthy chunk of my requirements (> 40%) based on my work experience. I still have my degree plan that shows this.
C) It's the GRE exam, not a GERE, at least know the name of the exam you supposedly took.

reply: To: J. Bovin September 25, 2007 at 6:08 p.m.

Why did they move?

Simple.

The Liberal Academia Educrats felt threatened. Anytime an educational institution with a better way to provide an education comes along, they (Academia) will start screaming anything and everything until something sticks, like "Diploma Mill"

"Accredidation" has been around for a short time in this country, created by the liberal Academia buffoons, with help from the idiots in the media to spread the word.

"Voluntary" accreditation arguments debunked September 26, 2007 at 5:56 a.m.

From US Gov

Frequently Asked Questions about diploma mills, fraudulent degrees, and accreditation. Among other things:

Accreditation is “voluntary,” so doesn't that mean it is optional and not necessary?

Accreditation is voluntary in that the process of accreditation requires the full cooperation with and complete participation in the process of accreditation by the college or university seeking accreditation. At the heart of the accreditation process is a self-study prepared by the college or university demonstrating its commitment to the standards of accreditation.

Since accreditation is the PRIMARY means of determining the legitimacy and quality of colleges and universities in the United States, to describe the process as "voluntary" is not to describe it as "optional" or "unnecessary."

No September 28, 2007 at 12:27 p.m.

Nobody is certain if they are serious about accreditation. They haven't made the cut in 24 years.

They have applied for it because they state they are located in forced them to.

If they are indeed serious, and they make massive changes to their large "life experience" awards, 1 day open book exam grad courses, cut all their substandard programs, etc, still probably 2010 at the absolute soonest.

No September 28, 2007 at 5:56 p.m.

"Give up to 30 Credits for Work Experience. Many Many Universities do this"

Name one legitimate school that will give a year of college credit for nothing. WNU will give you one year for "work experience", other unaccredited schools like Rochville will give you 3 or 4 years.

"but their Wyoming License expries in 2008"

I'm not positive, but I thought I read they just had to APPLY by 2007, so I think they won't be forced out of state again, as long as they are still an applicant.

Re: NO September 28, 2007 at 9:04 p.m.

As for the 30 Credits Trasnferred from Accredited University, I have listed one below.

Strayer University

www.strayer.edu - Gives Credit for Life Experience

Work/Life Experience
Undergraduate students may be able to receive credit for their work or life experience; more information on this process is available through your Admissions Officer or Academic Advisor.

Ashworth University

www.ashworthuniversity.edu

Bachelor’s Degree
You may receive credit for up to 75% of your degree program as a combination of transfer credits from other institutions and life/work experience. Life/work experience credit is limited to 30 credits: 15 credits for general education courses and 15 credits for core and/or concentration courses. Credits must be no more than ten years old and be from an accredited institution.

Ashworth University is an Accredited Member of the Distance Education and Training Council, The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS), The Commission on International and Trans-Regional Accreditation (CITA). Also, Ashworth University meets the requirements of the Georgia Nonpublic Postsecondary Education Commission to offer instruction in career programs, associate, bachelor's and master's degree programs.

------------------------------------------------------------
American Sentinel University
http://www.americansentinel.edu

American Sentinel University recognizes that many students have already established and achieved substantial professional goals. We acknowledge students' life and work experience by awarding up to 30 credits toward the completion of the general education curriculum requirements.

Students may receive a total of up to 90 hours credit through a combination of credits transferred from other universities, for specific professional certifications, and credit awarded for life and work experience.

American Sentinel University is accredited by the Distance Education and Training Council. The Accrediting Commission of the Distance Education and Training Council is listed by the U.S. Department of Education as a nationally recognized accrediting agency and is a recognized member of the Council for Higher Education Accreditation.

------------------------------------------------------------

With all this said and being an accredited US Institution, are they also a Diploma Mill? Looking at them, Warren National Makes their policies upfront, rather than being sneaky. Whats the big deal?

Based on this, don't you think WNU should be accredited also? They are following the same requirements as these universities. There are plenty of more out there.

Question September 29, 2007 at 4:01 a.m.

What's the difference between unaccredited and diploma mill? Aren't they the same thing, but one is just more polite?

Re: Difference in Work Experience September 29, 2007 at 6:42 p.m.

As for WNU, they give 30 Credits with similar models as American Sentinel and Ashworth University. With Strayer also, its iffy, as they still give 30 credits for work experience.

With all this, than why shoudlnt WNU be accredidted?

Wasim Javid October 1, 2007 at 4:02 a.m.

I like the MBA course selections offered by Warren National University. I have been in business for over a decade. The course offered from Business Communication through electives on Leadership, Marketing and Interntaional Business are very practical, helps with our daily business challenges and make sound decision.

Their online school is good with e-Library, Virtual Student Union, Chat Room, Faculty assistance. I don't regret not going to a regular full time University. I am studying at my own shedule. I recommend this University. Much better than other online universities

Tony October 1, 2007 at 11:08 a.m.

I agree with Wasim's response. I have the same positive experience with WNU. They have a structured curriculum and helps you to accelerate your degree program in fast pace....

Alex October 1, 2007 at 11:22 a.m.

Guys...WNU is the fastest growing university. If accreditation is your concern, the news is they have filed for accreditation and they are expected to get one soon. I also spoke to one of the key program designer who designed cuurriculum, course programs, trained faculties for WNU, University of Phoenix and other recognized online universities. The design, metrics used for the curriculum is the same for other online Universities. I am not saying all on-line universities are good. I am referring to WNU only. I have done enough research on WNU and this school is one of the very few that not only offers best curriculum structure for Bachelors, Masters and Business program, they also give you credit for your work experiene and allow you to complete the program in 12-18 months.

To Alex: October 1, 2007 at 2:19 p.m.

If it is one of the best, why is it illegal in so many states? I can understand if you were naive enough to buy one of these degrees, but don't try to sell it to others who may be making a career decision.

I have never seen an employer that says "we gladly accept unaccredited degrees"

Whatever your major is, there is at least a dozen other schools that offer the same program, online, with accreditation, without all the Senate hearings and State blacklists.

Anyone who has Google and 5 minutes of time will come to the same conclusion.

If you still have your heart set on an unaccredited, cheap, easy degree, and want much of your degree magically waived, try other unaccredited universities like Belford or Almeda. At least it's more cost effective.

Re: To Alex October 1, 2007 at 9:18 p.m.

Obviously you are another idiot that has drank the Accreditation Kool-aid!

Accreditation is nothing more than a bogus way for Acedemia Elitists to EXTORT money from colleges and Universities.

WHY has Accreditation only been around for 50-60 years? Answer THAT.

I guess Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc are all diploma mills since they were not accredited until this whole B.S. sceme came around.

Accreditation? Nothing more than B.S.!!!!!!!!

BigD October 2, 2007 at 3:12 a.m.

Great school, licensed in 1984. I'm a graduate of two accredited colleges and attended one other accredited university and Warren's program is the toughest I've found. I was on a college academic development board also, Warren has responded over the years to student's/ faculty recommendations, as well. Check out their alumni, you'll find some very successful people in both Government and private industry. I would rate this progam highly against any in the nation. Free trade laws guarentee (successfully defended by Warren) that your degree will not be descriminated against.

To Ali: October 2, 2007 at 12:28 p.m.

"I am a graduate from Kennedy-Western University, and I recently graduated with my MBA from a very reputable regionally accredited university which, by the way, accepted KWUs credits. This is a fact and no one's opinion. Top that!"

It's simply not true. Please post a link to the schools graduate policy that says they accept unaccredited degrees. You can post these claims all you want, but there is not one shread of evidence on this thread yet that anyone accepts this sub-standard "degree".

Please post any company saying "We gladly accept unaccredited degrees". Anyone, Anyone?

I didn't think so.

RNMBA October 3, 2007 at 9:09 p.m.

I have two graduate degrees from accredited, well known universities. What I didn't realize is the dismal state of the KWU/WNU degree. I first heard about it on NBC Nightly News several years ago. That was after I worked very hard and completed all the courses for the PhD program. Silly me. I dropped out and never finished the dissertation. Why bother. I feel scammed out for sure.

To: RNMBA October 5, 2007 at 5:43 p.m.

So sorry to hear that. There are alot of good online doctorate programs out there, but the unaccredited ones can be very deceptive and sound legitimate.

Were you able to recover any of the lost tuition or take any other action against them?

Warren National "faculty"? October 9, 2007 at 3:32 a.m.

From Senate Hearing 108-353 "Bogus Degrees and Unmet Expectations, Are Taxpayer Dollars Subsidizing Diploma Mills?"

Page 51 - A Senator asks an undercover agent who enrolled, about Kennedy Western faculty.

Senator Lieberman: "I wanted to ask you whether there was any way in which the so-called professors at Kennedy-Western made themselves available to you over the Internet. For instance, was there ever a way give to you that you could contact anybody that seemed to be a professor if you had a question about a course?"

Lieutenant Commander Gelzer: "You were supposed to be able to contact your professor for what they called tutorial advice. You weren't allowed to contact your professor directly. You had to make a request to your student advisor and then they would forward it on to the professor, and the only time I reached out to a professor, I never got a response."

Low budget faculty / unknown ownership October 9, 2007 at 11:32 p.m.

According to an article in the Chronicle of Higher Education

Most faculty are "recruited by Kennedy-Western through mass mailings and fliers. They earn from a few hundred to several thousand dollars a year, receiving $25 to grade a paper, a couple of hundred dollars to develop a course, and $40 an hour to answer students' questions."

"This information is not confirmed by Warren National University. According to the Chronicle, the university refused to disclose the number of faculty, the method of compensation, the proportion of faculty that is full-time or the ownership of the institution."

File a complaint! October 11, 2007 at 1:06 a.m.

Personally, I would.

A) Send them a certified letter requesting a full refund for the reasons you cite.

B) If they don't at least make some restitution, go online and file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau they are in.

http://www.mountainstates.bbb.org/WWWRoo...

According to the Better Business site, Warren National University has received 14 formal complaints in the last few years, some in each of these BBB categories:

1. Advertising Issues - Claims alleging print or electronic media advertised claims or practices misrepresent the service or product offer.

2. Billing or Collection Issues - Claim alleging billing errors, unauthorized charges, or questionable collection practices.

3. Sales Practice Issues - Claims of alleged sales presentations made in person or by telephone that contain misrepresentations of the product or service, high pressure sales practices, failure to disclose key conditions of the offer, and verbal representations not consistent with written contractual terms or agreements.

4. Product Issues - Claim alleging a product does not meet the expectations of the complainant, including defective merchandise.

5. Refund or Exchange Issues - Claim of alleged failure to honor company policy or verbal commitment to provide refunds, exchanges, or credit for products or services.

Funny October 13, 2007 at 8:24 a.m.

Anyone want to read an entertaining news story?

It looks as the elite academics are getting what they asked for- government interference in education and lots of it. And they do not like it at all!!! It was OK as long as Uncle Sam let them keep their little good ole boy accreditation club going. Ah yes, live by the government sword and die by the government sword.
Football players getting BSEE degrees with SAT scores of 250 may no longer be allowed. Politics out and testing in. One standard for all accreditation agencies. What a beautiful day in America

http://insidehighered.com/news/2007/05/2...

MYOWNLAW October 15, 2007 at 8:30 a.m.

I hereby urge our esteemed Senators and the GAO to have a full investigation of all of the DOE recognized Accreditation Agencies for being substandard.

http://insidehighered.com/news/2007/05/2...

Thats the best you can do? October 16, 2007 at 10:26 a.m.

REF:Testimony of Andrew Coulombe, Former Employee Kennedy Western University:

This repetitive cut and paste of this one person who had an axe to grind because he did not get a pay raise.

Hank Park October 16, 2007 at 10:42 a.m.

I found the BSME program at WNU both challenging and valuable. The diversity of instructors from different locations across the country provided a very intriguing learning environment. I also took three Nuclear Engineering related classes at Georgia Tech while attending WNU online. I gained just as much, if not more, from the WNU courses online. I would strongly recommend this program to anyone interested in online learning.

Becka October 16, 2007 at 11:16 a.m.

I'm beginning my third Class (out of 6). The Liberal Arts programs have signicant writing requirements, and weekely participation requirements. You will find yourself challenged and wanting to put in the effort. WNUs teachers seem to be tuned in to online learning and so far have been helpful. You will interact with them a great deal in discussions and by email. They call you at the beginning of each class to say hello and get to know you. Frankly, although the school makes them do this, it is a nice touch to have the professor's actually show an interest in getting to know their students.

This is a structured program, and there are no real electives as each course is provided to you in full. The long paper that we've had for each of the first two seminars has been student's choice, and I expect that to continue.

This isn't just about battles and leaders. It is a broader course discussing the use of history, the study of history, and critical thought.

The support people at the school have been very responsive and friendly.

Miscellaneous, overly obvious corrections October 16, 2007 at 2:05 p.m.

"I found the BSME program at WNU both challenging and valuable" - 1 open book exam per course can be challenging.

"I accomplished my Doctorates at Warren National University." That's great, just don't call yourself "Doctor" and don't make any plans to work in academia.

"WNUs teachers seem to be tuned in to online learning " Wow! like Bigfoot, nobody was sure they existed.

"Warren National is a respected university" - By who exactly?

*Not the federal government, who investigated them.
*Not a dozen different states, which have made these "degrees" illegal.
*Not by employees, who described it as a telemarketing sweatshop.
*Not by real schools, who will not accept unaccredited credits in transfer.
*Not by any professional licensing board, which do not recognize them.
*Not by any competent HR department that can spend $6 per employee for verification.

"Though it is a nice place to visit since it is Beautiful Wyoming" Mmmm, sorry, they are based in California, but maintain an address in Wyoming, (after Idaho and Hawaii booted them),

Correction - Investigation titles October 17, 2007 at 12:28 a.m.

Previous Poster says: "WNU/KWU was not investigated by the government."

There are many links posted to the Kennedy Western University a/k/a Warren National University Senate Hearing. You must have missed them, here are the titles:

***"Federal Employees Have Obtained Degrees from Diploma Mills and Other Unaccredited Schools, Some at Government Expense."

***"Diploma Mills are Easily Created and Some Have Issued Bogus Degrees to Federal Employees at Government Expense."

***"Bogus Degrees and Unmet Expectations: Are Taxpayer Dollars Subsidizing Diploma Mills?"

Other reading items on Kennedy Western University a/k/a Warren National University from various other exposes and news articles.

***"It May Take Hours, But You Too Can Earn a University Degree"

***"When Elected Officials Aren't What They Seem
Texas officials and Pennsylvania cats tout misleading credentials"

Some Day October 17, 2007 at 8:03 a.m.

I would like to meet, and buy a cup of coffee, the other one person (besides myself) who keeps changing their identity and making up stories and posting to this blog. I am 90% sure that there is only one or two other posters to this site besides me. There may be a third person, but I doubt it. I have had a lot of fun antagonizing both sides by changing my opinion 180 degrees and taking different stances here and there.

re: I'd be a disgruntled employee too October 17, 2007 at 6:22 p.m.

KWU/WNU is a FOR PROFIT institution, just like Univ of Pheonix!

Sales and commissions are a hard, intense position.

Maybe we should investigate car salesmen, as they are under the same pressure as Andrew was.

Do the math October 18, 2007 at 1:38 a.m.

If you run the numbers

Say $6,000 in tuition - $100 to the telemarketer that landed a "student" - minimum wage to the "examination processor" = mucho profit to cover the 1 faculty member and some admin costs.

It is Fear October 19, 2007 at 9:32 a.m.

Afraid WNU students might get their jobs maybe?

Chickens judging Eagles.

It's not even a university October 19, 2007 at 1:04 p.m.

Look at their employee list. (From Exhibit #31 - Committee on Governmental Affair). As provided by Kennedy-Western University, they list 119 employees. 61 Admissions Counelors (Telemarketers) and ONE FACULTY MEMBER!

It's a telemarketing operation that supplies degrees.

To: Phillip Walter October 19, 2007 at 1:18 p.m.

Good for you! Which master's program did you get into? I have yet to find any university that accepts a Warren National University degree. Let me know the name and I will check into the one you found!

Verification October 19, 2007 at 1:27 p.m.

B.S. stories are nice, but can anyone point to anything verifiable? Cite a source other than buyer's remorse / personal opinion? Newspaper article? Anything?

The score is currently 83 verifiable negative points to a Warren National "university" "degree" to 0 verifiable positive points.

Hey Dumbo October 19, 2007 at 1:32 p.m.

This site is for Student Reviews! Are you a WNU student?

A big no on that I am sure.

So get the hell off this site.

Just Like October 20, 2007 at 1:48 a.m.

Every other university!

Bob E Lee October 20, 2007 at 7:03 a.m.

My favorite WNU programming uses a traditional "correspondence school" format, where assignments are literally mailed to the student and exams are completed and returned by mail.

This format tends to make the quality of the lessons highly dependent on the quality of the course text books. Unfortunately many book companies these days place more emphasis on color and graphics than they do on content and clarity of presentation. There are no lectures or supplemental materials to help make up for the text shortcomings.

However, that one flaw aside, the overall program is very thoughfully designed and fairly straightforward even for someone with a limited background in the subject matter.

Personally I liked the self-directed nature of the study, but if you are one who needs a lot of interaction with others this may not be for you. For me, the lack of the currently fashionable and utterly boring "discussion" with people who know even less than you do was an absolute blessing, and made the program go much faster and pleasantly.

The later courses in the series include practicums, which give you a good feel for the real life application of your earlier courses. There also is a required 150-hour Lab, which can be a problem if you aren't currently involved in the field, but they do give you quite a bit of latitude in finding an appropriate activity. The blend of theory and application seemed well thought out and "real world" oriented.

Although I took this program just for personal interest, this is a very economical way to obtain a legitimate credential as a health care practitioner.

Do not believe all the pure crap you hear about not being able to use your WNU degree for licensure. Also the "Illegal WNU Degree Myth" is comical! I work at a hospital in Savannah GA., and if you want a promotion you call 1800-WARRENNATIONAL. Case closed.

Ref Cato Institute Website October 20, 2007 at 7:11 a.m.

The Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, "We find fault with the accreditation process itself and favor a free market or state solution.
Mr. Salisbury had no kind words for the accreditation process, which he described as a noncompetitive cartel of hidebound, quasi-governmental agencies that effectively suppresses innovations in higher education

Yale under US govt investigation October 20, 2007 at 11:18 a.m.

http://www.yalealumnimagazine.com/issues...

Tina Kinneavy October 20, 2007 at 12:09 p.m.

I initially enrolled with Warren National in Feb. of 2006. I was able to transfer in with 30 credits from my local community college, which was great. Also, I LOVED the fact that I was easily able to take a 2 month leave of absence when I gave birth to my son in Sept. of 2006.

I am currently just a few months away from obtaining my BS in Business. As soon as I get my BS, I am then going to continue my education with WNU and pursue my BA in Accounting. So far, just about everything has been great. My enrollment advisor has been awesome! Even though his obligations to me ended after he got me signed up and enrolled in my first classes, he has continued to email me or give me a phone call every once in awhile just to see how I am doing and to give me encouragement. My academic advisor is also amazing. I have bugged him SO many times with numerous questions, and he has always been great about responding to me right away. The one negative thing that I have experienced with WNU is their financial aid people. They have switched my financial person on me several times...and each one that I have gotten has been awful. They never answer my questions, or if they do, it is usually the wrong answer that I am given.

All in all, the teachers have all been great, I have been learning ALOT in my classes, and I really enjoy the fact that I can work on my assignments when it is convenient for me and my hectic schedule. Also, I just noticed that they were listed as "America's Most Popular Higher Learning Facility" by National Review Magazine, which I thought was awesome. As for any person here who did not have a good expereince, what were the names of the teachers/advisors who weren't doing their job correctly? Because as I said, so far I have had great experiences with everyone except the financial aid people. I love this school and I cannot wait to fly out to Wyoming to receive my degrees.

It's not even a University October 20, 2007 at 1:56 p.m.

Look at their employee list. (From Exhibit #31 - Committee on Governmental Affairs). As provided by Kennedy-Western University, they list 119 employees. 61 Admissions Counelors (Telemarketers) and ONE FACULTY MEMBER!

It's a telemarketing operation that supplies degrees to the naive.

Dr J October 21, 2007 at 7:14 a.m.

REF: "It's a telemarketing operation that supplies degrees to the naive."

And no I did not get mine from KW.

Who is Naive?

Two industrial real-estate brokers go into a sales attempt. All things being equal, one broker has a genuine Seiko watch (price $370.00) and the other has a fake Rolex watch (Price $75.00). Who makes the Sale? In most cases, the broker with the fake Rolex gets the deal.
Now chances are real good I am older than you (unless you are a grandparent). I have seen it all. Appearances mean more than reality, much more.
An AS from KW looks better than just a high school diploma. A BS from KW looks better than an AS from a community college.
In todays fast pace world (where people on average keep jobs for a few years and move on and where so few truly qualified HR people monitor such)this degree stuff falls through the cracks. The KW degree is inexpensive and obtained with marginal effort. But it is legal in most states and countries. It is the "Fake Rolex" that lands the million dollar deal.
In the end, it is who has the most Jack in the bank. In life, get in, make your money hit and get out. Advice to live by my young friend. :)

HR John October 21, 2007 at 7:11 p.m.

"A BS from KW looks better than an AS from a community college."

Incorrect. An AS from a community college is a valid credential that can and will be verified. A BS from KW is not. Pretty simple.

Throwing the BS flag October 22, 2007 at 3:44 a.m.

National Student Clearinghouse requires universities to participate and agree to monitoring. By my count they represent only about one third of the existing DOE sanctioned accredited universities. Regents Excelsior (ABET)accredited Engineering University, for example is not there for example. Check out the link below where Tulane is just now becoming a member. There are at least thousands on non members.

http://www.tulane.edu/~registra/nsch.sht...

wow October 22, 2007 at 9:48 a.m.

http://insidehighered.com/news/2007/05/2...

You are right! The accreditors are against being audited. Talk about HIPOCRITOMAXIMUS!

Correcting on National Student Clearinghouse October 22, 2007 at 3:04 p.m.

1/3 of schools are in the clearing house? You must have had your math class waived for "life experience".

"More than 3,000 colleges, enrolling 91% of US college students, and hundreds of high school districts nationwide participate in the Clearinghouse"

DegreeVerify: ...Commercial verifiers can instantly confirm degrees online, providing them with an easy, fast, and inexpensive way to validate educational records and combat credentials fraud."

http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/abou......

Glad to clear up all the confusion!
And the other 9%, are still verified to weed out fakes, it is just a little slower. More colleges join every day.

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right October 23, 2007 at 3:41 a.m.

I am sorry did I say 33%. Guess I was wrong as it is only 20%.

The National Student Clearinghouse
provides immediate
online access to degree and enrollment data from colleges and universities throughout the United States. Degree verifications are available from more than 285 post-secondary institutions representing over 20% of all degrees granted, while enrollment verifications are available on 91% of the nation's students from more than 2,700 post-secondary institutions.

http://investor.talx.com/phoenix.zhtml?c...

More Truth - Kennedy Western Students October 23, 2007 at 5:32 a.m.

From the Committee on Governmental Affairs, Exhibit #26 from the Senate Hearing on Diploma Mills that included Kennedy Western University.

"Kennedy-Western Student on the Program"

"I'm used to brick and mortar and this is really hard. I'm finding it difficult without any feedback. How do you actually get to talk to a professor? I can't understand why we don't write papers. With all the changes in healthcare, you would think they would want us to do more than memorize a book. I am thinking that maybe I made a mistake"

Sigh, another correction October 23, 2007 at 12:24 p.m.

Your ad on the clearinghouse is 5 years old (2007 - 2002 = 5). They currently list 1,899 schools as of today for Degree Verify not 285.

It's a great tool for simple background screening, $5 a pop, delivered to your desktop electronically. Some SHRM articles put the rate of academic fraud in some form (GPA, Major, Degree, Year, School, Diploma Mills) at 20% of applicants, that's why it is standard operating procedure.

! October 23, 2007 at 2:50 p.m.

http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/secu...

Yea- It just says Degree and enrollment data combined. You have to pay to find out they only verify for 312 of the companies.

WaWaWa October 23, 2007 at 3:40 p.m.

Furthermore, Just call 703-742-4200 (National Student Clearinghouse)and ask for Ann. Ann tells me that they will list any state licensed University. Accreditation is not a must. She even gave me the phone number of Don Gwinn (in Wyoming) 847-491-1335 and said they would love to work with WNU. She said all they do is the work the school do to verify the enrollment and degree (this is a service). They would tell any checkers that the school was unaccredited (just like WNU would do). In fact, they already have several unaccredited universities using the service.
You see, all they do is verify enrollment and that the person achieved what degree.

haberge October 23, 2007 at 4:53 p.m.

We are AREVA-
The large international French company that will get 27 of the next 30 Nuclear Dockets for new Nuclear plants in the US. We do not recognize Any US accreditation. Our HR people speak French and despise anything the US Govt sanctions. We are here for the money and look at WNU University as being as good as MIT. As the arrogant US population becomes more and more out of touch with world realisms and their so called accreditation, they will fall behind in Tech.

WNU Students October 23, 2007 at 5:12 p.m.

WNU students.
Ask yourselves this question--Why is the other side so upset at us WNU students? Put yourself in their shoes. Think about it. You got it? There can only be one reason. Come on. The answer is easy!

YOU ARE TAKING THEIR JOBS!!! Nuf sed.

No October 23, 2007 at 5:14 p.m.

They will not like you, they will just hate you less.

Caveat Emptor October 23, 2007 at 6:40 p.m.

"Ask yourselves this question--Why is the other side so upset at us WNU students?"

I don't think anyone is upset at the students, they are the victims. It's this Telemarketing business (61 telemarketers out of 119 employees by their own count) that continues to pump out substandard products that caused the Senate Investigation and the various states to boot them out. (they are on State #4).

"since unaccredited schools are not illegal"
Yes, they are illegal in many states, you must have missed the list, you can find it above.

"and the author of A Classroom of One"
If it's about Kennedy Western University, it could be called "A Faculty of One"

Students, look elsewhere, there are dozens of legitimate online schools who won't stain your resume.

Tina October 24, 2007 at 7:48 a.m.

I have an associates from Kennesaw College (accredited)and an associates with experience was all that was required of me in Delaware to get the CPA.

http://www.beacpa.org/how/index.php#1

New rules for WNU October 24, 2007 at 2:19 p.m.

New rules for using your WNU Degree.

First of all, 45 of the states have no laws against unaccredited degrees for non-Civil or licensure jobs.

By calling the office of degree authorization in "THE ILLEGAL" states and asking for a waver based on WNUs seeking accreditation, you will likely get it. If they give you a hard time about it there are several civil litigation lawyers standing by to take your case pro-bono.

The states do not, and I repeat -DO NOT- want to test this illegal law in court. Notice their fear of prosecution of anyone. No one has or ever will be prosecuted for putting a WNU credential on a resume. Federal judges are waiting to "take out at the knees" the first states AG that tests this unconstitutional law.

Dont feel bad October 24, 2007 at 3:45 p.m.

I got scammed bad by Almeda.
3K for a fake PHD in dentistry. They even made me pay the 15 dollars for Fedx overnighting it. I think someone spilled coffee on it before they mailed it.
Anyways, I then spent about $500.00 for a business license and get this, Almeda scammed me another 50 bucks for verification to the state licensing board!!! I practiced dentistry for 9 years (and made about 3.5 million dollars) before I got caught. My 326 loyal customers were shocked when Oregon sent me to one of those white collar jails for 6 months. I think I will practice law when I get out, that is if Almeda is still in business.

Difference October 25, 2007 at 10:34 p.m.

How does one differentiate between unaccredited and a diploma mill?

All the cited laws and Senate testimony frequently interchange the two terms?

Truth Hurts October 26, 2007 at 4:20 a.m.

Senate Investigations and State Laws are tough to downplay.

tilly girl October 26, 2007 at 1:37 p.m.

"Here is an update to the stories...."
Can you repost that, all I keep getting is a Cadillac Commercial.

QUAGMIREOFLAWS October 26, 2007 at 1:55 p.m.

"I am waiting for someone to have tha balls to go after private individuals in the free enterprise domain in Texas. Never happen."

A federal judje will use what is known as prescident (vs) law citing the Oregon case (under federal law Oregon officials can go to jail and/or pay huge fines for refering to WNU as a diploma mill or for not letting WNU students use the degree) and Texas will get into the same debacle as Oregon got into.

45 of the states have no laws against unaccredited degrees for non-Civil or licensure jobs.

By calling the office of degree authorization in "THE ILLEGAL" states and asking for a waver based on WNUs seeking accreditation, you will likely get it. If they give you a hard time about it there are several civil litigation lawyers standing by to take your case pro-bono.

The states do not, and I repeat -DO NOT- want to test this illegal law in court. Notice their fear of prosecution of anyone. No one has or ever will be prosecuted for putting a WNU credential on a private sector resume. Federal judges are waiting to "take out at the knees" the first states AG that tests this unconstitutional law.

Steve Rawlinson (website owner/admin) October 26, 2007 at 2:22 p.m.

“2. Of the 13 "Reviews to date, we can verify that only a few are actually WNU students. The rest are fakes. The multiple legitimate WNU students attempt at posting reviews (in our test sample) were never considered. “

Talk about “defamatory lies” :) I don’t really see how you can be in a position to verify if reviews are fake or that legitimate reviews were “never considered.” I personally check ever review that is submitted. Note that last week no new reviews were approved as I was away on vacation.

I will admit that the review verification process can not be 100% accurate in detecting fake reviews. However, I stand by the process I use and I consider it to be very good.

“3. A consortium of experts (lawyers, professors and private contributers) are reviewing this entire website.”

If these “experts” have any questions or need information please feel free to have them contact me directly.

4. It is too late for this site to "clean up its act". We will not accept any appeal to not go forward with the story.

Great! I’m really looking forward to seeing your story and I encourage you to go forward with it. If there is anything I can do to help or information that I can provide please contact me. My hope it that your story is fair and accurately reflects the site and the valuable contribution that it is making.

Best Regards,

Steve Rawlinson

RE: Story updates - Channel 11 October 26, 2007 at 6:51 p.m.

Good article. I like the Texas "cease and desist" approach to enforcement, on the unaccredited degree problem. So the individuals are pulling the Kennedy Western "Phd" from their websites, bios, stationary, marketing material etc. to come into compliance with state law.

I think the Texas Southern University lost alot of face in the process.

“They've degraded that entire institution, not just themselves, not just their department but that entire institution,” Lust said. Texas Southern University tells us it will soon remove any mention of Professor Lin’s Ph.D. from the University website.

Accreditation October 27, 2007 at 12:08 p.m.

I don't think that accreditation is the end all, be all for universities. But for the specific "university" in question, it has been individually proven to be so substandard that it is laughable.

Telemarketers cold calling people down on their luck, waiving the bulk of a so-called degree for just about any reason, then requiring 1 open book exam for the small amount of remaining "work" for each course. All well documented.

Joyce October 27, 2007 at 2:59 p.m.

Good to see that Kennedy Western has changed their name to try and bury their past while still offering meaningless degrees for cash.

What a horrible institution

Steve Rawlinson (website owner/admin) October 27, 2007 at 3:17 p.m.

Kevin,

There is a very good reason every college is listed on this site, so that people know what type of college it is and can get the information to make an informed decision. Imagine if this college wasn't listed, then people would have no information other than what the college tells them! My expectation is that the reviews and comments here will give people information that they wouldn't otherwise have. The fact that the college is listed here should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any type.

To Steve: October 29, 2007 at 12:13 a.m.

Can't argue with site owner, but I think listing this school among the legitimate schools can be misleading to the unwary.

Would it be possible to list them under their own heading of "Unaccredited Schools", along with Rushmore?

The Snare of College Accreditation October 29, 2007 at 9:20 a.m.

Have you ever noticed that the first question people ask about a college is "Are they accredited?" By implication, the questioner is asking if the school is accredited by an organization recognized by the United States Department of Education, or otherwise recognized by state government as a degree-granting institution. They assume that the accreditation process ensures quality in education, and that employers will only hire employees with accredited degrees.
It will be shown here that accreditation does not equate to quality, that employers really are more interested in ability than pedigree, and that accreditation inherently has strings attached which undermines.......

http://www2.whidbey.net/jmboyes/snare.ht...

Rushmore October 29, 2007 at 1:57 p.m.

Rushmore has no recognized accreditation. It is listed as a diploma mill on the dozen states that have laws against unaccredited degrees.

Kennedy Western University tried this trick for a while too, listing a bogus "accreditating agency". I can't recall the name of the "agency" right now. Was is the Board of Online Universities Accreditation (BOUA)?

Mental Floss October 29, 2007 at 3:08 p.m.

We at WNU understand that club members of academia and other occupations are quite lacking in the qualities that, ideally, defines their domain. We have seen how researchers employ reverse scientific method, how philosophers are unwise, how psychologists are not perceptive, how historians lack perspective, not to mention how physicians are not healers, attorneys hate justice, psychiatrists are lunatics and musicians only know the "F" and "N" word. Ah yes accrediataion.

Never October 29, 2007 at 6:07 p.m.

Ref:
Former employee that worked in admissions, NEVER saw an "applicant" get turned down.

So a former employee who was fired for smoking marijuana in the office has a gripe with KW and says "I never" saw.

Well, I never saw Abraham Lincoln in person.

Here are some more.

I never saw bacteria.

I never saw an atom or molecule for that matter.

I never saw anyone killed in cold blood.

I never saw a Negro Slave.

I never saw a NAZI persecuted Jew.

I never saw the lines of gravitational force.

AND

I never saw such ignorance as you!

PT Barnum October 29, 2007 at 7 p.m.

PT Barnum, of Ringling Brothers and Barnum & Bailey Circus, a/k/a "The Greatest Show on Earth".

He is often credited with saying, "there's a sucker born every minute"

But PT Barnum October 30, 2007 at 1:50 a.m.

Never said "There is a sucker born every minute." The phrase was coined after his death.

People thinking he did say it is due to another rewriting of history by the same marxist elitists that dreamed up accreditation.

Paul October 30, 2007 at 3:40 a.m.

REF If they are associated with Kennedy Western and your future employer makes the connection, (or checks on Wikipedia) you are not getting hired. Take it from a KW alumni.

Yes, But if you already have a Job then get the Degree no one will fire you from that job. Many employers are looking for any reason at all to promote people and just need to check the "Does he/she have a degree box"

WNU Was up front with me. They said from the beginning that WNU BSME could not be used for obtaining a PE. But I already earned my Georgia PE 8 years ago without any University. Many states still allow a PE with no degree whatsoever. My schtik is that people will not question the BSME because they see the PE. And yes I chose WNU because it is fast. I needed to earn the BSME in less than a year and I will.

I am a Westpoint Cadet October 30, 2007 at 9:22 a.m.

I am laughing at this blog.
Any non Military University is substandard by every measure possible when compared to Westpoint.
Civilian Universities are fermented garbage. This WNU place is just slightly more fermented garbage.
What a joke.
Join the military and go fight for your country you little girls.

Char October 30, 2007 at 12:33 p.m.

"Yes, But if you already have a Job then get the Degree no one will fire you from that job. Many employers are looking for any reason at all to promote people and just need to check the "Does he/she have a degree box"

Depends...
We're a large company and I was given a background and academic check on each promotion or transfer within the company. So, if you had a legitimate degree that got you the job initially, buying an additional unaccredited degree to try and get a promotion wouldn't work.

smg October 30, 2007 at 2:54 p.m.

i have an unaccredited degree from a diploma mill, and making 70k plus a year. i love america. also i'm highly educated, but don't have time to play school. so to all those haters about diploma mills, keep hating while i'm still living a comfortable life. wow!!!!!!

Franstaunchenzant! October 31, 2007 at 2:06 p.m.

The future of higher education in America, its role in our country's democracy, and its contribution to world affairs is at stake. Join WNU in defending academic freedom! These things are at stake--and academic freedom does need to be defended. But with its polarizing language and "noli me tangere" defensiveness, the Ad Hoc Committee is doing more to deepen the problem than to address it.

This is the truth November 1, 2007 at 9:40 a.m.

I am a contractor. I have a resume albeit I am not sure why. I have been in the workplace for 30 years. And as God is my witness, I have never gotten a gig with my resume. The client asks for my services and allows me to pick which site vendors I work for. In otherwords, I pick my employer and not the other way around. All my contracts are secured through word of mouth.
Delivering a high quality product is all I have ever done. Never kissed the systems ass for a degree, never had to, never will. Anyone wanting real success in life will not do it with a government handout. Accreditation is little more it seems than a government "we give you money for votes" scheme. Welfare systems such as accreditation cartels are hurting our country. No one has any pride or decency anymore. There was a reason our founding fathers wanted small government. All government tends to grow and grow until no more freedom exists and this chokes off free enterprise. You free loaders on this site know who you are, and I pray for your salvation. You might have no shame because you have no soul. Your lives will be miserable as long as you associate government-taxpayer funded educations with success. Sure, you might earn 300K/year and think you are getting ahead but in the end, they (the govt)will steal from me to support the likes of you in your old age. Your punishment will not be of this earth.
I assure you my yearly income exceeds anyone posting to this blog. No one ever handed me government freebies. My parents were too proud to take a handout even though my mom never graduated HS and my dad never made more than minimum wage. They passed on a pride to me that made me (along with help from above) successful. This was not the false pride that black and minority comunities have where government handouts are "entitlements".

Its just frustrating though November 1, 2007 at 10:19 a.m.

When you see many of these people with a fake degree get promoted past you and then go to your boss and ask her about it and find out she has a fake degree too (then your life is a living hell until you finally quit). I interupted their little good ole(girls) club and became an outsider.
Well, I did quit and went to work work with a company that has real people with real degrees only to find out we are being bought out by guess who, yea the place I used to work for. I have considered quitting again but I used up all of my savings and racked up 50,000 in credit card debt on my first quit.
I hate these non-accredited fake degree telemarketers.
Its like a club now, no a cult. They are poping up everywhere.
Like the illegal immigrant thing, no laws are being enforced. When is government going to enforce some of these damn laws.

Report them to your state government. November 1, 2007 at 12:32 p.m.

"I hate these non-accredited fake degree telemarketers."

Call your office of degree authorization in your state. Hire a lawyer or something.

Sounds to me like November 1, 2007 at 12:47 p.m.

You belong in Mexico you Government framunda cheese eating hump.

?? November 1, 2007 at 3:16 p.m.

Will Warren National University provide me a list of the various states that I can't use my degree in? I don't like the sound of the various disclaimers I'll need to use when applying for a job, is there a check list or template or something?

Seems like the placement office should be helping in this area.

Pissed off in Maine. November 2, 2007 at 3:46 a.m.

I too am sick and tired of all of these degree mill pushing companies hiring all of these people with their fake degrees. It is rampant up here. When the top management in your company has these dubious credentials and your company has a thousands times the money (as Maine does) to hire lawyers, it is a no win.
Maine passes these stupid laws but never enforces them. It sucks. I am moving to Canada.

Accepted November 2, 2007 at 3:31 p.m.

"Okay, if you are going to use a fancy word 8 times, please spell it correctly. Say it with me, Precedent."

So I spelled Precedent wrong. Forgive my english, I am originally from Montreal Canada and earned my citizenship to the US, and served in the US Navy. I speak French. English is my second language.

But the people in the "Texas Article" that you obviously did not read were government employees. Lets say that again THE TEXAS CASE INVOLVED GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES. A Court clerk and a Judge. Doubt you can or will admit you are wrong like I did since you have the markings of a rat. Where is this 5$ fee spent, are you the discredited "Clearinghouse poster"?
You are wrong. Oregon was disciplined and even given defamation training. They were forewarned by a Federal judge what would happen if they did not settle out of court.

By the way, one-upmanship on spelling is a bygone occupation since spell-check.
Anyone can cut and paste their writing into WORD and do a spell-check. Forgive any future mis-spelled words as that seems to offend you more than the lies you propogate.

himarks November 2, 2007 at 3:38 p.m.

"When you see many of these people with a fake degree get promoted past you and then go to your boss and ask her about it and find out she has a fake degree too (then your life is a living hell until you finally quit). I interupted their little good ole(girls) club and became an outsider."

Get used to it.

Unenforced Laws November 3, 2007 at 2:22 a.m.

I see you left out that the individual has to "knowingly" use a substandard degree (guess you "accidently" overlooked that). If in the individuals opinion the degree is not substandard and since WNU has no responsibility to make any students aware of obscure Texas laws then that is a defense that can not be lost in court. You I am sure have heard of the phrase "Ignorance is no excuse under the law", but the exception is when "knowingly" is placed in front of the clause. That one word means two things.
1. States AG will not enforce this law since intent is so hard to prove and no one is expected to study and memorize all laws or even find some bogus list on a Texas website.
2. "Knowingly" is an escape clause that believe it or not is wanted more by enforcement(executive) than judicial to give freedom of movement.

I do not know what state you are in, but trust me you are violating written laws in your state every day. You just do not know it. Some of these laws exist so that they can be used selectively to get bad guys and hold them long enough to investigate them.

An unsuccessful attempt was made in Ga. to enforce the sodomy laws when the DEA busted into the wrong address. Lets just say the married couple at the address were having a specific type of non-missionary sex. The DEA was embarrased and looking at big trouble so they decided to bust the couple for sodomy. They were unsuccessful since the jury saw the snake in the grass.

Like I said before, find me a conviction in any state. A cease order on two GOVERNMENT employees in Texas does not count.

In law circles, untested laws do not exist as law. Look at it this way. If Texas (legislative branch)passed a law making it illegal to breath air in the state of Texas they (judicial branch) likely would not endorse it. AGs (executive brance) have considerable freedom in enforcement and would not enforce it. There are many untested laws. Look at the sodomy laws in Ga, they have been there for 200 years and never endorsed or enforced. Unendorsed and unenforced laws are not laws yet.

I have been holding off on this but the reason Private non-govt, enterprise can not be prosecuted has to do with interstate law. What if my services are based in South Carolina but I am doing calculations for a nuclear plant in Texas. Now my resume has WNU on it and a company from the Philipines is getting the contract to do the work and I am a subcontractor to that Phillipino company.
Add in the fact that I am a national from Canada, but my home is in Sweden.
Who broke the law? How does Texas enforce it? How do they even find out? Life is complicated. Get used to it!

Jay November 4, 2007 at 3:14 a.m.

"What if my services are based in South Carolina but I am doing calculations for a nuclear plant in Texas. Now my resume has WNU on it and a company from the Philipines is getting the contract to do the work and I am a subcontractor to that Phillipino company."

Actually a great example! Where does the violation actually occur? Since the State of Texas specifically lists Warren National "University" as a "Fraudulent or Substandard Institution with No Known Texas Connection", it is just a matter of pinpointing it.

There are many people dropping the ball here. If you were hired in South Carolina, HR there did not do a background check to verify that you had valid academic credentials.

The nucleur power plant did not perform proper due diligence on it's subcontractor qualifications before signing the contract.

I would guess the violation occurs under the section where Texas has made it illegal to use a Warren National University degree "in employment or in the practice of a trade, profession, or occupation;"

Great, scary example of some half-trained yahoo working on a nucleur power plant project.

? November 4, 2007 at 3:08 p.m.

"There are many people dropping the ball here. If you were hired in South Carolina, HR there did not do a background check to verify that you had valid academic credentials."

But the WNU degree is perfectly legal in South Carolina. No?

??? November 4, 2007 at 3:31 p.m.

"I would guess the violation occurs under the section where Texas has made it illegal to use a Warren National University degree "in employment or in the practice of a trade, profession, or occupation;"

Lets get this straight.
So we are going to internationally extradite to the US, then do an interstate extradition from NY to Tx a Swedish National on a Class B Misdemeanor for submitting his resume to a company in the Phillipines that wins a 30 million dollar bid on a contract in Matagorda Texas?

After spending $200,000 on international extradition, then $25,000 on interstate extradition, we can promptly give her a first offender warning. The second time she does it a $500.00 fine. GET REAL!

Anna November 5, 2007 at 4:10 a.m.

My girlfriend says WNU is a Diploma Million. What does that mean?
She said you can get an associates degrees in less than two years there. True?

Anna November 5, 2007 at 7:19 a.m.

I want to be a secret agent spy or a movie star. Can I buy one for that?

SkyLark November 6, 2007 at 11:23 a.m.

Significantly, there is not a single case of someone with a WNU Resume not getting hired (or being fired because of WNU) in Corporate America (among the tens of thousands of resumes submitted).
The basis for hiring in America has never been linked with any specific "Accreditation" factor.
These Facist pinheads and their claims to link "Accreditation" with higher quality education largely amounts to post-facto guesswork abetted by statistical hijinks and imagination run amok.

Good News November 6, 2007 at 9:47 p.m.

"If WNU becomes accredited after I earn my degree, does the accreditation carry over. According to Dr. J. Bear, the authority on such matters-Yes it does. Enjoy!"

http://books.google.com/books?id=k67XC_7......

Excellent find! A cited reference from an actual expert on the subject!

So, Kennedy-Western degrees will always be junk, but there is hope for Warren National.

To Dr J: November 7, 2007 at 7:30 p.m.

True, I think..., So 1/1/2007 is the official start date of a new university, Warren National University. If they are truly seeking accreditation, my understanding is that the Warren National students beginning after 1/1/07 would be grandfathered in.

Posters to this site have said that WNU will gain regional accreditation in 2008, so we'll know soon.

Skeptic November 8, 2007 at 6:38 p.m.

Warren National does not have a prayer in getting accredited and I doubt if they really want to do that. It is too easy making money from the rubes the way things are. And the idea of previous graduates being "grandfathered in" is ludicrous.

A business that can issue paper that costs maybe 25 cents and sell it for several thousand is a high profit business. Now they do have a few legitimate professors as window dressing and perhaps these legitimate professors do wave their hand over an exam or two, but essentially the business model is to
sell a sheet of paper for several thousand dollars. Even though they do get criticized a good deal, you can see how a business model like that would be attractive. Sort of like printing 100 dollar bills.

To Skeptic: November 9, 2007 at 2:09 p.m.

My thoughts exactly. They (whoever owns it) have a cash cow, why go legit now?

Personally, I would load up the moving truck (again) and move the 6 employees in Wyoming to another state. Keep everyone else in California.

Skeptic November 10, 2007 at 5:28 a.m.

Degrees from diploma mills are a great national problem but one that is partly hidden becuase all too often the people who get them are not found out. Suppose you lived a few miles from a nuclear power plant, and the night shift supervisor has a degree from podunk university, a diploma mill, and the degree is in nuclear engineering. But naturally, being from a diploma mill, the "engineer" learned only about 5 percent of the information from the diploma mill that he would have learned from a legitimate university. Could you sleep well at night, knowing that the supervisor has a bogus degree?

On WNU November 10, 2007 at 1:10 p.m.

At the age of 22 I asked my college mentor whether or not my choice to attend KW/WNU for a graduate degree would lead me to actual work in my industry. And her response was, “Well, that’s really up to you.” I naively had assumed that a degree from a good school would guarantee industry employment. Isn’t that the purpose of obtaining a degree? Well, thousands of dollars and many years later, I now know better. “That’s really up to you” is another way of saying “No, a degree does not necessarily get you a job.” A degree is just a degree. A degree (specifically an MFA) will teach you how to do a skill, trade, or discipline better, faster, and more efficiently. But that hard-earned degree will absolutely not guarantee you a job. Not in today’s world of overpopulation, overcrowding, competition, diminishing resources, reduction of the middle-class, and post-dot-com-bust. No, a degree will get you, well, just a degree.

Wrong November 10, 2007 at 4:09 p.m.

"Some universities charge a fairly hefty fee for a verification service" - Less than $10 usually. Background checks are a cost of doing business.

"there are also schools that find out an instructor’s degree is fake and yet continue to employ them." - LOL, it's okay to help a fraudster? I'm not sure what sleazy school this would refer to, but the adminsitration and/or school board would just get dragged down with them.

You don't have to look very long or very far to see all kinds of examples of people getting nailed with fake credentials.

The recent firefighter snafu, the hundreds of teachers in Florida, Dennis O'Leary (Notre Dame coach for a week), Laura Callahn, Sandra Baldwin (US Olympic committee), the hundreds identified in the Kennedy Western Senate hearing, the Texas officials recently, the Radio Shack guy, the list goes on and on.

Fined, terminated, reprimanded. And this is the very very small % that make it outside the companys walls, since they are obviously doing everything they can to damage control internally.

re: Wrong November 10, 2007 at 10:51 p.m.

You are a complete idiot.

There has NEVER been a "Kennedy Western Senate hearing"

There was a Senate hearing regarding unaccredited diplomas and diploma mills, which KW was identified due to the FIRST issue, unaccredited.

PLEASE show me all of these hundreds that were identified. I have read the entire hearing, and I just can seem to find them.

Again, you are nothing more than an ignorant, incompetent moron. You must have attended an Accredited University

Kennedy Western diploma mill hearing text November 12, 2007 at 5:38 a.m.

". the schools we investigated take pains to try to convince prospective students that they are legitimate and that student have to earn their degrees. That is why a healthy dose of credit for work and life experience becomes such a critical component of their business model. That is what permits these more sophisticated diploma mills to assume an air of legitimacy while minimizing the actual amount of work required."

Our investigation has revealed that there seem to be two kinds of diploma mills. One is simply a printing press.

Others, such as Columbia State University, Kennedy Western and some of the others we have looked at, are more sophisticated. They require a modicum of work, but nothing close to what should be required for a legitimate degree. Obviously, you shouldn't be able to earn a degree in 27 days, the example we discussed yesterday and Senator Lieberman cited."

Nuke man November 13, 2007 at 3:05 a.m.

>>>>Most nuclear plant operators are X-Navy, enlisted. Few or no degrees in the control rooms.<<<<

I agree but the operation of a nuclear power plant involves far more people than just those in the control room. It is entirely possible that bogus degrees could adversely influence the safe operation of a nuclear plant. I know one fellow who got a diploma mill degree in Health Physics (a phony Ph.D.) and for a time occupied a high position related to the nuclear industry - until he was found out.

XNAVNUK November 13, 2007 at 3:41 a.m.

To NUKE-MAN
Shift supervisors in nuclear plants are in Operations Department and have to pass a tough licensing test every year. They can be found in the control room.
In my 30 years in the nuclear business, I have known few SS's to bother with a degree. Making 175K-200K/year, why waste the time.
The poster refered to a "Shift Supervisor".
Personally, I will trust an ex-navy nuclear power school graduate with a KW BSME degree over anyone else with an accredited BSME from, say,California Polytech or Georgia Tech. The discipline matters more than anything. Last I checked, universities are in the anti-discipline business.

Dad November 13, 2007 at 7:10 a.m.

"There is a difference between being the subject of an investigative hearing and being investigated. KW was the subject of a hearing."

Oh, I feel much better now and am going to run out and sign my kids up.

KW BSME November 13, 2007 at 7:52 a.m.

I had to cram all this stuff into my mind for the examinations, whether I liked it or not. This coercion had such a deterring effect on me that, after I had passed the final examination, I found the consideration of any scientific problems distasteful to me for an entire year."

Dr J November 13, 2007 at 8:15 a.m.

In punishing Warren National University for it's contempt of authority, fate made WNU an authority itself.

Shining the light on the "Accreditation Rats" November 13, 2007 at 8:38 a.m.

Academic freedom is the right to look for truth and to teach what one believes to be true. This right begs also a duty: one must not hide any part of what one has recognized to be the truth.

It is obvious that any government restriction on academic freedom (accreditation) acts in such a way as to hamper the dispersal of knowledge among the people and thereby impedes good national judgment and responsible action.

Whew! November 13, 2007 at 1:19 p.m.

"I had to cram all this stuff into my mind for the examinations, whether I liked it or not"

Finding words in the glossary for 1 open book exam can be challenging.

Hey Dad! November 13, 2007 at 4:52 p.m.

REF:"Oh, I feel much better now and am going to run out and sign my kids up."

Hey dad, WNU will not take your kids. Look into their guidlines. Your kids do not qualify.

You are the crown jewel of ignorance.

Even if you are typical government scum parasite and you spent your whole adult life trying to get your 80 IQ kids ready for college by teaching them the SAT over and over and over again, they still can not get in. They have to actually hold a job. Chances are good that you never actually held a job either.

Word November 13, 2007 at 5:13 p.m.

"Finding words in the glossary for 1 open book exam can be challenging."

Look Pal,it is obvious you never attended the school. My KW experience was horrible and I would not do it again!

Physics, Calculus, Heat X-fer, Thermo, Mechatronics, Materials (to name a few) tests were all problem solving with barely enough time to finish the tests. Open book does you no good on these.

Now granted, subjects like English and Writing were like you say, unbelievable easy, almost a joke.

The truth is, the only difficult courses in any degree are the Math, Science and Engineering disciplines.

Touchy feely courses like Psychology, Sociology, Business, and Language degrees for example are a joke no matter where they are taught. And these courses are truly a scam, even at Harvard or Yale.
These liberal arts courses are only good for teaching you to teach them to someone else. Like a pyramid scheme.
These Liberal Arts type courses remind me of the old SNL spoof ....."Learn to be a standby operator today! Just dial 1-800-453-8532-Operators are standing by!"

diploma mill blues November 15, 2007 at 3:42 a.m.

In one of the old refernces on Wikipedia, there was some information about complaints to the Better Business Bureau about Kennedy Western. There were something like 14 complaints over a year or so. Imagine how many dissatisfied customers there must have been to generate 14 complaints as many would not go to the trouble of filing a complaint.

BBB - look it up November 15, 2007 at 1:54 p.m.

http://www.mountainstates.bbb.org/WWWRoo......

According to the Better Business site, Warren National University has received 14 formal complaints in the last few years, some in each of these BBB categories:

1. Advertising Issues - Claims alleging print or electronic media advertised claims or practices misrepresent the service or product offer.

2. Billing or Collection Issues - Claim alleging billing errors, unauthorized charges, or questionable collection practices.

3. Sales Practice Issues - Claims of alleged sales presentations made in person or by telephone that contain misrepresentations of the product or service, high pressure sales practices, failure to disclose key conditions of the offer, and verbal representations not consistent with written contractual terms or agreements.

4. Product Issues - Claim alleging a product does not meet the expectations of the complainant, including defective merchandise.

5. Refund or Exchange Issues - Claim of alleged failure to honor company policy or verbal commitment to provide refunds, exchanges, or credit for products or services.

And AFAIK, this is a worthless statistic tho, because most claims are settled before it gets to this stage.

ML November 16, 2007 at 3:58 a.m.

I had the opportunity to take classes at WNU. The texts were first class, the instructors were Ph.D.s from Purdue, Kentucky and so on. I have completed graduate degrees at Boston University and Univ of Northern Colorado. The program at WNU is on par with the other "accredited" schools. Had the chance to review a number of dissertations from Pac 10 schools....the dissertation I was required to submit was better researched, more analytical and used twice the average number of references. I would challenge naysayers to take a course. In addition, most admissions teams have a staff of "telemarketers" in order to meet enrollment numbers. Plus I got credit for most of the below listed "life skills" that were dismissed as unwarranted at a well known Cal State University....only in my day they were taken for 3 credits hours toward a BA.

*Playing Tennis (PE in my day)
*Buying a Persian Carpet (Marketing class was great!)
*Watching Public Television (Think that was Multi-media 101)
*Eating in Exotic Restaurants (Culinary 201)
*Being Dungeon master (Software Development class - right on!)
*Pressing flowers (Home Economics 301)
*Keeping tropical fish (Ag 151)

Goes to show that naysayers have no perspective on life!

BBB on WNU November 16, 2007 at 12:11 p.m.

A good rating. We would expect nothing less than a satisfactory business transaction.

WNU is accredited! November 16, 2007 at 12:23 p.m.

I noticed WNU was accredited by the BBB.

Q? November 16, 2007 at 12:46 p.m.

Does anyone have any idea what the differance there would be between MIT and WNU. I am currently enrolled in MIT's M.S. degree program and I am looking to transefer.

Scammed November 16, 2007 at 1:19 p.m.

Yes, I did attend. I found out the hard way that KWU is total garbage when tried to upgrade one of my professional engineering certifications and was turned down

Anyone that attends this university is naive or dishonest.

I was naive, which are you?

Ref: I was naive, which are you? November 16, 2007 at 1:34 p.m.

You were not naive, you were just dumber than dog poop.
KW/WNUs literature and websites have always stated that their degrees were not usable for G-jobs or professional licensing.
It scares me that someone as non-detail oriented as you were even able to get a PE. It took me three tries at the test to get that bad boy passed and I used to teach Engineering at Auburn.
You have not signed off on any bridges or structures near Birmingham lately, have you?

English 101 November 16, 2007 at 5:36 p.m.

Thats WNU doesn't even want it's own "graduates."

Y&Y November 16, 2007 at 6:05 p.m.

REF-"Graduates of KWU/WNU are not considered for Adjunct Faculty positions."

Nice snippet.

That is because teaching requires licensure. KW has never made a secret of this. The WNU degree is for people who want to make a ton of money. Last I checked, teaching paid less than Bussing Tables at Captain D's.
Someone already self employed who competes for private corporate contracts just needs an edge over the competition. They can spend 25K-50K and 3 years at an accredited online school or 8K and 18 months at WNU.
HR people at companies (who have an accreditation policy) are generally overwhelmed, too lazy to check and not too bright.
I do not know if many people are aware this or not, but private corporations HATE BIG GOVERNMENT. Many will hire WNU graduates to spite BIG GOVERNMENT. A ying and yang characteristic to the WNU snydrome has many people in academia baffled.
Another element that hates government is the mob, and you are a chump if you do not think they have massive power. They control the unions, the docks, shipping lines and probably your dad if you are from NJ or NY.
Make no mistake, accreditation has been taken over by the Feds. It's government against Corporate America. May the best entity win!

TACY POC November 16, 2007 at 6:28 p.m.

I could study anywhere. I have good B&M undergraduate & MBA degrees, a decent GMAT etc. I have a demanding job that I really enjoy. The cost of taking a leave of absence to study full-time at a great school would not make financial sense. I did extensive research, and find that the WNU curriculum in my field is the best thought-out and most aligned to my needs. I am including B&M schools in this analysis. I have designed curriculum for a top school, and I know good design when I see it. I am not trying to pass off my PhD as anything it isn't. I don't think my PhD will change my life, or my opportunities - my personal makeup will continue to drive my success. I don't want to be in a cohort - been there, done that. I love teams, but I have my hands full of them at work, and don't want to either "carry" or have to wait for other group members at school. The nature of my work is that there are busy times and slow times. Being able to speed up or slow down my progress through courses is a huge benefit. I am genuinely interested in my subject, and am doing this as a hobby as much as anything. I have "gotten ahead" plenty already, and am mostly looking to add a little brain food to the tail end of my career. I don't need my hand held. I am prepared to learn on my own and take a risk on my assignments (nobody will be looking at my 'marks'). I don't need someone to prescribe every little step of the way or tell me "exactly what they expect" from me, beyond the general marching orders. The bottom line is that I haven't chosen WNU out of lack of better options. I am genuinely impressed with their program and their delivery style. It isn't easy by any means, and is certainly not light-weight. I would say if your story is anything like mine, and you are favorably impressed with WNU's programs - go for it!

Wrong 2 November 16, 2007 at 6:37 p.m.

"Also will not take any Nationally Accredited graduates either. Just like MIT."

Does MIT put a disclaimer on their employment section that they won't even consider MIT graduates for employment because they consider their own university to be substandard?

Even other unaccredited schools like Rochville don't do that.

<><><><>Diamonds<><><> November 17, 2007 at 1:39 p.m.

MIT has hired many more foreign professors (mostly european) than MIT graduates.

Comments from a chemist November 17, 2007 at 7:48 p.m.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>I spent two years reviewing programs before I finally settled on WNU's program in chemistry. Amazing! The courses were challenging - the professors top notch - and my peers were some of the most amazing professionals<<<<<

hmm...a legitimate degree in chemistry requires a very substantial amount of laboratory work. Since WNU has no laboratories, that seems to be a bit of a problem, doesn't it?

Who do you trust? November 18, 2007 at 9:53 a.m.

Government or Christian Science Monitor-

WNU ,cutting edge, anti-cheating programs have accredited ie., "cheating" universities on the run. They are scared, quite scared.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0427/p15s0...

So? November 19, 2007 at 3:37 a.m.

"Will have all mention of the degree removed", "Personnel matters" being investigated, etc."

Point to a conviction anywhere of a KW degree being used in the free-market (non-govt, non education). You can't. KW has always said that the degree was not for licensing, govt or higher ed teaching.
The jobs on your "non-biased diploma mill blog" that people got in trouble for are low paying teaching and government sector jobs. I believe they are supplementing their income with welfare to support their families.
Folks, the big money is in free enterprise, not poverty level G-jobs and teaching! Do not buy into the garbage on this site about accreditation. I have bid on and won many private contracts with my KW BSEE. I made 500K+ last year and about 350K this year (I took 4 months off this year for sailing my 80ft sailboat from Miami to Austrailia).
A free spirit and a belief in USA free-market is far more valuable than any degree. And yes, I got the KW degree because it is fast and easy. Why waste precious time on an education when the big money is in making deals.
Get the BSXX on your resume and stay away from G-jobs.

WORD

They have some honesty I admit. November 19, 2007 at 5:24 a.m.

I have to admit that they do tell you this before signing up. In mailings and talking with their career counselors (telemarketers in disguise) they make this well known. The following is also on their Gen. Info web page. Easy to find, right out front.

Licenses and Credentials
The University is oriented to those individuals not seeking licenses or credentials. If a license or a credential is desired, a search should be conducted on state and federal association and credential requirements before applying. We are approved to receive the test results of the American College Testing Program (ACT) and Graduate Management Admission Council (GMAT).

Hmmm November 19, 2007 at 5:43 a.m.

That covers licenses, how about government employment or higher ed teaching?

Where? November 19, 2007 at 6:42 a.m.

"KW has always said that the degree was not for licensing, govt or higher ed teaching."

True on the license part. But completely false on the others. In fact, they are promoting government employment and higher ed employment with the testimonials in the KWU catalog.

Quote 1: "My original goal was to advance my career with the Department of Defense... I'm very proud to say that I have done just that"

Quote 2: From a Federal Aviation employee,

Quote 3: Employee of Life College

No mention of all the other restrictions, disclaimers, etc.

WTF November 19, 2007 at 10:40 a.m.

REF:" True on the license part. But completely false on the others. In fact, they are promoting government employment and higher ed employment with the testimonials in the KWU catalog."

What are you freakin blind! You boneheads always quote Wickipedia when it suits your bogus declarations but look the other way when it does not.

Did you attend KW Sir?

I doubt it.

Soliciting advice November 19, 2007 at 11:35 a.m.

Does anyone have any idea what the differance there would be between Harvard and WNU. I am currently enrolled in Harvards PHD program and I am looking to transefer.

No Student Support November 19, 2007 at 1:19 p.m.

In this week's round of KW"U" alumni being exposed, one was a career higher ed employee and one was a career government employee.

Apparently it didn't come up during intake that the degree would be unacceptable for them.

So, a vague, one sentence disclaimer in the marketing materials is the only warning they get, even though we talk to admission counselors and have our prior experience evaluated for mucho credits? And in the same marketing materials they are promoting higher ed and government employment?

Glad I got out when I did.

Misc November 19, 2007 at 7:54 p.m.

"WNU often does not care how or where you get previous training and knowledge"

They don't care at all, and its been reported repeatedly that they don't even verify any of the "life experience".

I do miss the little calculator they used to have on their website that would estimate what % of your degree they would waive. You could get close to 60% if you put in the right numbers.

Why we need accreditation November 20, 2007 at 9:29 a.m.

The indisputably most intelligent and famous single man that ever walked the earth had no degree. I hope everyone knows who that is.

Accreditation is a mostly misunderstood concept. The original intention was believe it or not a real good one. The path to hell is paved with good intentions right?

What started as a noble idea (of accrediting higher learning to make things better) only made things worse.

People used to study as to gain knowledge, and your net worth to society was measured in how well you conversed and conveyed what you knew to your peers in a given discipline. Even if you never went to a university, you could learn from books and if you were good enough even find yourself very well off (in the circles of the elite). The resume was not used.
The opposite is true today. How much you know does not matter at all. It matters how much you know for the test with a good brain dump after the test.
Those who purge their brains the best after a test are most ready for the next cram session. Those who take the longest to learn a concept also usually are not only the most creative but also take the longest to forget that concept. Thus the classroom system rewards those non creative individuals most likely to forget every thing they learn. GREAT!
Enter the resume, circa 1910. Now people can brag on paper about how well they binged (cram studied) and purged (brain dumped) 15 years ago. They usually remember very little about what they learned in their courses.
How odd it is that the way you advertise yourself on your resume has rules to follow in Texas. Even more odd is that your actual performance on the job matters very little in Texas government jobs (due in large part to affirmative action, no one wants to be the person, for example, who says something bad about a black female’s performance on the job).

So performance has no rules but resumes do?

Now the theory was that the more information someone crams into their head, the more information that will remain there 5 years from now. Not true, but let us assume it is.

Accreditation increases the quality and quantity of the information in the binge and purge. Yea, that’s it!

Accreditation requires no tests 2 or 3 or 5 years out of college to defend the degree (or lose it). This is because all university students would lose their degrees ten years after graduation.

The DOE was never supposed to accredit universities as this is a violation of the 10th amendment to the US constitution.

They grade the accreditors and the accreditors grade the Universities. That is until the University can no longer afford the extortion money for payola to the DOE. Then the university goes under. They (DOE) have begun using accreditation as tool to control what universities teach, mind control. Bad times are a coming.
Roll over Thomas Jefferson.

What is 98? November 20, 2007 at 11:46 p.m.

It is the average university graduates IQ in 2005.

Compare that to 132 back in 1959 when there was no accreditation.

Famous World Wide! November 21, 2007 at 3:45 a.m.

The Irish Times listed with commentary the following twelve education businesses in an article entitled,

"A dirty dozen - 12 famous diploma mills."
1. Columbia State University, Louisiana: Shut down by the Attorney-General of Louisiana.
2. La Salle University, Louisiana: Claims to be restructuring itself after its founder president was jailed and the premises were raided by the FBI.
3. Chadwick University, Alabama: claims accreditation from a bogus agency.
4. American State University, Hawaii: Recently offered an American reporter a bachelor's degree in journalism for $1,890 and a thesis of a mere 2,000 words.
5. American International University, Alabama.
6. Columbus University, Louisiana.
7. Monticello University, Kansas:
8. Frederick Taylor University, California.
9. Pacific Western University, Hawaii: offering to "match your position with a legal degree and transcripts."
10. City University of Los Angeles, California:
11. Kennedy Western University, Hawaii. (Name has changed to Warren National University.)
12. Trinity College and University; operates from Delaware, USA; Spain; and the United Kingdom. In February, 2007, several United Nations staff were fired from their jobs after it was discovered they had padded their resumes with Trinity "degrees".

A new, old low. November 22, 2007 at 12:04 p.m.

The Irish. Drunks and thievs. Thomas Jefferson 1792.

On "Illegal Degree" Laws November 22, 2007 at 12:29 p.m.

"Laws too gentle are seldom obeyed; too severe, seldom executed."

Thanks-Giving message to WNU students. November 22, 2007 at 1:21 p.m.

We are now on the verge of vast change -changes so wondrously important and significant that we will upset the present (and need I say boring) trend of human thought and start it along completely new lines .

PT Barnum November 22, 2007 at 4:34 p.m.

"WNU ,cutting edge, anti-cheating programs "

Who needs to cheat at KWU / WNU? If you have a pulse, you are halfway to a degree, then look through the glossary on a few multiple choice open book exams.

DNA November 23, 2007 at 6:18 a.m.

Soon, your genetic DNA will determine your value in the work-place!
The national genome project is quickly linking genetics to longevity, health, motivational qualities, and intelligence.

Those of us that brought you university accreditation will also usher in a new era of genetic-qualification.

We will phase one program in as we phase the other out.

The two characteristics that determine university success are motivation and intelligence. As it turns out there are about 5 genes that determine these characteristics. The quick cheek swab and DNA testing can be done in about one week (vs. 4 years for a degree). After we get everyone in the countries DNA tests completed, we can begin taking degrees away from the sub-standard people, you know, the ones that slipped through the cracks and somehow got a degree where their genes did not warrant such an accomplishment. Perhaps our greatest fear is that WNU students might be DNA superior, but we will cross that road when we get there.
http://www.clt.astate.edu/aromero/popula...

Check the source on that November 25, 2007 at 1:25 a.m.

That handy article was written by a "Dr." Hoyer who was involved with the Kennedy Western University / Warren National University outfit

"Dr. Hoyer is the former Chair of the Environmental and Safety Engineering Department at Kennedy-Western University"

Of course the first article on this Kennedy Western cornerstone that pops up on Google is:

"Feds investigate diploma mills: Sites in West raided; records that name local man are sought" by Steve Orr, Rochester, New York Democrat and Chronicle, August 17, 2005.

"Federal authorities are conducting a criminal probe of suspected "diploma mills" that could involve bogus accreditation supplied by a Liberian government official — and a Rochester-area man appears to be at least tangentially involved in the case.

An affidavit filed in court by a Secret Service agent said the colleges sell degrees to "students" and require little or no coursework.

The affidavit said an agent obtained four bogus degrees from the online institutions while working undercover earlier this year.

Richard J. Hoyer, an Irondequoit resident with a history of involvement in online colleges, is identified in the affidavit as having been connected to St. Regis and the Liberian accreditation gambit in the past.

In stories published in 2003, the Democrat and Chronicle reported that Hoyer had drawn scrutiny from education regulators in at least three states. New York ordered him to cease operating an online homeland-security college in October 2003 because it had no state authorization.

The newspaper also reported that Hoyer was involved with an entity that was arranging accreditation in the name of the African nation of Liberia."

Dr. Hoyer... November 25, 2007 at 4:59 a.m.

Is a fine example of Kennedy Western "faculty" and integrity.

This too? November 26, 2007 at 4:41 p.m.

All of the US public schools are accredited. Yet we are graduating 18 year olds who can’t make change without a calculator and can’t spell.

Fate November 28, 2007 at 2:18 p.m.

I never finished my KW degree. I dropped out after failing Heat transfer and thermo.

My "wealthy parented" friend who finished a 4 year degree at Emory (cost $85K) a year ago, and never did get a job, just filed bankruptcy in October, had a nervous breakdown and is in an asylum in Milledgevill somewhere.

A truly lucky spell landed me a job at Atlanta Airport working with my step-grandfather making 50K a year to start (learning to be an air-traffic controller).
Guess my step-grandfather credential was more important than her Emory degree. Glad I only lost two thousand dollars at KW.

Grad Rate November 28, 2007 at 8:21 p.m.

"I never finished my KW degree. I dropped out after failing Heat transfer and thermo"

Wow, that drops the KWU / WNU graduation rate to 99.99999%

North Dakota November 28, 2007 at 8:45 p.m.

"it is illegal to use a false credential for employment, higher education admission, or in connection with a business or profession. Doing so carries a Class A misdemeanor..."

Pretty clear again. Better call them back!

He is right November 29, 2007 at 6:38 p.m.

d. Does not operate in this state and is:
(1) Licensed by the appropriate state agency; and
(2) An active applicant for accreditation by an accrediting body recognized
by the United States secretary of education; or...

Thanks, good resources there November 29, 2007 at 8:15 p.m.

The North Dakota site does have some good resources. In their pamphlet titled “Is This a Real Degree, How to Avoid a Bogus Degree from a Diploma Mill”, you can research more about the shortcomings of Kennedy-Western / Warren National and other unaccredited institutions at:

The Oregon Office of Degree Authorization -
www.osac.state.or.us/oda/

Degree Info.com - www.degreeinfo.com

National Clearinghouse – www.degreeverify.com

Unconventional University Diplomas from Online Vendors Fraud, Corruption and Scandal: Buying a PhD: - www.hep.uiuc.edu/home/g-gollin/diploma_m...

So WNU is legal in ND? November 30, 2007 at 10:20 a.m.

But the below two clauses in the ND code does make WNU legal in North Dakota, right?

4. As used in this section, "duly authorized institution of higher learning"
d. Does not operate in this state and is:
(1) Licensed by the appropriate state agency; and
(2) An active applicant for accreditation by an accrediting body recognized
by the United States secretary of education; or

Texas November 30, 2007 at 10:25 a.m.

Texas lists WNU specifically though.

Anyone Anyone? November 30, 2007 at 1:59 p.m.

Well, I can read the Senate investigation and approximately 15 articles from this blog alone that show that Kennedy Western / Warren National is decidely substandard if not borderline diploma mill in quality.

Can anyone post a positive article about either organization from an independent source?

Hey Dummy! November 30, 2007 at 4:17 p.m.

The average person and most professionals have no idea what accreditation is, they believe or have been told through out the years, that accreditation equals a legitimate degree. This is not true! In fact it takes four years for a college to become accredited, making it technically impossible to disallow unaccredited schools. With this mindset, no new college or university could ever open.

Yep November 30, 2007 at 4:34 p.m.

"The School has the highest GPA of any school going"

I suspect this is true. 100% acceptance, 100% graduation, 100% 4.0's

Can anyone post a positive article about either organization from an independent source to counter all the exposes and investigations?

SS November 30, 2007 at 4:47 p.m.

The dirty little secret is?

I am sure everyone remembers the Coast Guard Lady who "Investigated KW". Investigation 101 says finish the job (in this case she should have obtained the degree in say 11 or 12 months to prove how easy the degree was-right?). Why did she not finish the coursework and make a real provable case?
Do forensic crime investigators find a suspect and quit investigating? WTF!
The answer to this is easy. The floor is open for anyone who thinks they know the answer.

Roland Gervais December 1, 2007 at 12:51 a.m.

Dear Friend and others,

I must say that the experience I had with WNU was fantastic.
After earning a BS in engineering, I decided to take an online degree course to see what it was like. After speaking with some friends, one of told me about WNU.

Wow, what a great experience! The course work was much more difficult than the course work at the local college that I went to.

Would I tell others to go, you bet!

Happy Holidays

Govt. against Business December 2, 2007 at 5:09 a.m.

I think a lot of people are missing the boat big time. Corporations usually hate government and everything that goes with it. You can not be a successful business person unless you have some disdain for Big Government. Ever notice that almost all truly self made successful people are either Libertarians or Republicans?
Democrats like to suck up to big government because they can not survive in a competitive environment.
The best job I ever got was because of my pro second amendment stance. The guy who hired me liked guns and I liked guns.
Libertarians and true Republicans hate and I mean HATE the Dept. of Education.
We might hire the guy with the non DOE accredited credential just to spite state and federal governments.

The Best December 2, 2007 at 12:13 p.m.

I’ve always been interested in improving the quality of life for others. That’s why I work in Structural Engineering. This KWU degree gives me tools I can take into the real world and implement.
I actually researched the best engineering schools for a good solid year. I researched every school there was—traditional schools as well as online colleges—and after a year of research where I put together all the different courses that you would need to take, I calculated how much it would cost, the amount of time it would take, and the different programs that were offered, it really boiled down to KWU as the very best choice. And that’s how I came to choose KWU.
What I really like about Warren National University is the vast diversity that it offers. I’ve met students from Germany and Africa, as well as all across the United States. What you get from that is a blending of cultures, different opinions, and different viewpoints, and a view of how Engineering is applied globally, not just within your region, state, or country.
When these pea-brains on this site condemn WNU, it is out of total ignorance.
Just wish I could have them see me boarding my Lear with my super-model wife and $80K platinum Rolex.
I would just love to see them turn green with envy.

I agree - get that degree in a few weeks December 3, 2007 at 6:50 a.m.

I assume this question is from the Senate investigation of Kennedy-Western University titled "Bogus Degrees and Unmet Expectations: Are Taxpayer Dollars Subsidizing Diploma Mills?"

I took a quick look and it was where a Senator asked a Coast Guard member to enroll in Kennedy-Western University as part of the investigation. She applied to a Masters degree program in Engineering.

Kennedy-Western immediately waived 43% of the Engineering master's degree requirements, based on her JOURNALISM degree and some random seminars attended. She even notes that "they asked for no proof or documenation" and "As a note, I have no formal engineering training".

No matter, she was well on her way to a Master's degree in Engineering. Then of the remaining 5 classes left for a Master's degree, the student knocked off 2 of the 5 classes in a grand total of 16 hours and said that each "course" was an open-book exam where she had to pick terms out of the glossary.

I agree with the above poster, she should have sucked in up for a week or two and spent the 8 hours each for the 3 remaining courses and gotten her Master's Degree in Engineering.

www.access.gpo.gov/congress/senate/pdf/1...

Found it for you December 3, 2007 at 9:23 p.m.

Should have looked looked closer, she answers your question directly during the Senate investigation of Kennedy-Western University titled "Bogus Degrees and Unmet Expectations: Are Taxpayer Dollars Subsidizing Diploma Mills?"

"Not long after, I withdrew from the school, as by then we had a good sense of Kennedy-Western's academic program. With just 16 hours of study, I had completed 40 percent of the course requirements for my Master's degree"

(That's 2/5 open book exams after they waived 6 graduate engineering courses for her Journalism degree and some seminars)

ss December 4, 2007 at 2:49 a.m.

That is what she said, but that is not the real reason. .............................Anyone else?

Dr. Charles Mintz IV December 4, 2007 at 3:15 a.m.

Also, she was going for Environmental Engineering. This is faux engineering. Just like "Computer Engineering", "Hair Style Engineering" and "Safety Engineering" all fantasy engineering courses.

When I transfered from Emory to GA. Tech, I was given about 40% credits for the overlap courses going from BS in Nursing to BSEE. Is it so far off mark that she get 43% for her past experiences (including her BS)at KW?

James R. Otteson December 4, 2007 at 5:53 a.m.

I suggest that the case of government support for education is analogous to the case of government support for religion, and therefore the moral acceptability of the one is the same as that of the other. My suggestion hinges on the claim that both cases fall under the rubric of freedom of conscience, and hence both should be protected on the moral principle that everyones private conscience is inviolable and ought therefore to be safeguarded.

Clearing up the confusion December 4, 2007 at 4:56 p.m.

"When I transfered from Emory to GA. Tech, I was given about 40% credits for the overlap courses going from BS in Nursing to BSEE. Is it so far off mark that she get 43% for her past experiences (including her BS)at KW?"

Big difference, in your example, there are actual credits from taking actual courses at an actual university. They would cancel out some general requirements for another undergraduate degree, that makes sense. You should be granted 0% towards a graduate degree.

This Kennedy Western University student applied with zero graduate credits going in, and Kennedy Western University telemarketers magically waived a bunch of graduate level courses based on unverified claims of going to seminars.

The Senate Investigation of Kennedy Western says that:

“We were told that EVERY student in the Master’s program is awarded between 33 and 60 percent credit toward a degree for their experience. In fact, documents produced by Kennedy-Western indicated that nearly half of all students in the Master’s program have received more than 55 percent credit for their experience”.

I feel bad for those suckers that only got 1/3 of their degree free when a good negotiator could have gotten 60% and knocked days off getting that “degree”.

It's a great hook to get people signed up, but just one of many reasons why this school has been proven to be so substandard.

If you can get a job with education, December 5, 2007 at 12:01 p.m.

how come not vise versa.

So Cool December 5, 2007 at 4:59 p.m.

WNU is one of few major institutions that will allow you to transfer in 100% of your degree requirements. While they do offer considerable coursework of their own, they will very often accept credit from most RA colleges, CLEP/DANTES/ECE exams, ACE evaluated military experience... and, they're very generous by most transfer standards.

The BS degrees offer the most flexibility in program design and therefor in acceptability of transfer credit.

If you have a collection of credit already from the acceptable sources, WNU should be among the colleges you consider. It's fantastic for those people who didn't quite finish their younger college experience and for those who have attended a large number of colleges and need the credits earned placed on a single transcript toward a good, highly recognized and well respected, degree.

It's possible to wrap a bachelor's degree at WNU for right around $6500. I've spent just about $7000 on mine.

Try the Big Three instead December 5, 2007 at 8:32 p.m.

"It's possible to wrap a bachelor's degree at WNU for right around $6500. I've spent just about $7000 on mine."

Sorry to hear that. You could have gotten a legitimate, regionally accredited degree through one of the Big Three (Thomas Edison, Excelsior, or Charter Oak) that will accept credits in transfer. You can read about them here:

http://distancelearn.about.com/od/online...

Warning, unlike Kennedy Western, you will actually have to have completed credits or show proficiency by exam, they will not give you half of a degree for simply applying.

True December 5, 2007 at 8:52 p.m.

Thomas Edison, Excelsior, or Charter Oak are a joke at Harvard. This site is a joke.

How to get Graduate credit at KWU December 6, 2007 at 2:24 a.m.

"If I remember correctly, she failed the first test she took
Right?"

True, she had neither read nor reviewed the material before taking it, nor had she done any coursework prior taking the final exam. Students could order the final exam immediately on enrollment.

Luckily, she was "able to answer most of them by simply looking up a key word in the index" but after she failed she noticed that "a number of the questions had been graded incorrectly" and that "several questions had no possible correct answer provided in the choices"

She filed a grade challenge, and the school declared the test invalid, acknowledging "significant errors". Ms. Gelzer was sent a letter of apology and was allowed to retake the exam, which turned out to be the EXACT SAME ONE.

100 open book multiple choice questions = 1 graduate "course" granted within days of enrollment.

Dr. Martin Shamblin December 6, 2007 at 2:44 p.m.

"I have not signed up yet, but now I do not know who to believe."

Go to a real school with a building.

It is true. All online university degrees including the accredited ones are useless. We just throw them in the trash. They are all Diploma Mills.
Any HR person who does their job will screen away these sham "degrees". Trust me, there is no such thing as an online degree that is respected.

Instead of getting an online degree just forge one yourself. Any color laser printer will produce a fine replica.

Grissom December 6, 2007 at 3:24 p.m.

"Go to a real school with a building.

It is true. All online university degrees including the accredited ones are useless. We just throw them in the trash. They are all Diploma Mills."

Here Here!
Finally some sanity on this Blog.

We will even choose an unaccredited school degree that has an actual building and address over the so called "Accredited Online Universities." They are all a scam and should be closed down by the government.
Online + Degree = Oxymoron

Prof A December 6, 2007 at 9:37 p.m.

The Internet has been a boon and a bane for education, making it easier for unaccredited diploma mills to throw up a site, change their name, etc. At the same time, there dozens of absolutely wonderful opportunities out there for working adults.

Before you enroll, always check at the CHEA website to verify if they are regionally accredited.

For experienced working adults, I recommend three online avenues depending on the situation:

If you are looking for a respected name school, check out Penn State.
If you are looking for a low-cost, no-name option for a degree, check out Peru State (Nebraska).
If you have a collection of college courses from a variety of accredited schools, check out Excelsior. Many military folks end up in this situtation depending on their deployment.

If you feel more comfortable with an online program with a local presence, the options are endless. If you are in Ohio, check out Franklin University, if you are in Michigan, check out Davenport, Wisconsin-Lakeland College, Florida-Nova Southeastern, Minnesota-Capella, Idaho-Boise State online, etc etc.

chemist December 10, 2007 at 2:12 a.m.

In Nevada the state passed a new law in 2005, making it illegal to use a degree that can be considered false or misleading. The penalty is up to six months in jail and/or a $5,000 fine. Any degree not from an accredited university or if obtained with more than 10 percent credit for life experience, is considered false or misleading, whether or not the granting organization is in the state.

chemist December 10, 2007 at 2:28 a.m.

Quite often, those will diploma mill degrees have other characteristics which disqualify them for employment. The text below was taken from the Washington Post:

"A D.C. elementary school principal who claimed a doctorate from a phony school has been removed from her position, according to District education officials.

Since 2002, Wilma Durham had headed Walker-Jones Elementary School, one of 15 "transformation schools" that were targeted for additional resources because of persistently low student performance. Parents and teachers had accused her of having an authoritarian and eccentric leadership style, saying she prohibited students and teachers from talking in the school cafeteria and made inappropriate remarks over the public address system."

Hey you loving government punk December 10, 2007 at 3:08 a.m.

"I have confidence that most senators can tell the difference between legitimate degrees and diploma mills. I certainly do trust them on this issue."

Oh! I must have touched a nerve. Is your mommy a Senator?

Hey Punk December 10, 2007 at 3:15 a.m.

Last night the University of Colorado Board of Regents voted to fire professor Ward Churchill on the grounds of “serious, repeated, and deliberate research misconduct.” This vote came more than two years after the university investigated Churchill for making controversial public statements, including a reference to the victims of the World Trade Center attacks as “little Eichmanns.” FIRE released an analysis of the situation in 2005, determining that Churchill’s statements are protected and that the university’s initial investigation was unconstitutional. FIRE further cautioned that while the university’s investigation of Churchill’s research misconduct must not be swayed by anger over the content of his statements, Churchill was not immune to such scrutiny. FIRE wrote that Churchill freely injected himself into the public square, and that if “information that … legitimately places his job in jeopardy” came to light, “then that is simply the hazard of voluntarily participating in the marketplace of ideas.”

All OL schools are Diploma Mills December 10, 2007 at 9:24 a.m.

There is no such thing as an accredited and legitimate online school. The purpose of All Online Schools is make money and illegally provide students with bogus degrees. These diploma mills allow students to cheat on tests using resource sharing.

Again, there is no such thing as a legitimate online/internet school.

These are schools you should avoid. If you are going to spend time and money on your education, you should take the time to persue a real degree from a real University with walls and doors and desks.

I can not think of one Company that will accept an online degree of any kind, not one.

All Online schools (for profit telemarketers) have purchased their accreditation.

Just like KW is getting ready to buy accreditation by wining and dining the agencies.

I wish these corrupt senators would do something.

Online Schools are FRAUDS! December 10, 2007 at 9:48 a.m.

Proof that all Online Schools (Excelsior, Thomas Edison, Warren National) are FRAUDS.

Online school Rochville University can deliver your degree in 3-5 business days

Online Almeda University will grant you a degree for life experience

Online Hamilton University conferred a doctorate, based primarily on a 4 page paper, to a gal in Homeland Security!

There have even been online schools that gave degrees to Dogs, Cats, and Parakeets.

And those are only a few of the cases that made the paper. Who knows what multiple of that were discovered and handled quietly to avoid public embarrassment, and those waiting to be discovered.

Online Schools are FRAUDS! December 10, 2007 at 9:56 a.m.

Susan Collins and Senator Lieberman are the ones that were the leads while investigating online schools. Senator Collins even picked up an online "degree" or two in the deal.

Me too December 10, 2007 at 10 a.m.

I have confidence that most senators can tell the difference between legitimate degrees and online degrees. I certainly do trust them on this issue.

Circles December 10, 2007 at 10:17 a.m.

KW/WNU debates always go nowhere, but in circles. No winners or losers, just circles.

Hey Moose Dung December 11, 2007 at 6:06 a.m.

In reference to the replica chemist that posted-

"In Nevada the state passed a new law in 2005, making it illegal to use a degree that can be considered false or misleading. The penalty is up to six months in jail and/or a $5,000 fine. Any degree not from an accredited university or if obtained with more than 10 percent credit for life experience, is considered false or misleading, whether or not the granting organization is in the state."

Read the code moose breath. Since most KW graduates like myself only had academic credit transfer we break the 10% requirement.
Also since a semicolon is an "AND" in the code then since KW is state licensed and has applied for accreditation the Nevada argument is oficially dead. Even if tou had job experience > 10%.

Here is what you found convenient to leave out.

4. For the purposes of this section, a degree or honorary degree is false or misleading or is used in a false or misleading manner if it:

(a) States or suggests that the person named in the degree or honorary degree has completed the requirements of an academic or professional program of study in a particular field of endeavor beyond the secondary school level and the person has not, in fact, completed the requirements of the program of study;

(b) Is offered as his own by a person other than the person who completed the requirements of the program of study; or

(c) Is awarded, bestowed, conferred, given, granted, conveyed or sold:

(1) Based upon more than 10 percent of the recipient’s documented life experience and not based upon actual completion of academic work;

(2) By a person or entity located in this State in violation of this chapter, as determined by the Commission; or

(3) By a person or entity located outside this State which would be a violation of this chapter if the person or entity were located in this State, as determined by the Commission.

Nay Nay Moose Breath December 11, 2007 at 9:37 a.m.

“We were told that EVERY student in the Master’s program is awarded between 33 and 60 percent credit toward a degree for their experience. In fact, documents produced by Kennedy-Western indicated that nearly half of all students in the Master’s program have received more than 55 percent credit for their experience”.

That is past history, years old. They no longer do that.

Even so, you ignor the semi-colon between (2) and (3) negating everything you claim. Semi colon means "and" there. Ask a Lawyer.

Not to mention WNU only gave me credit towarsds a BSME based on ACE/SMART Navy College transcripts (accredited credits). No job experience credit here.

- December 11, 2007 at 10:01 a.m.

There are literally thousands of people using their WNU degrees in private industry in the so called "Illegal States"

Notice how these states only expose government workers. Yes Ed. is government also.

They will not go after people practicing in the free market.

Here is why.
The Dept of Ed. is an Unconstitutional mandate. It is illegal under the US constitution for the Dept of Ed. to even recognize certain accreditation agencies over others and set up a defacto "Ministry of Education".

The first states AG to enforce their illegal laws will be made an example of and may even end up abolishing the DOE altogther.

2007 December 12, 2007 at 3:01 a.m.

REF.KW University granted me more than half a DOCTORATE for continuing ed seminars and "life experience" in mid-2006, I have the "degree plan" to prove it.

The changes occured in 2007.

Prof A December 13, 2007 at 2:37 p.m.

Couldn't agree with you more, chemist.

Why change now, they have a great cash cow. Keep state-hopping. Even though California, Idaho, and Hawaii have kicked them out, and Wyoming finally cracked down, there are still plenty of other states to move the PO Box to.

I'd milk being an "applicant" for accreditation as long as possible, pack up the moving trucks again, and blame it on "the system".

chemist December 15, 2007 at 3:14 a.m.

Answer to anon: If you want a decent education, stay away from online "schools". There may be a very few in the country that are of good quality but usually these are an extension of a legitimate school with an actual campus. It is easy to be fooled by an online diploma mill because they go to great lengths to simulate legitimate schools.

Legal or illegal? December 15, 2007 at 3:26 a.m.

>>>>Granted, WNU is perfectly illegal in ND and every other state in the union including Tx<<<<

I think you meant legal but if you meant legal, you are mistaken. It is illegal in Nevada for instance.

q December 19, 2007 at 9:43 p.m.

To whoever posted "Even a special ed student could get a 4.0 at this so-called college, but you should look elsewhere if you actually want to use it for something."

So you attended WNU?

response December 26, 2007 at 3:12 a.m.

Obtaining an accreditation is 'stamp' to verify that a particular business meets the standard it sets out to deliver. One of the purpose is to ensure trust and provide security for the public. An unaccreditated school does not necessarily mean that the school delivers quality or substandard education. The notion that accreditated school is the 'only' way of obtaining quality education is an assumption, which, without fact is a mere statement that is invalid.

Yet another Kennedy Western Expose December 26, 2007 at 7:29 p.m.

More Kennedy-Western University and sister college Almeda graduates exposed in the media. Tampa Bay area.

http://www.diplomamillnews.blogspot.com/......

P.S.: Your M.A. or Ph.D. may be B.S.
Some Floridians with top jobs hold degrees from questionable academic institutions.

By RON MATUS, Times Staff Writer
Published December 6, 2007

LOL December 27, 2007 at 8:34 p.m.

Thanks for the funny conspiracy story.

Warren National / Kennedy Western still not worth the paper its printed on.

Dr. X December 31, 2007 at 8:05 p.m.

I have seen numerous people with "real" degrees talking about non-accredited institutions, and their reaction to them seems universally hostile. They all rave about how worthless those degrees are, that they're not worth the paper they're printed on, that anybody with any common sense would go to a "real" institution. One person actually sent an advertisement from a non-accredited institution to law enforcement authorities, although they did not explain exactly what they felt this institution could be charged with. Is it illegal to give people pieces of paper? The wrath expressed by these folks seems to stem from jealousy. They're just plain jealous that they had to spend years of time and thousands of dollars to get their paper education. I sympathize with people who've had to go through that ordeal, but to become hostile to someone else who's trying to find a better alternative is not fair. It's like the old-timers who get angry at kids because kids these days have computers, while in the old days they had to use chalk or something. Yes, it's a shame they had to do through that, but that's no reason to get angry at someone else who's evaded it. And for the record, I have yet to see anyone with a "real" degree give a valid reason for not going the unaccredited route. Most just say "it's not worth it" without saying why. The only semi-valid argument is that your employer may find out about it, but if you show them a piece of paper which looks real, and if you really go all-out and your institution has a number they can call to check, (or if you just supply them with a friend's phone number and have your friend pretend to be a university official who confirms your graduation), how would they know? As I said before, there are people who did not supply anything more than the *claim*, which was assumed to be true and was enough to get them a good job.

It speaks volumes that many people who hate "unaccrededit schools" hate them because they went to one themselves, not realizing that the institution was not accredited. They cite their "embarrassment" and "disgrace" because they were very proud of their achievements. I would advise these people to re-think their priorities. Going to university is not something to be proud of, because it is something you do for yourself, and things you do for you are not acts of pride; They are acts of necessity. If there is any justification in pride, it is for things you have done to make the world a better place for people other than yourself. However, pride is a worthless emotion in the first place, and it has no place in any human's psyche. If you are angry because your pride was wounded, I am sorry, but again, a degree is not gained for pride, but to improve your quality of life.
If they require you to have a degree, then you are not lying if you have a degree from a non-accredited institution and tell them you have a degree.

Dr. x January 1, 2008 at 10:17 p.m.

Since the Dept. of Ed. has no authority to recognize one accreditation agency over another, regional accreditation or otherwise has no real meaning at all.

my 2 cents January 1, 2008 at 11:32 p.m.

If you are going to follow Dr. X's advice and go the dishonesty route, Rochville or Belford or Almeda also offer unaccredited life experience degrees with cheaper rates and quicker studies that Kennedy-Western University.

Sound Advice January 2, 2008 at 3:56 a.m.

"Ask about the school's credentials and the degrees the instructors hold. Many unaccredited online schools will eagerly grant you a degree, however these degrees from unaccredited schools are worthless. A diploma mill or unaccredited school should be avoided", (Military.com, 2007).

http://education.military.com/finding-a-...

You are a full blown Liar January 2, 2008 at 2:53 p.m.

REF:"So even though Kennedy-Western has been booted from 3 states, cannot offer "degrees" in 4 states, and about a dozen other states have various restrictions / misdemeanors attached to their use, it's still technically legal in some spots."

Above is not true. Just because you write it does not make it true. Most states (>90%) have no restrictions on using the degree for private non governmental licensure. Even Wiki (very hard on WNU to the point of being very misleading)reveals this.

Do yourself a favor and call the ODAs of the co called states. By their own laws they have to honor WNU degrees and will give a written waiver if you ask. This is in large part due to WNUs applied status and their state licensure.
A dozen = 3 states? WTF

Pure Franstanchenzant! January 2, 2008 at 11:19 p.m.

Ref:Warren National students rolling the dice and enrolling after 1/1/2007 have a chance to receive an accredited degree at some point in the future, if Warren is successful.

Wrong again chump:
I will have a degree with WNU and not KWU on it and I enrolled 8/06. And per Dr Bear, I will be pulled in based on graduation date. Besides, no one ever asks (was it accredited when you enrolled?) Ref: DR Bear.

Go fish!

Also January 2, 2008 at 11:28 p.m.

Once accredited, and for minimal coursework and a fee, WNU will offer old days KWU students the opportunity to convert their degree to WNU.

Checkmate!

That is true January 3, 2008 at 3:03 a.m.

It is what the university is named when you graduate that you get the diploma for. No school has ever told us the year they became accredited (not that we ever asked)

What does this mean for me? January 3, 2008 at 2:23 p.m.

I previously wrote "Kennedy-Western University granted me more than half a DOCTORATE for continuing ed seminars and "life experience" in mid-2006, I have the "degree plan" to prove it."

Can I now just transfer that over to Warren National?

GWRD January 4, 2008 at 7:55 p.m.

"First, Why would it matter where its office is located?"

It's WHY they moved. California, Hawaii, Idaho, and Wyoming due to a rejection of their license renewal or to avoid being required to comply with quality standards.

"Second, Warren National and Kennedy-Western are the same thing so who cares what it was called before."

This is a big deal. KWU Senate Hearing showed they gave most of the degree for "life experience" with the rest being 1 open book exam per graduate course. No rigor whatsoever.

Warren National is going legit, but they are dragging forward all these free/easy credits/degrees from KWU. It really damages the credibility. If we make a clean cut from KWU, I think we would have smooth sailing.

"Finally, Warren National never claimed to be accredited."

Again, WNU gets tainted due to KWU. KWU did claim accreditation from one of those places.

I truly think that Warren National is going to turn out well, but grouping the Kennedy-Western people who did virtually nothing with current hard-working students is unfair.

Abolish ED January 6, 2008 at 6:31 p.m.

The federal government’s involvement in education represents everything that is wrong with so many of our government agencies: they are unconstitutional, wasteful, expensive, and out of touch. It is the duty of our congress to abolish not only the Department of Education, but the entire federal involvement in education. If Congress refuses to do its duty, the bureaucracy will continue to grow, and education will continue to decline. In 1979, Representative L.H. Fountain (D-NC) made an accurate prediction about the Department of Education which could be applied to the whole federal role in education. Fountain stated,

"I am opposed to this ill-advised and unnecessary legislation to establish a department which will grow and grow, cost the taxpayers of this nation unnecessary billions of dollars, and ultimately become an unmanageable monster bureaucracy."

ED non govt involvment scenario Reminds Me Of January 6, 2008 at 6:55 p.m.

When I was in Navy Boot Camp with an Admirals son in my company. The rest of us recruits were told "He would not get special treatment."

We watched as he did get special, albeit tacit treatment.

Urban dictionary seems more credible than Wiki. January 7, 2008 at 3:06 p.m.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.ph...

Accreditation Defined:

A total scam brought about by a good old boys club and federal government criminals to bilk dumb college brats out of their dads money, and thereby send them away with a so called education where they are more stupid when they leave than when they started.

To Jackie January 7, 2008 at 11:33 p.m.

Warren National, by the sound of your question is not for you.
Sounds like you want to "Play Ball". If you want to Play Ball, stay away from WNU.

Words like ACTS etc., indicate you are part of the establishment. You care more about "fitting in" than anything else.
WNU is for self made Mavericks like myself who have made a ton of money and now just want to learn things without sitting in front of Smelly Professors all day.
Do yourself a favor Jackie (If that is your real name)go the smelly professor route. It compliments your dress.

Cheers
Dr. JB

Hi Jackie; January 8, 2008 at 1:17 p.m.

What's your major? I'm sure we can point you to a school. If you read this entire blog, there isn't one shred of evidence from a 3rd party that shows that this school is worth the time (which is why so much time is spent ranting about issues unrelated to the poor quality), but tons of proof that it is a:

"Sophisticated diploma mill" - GAO report
"Fraudalent or substandard" - Texas State Law lists it
A good way to get publicly embarrased when a newspaper catches you with one of these.

Jackie January 8, 2008 at 9:26 p.m.

Wow! OK, I am looking for a BS in Healthcare Administration, then eventually a Masters. I have experience in the field and about 50 credits so far. Has to be online due to my work schedule.

If anyone can help out, would appreciate it! :-)

Another alumni featured on DIPLOMA MILL NEWS January 9, 2008 at 2:56 p.m.

http://diplomamillnews.blogspot.com/2008...

"Robert Blok received his master's of science in environmental engineering degree from Warren National University"

WNU Does not meet definition of diploma mill January 9, 2008 at 5:36 p.m.

Warren National University is licensed by the Wyoming Department of Education, under W.S. 21-2-401 through 21-2-407. This licensure allows the university to legally conduct business.

Abolish ED January 10, 2008 at 3:27 a.m.

According to Merriam Webster:

1st and dominant Definition of accreditation is:

-to give official authorization to or approval of-

Therefore the question, --What is state licensing if not accreditation?--

Zing! January 10, 2008 at 6:53 p.m.

The Truth 37 - Kennedy Western 0

Ron Paul January 11, 2008 at 3:39 p.m.

Ron got it right in the republican debate last night when he said we need to abolish the Department Of Ed. Good for him!

PT Barnum January 11, 2008 at 5:05 p.m.

"hiring people from ... online (and yes, unaccredited)universities in droves"

Can you verify that somehow? No, of course not, because it's not true. In my experience, a $6 background check will expose you as unqualified. Can you post some statistics on unaccredited placement?

"WNU gets bigger and better (with stronger finances"

LOL, true, it can only get better.

AFAIK, WNU is lining the pockets of 1 individual. I'm sure his finances are very strong, it's a great business model.

1. Pay the telemarketers for each mark they bring in.
2. Wave away half the degree for "life experience" to get them hooked.
3. Pay a test grader to score the 1 open book exam required for a course.
4. Pay a nominal amount to some professors with real degrees to appear in the marketing materials and maybe wave their hand over a paper now and then.

It has to be 90% profit, minimum.

Proud WNU Grad January 11, 2008 at 8:47 p.m.

"Many of the people I called were down on their luck. Many lacked a college education and held dead-end jobs. We used used negative-sell tactics to convince them that they did not have many options in life and the Kennedy-Western was their best chance to improve their lot."

Perhaps I am down on my luck.
I put a WNU BSME on my resume and headhunters are going whacko offering me 150k per year jobs with 100/day perdiem left and right.

At first I felt guilty and asked about WNU being non-accredited. Whithout exception they all say that as long as they are state licensed no one cares.

These headhunters have the jobs (they are not bidding on them).

A certain headhunter wants to hire me in Texas. I told him not to bother because my degree was illegal there.
He said he would tell the employer over the phone it was WNU and then leave it off the resume if it makes me feel better (so we left it off the resume). I figured, yea right, never happen and the next day Walla! Job offer (and WNU is off resume).

Theres somethin happenin here, what it is aint exactly clear, theres a man over there.........

??? January 12, 2008 at 7:53 a.m.

"I put a WNU BSME on my resume"

Warren National dropped all their hokey engineering programs in the latest name change / moving van expedition. WNU has never had a BSME program.

"Walla! Job offer"

That's hilarious. Must have been granted "life experience" for those basic language credits.

"Andree Swanson and Keren Meier-Emerich offered the following abstract for their presentation."

Rarer than big-foot! I missed it, but much has been written about the laughing-stock these people made of themselves.

Booger-Bloggers January 12, 2008 at 2:35 p.m.

Note that-All bloggers on this site (and I do mean all) that say negative things about WNU are not even students or ex-students of KW/WNU. This blog title is "Online degree reviews written by students".
Therefore it can be assumed that these booger-bloggers are mainly telemarketers from other diploma mills like Almeda, Excelsior and Thomas Edison trying to push their so called "Universities".

Yep January 12, 2008 at 5:22 p.m.

"But the BSME degree has WNU on it and not KW."

Lol, but you didn't get it there, in fact, it was never offered there. Just taking more liberties with the truth. Thank goodness for background checks.

"Almeda, Excelsior and Thomas Edison"

More confusion! Almeda is a diploma mill. Excelsior and Thomas Edison are regionally accredited.

Fact: KW"U" and WN"U" are still illegal to use in Oregon with out a lengthy disclaimer. In addition KWU / WNU cannot sell their diplomas in Oregon.

What? January 12, 2008 at 5:30 p.m.

Reference "More confusion! Almeda is a diploma mill. Excelsior and Thomas Edison are regionally accredited."

OK, so Excelsior and Thomas Edison are accredited diploma mills. Lots of them (including Almeda) are accredited.

Attestation January 12, 2008 at 9:26 p.m.

WNU degrees are internationally attestable. What is that?

James January 13, 2008 at 7:44 a.m.

"WNU degrees are internationally attestable. What is that?"

Not sure why they would be acceptable in a foreign country when they are not accepted in the States.

The only foreign articles I've seen on them is the Dirty Dozen Diploma Mills article.

KAKER-BEE January 13, 2008 at 4:05 p.m.

-----"Not sure why they would be acceptable in a foreign country when they are not accepted in the States."--------

Oh my! If they are not acceptable in the US, I need to tell my employer (Budweiser) to take back the 12K per year raise I just got for completing a degree there.

Thank You for informing me.

I will try to remember to do that on Monday.

? January 13, 2008 at 6:54 p.m.

The GAO found that 28 high-ranking officials at eight federal agencies hold diploma mill degrees and that a total of 463 students at three unaccredited schools work for the federal government. In addition, data from just two unaccredited schools—Kennedy-Western University and California Coast University—revealed nearly $170,000 in tuition payments from the federal government.

It clearly states KW as unaccredited and not a diploma mill.

http://www.senate.gov/~govt-aff/index.cf...

Ronald January 14, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.

The Federal government has no constitutional authority to be involved in school curricula or to control jobs in the market place. This is why we will abolish the Department of Education, end federal meddling in our schools, and promote family choice at all levels of learning.

Er... January 14, 2008 at 7:20 a.m.

"sophisticated diploma mill"

Where? January 15, 2008 at 4:39 p.m.

A Controlled-Find (word search) was conducted for the word "sophisticated" in the below URL/PDF Document. The word sophisticated is not there.

Please, I need the help to find it here also!

V/r

http://www.senate.gov/~govt-aff/index.cf...

So then..... January 16, 2008 at 6:28 p.m.

Does this terminology make Yale an Ultra-Super-Duper-Megga-Sophisticated-Diploma Mill?

LOGIC 101 January 17, 2008 at 2:15 p.m.

It is absurd to think that employment experience can be used to get credit towards a better education.

It is even more absurd to think that educational experience can be used to get credit towards better employment.

Both are happening. I suppose that is why educators are so upset.

Missing the point January 18, 2008 at 3:17 p.m.

It's not the lack of accreditation that makes most people regard KWU as a diploma mill. It's the documented lack of effort required to obtain a "degree", and the absence of any independent 3rd party oversight to dispel that viewpoint.

WNU = KWU January 19, 2008 at 8:23 p.m.

Sorry, no hatred, just facts.

SCAMMED January 20, 2008 at 7:30 p.m.

To Robert:

Very poor advice. Just because an unsophisticated company pays for it, that totally disregards the damage it will do to your career down the road when somebody with a clue is background checking you.

Trust me, I know.

In my experience, about 5-10% of companies don't know enough to screen out a KWU / WNU degree.

KWU will always be unacceptable. WNU application for accreditation does not mean automatic acceptance. They haven't done anything yet and have claimed accreditation efforts several times in the past.

Facts Suck January 21, 2008 at 6:06 p.m.

REF:((If a degreed person is over the age of 58, it is highly unlikely that the university they attended in 1966 was accredited since few (if any) universities were accredited back then.))

Wow! The average age of a CEO in the US is about 56 (*). Oh no! This would mean many of our CEOs have unaccredited degrees! God save us!

* Ref below.
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-10594805...

Why we need accreditation January 21, 2008 at 9:13 p.m.

1. Government school is the essential force for social cohesion. It cannot happen any other way. A bureaucratized public order is our best defense against chaos and anarchy.
2. The socialization of children in groups monitored by state agents is essential; without this, children cannot learn to get along with others in a pluralistic society.
3. Children from different backgrounds and from families with different beliefs must be mixed together. Robert Frost was wrong when he maintained "good fences make good neighbors."
4. The certifiable expertise of accredited educators is superior to that of lay people including parents. The protection of students from the uncertified is a compelling public concern.
5. Coercion in the name of liberty is a valid use of federal and state power. Compelling children to assemble in mandated groups for mandated intervals with mandated texts and overseers does not interfere with academic learning.
6. Students will inevitably grow apart from their morals and core beliefs as they grow older and this process must be supported and encouraged. The best way to do this is by diluting moral influence and discouraging the students attitudes that their own parents are sovereign in either mind or morality.
7. The world is full of crazy parents who will ruin their off-spring. An overriding concern of University is to protect students from bad parenting.
8. It is not appropriate for any family to unduly concern itself with it's own education, but it may expend unlimited money, resources, time and effort on behalf of the general education of everyone else(especially blacks and minorities).
9. The Federal and State government has the predominant responsibility for training, morals, and beliefs. Students schooled outside government scrutiny frequently become anti-social and poverty stricken murderers, psychopaths, rapists and perverts.

Chemist January 22, 2008 at 8:07 a.m.

>>>>>>>>If a degreed person is over the age of 58, it is highly unlikely that the university they attended in 1966 was accredited since few (if any) universities were accredited back then.<<<<<<<

Not so. I got my degree in 1967 and accreditation was in wide use back then and had been for some time.

Tammy.gov January 22, 2008 at 6:52 p.m.

"It was 1965 when the Higher Education Act. was signed into law. This was when the Federal Government (Sec. of Ed) began recognizing accreditation organizations. There was at least a few years lag time for the audits to take place for the recognition."

Not that it matters a whole lot because only a small number of colleges were participants (< 1%)in the 1952 GI bill selected schools. The federal government would only reimburse war vets for tuition if they attended certain colleges. I worked for the VA back then, and there were about 7 colleges (out of several hundred) on the list. Also, it was not called accreditation back then. It was called VA recognized institutions of higher learning for purposes of government funded tuition assistance. The commisioner of education (my boss) kept the handwritten list in his desk drawer.

W.O.W Player February 1, 2008 at 4:53 p.m.

Has anyone ever had their loan from Sallie Mae waved for attending WNU aka KWU since the school is (as some say)a "Diploma Mill"?

Just wondering :)

Help! February 4, 2008 at 1:01 p.m.

Do I take the McDonalds job (fries) or Taco Bell job (more hours) after I purchase a WNU degree?

They Stole my Money! February 8, 2008 at 1:26 p.m.

Please please please do not enroll at Warren National University. I had terrible experience right from day one from the enrollment until I started the first course. I gave benefit of doubt when I had sour experience with their student counselor.

I decided to withdraw in the first four weeks and sent a request to reimburse 50% of the fee I paid. They said they will send response in 2 weeks. I made several follow ups and now it is almost 5 months and there is no response. I don't know how to get my money back.

Their admin, faculty, supervisor are not professional. I am very disappointed with their response. The reason I wanted to withdraw was that they had their previous university KWU information on student’s portal. Most of the information they had on the students section were outdated and not relevant to the course I selected. It did not motivate me to continue further.

It is not a professional setting. We are burning our money. There are quite a few other universities out there with high quality student service and curriculum structure at less price compared to Warren. Please do good homework before you sign up. Don't repent after the fact like me - I lost $3000.

LOL February 10, 2008 at 1:20 a.m.

LOL, a nameless individual working for a nameless company, with an unprovable "success story" with his "life-experience" degree. Even if it was true, defrauding your employer can only last so long as Gene Morrison learned this week...

Court expert 'was bogus scientist who bought PhD on internet'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,...

LMAO February 13, 2008 at 5:36 p.m.

Yes, from the way you write I can see you learned nothing and I hardly believe you are making the loot you claim >.>

MSBE grad February 15, 2008 at 6:20 a.m.

Yes they are not accreted… so long as you and your employer are ok whit that then have at. Let it be known I took 2 years and had to write a 110 page paper to get my un-accreted slip of paper. Yes there were 2 classes that I did not need to read the book, I took the practice test got a 98% and said why bother. Some classes took me days some took me many months to get through. I say to you so what, at the time it was the only way I could get a degree (un-accreted) as I was traveling around the world for Motorola as a field service engineer making ½ of what the others made that I worked with. I took first 2 years at UOP university of Phoenix but because I could not always log on at least 5 days a week (to read and post email…. As if that means I was learning) I had to stop attending UOP. After a two year brake I found Kennedy-Western University. I have completed school and yes some places tell me that it is a diploma mill and will not take the degree and some don’t ask and some don’t care. I work now as a SR Mechanical Engineer (and I am a fine one at that) for a small Co. I work there because the last 5 degreed BSME (accredited ones) sucked and cost tons of money. It has been 2 years now and I just got my 2nd 14% pay correction, I say correction as I had to start at a lower amount because of my non-accredited degree. When I see a please that states you must have a BS or BA but preferred a MS or MA well its all just BS to me and I know it’s some HR flunky having a thought (ok reading someone else’s thoughts and saying it’s so. So if you need an accredited degree then go get one. If you need a piece of paper that makes people think you are good to go then buy one, but if you just need to know what to read and someone to test you and help you understand something then Give it a try, but know that there are people that will bash you for it. If that bashing by other for some perception they have over something that truly don’t know will bug you then move on, oh and don’t live in the south as people may think you are a red neck, don’t live in LA as people will think you are vain, don’t live in the Midwest as people may think you are plane, well you smart people get my point. I will say am I as smart as someone out of MIT… no I am not but I don’t tell people that I am. Oh and you can take MIT class over the web for free (I have completed 12 and did very well) but that will not help me when some HR person sees that I do not have an accreted degree now will it even thou I have taken more school and much harder classes (sorry HR people DefEQ is harder than businesses law ((I know as I took both)).

WNU is 100% Valid February 15, 2008 at 12:23 p.m.

In all 50 states, as no prosecutor has fined or punished anyone yet in the three or four so called "illegal states". They will however try to intimidate state employees into removing credentials.

Diploma Mill News Features another KWU "grad" February 15, 2008 at 3:53 p.m.

http://www.diplomamillnews.blogspot.com/...

Educator: Deborah Schadler.

School: Gwynedd-Mercy College in Lower Gwynedd Township, where she is facilitator of the school of education's new Autism Institute

AND February 15, 2008 at 9:04 p.m.

Diploma mill news is reputable?
Give me a break, My 8 year old could steal some Hyper Text Markup Language and start a bogus blog that looks better than that sham. WTF!

There is an old Navy Fighter Pilots saying February 15, 2008 at 9:30 p.m.

You know you are right on target when you are catching flack.

WNU is catching plenty flack.

If you are jealous of WNU students making more money than you, just say so. It is ok to be jealous. I got 3 degrees for the price of one. My resume looks better than yours and no one cares about accreditation in the private sector.
Go hump yourself!

Another old saying February 15, 2008 at 11:40 p.m.

Q: What do you a call a person with a KWU bachelors, master's and doctorate?

A: A high school graduate.

&%^$#@ February 16, 2008 at 1:38 p.m.

"No one cares about accedidation in the private sector"

Please tell me what company you are working for so I can sell their stock short...LOL

Robert February 21, 2008 at 2:15 a.m.

As an executive with over 100 employees working for me, i would never hire a KW/WNU grad.

I interviewed one once, and found him to be quite deceptive. Easy degrees draw people who are seeking the 'easy way out' which are just the people I don't want to hire.....

DQ February 23, 2008 at 8:26 p.m.

I am thinking about attending Virginia College Online does anyone know about this school. All of my research as been positive about the school. I want to get an associates degree in criminal justice and business administration and I cannot attend a on-site campus do to truck driving and being gone 3 weeks out of the month.

WNU Graduated Student February 25, 2008 at 2:37 a.m.

This is all quite interesting - My experience at WNU was rather good. I completed the Doctoral Program in Computer Science and many of the courses were instructed by faculty from Univ of Penn, Georgia Tech, FSU, etc. No, WNU does not hold your hand but if you're looking to expand your knowledge base and add a post-graduate degree, it's a good way to go. Like all things in life, you get out what you put in.

LOL - Piercetp February 27, 2008 at 4:28 a.m.

"Some chump named Piercetp3840 is trying to pump up this dump by writing multiple reviews...

Warren National Is Pretty Good
By: Piercetp3840 (Graduate) on February 15, 2008

Warren National is a the real deal
By: Piercetp3840 (Graduate) on August 17, 2007"

Is anyone really surprised that a KWU so-called "graduate" would do something misleading or unethical?

Potential Student March 17, 2008 at 12:50 a.m.

Does anyone know what accredidation they have applied for? Will they receive the accreditation by end of 2008?

Jack March 20, 2008 at 6:52 a.m.

Kennedy-Western was a wonderful experience. I met great people that lead to good opportunities down the road. The faculty at KWU were helpful and thoughtful about student needs. If you couldn't get something in on time they let you have until the very last second to turn it in. They treat you like adults, not babysitting kids. You get what you put into it. Don't expect to be babied at KWU. The renamed WNU is undergoing NCA accreditation and will soon put all the naysayers to rest. I got a good IS management job and have 28 people under me and just broke a six figure income. Life is good and it's all thanks to KWU! Thanks Warren National.. I could do without the name changes though!

Jack March 20, 2008 at 1:09 p.m.

@Elsewhere

They have applied for NCA RA accreditation... that is REAL accreditation from CHEA!

I have the MIS and it has given me a great job making a ton of money and responsibility over dozens. I am quite happy with the acceptance of KWU in my career.

Easy Degrees March 20, 2008 at 3:07 p.m.

KWU will never be legitimate and never received any type of accreditation. Their 60% "life experience" credit waives and 1 open book exam = 1 "course" techniques are well documented. They are all just time bombs waiting to be discovered.

There is some hope for WNU students who graduate in about 2011 or later. WNU claims to be making an attempt at accreditation and I hope they succeed. Until then look elsewhere, it's not necessary to take the risk when other schools can offer qualified programs right now.

victort March 20, 2008 at 10:18 p.m.

Actually, the number of cheating university students could be as high as 84%
http://www.millersville.edu/~jccomp/acad...

Jack March 21, 2008 at 6:03 a.m.

@Easy Degrees

Ashford is regionally accredited and they give 75 credit hours of Life Experience too. Looks like they will make accreditation after all. :)

victort March 21, 2008 at 1:30 p.m.

To: No, the Boston one
I did not place the Boston correction.

Hey dipstick, if it progressivly got worse from 1963 thru 1993 a simple extrapolation would demonstrate that today students at accredited universities cheat about 110% of the time!
There are more cheaters today than 15 years ago. More minorities, women, blacks and other "affirmative action" human debris are in the system now.

Anyone? March 22, 2008 at 1:36 p.m.

Please post a link to

A) The Boston Globe article
B) Any company that says "we'll glady accept unaccredited degrees for management positions"
C) Where Ashford University gives 75 free credits to all students without any verification, KWU-style.

Thanks

Jack March 23, 2008 at 4:57 p.m.

Someone in the Ashford thread pointed it out here.

http://www.ashford.edu/online/forms/PLAG...

Write a letter on corporate stationary and include some bogus workshop agenda that you never went to and you can get credit. At Ashford you can get 75 credit hours from PLA and transfer up to 99. This school is RA, WNU is soon to follow!

Famous "alumni" March 23, 2008 at 11:04 p.m.

Any company that says "we'll glady accept unaccredited degrees for management positions" - There are none, that is why nobody can post one and keeps their supposed employers hidden. It's a 30-second background check to see if someone has a legitimate college degree.

If you manage to sneak into a company, congrats, you may shortly make the newspaper, like all of these recent articles on Kennedy-Western University and their degree purchasers.

***"Federal Employees Have Obtained Degrees from Diploma Mills and Other Unaccredited Schools, Some at Government Expense."

***"Diploma Mills are Easily Created and Some Have Issued Bogus Degrees to Federal Employees at Government Expense."

***"Bogus Degrees and Unmet Expectations: Are Taxpayer Dollars Subsidizing Diploma Mills?"

***"It May Take Hours, But You Too Can Earn a University Degree"

***"When Elected Officials Aren't What They Seem
Texas officials and Pennsylvania cats tout misleading credentials"

***“Real officials, bogus degrees, Fake degrees a growing Texas problem”

***"A dirty dozen - 12 famous diploma mills."

***“Are Fraudulent Academic Degrees Making a Mark on Engineering?”

***“Fighting Fakery - Diploma mills continue to churn out new "graduates" every day. What should legitimate colleges do about them? Is government action called for?”

***“Two less doctors in the house - Hebert, Wilson back away from Ph.D.'s issued by 'diploma mills'”

***“CBS 42 Investigates: Professors' questionable credentials”

***"PS Your PhD may be BS"

Illegal in Oregon without this... March 23, 2008 at 11:52 p.m.

Make sure to have your "my degree is crap" disclaimer on your resume...

"In addition, an individual using an unaccredited degree, even if the employer allows use of such degrees, must disclose on resumes, letterheads, business cards, announcements and advertisements that "(Name of school) does not have accreditation recognized by the United States Department of Education and has not been approved by the Office of Degree Authorization." ORS 348.609(2)(a). The only exception is for schools approved by ODA. See ORS 348.609(d) and OAR 583-050-0014."

It is a Class B Misdemeanor under the Oregon Criminal Code to use a degree in violation of ORS 348.609.

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccred......

Thanks, they moved their diploma mill page March 24, 2008 at 12:29 p.m.

It's only a misdemeanor, but I am sure Kennedy-Western sends out frequent notifications regarding the restrictions and dangers of using these "degrees".

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccred...

How do you tell? March 24, 2008 at 8:27 p.m.

Unaccredited / Diploma Mill, what's the difference?

Rochville, Belford, Warren National are all unaccredited. Why not go the cheaper route with Rochville?

Rochville same as Warren March 25, 2008 at 3:15 a.m.

"Rochville University is a fully accredited University recognized by Board of Online Universities Accreditation (BOUA)"

http://www.rochvilleuniversity.org/

LOL, Warren National is not accredited, it has a state business license, similar to the ones issued to beauty shops and tattoo parlors. It has no academic meaning, but their telemarketers will make a big deal about it to the naive.

Scammed March 25, 2008 at 12:12 p.m.

I found out the hard way that KWU is total garbage when tried to upgrade one of my professional engineering certifications and was turned down

Anyone that attends this university is naive or dishonest.

I was naive, which are you?

Again March 26, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.

Show me a conviction for using an unaccredited degree. You can not! It has never happened and never will.

Go fish!

Jack March 26, 2008 at 12:48 a.m.

Wyoming recognizes WNU and her degrees meaning they accredit it.

accredit

• verb (accredited, accrediting) 1 (accredit to) attribute (something) to (someone). 2 give authorization to

Perhaps you should read a dictionary.

Jack March 26, 2008 at 2:28 a.m.

I said it was "licensed"... read the thread before you make inane comments.

Doesn't know Jack March 26, 2008 at 2:59 a.m.

"Jack March 25, 2008 at 12:59 a.m.

Warren is accredited by the Wyoming DOE. Diploma mills are not."

Scammed March 26, 2008 at 12:16 p.m.

Well Jack, you are right in their target demographic with your repeated insistence that Wyoming DOE = Accreditation. Put that right on your resumer.

Good luck trying to use it though.

Jack March 26, 2008 at 4:20 p.m.

I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. No degree is guaranteed to give someone their desired job. It all comes down to what you do with it that makes it valuable. Since I am a go getter mine has taken me to my goals and beyond. Those that didn't take the effort to gain experience first are the ones who are suffering. It is the same for grads from traditional schools as well.

curious March 27, 2008 at 3:41 a.m.

Question:

Why do individuals who never attended KWU/WNU bash the school so much?

If they never attended, and did not fall for the so-called "scam", and the actual degrees are in fact completely worthless, then what more is there to say really?

For those who did not attend a dubious school and did not graduate with an unaccredited degree, but rather attended a "normal school" with a legitimate qualification, then this should be none of their concern.

If all the negative remarks being said, been said about KWU/WNU were to hold merit, then I would imagine all those graduates of KW/WNU would be dismissed from their jobs for having a "Fake" degree, whenever applying for promotions or different positions within their organizations, or simply when they apply for jobs with different companies altogether. In theory, would they not all get turned down?

People who completed their KWU degrees and applied internally for a higher position, after the education verification and background checks, would get terminated for lying on the new resumes would they not?

I could understand an alumni getting concerned about all the talk, and getting afraid that maybe the "herd" is right, the university is just trying once "again" to dodge the accreditation issue by moving states, making an application to the Higher Learning Commision, in order to buy time, etc, etc.

Imagine the one who went on to a "real" MBA program after having completed their KWU degree, how must that person feel while wondering that the school might get wiped off the face of the map?

Do the posters on these types of blogs understand that some very prestigious MBA programs will accept applicants who have extensive experience, certifications, and skills, despite a lack of an undergraduate degree? That basically means, having a degree from unaccredited institution such as WNU will not necessarily keep an aspiring student out of a regionally accredited graduate program, or any world-renowned university‘s graduate degree program. (read on for specific examples)

Continued

Curious March 27, 2008 at 3:45 a.m.

Certain DETC accredited schools give up to 25% credit towards general education requirements for life experience credit and limits the percentage of credit that can be waived toward core courses. This is an accepted practice among accredited institutions.

The ACE recommends college credit for non-collegiate activities, and also reviews college programs for applicability of courses for transfer credits - for use by college admissions staff when evaluating transcripts from other schools. To my recollection, the ACE used to publish a kind of "resale value book" for college courses. Like a used car's book value.

As for having to take ONE, open-book final exam - almost all accredited distance/online education programs operate in this manner.

Has anyone, in all of their lives in learning, ever taken an open-book, grand-final exam? In say finance, or something advanced? "Open-book" will not always help you get the answers, at least not fast enough to complete an exam in the allotted time.

In addition, usually the questions require an understanding of the learning concept in the actual textbook to formulate a correct answer to a question in an open-book exam. That is why open-book exams exist in the first place. Do you recall that the hardest subjects you ever took in school; usually were open-book exams? If you do not recollect such instances, then perhaps you were never enrolled in advanced subjects.

Just because a formula is in the book, does not mean that the student will: a. know what the formula means, b. know how to apply it towards a required answer on an exam.

Ever hear of CLEP exams? College students study the CLEP books and take the CLEP exams to get waivers on college courses to speed up the graduation process, or to save money on tuition. All regionally accredited universities accept this form of course completion. Therefore attempting to point negativity on WNU for its course-completion via-grand-final-examination process deserves little merit, if any at all.

Curious March 27, 2008 at 3:50 a.m.

Continued:

Key points:

Negative views of WNU/KWU which I attempted to de-bunk:

1. Curriculum and degrees earned by examination are sub-standard*

*Rebuttal: We examined the idea that just about all degrees in regionally accredited colleges and universities are earned by examination. How else would a student pass a class?

2. Accepting credits for non-college coursework is unacceptable practice*

*Rebuttal: CLEP exams and ACE are used by ALL regionally accepted schools.

3. KWU/WNU degrees will not be accepted by any employer*

*Rebuttal: I personally worked for one of the worlds oldest and recently in the news as being one of the most prominent financial institutions, and they accepted this degree. I moved on to a competitor, and the new hiring company conducted an extensive background check - criminal records investigation, credential verification and degree verification, I had no issues.

4. Graduates of KWU/WNU will never be able to transfer credits to any regionally accredited university.

(Somewhat true, yet misleading) Since it is not uncommon for a graduates of KWU/WNU have associates degrees and extensive undergraduate credits from regionally accredited institutions, as well as a min. 5 years of professional experience in the field of the major, to have been ADMITTED into the KW/WNU program to begin with, one can imagine that not all regionally accredited graduate schools will not all frown on this. Plenty of schools will take students who are just shy of certain requirements, provided that there are certain stipulations which need to be addressed.

Jack March 27, 2008 at 4:19 a.m.

@congrats... you need a degree for just about everything these days.

@curious... I agree with you but learn some brevity man!

Curious March 27, 2008 at 5:49 a.m.

I appreciate your comments as well, as they are very well thought out.

I would like to elaborate on your points,

1. Curriculum and degrees earned by examination:

The University of London, the world's very first distance education provider, and a collective of some of the world's finest and highest ranked universities (LSE, Imperial College Tanaka school of business, etc) has an external programme, which tests students once per year: ONE written exam per course, for the ENITRE COURSE CONTENT.

This(University of London) is one of the highest recognized degrees Programs in the world, with alumni which includes numerous heads of state and Nobel prize winners. The 100 year old distance format consists of one extensive final exam for each course. (Not to imply that the heads of state and Nobel prize winners were students of the external program)

2. On showing proficiency, KWU administered the General Education Requirement Exam for Math and English, and are evident on student transcripts. That is a proficiency exam. As well as requiring an Information Literacy Capstone course which tests the student reading ability. Further, as part of a student's acceptance into KWU, one had to submit a PECA - Portfolio of Experiential Credit Assessment, and it had a certification page which required that students attest they had provided true evidence of prior credentials on the paperwork listing all coursework completed and transcripts if any were provided. However, as the U.S. Senate Hearing Testimony would indicate, the women who enrolled for the course din not feel that she was asked to provide evidence of her credentials, however by signing the PECA, she swore to KWU that she told them the truth about her academic credentials - in her own handwriting. AND SHE LIED! She already had a degree in the subject matter. She took two tests and felt that the class was too easy. 2nd year high school seniors report that it is easier the second time around, even if they had failed the first time. We had an instance of the person who did not fail the first time, she already had a degree and was "repeating" the same course at KWU. In her testimony, she effectively swore before the senate, that she in fact lied to KWU.

Curious March 27, 2008 at 6:27 a.m.

Also in regards to the government employee who testified that KWU did not require proof of credentials, we have to note that she was specifically recruited to find flaws with KWU. A person who signed an attestation to KWU, which specifically states that she would assume the responsibility of submitting all true attested copies of transcripts, and swore to have submitted a true resume/CV, and yet had clearly, and deliberately lied, should not be taken as 100% credible.

Former Student March 27, 2008 at 7:28 p.m.

1. Curriculum and degrees earned by examination:
“This(University of London) is one of the highest recognized degrees Programs in the world... The 100 year old distance format consists of one extensive final exam for each course.”

I’m a big fan of competency testing. Proving competency is a much better indicator of skill than keeping your butt in a seat. But, by all accounts, there is 100% admittance into KWU programs, and the exams can be passed by picking terms from the glossary, so there is no competency being proven, just tuition being collected. There is no standardization, rigor, oversight, or transparency. Contrast that with London U, the Bar Exam, CPA exam, CLEP exam, where it has a known content and rigor to it.

2. “She already had a degree in the subject matter”

On the diploma mill hearing witness. I believe she had a degree in Journalism, but some minor training in engineering and applied for an engineering master’s.

I agree that motivation has to be taken into account here. But, her testimony does corroborate the facts that KWU self-reported, that ALL candidates get at least 1/3 of their degrees waived for undocumented life experience, and most get more than ½.

3. Acceptance of degree – The majority of businesses I have dealt with define the word “degree” as one that is “properly accredited” or “regionally accredited”.

When I say unsophisticated, I am referring specifically to HR screening techniques. The company may have cured cancer, but their HR department just wants a copy of the transcript directly from the school, and then are shocked to learn the value of an Almeda degree. Wharton, Radio Shack, Notre Dame, Cessna, the US Govt all have egg on their face due to poor applicant screening.

tic tac March 28, 2008 at 3:43 a.m.

This school is a diploma mill according to the federal government. The site admin should take this school down and only post DOE accredited schools.

Jack March 28, 2008 at 2:17 p.m.

The DOE doesn't accredit schools you tard! One would think your big fancy smancy degree would teach you that!! The DOE lets the CHEA pass out accreditation to various agencies... DUH!

Dr. Franstaun March 28, 2008 at 6:17 p.m.

What is amazing to me is the movement in the christian community to avoid hiring people from accredited universities.
Having both of my degrees from accredited universities and being a christian in the south, I observe this firsthand and it scares me. The practice is readily employed out in the open in South and North Carolina. Georgia, Alabama, Tenn. and Miss. also.
I may do my next paper on this subject.

Prof A. March 28, 2008 at 7:36 p.m.

“The DOE doesn't accredit schools you tard! One would think your big fancy smancy degree would teach you that!! The DOE lets the CHEA pass out accreditation to various agencies... DUH!”

LOL and WOW! Here is the short version to help you understand how it works. The U.S. Department of Education (DOE) does not accredit institutions; rather, it determines which accrediting agencies receive recognition by the Department. CHEA is an entirely separate entity, whose accreditation is often redundant with a DOE-recognized accreditor. For simplicity, stick with the DOE list.

Furthermore, March 28, 2008 at 7:49 p.m.

It is E.D. not DOE. DOE is ....Energy.

The E.D., by the way, has at least as many foes as friends, so it's recognition hurts ones reputation as much as it helps. A wash for accreditation purposes.
Their recent attempts at strong-arm tactics is making them un-popular, Reference- "Every child takes it in the behind program" a total and absolute failure.

Half of the U.S. are republicans/conservatives who would like to abolish the E.D. in place.

It is an outdated institution that has run it's course.

Forp March 28, 2008 at 8:04 p.m.

"During the Kennedy-Western diploma mill hearings, the government did refer to KWU as a “sophisticated diploma mill”, but I think “unaccredited, state-licensed business” is more proper and less offensive description of KWU / WNU."

So then Yale is a super-cali-Megga-Uber-Sophisticated diploma mill?

Prof A. March 28, 2008 at 9:20 p.m.

Bottom Line:

For any major WNU offers, there is a better online program, with dedicated faculty, at the same price, without the KWU baggage and uncertainty of WNU's possible accreditation efforts.

Name a major that WNU offers and I'll be glad to direct you to a much better school.

Curious March 28, 2008 at 9:41 p.m.

I will state clearly, that it wasn't easy to get to the next level. The graduate school initially would not accept the KNU/WNU degree.

I had some explaining to do, before the admissions board of the school that I was applying to. It was not difficult, given my qualifications. The most compelling reasons (besides having a letter of recommendation from the supervisor, was the availability of verifiable and valid information on WNU/WNU.

I described the asynchronous curriculum delivery, education levels of the faculty professors, the application for candidacy towards accreditation, and by showing the proper licensing from the State of Wyoming - which required all degree granting institutions to become accredited, or be in the process of being accredited. So no, a school can no longer "operate out of a motel 6" in the state of Wyoming.

Wyoming has toughened up their private schools licensing, and by requiring all private schools in that state to gain accreditation or apply for accreditation, they have effectively "weeded" out schools that did not stand a chance at accreditation. Wyoming has seemingly exterminated their diploma mills. The list of schools operating out of Wyoming has since changed for the better. (Schools applied for accreditation to the HLC, DETC, etc, or failed to meet licensing requirements and ceased operations)

Funnily, I had also called up a local online/campus graduate school(regionally accredited by the Higher Learning Commission), and inquired about their admissions policy in regards to one having a bachelors degree from an institution that has applied for candidacy to the HLC.

The admissions counselor stated that he would ask the registrar and call me back. Two weeks passed by and I had not heard from anyone. I then applied online at their website. Soon afterwards, I received a letter from the school which granted me online access to enroll for courses. There was no mention of formal acceptance, and it also stated that I had to forward transcripts by the end of the first course.

I had applied to two graduate programs, and had been accepted to one, and received a vague form of access to another. 2 out of 2 “aint” bad.

How many "life experience" students can go on to an accredited MBA program? Prof A, please reexamine your own interpretation of "life-experience".

Prof A March 28, 2008 at 11:19 p.m.

"The most compelling reasons (besides having a letter of recommendation from the supervisor, was the availability of verifiable and valid information on WNU/WNU."

By verifiable and valid info, I assume you are talking about Acceptance rates, average GMAT/SAT scores of students, pass rates, % graduate, etc., all the common stuff available on all universities.

I'm glad they are moving towards transparency, I'd love to see it, please post a link.

moreover March 29, 2008 at 6:11 a.m.

Prof A.,

The original question was on you very own definition of "life experience".

Prof A March 29, 2008 at 6:42 p.m.

"The most compelling reasons (besides having a letter of recommendation from the supervisor, was the availability of verifiable and valid information on WNU/WNU."

I'm asking what "verifiable and valid information on WNU" is avalilable that was so compelling to a top tier grad program.

Yes, there is verifiable and valid information on other online and distance universities (student counts, demographics, acceptance rates, etc.). Here is a link, but the print version is handier.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...

Curious March 29, 2008 at 8:47 p.m.

"The topic of this board is to discuss certain universities, and their usefulness. Your advocating that a KWU degree will get you into a world famous graduate program. If that's true it should be public knowledge what their standards are and no reason to hide it, since they took the student knowingly. My employment is irrelevant to the utility of a KWU degree. Feel free to assume I am really a Walmart greeter, the question is still valid".

I would love to disclose to alumni, but here is why I do not want to: You, your questionable motives, and actions.

In my posting during the past week, I can given very detailed examples of how a student can further their education. I never stated anywhere that I was accepted to a top-tier MBA program. A top-tier MBA program would have to be at least in the top 50 in the world, and the institution would have to specifically be classified as a business school.

Prof A., is it really your intention to help the students discuss the usefulness of a degree, or is it just your purpose to discredit WNU/KWU?

You seem to tell prospective students that you will recommend a better program, and you spend most of your time making posts with “links” - the same old ones for years to discredit all previous graduates.

Is it out of your genuine concern, that students will be "duped" by WNU, and that their degrees would become worthless? If it is truly your concern for the benefit of the student, then someone as yourself should welcome an “anecdotal” story like mine. Since despite being "Duped" by KWU into completing a useless degree, one was able to advance.

Curious March 29, 2008 at 8:54 p.m.

To those graduates of KWU/WNU, who have found themselves unable to advance:

Please also note that the Bachelors degree was not the only component of my application being considered for admission. Professional examinations leading to professional qualification marks, certifications, letter of recommendation, and relevant professional experience were all considered.

That was the key clue from the past few days.

And as a back-up, just in case, one must provide the validity of the school license:

Warren National University receives its registration
through the Wyoming State Department of Education,
under W.S. 21-2-401 through 21-2-407. Such oversight
requires the University to meet the standards as
indicated within Article 4: Private School Licensing
http://www.k12.wy.us/F/psl/degree.html

Good day to all, and as a person said to me the other day:

"See you at the top of the world".

LoL. Prof A., please have fun with this one.

Take care everyone

Prof A March 30, 2008 at 4:10 a.m.

"I never stated anywhere that I was accepted to a top-tier MBA program."

You said "I was able to be admitted to a world famous school(accredited)for their MBA program."

"Since despite being "Duped" by KWU into completing a useless degree, one was able to advance"

And I was just asking for some evidence of that. I'd think that KWU would have had a press release on that, it would make a compelling case. My podunk college has them every time when an undergrad is accepted to an Ivy.

"is there any mention that the report includes distance/online schools, if any. In fact it makes no mention of them whatsoever."

Err, you have to type in the name of the school, University of Phoenix for example. It's just one of many published guides with detailed info on schools. For KWU, nobody even knew how many students they had.

"Prof A., is it really your intention to help the students discuss the usefulness of a degree, or is it just your purpose to discredit WNU/KWU?"

KWU has generated enought bad press itself, publicly and repeatedly, no need to pile on. All my questions revolve around claims about it's utility which are often said, never supported, and contradict published reports.

Again, draw the line between KWU and WNU.

Bottom line is that I hope WNU receives accreditation, I'll be the first to write a congrats. They seem to be heading in that direction, they dumped their hokey engineering degrees, I saw an ad for some academic admin positions, etc.

Until then, I don't see how anyone in good faith can recommend this school, given their propensity to hop states when faced with regulation, and the availability of dozens of accredited programs in the same major.

Closing remarks March 30, 2008 at 7:54 a.m.

The Department of Health, Education and Welfare,
Office of Education, Bureau of Higher and Continuing
Education, Division of Eligibility and Agency Evaluation
state:

“The United States has no Federal ministry of education
or other centralized authority exercising single national
control over educational institutions in this country. The
States assume varying degrees of control over
education, but, in general, institutions of post secondary
education are permitted to operate with considerable
independence and autonomy. As a consequence,
American educational institutions can vary widely in the
character and quality of their programs.

“Degrees granted or issued in conformance with cited
statutes…are all equally legal under the law.
Judgements of value and applicability of a certain
degree are not made by the law or by the State. The
appropriateness of a degree or the applicability of a
degree to a job or the transfer of education credit is
decided by those who must render such evaluations for
those specific purposes.” (United States Department of
Education)

Also Robbed by WNU April 4, 2008 at 3:42 a.m.

WNU is a little more than a money-making cash cow for a few clever people - it's a ".com" not a ".edu" for good reason. Also, this "curious" fellow (see his prolific comments from March 27-30) is obviously not objective about WNU. I strongly suspect that he's not just a "student" but someone who has lots to gain from attempting to offer believable rebuttals to the many legitimate criticisms of this outfit.

Adjunct Prof April 4, 2008 at 8:03 p.m.

It is not true that a Ph.D. from WNU will prevent you from teaching at accredited schools. I was accepted as an anjunct professor at an accredited school.

Tom April 6, 2008 at 7:01 p.m.

You teach at an accredited school with an unaccredited degree. Sounds like Walden's faculty...

Prof A April 6, 2008 at 10:09 p.m.

"I also hope that WNU receives accreditation, and I will be the first to come forward with where I went on for the MBA.

Not only did they drop the engineering degrees, all the Ph.D programs were discontinued as well. I think these were all steps towards right path."

Agreed. These were the 2 areas they were most out of line with and would never have passed the slighest outside scrutiny during accreditation. Engineering "degrees" that did not allow you to become a Professional Engineer (some states allow you to gain the PE with a high school diploma) and PhD's that do not qualify you to teach for any accredited university due to their accreditation requirements.

The other point of contention with KWU "PhD's" is that the "dissertations" were never cataloged or published. Basically a minor term paper that didn't add to the body of knowledge and wouldn't hold up to any external review either.

Rochville Grad April 7, 2008 at 1:48 a.m.

"Now corporations and working people have figured out how to trade work experience for education credits. If education equals jobs, then surely jobs equal education. No?"

I had great life experience and got my experience validated with a degree from Rochville University, and got a 19% raise right off the bat. Don't be hatin'

Prof A April 8, 2008 at 12:10 a.m.

"Tell me the difference between some other Online Universities? Ie: Phoenix for example... Is a Phoenix online education acceptable to you? I would like the know the real difference between Phoenix and WNU."

Excellent question, I am a big supporter of online education and glad to help out. UOP is a regionally accredited institution. Their curriculum is known and they don't routinely waive the majority of degrees for "life experience" Their dissertations are cataloged and published. So is it real and recognized and valid for employment and licensing? Absolutely.

The other factor is perceived quality of the programs and it's graduates. Unfortunately they are a 100% acceptance school and routinely take a beating for their cost, faculty, and recruiting practices.

So they are a real, regionally accredited school, but definitely lower tier.

SK April 8, 2008 at 12:53 a.m.

since I had taken a significant amount of my education in an accredited setting, I guess I picked the wrong online option... maybe I should have went to Phoenix?

Frankly it doesn't matter... some employers look at it, some don't. I know what I am capable of and am comfortable in my own skin. If I could do it all over again, I would have gone to a State or Private University through graduation. Instead, I spent time in the military (which in my domain is what recruiters are looking for).
And to think the Military schools wouldn't get me anywhere...

Honestly, I didn't have problems getting into State Universities or Private Universities, don't know how successful I would have been trying Stanford.

How do you figure Bush got into Yale? I wonder if he had to take advantage of the financial aid package? Good thing he was exceptionally smart!

You know where I see the trend going is that some employers are doing the "try before they buy" (Contract to hire)route where they weed out the non performers before the get on the payroll... accredited or non accredited. So at the end of the day, it depends on what you deliver, not how good you interview or where you went to school.

SK April 8, 2008 at 2:04 a.m.

I understand what you are saying... I understand that some Universities are held in higher regard than others. (Stanford being one of them), Ivy leaguers, Notre Dame to name a few. It seems to be relative. Those that went to Ivy league schools for example probably feel their education is several notches above those that went to State Universities, and so on. I try not to get too caught up in all of this. When my life slows down I may someday go back and get "accredited" so to speak but right now it doesn't fit into my life plans.

My mom is 58 years old and is graduating with her MBA in business next month... oh did I mention from an accredited university? It's never too late

Prof A April 9, 2008 at 2:31 a.m.

"From HR Perspective, do corporate employers have the issue with WNU degree?"

The last company I worked with had the following policy. They were very supportive of online programs and degrees, since they had a very tenured workforce and were not located near a major university. 9,000+ employees.

Bachelor's and Above required regional accreditation, regardless of delivery method.

Associates and below (1 year certificates), national accreditation (such as DETC) would be considered.

Unaccredited WNU - still two camps last time I talked to them. Camp 1 said just ignore the degree and look at what's left. This was difficult, because the academic screen came after the manager interviewed them. Camp 2 said disregard the candidate altogether.

Scammed April 9, 2008 at 12:19 p.m.

I learned the hard way. In my experience, about 5-10% of companies don't know enough to screen out a KWU / WNU degree.

I didn't find out until I tried to upgrade one of my professional engineering certifications and was turned down, that I myself had been scammed. When I enrolled at Kennedy Western University they had a statement on their web site claiming accreditation for their state license. They even had a picture of it. It was MY FAULT for not properly investigating the project that I put MY money into.

I am currently enrolled in a REAL brick and mortar university

sk April 10, 2008 at 1:59 a.m.

"Also, Texas is only 1 of 12-13 states that restrict the use of unaccredited degrees"

yep, you're right! Maine is too, and lets not forget North Dakota:)

12-13 states out of 50.

how can you say all of these successful companies dropped the ball? How do you know they didn't KNOW what they were investing in? I would agree that in some cases, yes maybe someone slipped through the cracks. I can tell you there are some that are fully aware of what they are getting.

Embarassed how? By having someone on their payroll with an unaccredited degree or by someone with an unaccredited degree embarassing them publically by incompetence? Show me one example of a person with an unaccredited degree making a mistake that big and I'll show you 20 examples where people with accredited degrees make the same mistakes or worse.

sk April 10, 2008 at 12:47 p.m.

don't forget to mention those within FEMA that had accredited degrees... and don't say there were none.

PT Barnum April 12, 2008 at 12:43 p.m.

"how can you say all of these successful companies dropped the ball? How do you know they didn't KNOW what they were investing in?"

Very simple, because within days of being exposed to the press, the people involved were either investigated, terminated, or resigned based soley on their academic claims (not performed related).

So for them to know what they were investing in, what you are saying is:

*They gladly accepted unaccredited degrees.
*Did a thorough background check
*Released national press releases (Notre Dames was classic)
*Then terminated the person within a week.

Sounds like good business all around.

Joe April 12, 2008 at 10:17 p.m.

I know Phoenix is accredited which is why Mary Peters still has a job. Some years ago nearly 500 people in upper government positions were fired for putting unaccredited degrees on their resumes and many came from FEMA. That was all I was refering so don't waste your time barking up the wrong tree.

P.S. Most of the doctors who are being sued for malpractice hold degrees from Latin American countries.

sk April 14, 2008 at 5:56 p.m.

"walmart greeter" funny...

My employer knew exactly what they were getting in me, they know where my degree is from and my military experience. I am a mid level Engineer for a major medical device manufacturer... (giggling as I type)

want to know what I make? probably not.

do you want fries with that?

I would love to see the statistics on the doctors from Latin America vs US educated doctors that are/have been sued.

I would bet that it is 70% or better that are educated in the US...

PT Barnum April 15, 2008 at 5:41 a.m.

"I am a mid level Engineer for a major medical device manufacturer"

Risk managers at major medical device manufacturers are much smarter than that. Can you imagine if a device went bad and it had been worked on by someone with an "engineering" "degree" for 50% "life experience" and a couple hours of open book exams?

OUCH!

"want to know what I make?" I'll have to look up the average wage of high-school graduates and get back to you.

sk April 15, 2008 at 4:28 p.m.

let em hate...

their opinions mean nothing :( who cares what they publish on some board burried somewhere on the internet?

PT..

I was not taken on for 50% life experience, I finished with WNU with a significant amount of "accredited" coursework.

do you know of any recent high school grads that make $85K?

want fries with that?

Joe...

Soooo what you are saying with your statement is that anyone with an unaccredited degree is a "liar"??? I didn't lie... Again, like I have mentioned a couple of different times, my employer knew where my degree is from, I even told them it was unaccredited in the phone interview.

The Laws April 19, 2008 at 4:11 p.m.

Laws restricting the use of E.D sanctioned unaccredited university degrees are illegal and not enforcable and also untested.
Name me one person in any state in the US in the private sector convicted of using an unaccredited degree. Even the govt can not and will not prosecute for this. Worst case is getting laid off and there are thousands of unemployed Yale graduates out there right now.

Hey, numnuts, all universities start out as unaccredited.

Another unaccredited expose April 22, 2008 at 2:39 a.m.

Let's ignore the 463 government employees who were terminated or disciplined with unaccredited degrees, but here is a recent case of a city manager with an unaccredited master's and Ph'D, going to trial

"Tramel was serving as the Sneads city manager when he was terminated from that position on the last day of February 2007 amid questions concerning the academic credentials he had claimed on his job application. "

According to Sneads attorney Guy Green at the time the resulting information was presented to the town council, it appears that the degrees listed on his job application allegedly came from a “diploma mill” rather than a legitimate school of higher learning. Tramel said Tuesday he could not comment on anything related to his education, citing the advice of counsel."

http://www.jcfloridan.com/jcf/news/local...

Joe April 23, 2008 at 10:39 p.m.

Kennedy Western/Warren is on the Texas Diploma Mill list.

http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/AAR/Private...

7 Sorry April 26, 2008 at 4:14 a.m.

Wyoming was one of the "Seven Sorry Sisters" with virtually no oversight of colleges, which caused unaccredited universities (like Hamilton University of Laura Callahan fame) to flock into Wyoming.

Wyoming finally tightened up their laws, so it remains to be seen if KWU / WNU will simply move again to another state to avoid meaningful regulation.

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/...

Joe April 28, 2008 at 9:13 a.m.

If Texas is so dumb and stupid and they think WNU is substandard... then you know it REALLY sucks.

Joe April 28, 2008 at 11:36 p.m.

Looks like Texas called that spade a spade. Trinity is clearly on their diploma mill list... just like Warren National.

To Chuck May 2, 2008 at 7:17 p.m.

There are thousands of people in Texas using their un-accredited degree in the private sector and no prosecutions to date.
Texas government can not legally intervene in free enterprise.
They can not enforce this illegal law.
Take a law class and see that unchallenged laws are not laws at all.
Worst case (if you become the first person in US history to be prosecuted for a KW/WNU degree, it is only a three hundred dollar fine).
Texas will loose though. Just like Oregon did. Use it there. I do. :)

Still Illegal in Oregon May 3, 2008 at 4:43 a.m.

In addition, an individual using an unaccredited degree, even if the employer allows use of such degrees, must disclose on resumes, letterheads, business cards, announcements and advertisements that "(Name of school) does not have accreditation recognized by the United States Department of Education and has not been approved by the Office of Degree Authorization." ORS 348.609(2)(a). The only exception is for schools approved by ODA. See ORS 348.609(d) and OAR 583-050-0014.

It is a Class B Misdemeanor under the Oregon Criminal Code to use a degree in violation of ORS 348.609.

LOL, good luck getting a job (other than McDonalds) with that albatross...

MEOW! May 3, 2008 at 7:21 p.m.

Hi I'm a cat named Colby Nolan, I have an unaccredited MBA and nobody ever fined me!!

MEOW! - Cat with MBA May 6, 2008 at 12:24 p.m.

Meow, first of all, most people are going to get caught during the hiring process, so most are not going to be employed in the first place.

Second, the ones that are discovered internally will be handled quietly.

If somehow they make it past that point and their so-called "degree" is made public, they have the chance to throw their KWU "degree" in the dumpster and disavow it, like the people in these articles. (These are all KW"U" degree holders that threw away degrees, including "doctorates" when asked about them.)

"When Elected Officials Aren't What They Seem: Texas officials and Pennsylvania cats tout misleading credentials"

“Real officials, bogus degrees, Fake degrees a growing Texas problem”

“Two less doctors in the house - Hebert, Wilson back away from Ph.D.'s issued by 'diploma mills'”

“CBS 42 Investigates: Professors' questionable credentials”

So the easiest way to avoid the fine is to throw it in the dumpster, which means the number of prosecutions is going to be low, but here is one just for fun.

http://www.jcfloridan.com/jcf/news/local...

Meow

Cat with an Unaccredited MBA May 11, 2008 at 4:51 a.m.

Meow, I just searched and found no KWU so-called "Phd's" working anywhere in higher ed except for the ones exposed in this article:

“CBS 42 Investigates: Professors' questionable credentials” and of course those PhD's are no longer listed in their bio's, lol.

Also, KWU / WNU expressly prohibit their own PHD "graduates" from working at KWU / WNU, Meow.

New Jersey May 11, 2008 at 1:35 p.m.

Only the company that hires you can press charges or fire you and then only if they can prove you knew the law there.
The law is untested everywhere in the US and there are hoards of federal constitutional lawyers and judges waiting to "take to task" the first state that attempts enforcement (remember Oregon?).
The states know this law is unenforcable, but they pass these bogus slogans with the hopes that the sheople will obey.

Prof A May 11, 2008 at 3:49 p.m.

"I was pleased to find faculty members at many fully accredited schools with Kennedy-Western University (now WNU) degrees"

A very misleading and untrue statement. It is a fact that to teach at a regionally accredited university, you need a Masters degree from a regionally accredited u, usually with 18 graduate credits in the subject matter. If you did in fact spot a KWU "PhD" on a university website, they are teaching based on their accredited Master's degree, and the KWU "PhD" is an oversight that hasn't been noticed yet.

Recently there was a Baylor prof with a KWU "PhD", which was exposed in a news story, all reference to that "degree" was immediately removed, but the person has a recognized masters.

One instance doesn't = universal acceptance or any acceptance at all, especially in higher ed.

Prof A May 11, 2008 at 8:52 p.m.

"I started making a list of KWU graduates teaching at accredited schools (with URLs, names, degrees, schools"

Great, post them and prove your point that counters the overwhelming evidence that says otherwise. I've only been able to Google 3 in the last 15 minutes, and 2 of them were quickly renounced, such as the Baylor one. The other one has a real MBA.

If they do exist, then they must be as widely accepted as you claim.

No to Prof A May 12, 2008 at 4:14 p.m.

You find them. It isn't hard. I won't help you hound honest teachers. You seem the type who would contact their employers and cause trouble.

Use Common Sense May 13, 2008 at 4:33 p.m.

Prof A, it is not a bogus claim. Just try a little harder and you will get the same results I have.

For discussion purposes:
item 2. I think it is wonderful that KWU doesn't allow its graduates to teach there. KWU tries to find the best in their field to teach their courses - that means hiring professors with experience and established reputations in their fields (not newly minted graduates).
Don't you find it odd that so many established professors at accredited universities are willing to teach at WNU?

Prof A May 13, 2008 at 5:58 p.m.

Can you at least point to a single university employment page that accepts unaccredited degree profs? None exist, but no names needed that way.

Prof A. May 16, 2008 at 3:48 p.m.

So if we ignore common sense, the accrediting guidelines for faculty, every universities employment requirements, the state laws where it is regulated, WNU’s own disdain for it’s “grads” then wade through numerous pages of exposes and Senate diploma mill hearings, we’ll eventually find a few KWU “PhD’s” who are able to teach because of their accredited Master’s degree? Wow, that is a ringing endorsement.

I think everyone does agree with you that their names and employers should be kept hidden, along with any Rochville, Belford, St. Regis PhD’s.

For your next round of “I found it on the Internet, so it must be legit”, try searching for “Flat Earth Society”. I had no idea!

Cat with an Unaccredited MBA May 20, 2008 at 4:39 a.m.

MEOW! Yeah! unless you or your cat graduated from this unaccredited place, keep your facts to yourself, MEOW!

Colby Nolan, M.B.A., Trinity Southern University

"Cat gets MBA"
www.nbc10.com/money/3975070/detail.html

LOL May 28, 2008 at 4:45 a.m.

"The Moon May 24, 2008 at 6:50 p.m.

Not one Engineer that did the calculations and engineered the equipment that put a man on the moon graduated from an accredited university. Not one."

What a stupid idiot. It's like saying Orville and Wilbur Wright didn't have a pilot's license. During the moon launch, there weren't a bunch of hokey pseudo-colleges out there and accreditation wasn't need to separate the real colleges from the sellers of useless diplomas.

The people that put the men on the moon were brilliant grads from great colleges like Yale and Harvard, and obviously not Kennedy Western / Warren National of Hawaii / Utah / California / Woming / Idaho / Whatever state they are moving to next.

Cat with an Unaccredited MBA May 29, 2008 at 2:58 a.m.

Meow! My Alma Mater of Trinity Southern University offered a Master of Science in Applied Science and Technology (MSAST) as well as a Doctorate of Philosophy in Mathematics. All this talk about the space program makes me wish I had gotten those degrees instead of my unaccredited MBA. I'm sure my life experience degree would have qualified me for a job at NASA Meow!

LAWMAKER June 1, 2008 at 5:30 p.m.

Laypersons and professional alike have been brainwashed to think that to have a legitimate college or university degree, it must be accredited. The average person and most professionals have no idea what accreditation is, they believe or have been told through out the years, that accreditation equals a legitimate degree. This is not true! In fact it takes four years for a college to become accredited, making it technically impossible to disallow unaccredited schools. With this mindset, no new college or university could ever open. Another falsehood is where people believe a degree must be recognized by the US Department of Education. The US Department of Education does not, and has never had a responsibility to recognize college or university degrees. There are Regional, National and Professional accrediting agencies, which are non-governmental, non-profit, peer review, third party organizations that the US Department of Education recognizes for the purpose of federal tuition loans. This has nothing to do with making the college or university legitimate.
Here is one that falsehood that is actually funny, that a degree earned outside of the United States are not as good, or not as legitimate as a regionally, national or professional “accredited” US degree. Not true! Most foreign countries require that all colleges and universities be licensed, registered and/or accredited by the Ministry of Education (a government agency), which in most cases, is much more stringent that our non-governmental accrediting process. Foreign university administrators laugh at our regional accreditation process.
Many colleges and universities throughout the US receive state license or authority to grant degrees. Some are schools are exempt from licensing based on offering only religious degrees. Others decide that the regional, national or professional accreditation (peer review from a non-governmental, non-profit, peer review agency) is not needed. Each state has their own requirements for degree granting institutes.
Educational evaluation firms or agencies are private companies. The opinion that they provide in a written report is just that, an opinion. These firms or agencies are not the US Department of Education and are not a governmental agency. You could send your degree to three or four of these agencies and get two to three different opinion reports. There is also an educational evaluation membership organization that several of these private companies join to (pay membership dues). They attempt to give the impression that only their members are qualified to conduct educational evaluations.

PT Barnum June 1, 2008 at 8:38 p.m.

Rationalize all you want about this hokey pseudo-"college", but the fact remains:

"From US Gov

Frequently Asked Questions about diploma mills, fraudulent degrees, and accreditation. Among other things:

Accreditation is “voluntary,” so doesn't that mean it is optional and not necessary?

Accreditation is voluntary in that the process of accreditation requires the full cooperation with and complete participation in the process of accreditation by the college or university seeking accreditation. At the heart of the accreditation process is a self-study prepared by the college or university demonstrating its commitment to the standards of accreditation.

Since accreditation is the PRIMARY means of determining the legitimacy and quality of colleges and universities in the United States, to describe the process as "voluntary" is not to describe it as "optional" or "unnecessary."

Joe June 2, 2008 at 12:57 a.m.

Government sanctioned accreditation doesn't really mean a whole lot of beans these days. You have to look at the bigger picture... professional accreditations, US News rankings, Peterson's guide to enrollments, faculty credentials etc.

@cat June 2, 2008 at 5:36 a.m.

The cat routine is getting old bro.

PT Barnum June 2, 2008 at 4:27 p.m.

Joe June 2, 2008 at 12:57 a.m.
"You have to look at the bigger picture... professional accreditations, US News rankings, Peterson's guide to enrollments, faculty credentials etc."

True.

Professional accreditations - KWU / WNU have none, and "degrees" won't qualify you for any professional exams. They can't even stay in the Better Business Bureau. (Sidenote: You can become a professional engineer with a high school diploma.)

US News - LOL, won't even list them.

Petersons guide - Not familiar with this one, but I assume they are unlisted.

Faculty credentials - They are using faculty now? At the Senate diploma mill hearing, KWU self-reported that they had 1 faculty member. None listed on WNU site now, but their employment page specifically states that they won't accept KWU / WNU graduates.

Armored Saint June 3, 2008 at 4:27 p.m.

To Harry,

Wow. Is this public news? Is this posted anywhere? Thanks.

@Dr. Elrond June 3, 2008 at 10:20 p.m.

www.google.com

I don't seem to have any problem posting URLs.

Joe June 4, 2008 at 6:59 a.m.

For those not technical enough to post links...

www.ncahlc.org/index.php?option=com_cont...

candidacy = Preaccreditation status, which does not carry membership in the Commission.

Dan June 4, 2008 at 1:20 p.m.

Thank you for the link! I filled the form out and expressed my opinion.
That is that WNU was tougher than Navy Nuclear Power School and they deserve accreditation.

Harry June 4, 2008 at 4:42 p.m.

To Armored Saint:

The WNU October review announcement by the HLC has already been discussed since my post, but I will supply a little more detail on accessing it.

Go to the Higher Learning Commission home page. On the left side you will see a menu. Click on Affilited Institutions, and then click on Upcoming Visits; the list is alphabetical.

Another Award June 4, 2008 at 8:04 p.m.

Hey Numnuts-

My point being that the other four universities on the list are fully CHEA accredited!!
WNU ranked superior to 3 of the other four accredited universities.
One of the four WNU beat out is Western Governors University. The most accredited university in the world is Western Governors(accredited by all CHEA/ED recognized agencies).

More proof accreditation is not worth a damn.

Checkmate

tic tac June 4, 2008 at 8:51 p.m.

Thanks for the link Joe... I filled it out telling how much damage it would to do the HCL much less poor unsuspecting victims.

Dr. Elrond June 4, 2008 at 10:08 p.m.

How can you clowns argue about how bad WNU is, based on how bad you think KWU was? How many of you attended WNU? Do you even know someone who attended and graduated from WNU?
I haven't commented to the Higher Learning Commission regarding WNU, because I graduated from KWU. I have no experience with the staff or faculty of WNU. DO YOU?

Cat with an Unaccredited MBA June 5, 2008 at 1:30 a.m.

Oh, and Meow.

Mistake June 5, 2008 at 12:16 p.m.

I think it is a mistake for WNU to seek accreditation. From what I've read they seem to have a very profitable business serving down on their luck people who are unable to get into an accredited school.

No Action Required June 5, 2008 at 3:29 p.m.

What does Texas do when WNU gets accreditation?

Since Texas has taken no prosecutorial action on this issue with WNU being "outlawed" and unaccredited then it would make sense that Texas has no action to take when WNU does get accredited.

Wulf the Dog June 5, 2008 at 4:25 p.m.

As Slim Pickens would say: Only two things ...."

Joe June 5, 2008 at 8:41 p.m.

I haven't seen anyone posting bogus websites. GAO report is bogus? Major news outlets are bogus?

PT Barnum June 5, 2008 at 9:17 p.m.

Bad analogy, because for it to be true, there would have to be some evidence that KWU is any different than CatU, Rochville, or any of its' unaccredited brethren.

Also, what sourced reports do you consider bogus? Newspapers, Senators, State law?

Ex-WNU Student June 6, 2008 at 1:57 a.m.

I learned a few months ago that the degree that I was seeking from Warren National University (WNU) located in Cheyenne, Wyoming is not valid in Texas and if I try to use it in Texas it is against the law to use and I could be fined or jailed if I try to use it. No one at this university ever told me that I could not use their degree in Texas. When I went to the State of Texas website and found that WNU was on the list I sent this information to the WNU and asked for a full refund. I have sent several emails and called several times (all calls go to voice mail) but they have not responded to either. I paid over $6,000.00 dollars to this university that I thought would receive a degree from them, but it looks like now that I was deceived by them. They knew from the start that I lived in Texas.

When I never received any replies from WNU I filed a complaint with the Wyoming Better Business Bureau. WNU never replied to the complaint and because of this they lost their accreditation with the BBB. I also filed a complaint with the Wyoming Department of Education, but WNU never replied to them either.

This "university" only cares about cheating people out of their money and should be closed down and prosecuted for their illegal business practices.

Tommy Boy June 6, 2008 at 3:03 p.m.

My partner learned a few years ago that the degree that he was seeking from Warren National University (WNU) located in Cheyenne, Wyoming is not valid in Texas and if he tries to use it in Texas since it is against the law to use and he could be fined or jailed (that might be fun for him though:)) if he tries to use it. No one at this university ever told him that he could not use their degree in Texas. When I went to the State of Texas website and found that WNU was on the list I sent this information to the WNU and asked for a full refund for Bruce. I have sent several emails and called several times (all calls go to voice mail) but they have not responded to either. We paid over $6,000.00 dollars to this university that I thought he would receive a degree from them, but it looks like now that Bruce was deceived by them. They knew from the start that I lived in Texas (Steers and ...???).

When he never received any replies from WNU I filed a complaint with the Wyoming Better Business Bureau. WNU never replied to the complaint and because of this they lost their accreditation with the BBB. We also filed a complaint with the Wyoming Department of Education, but WNU never replied to them either.

This "university" only cares about cheating people out of their money and should be closed down and prosecuted for their business practices.

PT Barnum June 6, 2008 at 6:41 p.m.

"Ex-WNU Student June 6, 2008 at 1:57 a.m."

I think your experience is pretty common, looking at the number of complaints that KWU wasn't able to settle internally before being booted by the BBB.

Having state by state diploma mill laws is messy. Use of a KWU/WNU degree is illegal or restricted in 10 states, but there are only 3 states where KWU/WNU can't OFFER to sell a degree.

What did their enrollment department say when you initially enrolled? Anything?

Ex-WNU Student June 6, 2008 at 8:47 p.m.

"What did their enrollment department say when you initially enrolled?"

Their enrollment department NEVER mentioned that their degrees were against the law to use in Texas. The main thing that they were worried about was how I wanted to pay for the courses...

EX-WNU Student June 7, 2008 at 5:25 a.m.

Folks neeed to remember and accept Change!!!!!!! Remember, Organizations, Individuals, Corporations makes mistakes, but essentially trying to better one's self is what makes them more succesffully.

Presently, WNU does not have the same concepts as previously and dramtically improved their operations, learning experience and Format.

With that, they have fair chance of getting what they want in this process, which is to be Accredited.

Rest of Critics, can keep their mouth shut and be Happy!!!! Don't be jealous of Online Education at Low Prices with High Quality Education.

RU Nutz June 7, 2008 at 4:27 p.m.

$6000 is peanuts. It costs that much for one semester at some cheap public universities. WNU is a bargain compared to the University of Phoenix.
You blew it bozo. Once WNU is accredited expect them to charge market rates. You could have been a WNU graduate. Then when they become accredited and removed from the Texas list (which is not based on quality of the school, but solely on whether or not it is accredited, a lazy man's way of doing evaluations for quality) you could be bragging about the shrewd move you made to get their degree before the price tripled.

Cat with an Unaccredited MBA June 7, 2008 at 5:03 p.m.

"Don't be jealous of Online Education at Low Prices with High Quality Education."

Meow, KWU has been shown over and over to be low quality and low value. You can find that same degree, online, cheaper, and legitimate. If your only concern is cheap and an unaccredited degree, I recommend my alma mater, Trinity Southern. Same usefullness, much cheaper. Meow.

I agree June 7, 2008 at 6:34 p.m.

Block all postings from employees of the associated university and also block it from people who have no real experience with the school they are commenting on. Only students of the school should be allowed to comment.

Ex-WNU Student June 7, 2008 at 7:15 p.m.

"except for one caveat"
Here we go again with another WNU employee trying to make WNU sound like a great place to get a degree. I am not exageration when I say the their degrees are worthless. They only mention Texas, but there are many other states that their degrees are worthless too. They also don't mention that WNU doesn't tell people that their degrees are worthless in these states because that only what your money.

The reason that I am an ex-WNU student is because that when I found out about the degree being worthless for me to use in Texas I knew that it was senseless to continue with their degree program. Only someone working for WNU would make a statement like the one above.

Like I said before WNU employees should not be able to make posting on this site.

Lawmaker June 8, 2008 at 7:35 p.m.

"A KWU/WNU degree confered before any accreditation is still unaccredited and against the law in many states to use."
FALSE

Degrees are not accredited, universities are. It is highly unlikely anyone will ever say "What year did you graduate and was the school accredited when you started there?" WNU, once accredited, looses the substandard status and yes, the accreditation pulls in.

Remember, not one engineer who put a man on the moon had previously graduated from an unaccredited university.

More likely they will just look at the list of accredited universities posted at the Dept. of Ed website. :)

PT Barnum June 9, 2008 at 3:07 a.m.

"I'm sure there are graduates outside of Texas who have found personal, professional and/or economic benefits from their degrees at WNU."

If they do exist, they are harder to find than Bigfoot. They are always unnamed people in unnamed companies. But the ones who get caught with these "degrees" are named, along with their company very publicly, lol.

There was almost no accreditation prior to 1965 June 9, 2008 at 4:02 p.m.

Even by 1978, less than half of (some now very famous) universities were accredited.
There are many 55+ year olds who graduated from universities that were not accredited then, but are now (with most getting their accreditation in the last 20 years).

90% of CEOs in this country are over 50! Employees aged 50-65 are also by far the highest paid and most valuable employees.

PT Barnum June 10, 2008 at 12:20 a.m.

"There was almost no accreditation prior to 1965" (Obvious answer: because there wasn't a proliferation of cheap and easy unrecognized "degrees" available by mail, and eventually Internet)

Let me try: There were almost no driver licenses prior to 1920! And some of those people are still driving and one became president, and once drove through California, which is one of the 5 states KWU has been in, so it's gotta be good!

It's like playing to 6 degrees of separation to figure out how this has any relationship to substandard KWU degrees or somehow makes them useful. LOL.

@ ignorant lawmaker June 10, 2008 at 11:39 a.m.

Institutions confer degrees and they are either accredited or not. That much is obvious. Under Texas Education code...

(11) "Fraudulent or substandard degree" means:
(A) a degree conferred by a private postsecondary educational institution or other person that, at the time the degree was conferred, was operating in this state in violation of this subchapter;

Public degrees without accreditation many years ago do not fall under the stipulation. Unaccredited degrees that are conferred by diploma mills that ever fell on the list will not be legal even after they are taken off the list. Only those with degrees conferred after the date they are taken off the list will be recognized. You will find this type of language in several state codes.

As far as what employers do that is up to them. Are you willing to face arrest and lose your job just to use a fraudulent degree?

To Frank June 13, 2008 at 12:33 a.m.

Hey, that means those individuals who are presently implementing the economic policies of the USA are professionals to be either federal prisoners or license plate developers, chefs or useless individuals making salaries over $100K?

With that said, the PhD Economist from IVY League School can't figure a way out to get the Markets back on track?

Ding Ding Ding, you are absoultely right that, this is all thanks to US Department of Education Fully Accredited Universities that presently have developed scholars into so-called leaders.

Frank - It seems you have experience in Shower Bending Experience. Maybe, writing a Dummies Guide/Crash Guide/101 Tips of Suriving Federal & State Prisons/Shower Bending might be New York Times # 1 Top Seller.

Go for it!!!!!!!!!

@ Accredidation June 13, 2008 at 6:03 a.m.

WNU hasn't achieved anything as of yet. If you want to get good job experience you need a good degree to open the door for you. If you get an unaccredited degree like WNU the only jobs you are elligable for are the same as if you had never gone at all. You used to be able to get government jobs with this degree but no longer.

It is "accreditation" BTW.

PT Barnum June 13, 2008 at 8:02 p.m.

Hello, I am the PT Barnum poster.
I keep posting these stupid statements on this blog because I am upset that no one has ever gotten in any real trouble for using a WNU degree. I keep seeing my friends get better jobs than me and they do not walk around all disgruntled. I hates WNU. Hatem, hatem, hatem.

I am we Tod it.
I am sofa king we Tod it.

PT Barnum June 16, 2008 at 1:46 p.m.

Almeda = KWU = Rochville. All unaccredited, all of limited utility.

"no one has ever gotten in any real trouble for using a WNU degree"

Please see the list of expose articles on Kennedy Western under the post "And other articles on KWU April 22, 2008 at 2:43 a.m."

Every single one of them is from a newspaper report, TV News reports (ABC, NBC) or Senate hearing with sworn testimony that discuss KWU. Which of these sources do you consider bogus?

PT Barnum June 16, 2008 at 7:08 p.m.

I rest my case at

Facts 126 (all from valid sources that KW"u" scholars couldn't even attempt to refute)

KW"u" - 0.

Warning - Don't Use in the State of Washington June 25, 2008 at 5:33 a.m.

RCW 28A.415.024
Credit on salary schedule — Accredited institutions — Verification — Penalty for submitting credits from unaccredited institutions.

(b) Certificated staff who submit degrees received from an unaccredited educational institution for the purposes of receiving a salary increase shall be fined three hundred dollars. The fine shall be paid to the office of the superintendent of public instruction and used for costs of administering this section.

c) In addition to the fine in (b) of this subsection, certificated staff who receive salary increases based upon degrees earned from educational institutions that have been verified to be unaccredited must reimburse the district for any compensation received based on these degrees.

LtCdr Boggs June 27, 2008 at 2:47 p.m.

There is an old fighter pilot slogan.
You know you are right on target when you start to receive lots of flack.

WNU is right on target. Go WNU!

WWII Fighter Pilot and KWU Grad. Retired
LtCdr Marc Boggs

Classic lie June 27, 2008 at 7:05 p.m.

“FYI: Kennedy-Western was unaccredited last year due to administrative issues; as a result Adriane has enrolled in Northcentral University in Arizona;"

That's alot of comedy crammed into one sentence.

"was unaccredited last year due to administrative issues" -

Only last year?? due to a technicality of some sort?? not the last 25 years for failing to provide a recognized program?

"as a result Adriane has enrolled in Northcentral University in Arizona"

Why would someone get a 2nd PhD in the exact same thing from a different university, if the first one was legitimate?

USA O-6 July 1, 2008 at 4:40 p.m.

WNU is a fine school. Graduation has served me well.

diplomamillnews July 3, 2008 at 12:23 a.m.

YSF writes "Anyone that believes being accredited makes a difference is a FOOL."

Anyone caught attempting to gain employment or a promotion in any one of the states with 'diploma mill' laws by flashing a 'degree mill' on their resume will face jail time and/or hefty fines.

U.S. Department of Education
Diploma Mills and Accreditation

"Remember: In some states, it can be illegal to use a degree from an institution that is not accredited by a nationally recognized accrediting agency, unless approved by the state licensing agency."

Name calling can be slander July 4, 2008 at 12:49 p.m.

Be careful with the slander.

Just because this site is in Canada, does not mean that your computers unique identifier in USA is not obtainable(for any one that knows how to get it:)).

Federal courts have ruled it illegal to call WNU a Diploma Mill.

If WNU is in a legal state (that you also live in) and you defame them, you can be sued (you will not win the suit) in your state in a civil action. If you live in a state like Texas though, you are probably ok since the Fed will likely not take up the suit. ;>)

Freedom of speech only goes so far.

Just A Guy July 6, 2008 at 3 a.m.

WNU= DIPLOMA MILL Go Ahead and Sue Me!!! LOL

Just A guy July 6, 2008 at 3:06 a.m.

By the way this entire site is just OPINION.

I can say that I think that HARVARD has become a diploma Mill and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it.

No court in that land would hear the suit, Idiot!!

@Accreditation July 7, 2008 at 1:27 a.m.

Initial accreditation doesn't exist. They are a candidate for accreditation which doesn't carry the status. If they do become accredited by the end of the year then anyone who graduates after that date will have an accredited diploma... not before.

Yea July 13, 2008 at 3:03 p.m.

Show me one diploma that has "accredited" stamped on it.

Lawmaker July 13, 2008 at 3:14 p.m.

"The state laws are untested and unenforcable in the private sector. The states will not test these laws. They have already lost this argument several times in district federal courts."

You are correct sir!

Expect fecal matter replys to your facts.

Expect that maggot "Meow" poster or the human debris "PT Barnum" poster to say Meow or whatever.

Tru Dat - Articles About Kennedy-Western July 14, 2008 at 12:16 p.m.

Here is a couple articles to start looking at. I'm not sure how to find case law, but I do know all the states still clearly list their laws, and more and more are adding to the list. Here is a sampling of articles.

***"Federal Employees Have Obtained Degrees from Diploma Mills and Other Unaccredited Schools, Some at Government Expense."

***"Diploma Mills are Easily Created and Some Have Issued Bogus Degrees to Federal Employees at Government Expense."

***"Bogus Degrees and Unmet Expectations: Are Taxpayer Dollars Subsidizing Diploma Mills?"

***"It May Take Hours, But You Too Can Earn a University Degree"

***"When Elected Officials Aren't What They Seem
Texas officials and Pennsylvania cats tout misleading credentials"

***“Real officials, bogus degrees, Fake degrees a growing Texas problem”

***"A dirty dozen - 12 famous diploma mills."

***“Are Fraudulent Academic Degrees Making a Mark on Engineering?”

***“Fighting Fakery - Diploma mills continue to churn out new "graduates" every day. What should legitimate colleges do about them? Is government action called for?”

***“Two less doctors in the house - Hebert, Wilson back away from Ph.D.'s issued by 'diploma mills'”

***“CBS 42 Investigates: Professors' questionable credentials”

***"PS Your PhD may be BS"

***"Texas officials and Pennsylvania cats tout misleading credentials"" MEOW!

***Supervisor of Elections race: Candidate denounces opponent for spreading 'scurrilous rumors.' Oops. What if there were no rumors, scurrilous or otherwise?***