Warren National University

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Re John C

This has been a major issue. I honestly think that you need to be persistent. I already gave Mr Peterson's email as well as the name and contact info for his lawyer, via Rothgerber, Johnson and Lyon.

I really think persistence is the key here.

Now what you say about employers really depends on the employer.

I do not pretend to know everything but I do like to give a little counter balance to all the negative publicity regarding KWU and WNU. There are too sides to every story and I think people should see it from both sides.

"Unlawful to discriminate against graduates of unaccredited schools"

More garbage advice from a dubious source.  Employers (as I found out) always require a college degree, and an accredited one at that as a Bonfide Occupational Qualification.  When you don't have one, you are simply unqualified for the position.

I don't know what broad point you are trying to make with your copy/paste, but as alumni, let's try to be helpful and realistic.

If you really want to help out fellow alumni, find a way to get transcripts more timely or electronically.

"I would get a second opinion on that tax thing"

Well, I went to the most respected tax attorney in town and had my buddy who is a CPA look into it also on the side by calling the IRS.  Both said I don't have a leg to stand on.

I posted this before but since old posts are soon forgotten:

Unlawful to discriminate against graduates of unaccredited schools

degreeinfo.com/distance-learning-discussions/30860-unlawful-discrimate-against-graduates-unaccredited-schools(dot)html

THE ACT OF ACCEPTING A GRADUATE SOLELY BECAUSE THE SCHOOL ATTENDED WAS ACCREDITED OR UNACCREDITED, AND NOT BECAUSE THE ALUMNUS IS QUALIFIED IS DEEMED TO BE AN UNLAWFUL ACT OF PRACTICING "STATUS DISCRIMINATION," PUNISHABLE UNDER THE U.S. CONSTITUTION, UNDER THE LAWS OF STATES, AND UNDER THE RULES OF THE GENEVA CONVENTION/WORLD COURT AT THE HAGUE.

Re: Re: If it were me

Another self-appointed "expert" who never attended our school stating another worthless opinion.

Strangely enough, sometimes a bureaucrat gets it right.

I know, hard to believe that even a "Johnny Cochran" lawyer wouldn't be able to successfully refute the fact that WN"u"s Wyoming license was meaningless and that Warren was not a "real" college.

It's sad really, since so many students did study hard but ended up with a worthless "degree".  

I would get a second opinion on that tax thing.
You might look at Herb Cohen's "You can negotiate anything." It gives some useful advice on how to deal with bureaucrats.

Yes, this was after I talked to a tax attorney.  Since WNU was unaccredited and unrecognized, it does not meet the requirements for the IRS tax credits / tuition deductions.  I brought up the State of Wyoming license they held and was told that it was largely meaningless in general, but totally meaningless to the IRS.

So, no, I do not have a very good defense.

Guess I threw some good money after bad.

You might consider a good tax attorney. The IRS is making a completely arbitrary decision and for them to say Warren is not a "real" college is going beyond their responsibilities. Consider that Warren and Kennedy-Western before it were license by a public entity (the State of Wyoming) I think you have a very good defense.

I'm amazed to find out my degree is worthless after all these years, the only way I found out was from the IRS and needed more proof of the money I spent, only to find out it was not considered a real college and have to pay back my deduction.

I did so by emailing bobpatterson562@gmail.com

It took a very long time but it finally happened.

If you do not get immediate results I suggest you need to be persistent.

I just want to know where my transcripts are physically (located)and who has possession of them. Has anyone successfully acquired theirs after they closed?

Re: My 2 cents:
And I am proud of my Kennedy-Western degree. And I did not waste any money. Whats your point?

Even if you wasted some money at KWU, never too late to go back and get a valid college degree!  I did and am very proud of it, it has been useful in the workforce too.

"Experienced"
Glad to see someone admit it is the value the student supplies to the employer and not accreditation of a child molesting university that matters.

Those NASA engineers may not have had an "accredited" degree but it's also certain that they didn't just purchase a "diploma" or "degree" from some "read the book write the test" outfit.  They did have authentic credentials and were obviously quite competent in their fields of endeaver.  They also probably had a good grasp of the English language and could communicate well unlike many of WN'u's "graduates".

(Note that although this sounds like student bashing it is NOT.  It was the perpetrators of that online money-generating outfit that are deservedly being sued.  Many students did study hard but were duped into thinking that a K-W degree had some value.)

The day the U.S. put a man on the moon, not one single Engineer at NASA had a degree from an accredited university.

Re Honest John

You are evading the question. 

Only one person ever said its possible to earn (and I am not talking about any credit for life experience, I do mean earn) 40% of their credit through testing. That was the witness who lied in front of the US Senate. 

No where in that lawsuit you keep citing or the hypocrite CAO who enriched herself off of the students at Warren and then threw them under the bus, did it say that this is possible. I repeat, No where. 

I rest my case.

And I'll keep giving you the same answer.  If a Senate investigation, the Chief Academic Officer of WNU, and hundreds of students in a lawsuit say it can be done exactly that way, what is on the other side of the argument that you can document? 

1 anonymous internet poster?    LOL.

Re: James

I am laughing at your refusal to answer the same question which had been asked of you time and time before.

Tell me of one instance (other than that laughable testimony at that farce of an investigation before the US Senate) in which anyone could claim to have passed 40% of their classes in 16 hours.

I insist it cannot be done.

Sorry that you are in denial, hundreds of students have now said in sworn testimony what WN"u" was really about. 

Large "life experience" awards.  Multiple choice tests you could take multiple times to count as a "class".  It was exactly that, which will be it's legacy.  Many of us have moved onto either the lawsuit or starting over and getting a real degree.

And I laugh at your assertion that anyone accepts degrees from WN"u"

Re: James

I would like to answer what you posted:

47 So what? Many accredited schools have similar admissions policies. Do you really think its that hard to get into the University of Phoenix?

48 Totally subjective. Some businesses accept degrees from Warren. Some do not.

49
c Not really true. Instructors were available. You could also get help from other students via the message board. I would agree that the availability of instructors was less than perfect but I do not think it different from other distance learning programs.
d Not really. Students could do this for 4 out of ten courses. And students still had to figure out the answers. It really was not as easy as it is described here.
e Red herring. There were lectures posted online. I would add that in most classes I took at accredited schools it was no different. In fact, most colleges courses draw their exam material from text books.

BTW: Did any of your sources happen to mention the 100 page final project required of all students?

Re: James

Sorry, I meant to say 16 hours.

Again, no where in the suite do any students cite that it is possible to do this. You have not refuted my point.

Re: James

What you posted is a non-sequitor.

You said that it is possible to take 4 exams, which is to say 40% of the testing grades in 17 hours.

What you posted has nothing to do with what I asked you.

You still have not proven your point.

How the REAL students of WNU feel.  From their lawsuit.

"47. Defendant WNU had no admissions board; applications for admissions to Defendant WNU were reviewed by one person and if you could write a check for tuition you 
were enrolled. "

"48.  Defendant WNU falsely stated to the Plaintiffs that: 
d. Defendant WNU's degree meets needs for career and job advancement. 
e. Defendant WNU's degrees are accepted in business and industry."

"49. did not inform the students that: 
c. Despite requests from Plaintiffs to communicate with instructors for questions or one-on-one learning, no such instruction was provided. 
e. Students could take the same test a second time, after they learned the correct answers from the first test.  The exams were shams; there was no exam integrity. 
g. Defendant WNU's program consisted of reading a book and taking an exam. "

Sound familiar?

"And guess what, it is not only myself who will tell you that its impossible. Every person who attended Warren National University will tell you the same."

Well of course, all of them except the ones who testified under oath or those all suing for the exact same reasons.  I'll list some of my favorite lawsuit portions filed by the REAL students of WNU like me.

LOL

Well Daniel, neither Warren National nor Kennedy-Western before it had a football team. I doubt if there were even showers there.

Yea, the US Senate is all in a tiffy about Kennedy-Western when you have kids being sodomized at an accredited big ten school. Shows you where THEIR priorities are at!

Another response to James:

I will repeat this to everyone: NOBODY who actually took classes and took the exams at Warren will EVER tell you that it is possible to pass 4 courses in 16 hours.

And I have spoken with a number of graduates. They all tell me the same. Its absolutely impossible.

If you can tell me otherwise than I defy you to prove it!

Re: James

You completed 4 complete courses in 16 hours?
I do not believe you. Can you prove it?

And guess what, it is not only myself who will tell you that its impossible. Every person who attended Warren National University will tell you the same.

The only people who claim otherwise are people who never attended the school.

I do believe Penn.State is fully US Dept. of ED -government approved, accredited.  No?

No Senate investigations there either.  Hmm.

And for the record, it was pretty standard operating procedure to do so.  You appear to the the only one claiming it was different.

"You know, four finals for four courses to be completed in 16 hours?"

I did it.  It was not a challenge.  That's not even counting my generous "life experience" award that I didn't even have to take one multiple exam for.

Re Didnt whatever

So are you still unwilling to take the challenge I offered?

You know, four finals for four courses to be completed in 16 hours?

Or are you just going to keep talking trash?

Talk is cheap.

"Or to put it in another way, Kennedy-Western filled a gap."

Yep, it was definitely a niche market for those unable to complete a college degree.  After they were run out of business in Wyoming, there were still many real colleges offering the same degrees in business, engineering, and other fields that were accepted (unlike KWU) for grad schools and professional licensing.

Or to put it in another way, Kennedy-Western filled a gap. Now many will say that this was not a "real" university because it was not accredited. But I would say that it did break ground for a lot of accredited schools to follow. That simply cannot be denied.

I see this as something bigger actually.
The video shows that money and education are tied in together.
The cost of an education is a crime. Pure and simple. In many counties in the world, higher education is free. 
But in the US banks and schools have conspired to bilk students out of tens or even hundreds of thousands.

I do not necessarily think that unaccredited institutions are better values as those that are. But I do think that as long as it becomes too expensive for average people to pursue higher learning, unaccredited schools may be an attractive option to many.

I do know that ten years ago it was impossible to find an accredited Distance Learning program in Engineering. Kennedy-Western University and several other schools paved the way and then other accredited schools began to introduce programs. Today Walden, DeVry and several others have programs. But its important to remember that it was Kennedy-Western that started it all.

With as tired as the US public is with its government, government backed accreditation and the Dept. of Ed., it will not be long until non-accredited universities are looked on more favorably by the private sector than the so called "Accredited" ones.  The times, they are a changing.

Re: Danial

I did see that video posted by Alex Jones.
I am not 100% in his corner but that video was pretty thought provoking.

So why do you need to come here to post about a school that you never attended and that went out of business?

What do you get out of this?

I don't get it.

Go to you tube and search "Education Scam" then look at the one by the NIA.  Interesting.  

Congratulations?

You now have a receipt for your unaccredited degree?

I finally got my transcripts.

I did so by emailing bobpatterson562@gmail.com

It took a very long time but it finally happened.

The diploma mill lawsuit against Warren National by students is still ongoing, but I doubt that we will be able to get any money from that dump.

What ever came of that lawsuit several years back?  Seems like it went nowhere.

Southern New Hampshire University will gladly take all Warren National credits and graduates.  Contact Danielle Mullins there.   1-888-387-0861.

SNHU is regionally accredited.

"nor did it reveal the super secret grad school that will accept credits."

My experience from checking around is that only unaccredited colleges will take unaccredited credits or degrees.  You can Google for some of them and take your pick.

Sorry I forgot to address that towards you:

One more time

Contact attorney Gary Scott at the Hirst, Applegate firm in Cheyenne, WY: (307) 632-0541. 

And ask him or his secretary to send you your transcripts.

OK Then I will make this as easy as possible:

Contact attorney Gary Scott at the Hirst, Applegate firm in Cheyenne, WY: (307) 632-0541. 

And ask him or his secretary to send you your transcripts.

Re: Fakey McMoron

I really do not understand why people like yourself come to this site to bash a University which is already shut down. What do you get out of this?

Its obvious that you never attended this school. And you will never answer questions put to you.

Just curious.

To Macker:  Look at the timeline
1.  Investigated by the Senate
2.  Shut down by the State
3.  Sued by students

Now nobody will take the credits?

I'm starting to get a bad feeling...

Well, thanks for (not) help.  I did not find anything useful on the Facebook site, nor did it reveal the super secret grad school that will accept credits.  I'm not familiar with linkedindotcom.  Lost the job offer, but hopefully something else will pop up.

Stonewalled currently trying to get transcripts like everyone else.

I will explain this as easy as I can.

1 Go to linkedin(dot)com
2 If you don't have an account, than create one. It can be done in a matter of seconds.
3 Once you are logged in you can search..
Warren National University/Kennedy Western University Graduates

or 

Warren National University/Kennedy Western University Alum

You can request membership in both groups.

From there you can network with others.
You can also find several schools which accept credits from our school.

Who cares about them, I earned my degree.  Will someone else post a grad school that will work with me?  Just one would be an incredible help.

Also need immediate assistance on transcripts.

The heck with them, I earned my degree.  Can someone else post the name of a grad school that will work with me.

Also need immediate assistance on transcripts!

What!?!  The heck with them, I earned my degree.  Can someone else post a grad school that will work with me?

Also need an immediate response on transcripts for my employer

"The Accredit ion mafia got wind of it and closed the whole thing down."

Sorry, I meant to say that they forced Grand Canyon to stop accepting WNU and KWU degrees and credits. But anyway we need to be careful about what we say here and elsewhere.

This is a bit of a dangerous question. You see, many on this board would like to see any College or University penalized because they will accept credits earned at WNU or KWU. This actually happened at Grand Canyon University which is an accredited Christian college in Arizona. The Accreditation mafia got wind of it and closed the whole thing down.

For this reason I will not post the names here.

If you really need to know this than I would request membership in the Linkedin group (go to linkedin(dot)com) and request membership in the Warren National University/Kennedy-Western University group. You will get a lot of information there.

Applied for a job, but they cannot get transcripts, any help?

I just have a WNU bachelors degree, what ar ethe names of the colleges that will accept me for grad school?

Thanks in advance, 

Those are example of unaccredited institutions. I was referring to accredited schools.

"One more thing, though I dislike Facebook, there is a discussion there concerning ways around getting accepted at a few schools without having your transcripts"

For example, Rochville University and Almeda University will accept unaccredited degrees without transcripts.

Re: Need Help
If you look at the previous posts you will note that this is a very common problem that Alums are having. 

First of all, do not waste your time with Preston. They no longer are in any way associated with Warren National or Kennedy-Western. 

According to several sources, the former administrators of WNU are not able to send out documents until after the current lawsuit is settled. This is entirely unconfirmed but I am told that this is why we cannot get our transcripts.

Officially, you should contact Attorney, Gary Scott via email at Gscott@hirstapplegate.com and he would forward your transcript request.

To my knowledge, no one has gotten a response but that is the answer everyone gets when they call the office.

One more thing, though I dislike Facebook, there is a discussion there concerning ways around getting accepted at a few schools without having your transcripts

Need help finding transcripts, Does anyone have the Preston univresity contact info?

"I laugh at your inability to graduate from a real college."

I laugh at your inability to answer any questions presented to you.

Re: Bad Idea

While I do not always agree with what he says, I think Dave Featherly did write an interesting article. In his interview with the WNU student who earned that degree, I believe he had a pretty good assessment. And I liked that he stated that his problem was not with the students.

And that has always been my goal, to speak on behalf of the students.

I just get upset when people try to imply that it did not take effort for anyone to earn a degree. I am glad that someone admitted that we did have to work for our degrees.

Good work David.

Continued:

Also, I never said that anyone should contact Preston University regarding transcripts. That school has no connection whatsoever to WNU or KWU. At one time there was a connection but this no longer exists.

More info to Carla:

Earlier, someone had posted some second something else regarding Transcripts for former students. They stated the former administrators of WNU are not able to send out documents until after the current lawsuit is settled. I do not know if it is true but I only know what others are saying.

Re: Experienced, did you really read what I was saying? I am not defending the former administrator of Warren or Kennedy-Western before that, but I have argued on behalf of the students who earned their degrees there.

Sending lots of energy your way too.

To Carla:  Thank you for your honesty in admitting that the diploma you purchased (but never received because of the dishonesty of WN'U's owners) is worthless.  Please be advised however that it is NOT true that " ... peole will screw you at any chance they get ... ".  I too was burned by WN"u"s dishonesty but that doesn't destroy my trust in everyone.  Hang in there - although you were ripped off by those weasels I'm sure your studies did benefit you personally.

To Rainbow:  Don't recommend Preston as they are at least as bad as WN"u" was.  And ... what the heck is " ... spiritual energy ... " that you are "sending".
Sounds like a lot of BS to me which is not surprising since you have spent a lot verbiage defending those weasels who ripped off thousands of people with their phony "university".  C'mon "rainbow", wake up and see the truth - your arguments are as flimsy as the "diplomas" that WN"u" sold to their unsuspecting customers.

Re: Carla

You may try contacting attorney Gary Scott at the Hirst, Applegate firm in Cheyenne, WY: (307) 632-0541. He represents Bob Patterson, as well as other owners of the school. 

As strange as it would seem the representative from Rothgerber, Johnson and Lyon told me that she knew of no legal obligation that Mr Peterson had to provide transcripts.

She did suggest that if any of us contacted a lawyer than we might be able to do something but her law firm was unable to do anything further. 

As for Preston U, they were for a very brief time affiliated with Warren. Currently there is no connection whatsoever between these two colleges. Preston seems to be a Pakistani based college with a home office in LA. They keep a very low profile and last I heard they were seeking accreditation.

Anyway I am sending you lots of spiritual energy and wish you the best. Please let us know how you do.

I just learned of all of this today and it's most distrubing after trying to get my diploma and transcripts. I paid cash in full, in advance to Kennedy-Western for my Master's Degree - MBA with a marketing concentration. I never received my diploma, although I completed all the required coursework. 

I just want my piece of paper. I know it's worthless, but I paid for it, studied for it, earned it and I want it. We were told to contact Preston University and they are just downright rude. I can't believe they can just say, "No, we can't help you. Bye," and get away with it!

I just want that piece of paper. Man, how on earth did this happen? When will I learn - people will screw you at every chance they get.

Local newspaper interviews kennedy western "university" "student".  Much of the same, but still good reading.

"My talk with a Kennedy-Western degree-holder who has only recently learned just how little that degree holds for her."

cheyenneherald.com/_pdf/2011/August%202011/August%202,%202011%20page%208.pdf

Re: Bad Idea:

Exectedly substandard you say?

Just what does the word "exectedly" mean?

Those who live in glass houses should not misspell words.

"So you are saying that it is unlawful to join Facebook groups? This is interesting."

Your reading comprehension is exectedly substandard.

Anyone can join any type of facebook group of course, but publicly associating with organizations that are specifically listed in many state laws would be considered unwise by some.

Re: Bad Idea:

So you are saying that it is unlawful to join Facebook groups? This is interesting. 

I would guess that the Accreditation Mafia is hard at work. First they shut down all colleges which are not up to their own standards, then they passed (unenforceable) laws in some areas which criminalized possessors of degrees. Now they are making it illegal to link up on social media?

Nice work guys. Guess its time to bury my American flag.

Better hide your copy of the US Constitution. That will be the next thing to go.

"You might want to join the Facebook group at 
facebook.com/pages/Kennedy-Western-UniversityWarren-National-University-Alumni/117171474969710"

I cannot think of a worse idea.  Be smart, stay below the radar, do not attach your name to Kennedy Western or Warren National in any public or searchable format.

I will admit one thing though, I always prefer the self policing approach to weeding out graduates of institutions which some employers would believe does not meet their own standards, to de jure enforcement. E.G.If you do not want to hire a WNU or KWU grad than that's your business. Just do not pass any laws telling me who I can hire.

Re: Richard J.

So where did YOU get YOUR MBA?
And who do you think YOU are fooling?

Had the most comical interview with an MBA from this supposed college.  Needless to say, it did not go well for him.  Who do these morons think they are fooling?

Facebook is the DEVIL!

See "The Social Network!"

Re: Albert R:

You might want to join the Facebook group at 
facebook.com/pages/Kennedy-Western-UniversityWarren-National-University-Alumni/117171474969710

You have some interesting ideas. I saw this same thing posted before. Maybe it was you.

Its not a bad idea to restart the University but if it moves to Florida it would have to be under the original name of Kennedy-Western since Warren is the name of the first Governor of Wyoming.

Someone would need to pony up some money to get it started and thats the real problem. If it is done, I hope that they do it the honest way and really get serious about getting accrdition.

But if someone can make this happen I think it would be good.

The quality of the latest posting by "Albert" is quite indicative of the quality of "education" received by wn"u".  There's no way this individual could earn a degree from a real university as a decent command of the English language is a must with legitimate schools.

Warren national University, should be open operation again. the education was excellent.They have the high technology and the tools necesary to solver the accreditation.they can to get accreditation in other states. Example Florida is great play for to get ac
creditation with Advanc/ ED. Worlde Wide. Advanced School Accreditation for NCA/ CASI/ and SACS/ CASI Schols. they need only move to florida to get the florida state licence next applite to this licence. read the proceduct and cover the expecification. I have experience in this process if warren national University want open I am tell the process to find the acreditation.
Thank you AL R.

The horse has givin up the ghost long ago so you can stop beating it.

"I am now working towards a Masters."

Luckily, by your own admission, you had a real bachelors degree to get into grad school.  No recognized university accepted a degree from Kennedy Western as a basis.

I did earn a degree at an accredited University as well as at Kennedy-Western. I am now working towards a Masters.

So if anyone wants to laugh than go ahead and do so.

Hey Sam, 

I got some terrible news to report to you.
Texas is still part of the United States and, unfortunately for haters like you, there is still a Constitution in the US.

No one has ever been prosecuted under that totally unenforceable law you cited because it would be easy to strike down and every attorney knows it.

And I apologize to Rainbow Warrior for stealing his post but here is something else to consider:

degreeinfo.com/distance-learning-discussions/30860-unlawful-discrimate-against-graduates-unaccredited-schools(dot)html

THE ACT OF ACCEPTING A GRADUATE SOLELY BECAUSE THE SCHOOL ATTENDED WAS ACCREDITED OR UNACCREDITED, AND NOT BECAUSE THE ALUMNUS IS QUALIFIED IS DEEMED TO BE AN UNLAWFUL ACT OF PRACTICING "STATUS DISCRIMINATION," PUNISHABLE UNDER THE U.S. CONSTITUTION, UNDER THE LAWS OF STATES, AND UNDER THE RULES OF THE GENEVA CONVENTION/WORLD COURT AT THE HAGUE.


Maybe you should consider moving to some place you would feel more at home. Maybe the People's Republic of China.

"we are free individuals and have the right to claim any educational experience we choose."

You can make any claim you want, just be careful in this specific topic that you do not claim a Warren National "university" "degree" in the many states where it is specifically listed as illegal, such as here in Texas where it is listed as an "illegal or substandard degree".

And luckily, all employers can equally reject your claim for having no merit based on generally accepted academic standards.

Re: Free Thinker

Sam will always use the same arguments to try bolster his arguments.

I think its best to ignore such ramblings until he can acually answer any of the questions you put to him.

Here is one undeniable fact though: we are free individuals and have the right to claim any educational experience we choose. And if anyone should try to deny us our freedoms than they are the ones who should be ashamed.

Re: Rainbow Warrior

Excellent points.

I happened to notice that Sam is again recited the same circular-path arguments. Citing the same points and proving nothing.

Re: Sam

So tell me once again (and I will repeat myself for the 100th time) HOW MANY STUDENTS WERE ALLOWED TO GIVE TESTIMONY AT THAT "INVESTIGATION?"

Re: Experience

I understand that your experience was not a good one. But what do you say to the rest of us who actually benefited from our education?

I think you only need to look at the post of the individual who posted before you (Sam the Sham) to realize what kind of lies are being spread about people like us.

The truth is, and I know you will agree, that we DID work hard for our degrees. And I will NEVER say to anyone my degree is worthless.

You are entitled to your opinion but I have my own.

I would add one more thing, do you really believe anything that the so-called investigation by the GAO stated? I do not for one minute.

Rainbow, thanks for not using excessive vitriol in your response - that's quite refreshing in a forum that's often full of nastiness instead of good healthy polemics.

I do want to comment on your statement saying that you support and defend the "university" but not the principals and administrators.

I don't believe that's possible since the university WAS the "principals and administrators" and the students were just people who (like myself) mistakenly thought they were purchasing something of value.

Yes, the students who did expend a lot of effort in their studies did get something of value but not from WN"u".  What they learned was no doubt valuable but, unfortunately for them, their "degree" truly is worthless.

The law firm handling the suit (Rothgerber, Johnson & Lyons) is doing an extremely thorough job but unfortunately it's very time consuming.  We just have to patiently wait and see what the outcome will be.

Whatever the Wyoming court decides the fact still remains that thousands of students truly did not get anything from WN"u" that's even close in value to the thousands of dollars that they spent.

Also, those "administrators and principals" (and the owners) took in multiplied millions of dollars from people over the years and it cost them only a very tiny fraction of that to maintain that business.

That was truly unethical.  I'm not a lawyer so my comments on the legality of their enterprise can be debated but in my opinion they are certainly guilty of wilful misrepresentation of the value of their "service".

As I said earlier, although the Wyoming court is just a legal entity and not a bastion of Truth nevertheless its decision will be important in determining how the whole issue pans out in the end.
    

"And please stop alluding to that idiotic Senate witch hunt."

KW"u" was picked as a sample of a diploma mill.  It was convened by the Senate.  KW"u" provided info, an employee testified, an undercover sting was conducted.  All in sworn testimony, never contradicted since.

"Counterpoint: 30000 students graduated. Many benefited from the experience."

Correction.  Thousands of people purchased unusable credentials.

"Counterpoint: No witnesses were allowed to testify on behalf of the students or the University. It was all a sham."

Incorrect, KW"u" provided the most damaging info themselves.  1 "faculty" member, awards of 33-50% credit towards a masters degree for "life experience" for ALL students, cold-calling unqualified "students" to "enroll"  etc, etc.  

"A Chief Academic Officer came forward" 

I'm sorry you can't even identify the CAO of your diploma mill, but her testimony cooroborated all accounts from the Senate investigation and student diploma mill lawsuit.  All 3 are in lock step.

"The owners of the University are screwing former students"

At least we can agree on that.  It is unfortunate all former students are left holding the bag, out of money, with nothing to show for it.

"Oregon lawsuit"

That is all you are holding onto?  1 state where you still need an embarrassing disclaimer to list a KW"u" degree and ignoring the rest of states were it is just illegal?

A preponderance of evidence outweighs your feeble attempts to rationalize.

About transcripts:

IMHO if there is one thing that the owners of the University need to be confronted with its this transcript thing. In fact THIS is the one thing I would probably agree with Experienced on. Sadly, for those of us who were loyal to our school, I can say that they really are screwing us and its really hard to defend a school that screws over its students.

I see it this way, I support and defend the University but the principals and administrators who are holding out on us deserve all the scorn they get.

Re: Sam

It was never tried or convicted. There is a lawsuit of a a hundred or so individuals. But this is leading no where. 

This case is before a court in the United States where, according to common law all are innocent until proven guilty.

And please stop alluding to that idiotic Senate witch hunt. Nothing was proven except that when people are desperate enough to stop an idea they will stoop to no level to reach their goal. The Senators who held that Kangaroo Court should hang their heads in shame.

The cycle keeps going round and round and its easy to see where this leads.

Point: Kennedy Western and Warren National University is a phony school.

Counterpoint: 30000 students graduated. Many benefited from the experience.

Point: An investigation before the Senate "revealed" some damning facts.

Counterpoint: No witnesses were allowed to testify on behalf of the students or the University. It was all a sham.

Point: A Chief Academic Officer came forward and told some important details to a "respected" news source.

Counterpoint: This CAO was never named and no one seems to know who this person is. She was quoted in a newspaper written, published and edited by one individual known for his vitriol comments towards the University and its graduates. This is an extremely biased source which refused to print letters to the editor or op ed comments.

Point: Well what about the lawsuit?

Counterpoint: The owners of the University are screwing former students, sure. But some of us did well with our degrees. And it remains unsettled. Can we really say that this suit really means that a KWU degree is of no value?

And when we bring some evidence of our own, such as the Oregon lawsuit, Dr Bear's comments, and even a challenge to take four exams in 16 hours what can they say?

They begin at square one.

Sam really needs to take a class in rhetorical discussion. 

Experienced,

You have been there so you probably know better than most others. Certainly you are more knowledgeable than this Sam guy.

I understand that your experience was probably not a good one. 

Dwight, they person who uses the moniker "Free thinker" has pointed out several times that a lot of people are pissed because they cannot get transcripts. And I think that is totally wrong. I heard from one source that once the lawsuit blows over this will change. Who knows?

If Warren would not hire graduates to teach than I would ask whether is really that important? A number of schools recruit their faculty from outside. Its quite common in fact.

But even you would have to be a bit suspicious about people stating that it takes 16 hours to pass 40% of classes. I personally think it is impossible without cheating.

The truth is that so many lies have been spread about Kennedy and Warren after it, that I can no longer believe any of it.

And my core point is this: It should be the right of any graduate to claim their degree. And if you think a WNU or KWU degree is of little or no value than you do not have to hire anyone with a degree from there. But do not infringe on MY rights.

Some facts from a former K-W student:

1.  It was right that WN"u" was forced to close.  For too long they had misrepresented the value of their "service" and their "degree".  The law suit has legitimate cause.
2.  Students should not be impuned for being persuaded that their time and money spent was worthwhile.  I too was deceived (as was Dr. Bear years ago) into thinking that the "school" was legitimate.  Even good intelligent people get fooled from time to time.  Yes, thousands of students learned a lot through their studies but their credentials will have to be based on their own merits rather than on the merits of having "graduated" from a real "university" that has met the minimal standards represented by genuine accreditation.
3.   Remember, WN"u" wouldn't even allow any of their own "graduates" to act as instructors or even as academic assistants.  They insisted that any professor hired to help their students be real graduates from real accredited universities.  This speaks volumes and is one of the reasons many students abandoned ship and some of them even joined in the present law suit.
4.  There a several good reasons why there are only about 100 plaintiffs now.  I don't have time to explain now but I can say for sure that it's not due to there not being a large enough number of dissatisfied former K-W / WN"u" customers. 

"You see, Kennedy-Western was a revolutionary idea."

Deception and the want for unearned credentials is hardly an original thought.  At any point in time, there were multitudes of real universities providing real and recognized education in every subject area.  No "ideas" here, except an idea to make money off of people unable to get into college.

"So let them laugh. We will be vindicated in the end"

Check your calendar, the end has passed.  The "university" was investigated by the Senate, forced to close by the State, and all that remains are student lawsuits echoing the same facts from the Senate hearing.

Tried, convicted, and shut down.  Case closed.

Re: Free Thinker

I do not think we should be as hard on Sam. I honestly think he believes that what he says is true. This is understandable since he never attended the University.

This is really what the powers of conformity want everyone to believe. That all the lies and slander which honest people are forced to listen to are all true.

And you can present any argument you want and all of the Sams of this world will remain unconvinced.

But here is the one weapon we have on OUR side, and its a simple but powerful one. We have the TRUTH! 

No, not the half truth and libelous garbage that our enemies throw at us but the REAL truth. WE attended this school and WE know myth from reality.

You see, Kennedy-Western was a revolutionary idea. Their ideas were so revolutionary and were so successful at what they did that the traditionalists had to destroy them by whatever means were possible.

This is the hallmark of any revolutionary idea. When Louis Pasteur promoted the "Germ Theory" he was ridiculed.
So was Galileo and every other great thinker.

So let them laugh. We will be vindicated in the end.

I look at it this way.

Sam represents a very old school of thought. He and his kind were the very same sort who were part of the Holy Inquisition. When someone came up with an idea or a plan, the Inquisition would stop at nothing to destroy it.

Now we have people like Sam and the GAO "investigation" which is trying to destroy academic freedom.

Now we, the students at KWU and WNU are like Galileo. We think outside the box and seek to create something new and exciting.

But those who hate want to destroy this because they love conformity.

So fight on all you conformists! Wage your war of hate! When the innovative minds die, the conventionalist mind shall live forever! 

You really talk the talk Sam but you cannot walk the walk.

Tell me, since you are such an expert, did YOU earn a degree at Kennedy-Western or Warren National?

Talk is cheap.

And yes, Bear is a hypocrite. He supported the University until the wolves gathered around and then he deserted faster than rats deserting a sinking ship. 

"Seems like Sam's patron saint, Dr. Bear had at one time been a big supporter of Kennedy-Western."

And at one time the surgeon general had no problem with drinking and smoking during pregnancy.

Likewise, glad you could find a sentence from 1995 in support of this scam, but for the following 16 years, Bear, regulatory agencies, individual states, and all experts in the field have labelled WN"u" as a diploma mill.  

But thanks for the historical footnote, it's the most recent support anyone has had for KW"u".

"Unlawful to discrimate against graduates of unaccredited schools"

That's an interesting interpretation.  However, all employers can freely disregard any candidate who does not have a bonafide job requirement, such as having a real (not diploma mill) degree.  99% do screen adequately, but some sneak by.  

Take a look at the hundreds of employers on someplace like Monster.com and their requirements for accredited degrees.  Are you saying they are all discriminating?

Re: Sam

Selective reading syndrome I see.

I wonder if this user happened to read everything else that was posted.

Seems like Sam's patron saint, Dr. Bear had at one time been a big supporter of Kennedy-Western.

"Do an experiment and search for Kennedy-Western + PhD. You might be surprised at the number of current college professors who are Kennedy-Western alumni..."

Unfortunately, real and accredited PhD's are a requirement of accreditation.  The occasional KW "u" "professor" that does pop up in expose articles, ends up renouncing their degree in short order.

But I did the search anyway and found many links to a site called "Diploma Mill News", "The Ripoff Report", and ads for Kennedy Western "university" itself!

Unlawful to discrimate against graduates of unaccredited schools

degreeinfo.com/distance-learning-discussions/30860-unlawful-discrimate-against-graduates-unaccredited-schools(dot)html

THE ACT OF ACCEPTING A GRADUATE SOLELY BECAUSE THE SCHOOL ATTENDED WAS ACCREDITED OR UNACCREDITED, AND NOT BECAUSE THE ALUMNUS IS QUALIFIED IS DEEMED TO BE AN UNLAWFUL ACT OF PRACTICING "STATUS DISCRIMINATION," PUNISHABLE UNDER THE U.S. CONSTITUTION, UNDER THE LAWS OF STATES, AND UNDER THE RULES OF THE GENEVA CONVENTION/WORLD COURT AT THE HAGUE.

I attended more than one college and I can say that I could not tell you the name of the "Chief Academic Officer" of any of them.

I do know the names of my instructors, and the deans of the departments and thats about it.

And I would wager most students at most Universities woud tell you the same. A Chief Academic Officer is not someone an average student has contact with on a day-to-day basis.

Oh... since we are talking about references to Kennedy-Western being a legitimate school, there is one piece of evidence to submit:

askmehelpdesk(dot)com/distance-learning/kennedy-western-university-transcripts-527060(dot)html

See the response from DWaterman1334 (no, I am not DWaterman)

Junior Member You might be surprised to know that Kennedy-Western wasn't always a "degree mill." I chose to study there because of what John Bear had to say about the school in his book:

College Degrees by Mail-100 Good Schools that offer Bachelor's, Master's, Doctorates and Law Degrees by Home Study
By John Bear, Ph.D. -1995

I think Dr. Bear may have changed his mind some time around 1999-2000; by that time Kennedy-Western had been in business since the 1980's and had graduated over 23,000 students.

Do an experiment and search for Kennedy-Western + PhD. You might be surprised at the number of current college professors who are Kennedy-Western alumni...

Re: Rainbow Warrior

I agree that a lot of the attitudes are a little hard to take. 

DL Truth is a rather rough-and-tumble fraterity which has its own culture. I do not agree with everything people post there.

But even in a place like that you can find a few gems. I also would say that just because many people there have some strange ideas, it does not mean that everyone there thinks the same way. 

Since academic freedom is under attack these days we need all the help we can get.

I messed up on my email address below. This site really does not allow you to re edit things...

Well

To Dwight:

Its an interesting read by I have some problems with DL Truth. I detect a homophobic, right wing vibe which does not work for me.

If you are going to make an argument you should do so without dragging people's personal lives into it.

But academic freedom is a good thing. You go to a lot of sites and even mention Warren National and people there will beat you over the head.

Its an interesting read by I have some problems with DL Truth. I detect a homophobic, right wing vibe which does not work for me.

If you are going to make an argument you should do so without dragging people's personal lives into it.

But academic freedom is a good thing. You go to a lot of sites and even mention Warren National and people there will beat you over the head.

dltruth.com/thread-1003.html

Looks like someone at DL Truth is thinking what we are thinking.

Academic Freedom is a cause we can all support.

Re: Free Thinker

Yes Dwight. I did respond to one of Sams question since my response does clearly illustrate a situation in which Kennedy-Western graduates actually took a stand against tyranny. You know, most rights that people take for granted are earned through struggle. History shows this.

The rights of students and graduates of non-traditional institutes of higher learning has been under attack and I am grateful that some of us are not taking this lying down.

"Please cite any valid primary or secondary source that contradicts all published reports about this diploma mill and I'd be glad to review them."

Your statement is based on a falacious statement that Warren is some kind of "Diploma Mill." Though the term Diploma Mill is a subjective one, without any clear definition, the fact that it taught courses and granted degrees based on merit would indicate to me that it is indeed a true university.

But to honor your question, let me submit this as evidence:

allbusiness.com/government/government-bodies-offices-public/5612858-1.html

"Oregon officials are also obligated under the settlement agreement to refrain from characterizing KWU as a diploma mill or substandard school on the Office of Degree Authorization website or elsewhere. The Attorney General's office also agreed to provide ODA personnel with a training session on defamation law. "

Re: Rainbow Warrior

Yea RW I see what you are saying.

Arguing against their kind is like running against a brick wall.

Take this Sam guy who keeps posting here. You can name all the sources you want and he will continue yapping like a parrot. Better just ignore him.

What pisses me off is that guys like that never even attended Warren National and they pretend to be such experts on it.

Like this whole board is for the purpose of having graduates and former students discuss experiences and you have people who know nothing about the University come here and spew their hatred for us. 

Incidently this Sam character still has not responded to my little challenge. I wonder what he is scared of.

So... you can't even name her (that's a hint)?

I do find it humorous that the "graduates" of this "university" cannot even name their own Chief Academic Officer. 

In real colleges, that position is very well known around the country and known by all the students.

Please cite any valid primary or secondary source that contradicts all published reports about this diploma mill and I'd be glad to review them.

Please cite your sources that contradict the facts about WNU as cited by the WNU Chief academic officer, the Senate of the United States, KWU themselves in the info given to the Senate, the local newspaper, and former students in their recently published lawsuit.

All I see is blathering with no sourcing.

Re: Take the sham....

And I will say this one more time for the attention-impaired :

1 This Chief Academic Officer was NEVER named. For all I know this was someone claiming to have such a title and pulled a fast one on the paper who quoted her.

and 

2 The whole investigation was a lie. No student at the college was permitted to give testimony.

Now about the second point given: 
c: is partially true. Instructors were hard to find sometimes. I would note that this is an inherent problem with all distance education.
d: So?
e: For 40% of classes given this is correct. But for the remaining 60, definately NO!
f: 100% lie! Prove it!
g: Tell me one college or University which does not have courses which consist of doing the same? At WNU and KWU before it, there were online notes and study guides in which students could learn at their own pace. But I actually attended more than one accredited Universities, which included Kansas State University, a very respected brick-and-mortar school which had classes in which you only needed to read the text to pass. In other classes, all you needed to do is show up for class to get a decent grade.

I think if you really knew what it took to earn a Warren or Kennedy-Western Degree you would not be saying these things.

"The paper was wrong in stating that the University was any kind of "Diploma Mill" and quite honestly this paper should be sued for libel."

But of course, it is not libel when its true, because there the exact same things were said by the Chief Academic Officer, the Senate Diploma Mill hearing, and most recently in the diploma mill lawsuit.

From the diploma mill lawsuit on WNU "exams":

49. The Defendants  did not inform the students that:
c. Despite requests from Plaintiffs to communicate with instructors for questions or one-on-one learning, no such instruction was provided.
d. All exams were multiple choice and several of the questions had no possible correct answer.
e. Students could take the same test a second time, after they learned the correct answers from the first test.
f. The exams were shams; there was no exam integrity.
g. Defendant WNU's program consisted of reading a book and taking an exam.

If you go to the Universitie's website at wnuedu.com/ you will find its active once again. Oddly it has links to other college websites.

My guess is that the website was either sold or its owners are renting it out as ad space.

Correction: The last sentence should read, "I will give you the exams" since this is four tests we are talking about here.

YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE!

I am please to announce my latest challenge to all you who are labeling my University as a "Diploma Mill."

You really believe that you can pass 40% of Kennedy-Western courses in 16 hours?

Well here is a chance to prove it! I will bring the books from four of my courses (I took 10 courses, not including a long final project so 4 out of 10 is 40%), along with study notes. I will then give you 16 hours to study this and then I will give you the exam. 

Any takers?

Re: Sad Story: This individual was a public official who was under suspicion for a number of activities. Her dismissal was really not a lot different from other people in high level public positions. In other words its all about politics.

The paper was wrong in stating that the University was any kind of "Diploma Mill" and quite honestly this paper should be sued for libel.

The diploma mill lawsuit hasn't moved much, but still interesting reading.

History:
16.  Defendant WNU moved its registration and licensing from California, to Idaho, to Hawaii, and finally in 2000, to Wyoming.
17. Defendant WNU was incorporated in California in 1984 and was licensed in California until 1991. When California revised its licensing laws, requiring educational institutions to become accredited, Defendant WNU declined to renew its California license.
18. Although Defendant WNU maintained administrative offices in Agoura Hills,California, at all times pertinent to the allegations of this Complaint, it was prohibited by the State of California from enrolling California residents as students.
19. In 1989, Defendant WNU incorporated in Hawaii, but was voluntarily dissolved in 1998 after failing to file its annual reports.
20. Defendant WNU also operated and was registered in Idaho. However, when Defendant WNU sought renewal of its registration in 1998, the Idaho State Board of Education
refused due to Defendant WNU's lack of accreditation.
21. Defendant WNU ceased operations in California and Idaho once those states required accreditation for licensees.
22. Eventually, Defendant WNU chose registration in Wyoming because the state had less stringent requirements for a license such as no accreditation requirement.

Another WN"u" alumni shamed out of work this week.

According to Hammond's resume, she gained a "Ph.D" from Kennedy Western "University" in 2009.

Hernando Today learned that Kennedy Western's name was changed to Warren National University in 2007 and got the reputation as a "diploma mill."

The university changed its base of operations several times, was suspected of illegal activities and was eventually shut down after failing to get accredited,

www2.hernandotoday.com/content/2011/mar/16/161849/hammond-leaves-clerks-office/

Correction:

On that paragraph begnning with "Second" I will change that to read:

Some states have barred the use of unaccredited degrees as credentials for employment IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR or professional liscenses. 

I wish the owners or the site would create an edit feature or something. :-/

Re Diploma Mill Boob:

Wrong on all counts. I will refute your arguments one by one:

It has been mentioned before that the "paper" you quoted is not a recognized newssource but an opinion sheet. The fact that the author (and as far as I can tell, the only writer, editor and publisher of a one man operation) could have just made that individual up. I did not see any mention of what her name is.

Second: There are no stated in the US where it is illegal to "use" a degree. Some states have barred the use of unaccredited degrees as credentials for employment or professional liscenses. In fact, with the exception of California you cannot even use any Distance Learning degree, accredited or otherwise to take the Bar Exam. But to tell someone outright that it is a crime to use any educational experience on a resume is a violation of Constitutional Rights. This is why the State of Oregon was successfully sued by Alumni of Kennedy-Western University.

Its true that the enemies of academic freedom are still trying to pass laws but these laws cannot be enforced.

This lawsuite you mentioned, which seems to be inert at this time as it is bogged down in the courts, has nothing to do with the legitimacy of Warren National or Kennedy-Western before it. Rather it has more to do with the business practices of the recruiters as well as the fact that the Universities administrators closed the doors of the University without refunding money or allowing former students to obtain transcripts.

I personally believe it is possible that if this is done correctly, Kennedy-Western can be revived and if we, the former students are careful not to make the mistakes that the former admins did, we can become accredited. Keep in mind several unaccredited colleges were able to get accreditation, including Pacific Coast University, Atlantic International and countless others.

Remember also that Doctor John Bear had at one time endorsed Kennedy-Western, though he later had a change of mind for what ever reasons we can only guess.

And this mention of a "bogus" degree? Well all I can tell you is that you really need to talk to people who studied and graduated from the University before making such a statement.

After wading through through the 3rd grade writing level of Alberto (then again, the WN"u" Chief Academic Officer told us that "even the exams for master's and doctoral degrees were multiple choice".), there are just a couple problems with your master plan.

*You have to rule out the 4 or 5 states that WN "u" has already been evicted from.

*Then rule out all the states where the "degree" is illegal to use.

*Then settle the pending diploma mill lawsuit brought by "students"

*WN"u" no longer exists.  If they failed accrediation for 20+ years, what exactly is the logic that they would make the grade now?

*And how would that suddenly make all the bogus "degrees" somehow worth anything?

"To which I would ask, where are you getting this quote from this Chief Academic Officer?"

Give you two guesses...  Times up.  From the Warren National University Chief Academic Officer! quoted verbatim from the local newspaper interview.  She said that

"a bright student, could take an exam without even purchasing a book", and "they could retake it if they did not pass - even take it again to get a better score.  The SAME EXAM

Re: Mr.Alberto Robles

Interesting. I think enough investors come forward then this project may work. I would really like to see some alumni with money to invest revive this school. I think that if this is done the right way we can see KWU become accredited. Whoever does this has to be serious about it. If KWU or WNU makes a serious effort to make its programs challanging and corrects mistakes made in the past we can see this succeed. This would be a win-win situation for all parties.

Now I am not sure about Florida. Do you think that would work?

I complete my PhD. Safety Emgineering with Warren National University Nov 2007. This University can open again and to get acreditation. If this University open in other state out of the Unite State or other state can to get acreditation and start operation again. Need only move to other play, example florida can to get avance acreditation certification, that help to operate again the university with acreditation If Warren national university can open operation in Puerto Rico, spain, europe and other county out side of California with acreditation.

Re: Diploma Mill Boob

To which I would ask, where are you getting this quote from this Chief Academic Officer?

You can quote your bogus sources all you want. Those of us were were actual students of the University know the actual truth. And I believe that you are grossly misinformed.

Thank you anonymous internet poster, but you are again contradicting info straight from WN"u".

The Warren National "university" Chief Academic Officer also said: 

"a bright student, could take an exam without even purchasing a book", and "they could retake it if they did not pass - even take it again to get a better score.  The SAME EXAM!"

Re: Question

Again, what is the name of this Chief Academic whatever? Does she have a name?

What source can you quote?

And the stuff about "Every test could be taken twice" is false. You could only take 40% of your course work by repeating exams.

And did she happen to mention that every student, including those on the undergraduate level is required to complete a Final Project? For those seeking Bachelor's degrees this requires a report submitted of a minimum 100 pages.

"This alleged Chief Academic Officer held a position in this University. She was paid a good salary working for an organization which, as she put it sold degrees that "weren't worth the paper they were printed on."

Not alleged, she actually held a position at Warren National, the Chief Academic Officer, how is that confusing?  She really exposed this dump for what it was.  Lots of good quotes from her.

"even the exams for master's and doctoral degrees were multiple choice".  

"every test could be taken twice, the neat thing about the second time was that the student had the answers."

No wonder they failed accreditation so miserably.

This is an unverified report. I hope to get accurate data as it arrives.

Update on the Lawsuit: Our transcripts are frozen until the lawsuit has been either passed through the grand jury process or thrown out of the courts.

Stay tuned:

And let me expand this inquiry.

This alleged Chief Academic Officer held a position in this University. She was paid a good salary working for an organization which, as she put it sold degrees that "weren't worth the paper they were printed on".

So after padding her pocket with the money of people she bilked, she then rubs salt into the wounds by giving the same students the shaft.

Though I do not believe this story to be true, I would say that if it were true and this woman was gaking money for doing something she believed was dishonest, than she is a Pharisee of the worst kind.

Well show us some of this basic research skill you have and cite the source of thie Chief Academic Officer. And please cite a RELIABLE source and not some local excuse for a newspaper which would not even mention the name of this person (if in fact such a person actually exists.)

I trust comments posted by actual former students of the University over someone who is biased and refuses to see the other side of this issue. Though it is becomming obsolite these days, some of us still value our freedoms and will guard ourselves against tyrany.

I know you probably never learned basic research, so sorry to keep pointing things out for you.

After the "university" was shut down by the state, the Warren National "university" Chief Academic Officer was asked about "masters" and "doctorate" degrees sold by Warren National and her response was "they weren't worth the paper they were printed on".

I'm sure anonymous internet poster knows better than the "university" Chief Academic Officer though.

Re: Guy who did not... blah blah blah

I would submit the fact that this investigation was bogus as no students were allowed to testify. And I believe that many here will deny that is true.

And can you quote a credible sourse stating that this Cheif Acedemic whatever was saying?

Re: Freedom:

At this time the words of Fredrich Niemoller come to mind.

"The poster previous to implied that 33 to 50% of degrees were given away"

L2Read - See below.  Actually 33 to 60% of degrees were given (not 33 to 50%), according to information supplied by Kennedy Western to the Diploma mill investigators.

I believe this was later confirmed by the KW"u" Chief Academic Officer.

Kennedy Western SAID THEMSELVES that "EVERY STUDENT in the Master's program" is awarded 33 to 60% of "credit for their experience".

I cannot talk about the Master's program but I do know that this was uncommon in the Bachelor's program. Some said it happened to them so I belive them but over all I think its a misstatement.

I think it would be more proper to state that 40 to 50% of CREDIT was given away. The poster previous to implied that 33 to 50% of degrees were given away. This is misleading.

Anyway that bogus hering was a farce and I don't believe any of it.

"And your statement about giving 33 to 50% of applicants degrees is either wrong or misleading"

Kennedy Western provided the data directly for their diploma mill hearing on their life experience giveaways, you should read it instead of making clueless comments.  This section is on Pages 39 and 40.  
 

"We were told that every student in the Master's program is awarded between 33 and 60 percent credit toward a degree for their experience. In fact, documents produced by Kennedy-Western indicated that nearly half of all
students in the Master's programs have received more than 55 percent credit for their experience"

Source:  Kennedy Western

Senate Hearing 08-553 BOGUS DEGREES AND UNMET EXPECTATIONS: ARE TAXPAYER DOLLARS SUBSIDIZING DIPLOMA MILLS?

Continued...
I believe that there should be a call to action to stop this tide in its tracks. All free people must be alerted or else this road to tyrany will continue.

Continued...

We can clearly see that the price of conformity is slavery. And why should the cause of academic freedom be any different. Lets consider the destruction of Warren National University by those who wish to impose their own will and force  conventionality. The fact that non-traditional institutions are actually being outlaw should be cause for concern. It stands to reason that Texas, a state notorious for its disregard for human rights and individual liberties is leading this charge.

Should we tolerate complacency?

Egypt, Tunesia, Libya and even Madison Wisconsin are all places rocked by a demand for something that too many take for granted. That would be Freedom.

In Madison Wisconsin, working men and woman, along with their supporters are taking to the streets, entering the capitol and demanded fair treatment under the law. They know what is at stake: the errosion of the rights of working people everywhere.

We must salute all who fight for freedom everywhere.

(Continued)

The infamous Texas Legal statute you cited cannot hold up in any court of law since other states have tried similar actions and failed.

Do you recall the time that Oregon passed a similar law and Kennedy-Western students successfully sued and forced the state to strike down that law? This may be why no one in the state of texas had ever been convicted under this law.

Occasionally some public official will get their wrist slapped for citing their education at KWU, but you never hear this happen in private industry. I guess governmental jobs tend to set their own standards, just as some private corporatins do. But this is not the same as criminal prosecution of a statute which quite honestly could not be enforced. I can say this much, if I were ever questioned about something like this my first call would be to the ACLU.

I wish you well.

So was Kennedy-Western University a diploma mill? A scam?

Well consider that:
1 It required students to read textbooks, work exercises and take exams for every course taken.
2 Required every student in every program to work on a final project and return a 100 page report (minimum) for the bachelor's programs. (Masters and Doctors were longer and more extensive.)

I would say that your assertion fails to hold water.

Why is it that Kennedy-Western, later known as Warren National was taken down? I think its simply because they were victims of their own success.

Think about it, a non-traditional college becomes more successful than the old style universities and the powers that be realize that they must be taken down.

THIS is why you had a phony investigation before the Senate in which hired liars recited bogus testimony.

As for KWU being any sort of "sister college" as Almeda or Rochville, there are no proven links. In other words your assertions are all wet.

I wish you well.

You cannot deem education illegal, regardless how much the accreditation Nazis try. It is not illegal to earn a degree from Warren National University, Kennedy-Western University or any other school.

I myself know perfectly well that the whole dog-and-pony show before the congress was a farce. The accreditiaion mafia rigged a bogus "investigation" in which no student was allowed to testify. 

And I only know one "newspaper" which continuously harps on this concept that Warren National, like Kennedy-Western were nefarious in any way, and this was all the work of one individual.

And your statement about giving 33 to 50% of applicants degrees is either wrong or misleading. I have heard that some in master's programs have as much as 40% of their credits waved. But I do not find it laughable. Some accredited schools such as Excelsior have similar policies. I also know that this is far less common in the Bachelors program.

You can continue to believe what what you want. I know the truth and will continue to tell it.

LOL, thanks for the link to a bunch of anonymous internet posters.

I'll put more stock in the Senate Investigation, all the states that have deemed it illegal, the laods of expose articles from individual newspapers around the country, and their laughable, self-reported policies of granting 33-50% of "masters" "degrees" to anyone that applied.

Only in the land of anonymous posters will you find any support for this diploma mill.

It was never recognized or accredited, ran from state to state as it was ejected, was thrashed by the Senate during a Diploma Mill Hearing, fleeced the naive until it was shut down, and now the remaining victims filed a class action suit.

You'll never be able to point to any evidence that this was anything but a scam.  I feel truly sorry for those who were duped.

Sorry Al,

I meant to say that it was a pretty good school while it functions and was reasonably priced compared to other DL programs.

Its unfortuate that politics caused the destruction of this school. It truely was the students who suffered and continue to suffer.

And while it is not the fault of the administrators that the school was destroyed, it seems sad that they cannot provide or make arrangements for former students to get transcripts and diplomas. I try to defend the school becasue it really is the students who were the school and its a bad reflection on us when the school administration is not living up to their obligations. Some of us have been trying hard to tell the truth about WNU and KWU, and defend the school but its hard to do so when the former owners are ignoring us.

I think its important to seperate the School, which is to say the students and faculty, many of whom were first rate professors from some very excellent traditional Univeristies, such as Michigan, Sanford, MIT etc. from the owners and administrators.

Re: Al
Thanks for making my point. While it was fuctioning it was a pretty good school and reasonably


Re: Wishes to Sue.
While I will say that it is not the fault of the students that the University was forcefully closed, the failure of the former adminstrators is not good as far as living up to their obligations towards former students. Especially in regards to transcripts.

You might contact Rothgerber Johnson & Lyons (RJ&L). The email I have is mkhan@rothgerber.com.

I am out THOUSANDS because they closed their doors.I wish I could get any of the money back. No degree. Nothing to transfer and I still have to pay?

Can I still join the class action?

My experience with Warren National University was extraudinary and excellent. I lerd to much. The university was in same o more high level educational that university of phoenix and other. My opinion no  more bad political, and open the university again.
thank
God bless you

Re: jcesun

You mean getting an Avatar?
On the right side of the screen is the feedback tab. You might try asking that question there.

Re Yohan
I am skeptical of you. Did you ever attend Warren National Uniiversity or Kennedy-Western?

"I do not believe you read my question correctly. I am talking about EARNED credit. If you got 50% of your degree credited (and I congratulate you because I got nothing for my bachelors)"

Credit is credit, whether taken through coursework or magically made to disappear by KW "u".  I'm skeptical of anyone who didn't get the free credits and was foolish enough to pay full price for a diploma mill "degree".

Did you get the extended warranty too?  LOL

"I do not believe you read my question correctly. I am talking about EARNED credit." 

I earned 40% of my masters by simply applying to Warren national and knocked off 2 grad classes in a matter of weeks before they were shut down

"Kennedy Western University is a diploma mill - what don't you understand?"

Check out the latest "graduate" exposed who now is denying that she actually uses her Kennedy Western "degree".

see the diploma mill news article and the local newspaper that exposed them.  What a shame

Re: "Check out Diploma Mill News for all the Kennedy Western "University" LOL, "graduates" who have been recently called onto the carpet for their frauds."

This is a biased source which posts a lot of crap which is irrelevent to this discussion. Often public sector jobs will have specific standards to which they will finance the education of candidates. Nobody has ever been mentioned in that POS website for listing a WNU or KWU degree.

So take your "frauds" and somewhere else.

Re: "KW"u" granted me 50% of a DOCTORATE based on my prior work experience...  I still have the degree plan."

I do not believe you read my question correctly. I am talking about EARNED credit. If you got 50% of your degree credited (and I congratulate you because I got nothing for my bachelors) than it still does not mean that you did not have to work for the remainder of what was required.

I would add that this testimony at the GAO witch hunt was deliberately misleading since the individual who gave her "testimony" did not mention what you did. She tried to make it sound as if you can sign up for this program and get your degree in a matter of hours. And that is, rather frankly a lie.

"So aside from that GAO witch hunt, can anyone tell me (understand give me FIRST HAND EVIDENCE) of THEY THEMSELF having earned 40% of their credit in 16 hours?"

KW"u" granted me 50% of a DOCTORATE based on my prior work experience...  I still have the degree plan.

Check out Diploma Mill News for all the Kennedy Western "University" LOL, "graduates" who have been recently called onto the carpet for their frauds.

Re: Another KWU fraudster under fire

Did you actually read the article in which you posted a link to? If you did you will know that the subject of the story was not disciplined in any way as no crime was committed. Its just a few journalist grasping at straws, looking for something where nothing exists.. The truth is that, as Indiana is part of the United States, the United States Constitution remains in effect. This means that you cannot persecute individuals based on educational experiences.

Re: 2Easy

I will ask AGAIN: How many students (aside from the government stool pigeon) were allowed to give THEIR side of the story at that GAO "investigation?"

Answer: zero!

heraldbulletin.com/education/x1305238720/ACS-Administrator-has-doctorate-degree

LOL, These timebombs keep going off...

October 2010.

BOOM!

"The witness who testified at the hearing only took two classes and, from the sound of it they were fairly easy."

That was the whole point of the investigation of the diploma mills, that there was no academic rigor involved.

Remember, this was a graduate level course, and the KW"U" student taking the course had no prior background. From the sworn testimony:

*"As for my first-hand experience with Kennedy-Western courses and passing the tests, I found that basic familiarity with the textbook was all that I needed. I was able to find answers without having read a single chapter of the text.*

While it is decent of you to cite that the students here did no wrong, I would say that to say that anyone's degree is worthless is in the eye of the beholder.

There are many who benefited from thier education at WNU and KWU.

The only thing that upsets me is that the former owners of the University refuse to provide graduates with Transcripts and duplicate diplomas. This does nothing to support their cause by turning their backs on we, the alumni they are biting the hands that fed them.

In all the rehashing of old worn out arguments it's important to remember that it was only that "university" who unjustly enriched themselves through their deceipt in inflating the value of their "service" and worthless "degree" - 

The students (many of whom really did work at hard at their studies and accomplished some real learning) did no wrong and should not be impuned even when they mistakenly defend that outfit.

that it is correct that students get 40% of credit off (though I doubt its that much, at the undergraduate level this is far less common as many students on this board will tell us), than it really is misleading to say that students can get that much credit in less than 16 hours.

The witness who testified at the hearing only took two classes and, from the sound of it they were fairly easy. My own experience at one brick and mortar school (Kansas State University) was that there were certain classes where you got A's just for showing up. No there were not many. I happened to be in the Architecture and Design program (or Environmental Design as it was called) and it was a brutally hard program. But I do remember one or two such classes like that.

It seems to me that this witness actually looked for extremely easy courses to build her case with. At any rate, I am convinced that if I could take this same witness and as her to complete certain classes in which I would select than she would not have it so easy.

I would add that even the editor of the Cheyenne Herald, an individual who is very much hostile towards this University is willing to admit that students did work hard pursuing their education at WNU and KWU before it.

I wanted to add that I was very saddened to find Dick Durban, a man I respected a greate deal and who has been a friend to working people was involved it that farce.

Come on Dick! You are better than that!


Re: shhhhhhhhhhhhh

Some are, but Senators Collins and Lieberman still are there. This is even after Lieberman's own party voted him out. That guy is like some kind of monster that you cannot kill.

Come to think of it he even looks like something un-dead!

Notice that all predators in the witch hunt are now out of office.

Correction: I intended to say that all witnesses in this "hearing" were hostile. I believe the entire exercise was a charade by self serving politicians. 

Was there ONE witness present from Kennedy-Western among the faculty, administration or student body?

ONE?

I reject this entire report as being biased and irrelevent.

And I will ask ONE MORE TIME...

Does anyone have a FIRST HAND ACCOUNT about earning 40% of their credit in 16 hours. And I mean EARNING and none of this garbage about getting life experience credit. I am talking about getting 40% of your graduation requirements THROUGH EXAMINATION.

Re Diploma Mill Scam

I see that we at least have a source. This is a rather long report to digest and contain mostly lies and irrelevent garbage. At least when it comes to Kennedy-Western. No where in the report did I hear of any witness invited to 

So aside from that GAO witch hunt, can anyone tell me (understand give me FIRST HAND EVIDENCE) of THEY THEMSELF having earned 40% of their credit in 16 hours? And to make this fair lets exclude this nonsense about waving credit for life experience. Some say that got this but I know others who did not.

Anyone????

No, I did not think so.

"And yes, one more time I have to ask, is there anyone beside this witness who can tell me that they earned 40% of their credit in 16 hours? Anyone?"

Yes, KW"u" provided the info.  Most were able to "earn" more than 40% in zero hours.

"We were told that EVERY student in the Master’s program is awarded between 33 and 60 percent credit toward a degree for their experience. In fact, documents produced by Kennedy-Western indicated that nearly half of all students in the Master’s program have received more than 55 percent credit for their experience”.

Bogus Degrees and Unmet Expectations: Are Taxpayer Dollars Subsidizing Diploma Mills? Hearings before the Committee on Governmental Affairs, United States Senate, One Hundred Eighth Congress, Second Session (May 11 and 12, 2004) S. Hrg. 108-553

eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/search/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=ED496044&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=ED496044

Re: Billy Rae

I agree with most of what you say except that I do not see any evidence of President Obama trying to shut down for profit colleges. I think there is a bi-partisan effort by some members of congress and other miscreants to do this.

The worst abuses seem to be at the state level, IMHO.

OK, “they couldn't care less”, but I am correct in what I am saying and I misspelled badminton, I am not a badminton fan so I admit to the error. We all make spelling mistakes and grammatical errors to a certain point, it's only human to make some mistakes with the things we do, but not constantly, or should I say consistently. Then again you can travel to any part of this country and the English language is interpreted in many different ways. But it still doesn't excuse the inability of a large portion of our college grads from writing a structured sentence so an average person can understand what is being said.

It’s time to keep the federal government out of our states business and let the states control their own educational institutions.  President BOB is trying to close all of the “for profit” colleges and universities, but never says a thing about shutting down all of the charter high schools operating all over the country which are for profit businesses. Then again most of them are located in ghetto communities and probably doing better than the state funded schools.

The feds can’t control our boarders yet they want to tell us how to do business in our states and how to educate our selves. Amazing

Wake up America and vote Tuesday to free your states and communities from over zealous federal mandates and controls.

I already voted. We have early elections where I live.

I also took my daughter to vote for the first time in her life.

As I told her, if you don't vote than you have no right to complain.

Re: Diploma mill news


I wanted to revise my first statement here. There is not edit feature here so I will repost it instead.

I thought we would not have to go back in the same circular argument. But I would call everyone's attention to one statement made by this poster:

"Considering that KWU admitted during the Senate investigation of them that they gave most students that much for just applying, it seems reasonable."

Can you tell me when ANY representative of the University was allowed to provide testimony during that hearing? If so than please provide a weblink. Preferably one that actually works.


And yes, one more time I have to ask, is there anyone beside this witness who can tell me that they earned 40% of their credit in 16 hours? Anyone?

I did not think so.

Re: Diploma mill news

I thought we would not have to go back in the same circular argument. But I would call everyone's attention to one statement made by this poster:

"Considering that KWU admitted during the Senate investigation of them that they gave most students that much for just applying, it seems reasonable."

And yes, one more time I have to ask, is there anyone beside this witness who can tell me that they earned 40% of their credit in 16 hours? Anyone?

I did not think so.

Re: PT Barnum

You may not realize this but Warren National, like Kennedy- Western before it actually was licensed by the state of Wyoming and operated legally. You may argue that the standards of this state were not as stringent as other states or countries. But you cannot fault the students for applying to, and studying at a legally operating University. I would even go so far as to say the only thing that was illegitimate about this school was the wrongful attacks on it by nefarious forces, such as the biased investigation by self serving politicians.

Please give me evidence, citing a weblink THAT IS ACTUALLY WORKING as to where any representative of Kennedy-Western was allowed to provide testimony.

Re: Hi PT & All

Yes to all of that.

Re: Billie Rae

Again some excellent points. No arguent at all. This drive towards conformity is what is killing independent thought and creativity. And if anyone thinks that the destruction of Warren National and the persecution of its students is where it ends than think again.

Re: Hey Billie

You are right about the Nazi thing. And maybe I am guilty about this too. But I do recall that a certain newspaper editor and publisher was using the same word to describe defenders of WNU and KWU. I am reminded of an old proverb about people living in glass houses....

I agree with most of what you say.  However, I want to mention a couple of observations:

1.  I'm very aware of the problems with the current issue about accreditation but referring to them as "Nazies" goes way over the top.

2.  You bemoan the fact that so few students (and teachers!) have a poor command of the English language.  I agree and I think there are those who think they're really good at English but in reality their grammatical and spelling skills are mediocre at best.

Look at your own writing.

The game is "badminton" not "bad mitten".  I thought everyone should know that.  Your error is quite hilarious actually.

Also, you said: " ... professors could care less ... ".  That doesn't make sense.  You should say: "They couldn't care less."

I taught in several community colleges over the years and have made the same observations about poor English skills and I can tell you the problem originates from more than just poor colleges - It goes further back and is deeper than that.  Yes, America needs to wake up and that means everyone including you and me.

Accreditation does not define the educational standards that each school must have. With four or five different accreditation bodies you know right now they are all have different standards for their regions; they are all private for profit businesses. It does not give a minimum teacher to student ratio; it does not prevent a professor from curving grades, it has no class standards, it does not mandate how or to what standards a subject is to be taught. It does not prevent a school from giving college credit for bad mitten, basket weaving or being of a certain gender. Nearly all schools will give some type of work experience credit towards your degree. Columbus State Community College will give any police office or firefighter who has five years work experience and graduated from a police or fire academy one year credit towards an associate degree in the police or fire science program. A matter of fact I can attend six different schools and get a degree from Harvard as long as I complete at least 25% of my studies from that institution providing that my credits from the other schools will transfer in. This goes back to minimum acceptable educational standards “between” schools.

What killed WNU/KWU is their refusal to conform or bow to the accreditation Nazies. Had they followed through there would have been no further problems or discussions.

Wake up America.

It's getting difficult to tell who is who in here any more. But let me just say this to the person who was criticizing the other writer about his command of English and his writing abilities. You need to go around so some if not a number of colleges and universities and check on the capabilities of students and their writing abilities. They are poor at best. I deal with supposed college educated young people all of the time and I find it really an atrocity how bad some of these supposed college graduates write, a complete lack of the ability to effectively communicate.

I have had the opportunity to teach or give presentations at several of our higher educational institutions and I would not teach in a college or high school for all of the money in the world. For one there is no discipline in the class room, professors could care less if you attend class or not as long as you show for the final or quizzes. Students sleeping, it just amazes me. The whole problem with our educational system is too much liberalism or political correctness mentality. 

College is not a right or a privilege, it is an opportunity to better ones self or to qualify in a chosen discipline or profession. I agree the standards should be high, that some one should over see those standards and there should be uniformity in the standards, but it is not up to the federal government to dictate to the fifty states how to do business. When you have Congressmen and Senators who are convicted felons, tax evaders, failed businessmen/women who can’t balance a check book, scofflaws and cheaters running the country you do not need these people dictating how to run your educational institutions. Just look at our national trillion dollar debt that is growing by the second.

There have been thousands of students who have been through Kennedy / Warren and no doubt there were those who studied hard and do deserve acknowledge of that.  As well no doubt there were some who just wanted a shortcut to a real degree and no doubt there were some who were naive and some who were dishonest. 

One's "point of view" has no bearing on that and since the number of people who got involved in that outfit over the years is so large there's no way you can legitimately lump them all into one category.

We don't want to be judgemental and say that every student was dishonest and neither do we want to be naive and say there were none who wanted to have a degree without truly earning it.

Revealing hidden motives is God's business - not ours.

Although our legal system is quite imperfect I do believe that the truth will come out and expose the wrong actions of the owners who did do harm to their former customers.

Lying always was, and still is wrong. Exodus 20 doesn't contain the "10 suggestions".

And ... YES, be sure to vote on November 2!  This nation is at a crossroads with much of our freedom at stake.

Reminder to VOTE 0n 11-2

"1. For the most part, students did no wrong. Many, if not most, of them studied hard and learned a lot through their efforts. If there were those who just wanted to buy a degree without proper study then that's different."

Depends on your point of view.  Were KWU students too naive to see through the diploma mill scam or too dishonest to admit their falsification to themselves and potential employers?

"I was particularly by this witness who claimed to have earned 40% of her credits in 16 hour"

Well she only earned 40% of a Masters degree in 16 hours, not the whole thing, in her sworn testimony.  

Considering that KWU admitted during the Senate investigation of them that they gave most students that much for just applying, it seems reasonable.

The Senate Investigation of Kennedy Western says that:

“We were told by KWU that EVERY student in the Master’s program is awarded between 33 and 60 percent credit toward a degree for their experience. In fact, documents produced by Kennedy-Western indicated that nearly half of all students in the Master’s program have received more than 55 percent credit for their experience”.

You are on a spiritual path. Well so am I. I am approaching you with my hands empty and open.

I am also getting very impatient with the administrators of the University. They have now made it impossible for anyone to get transcripts. Well this is wrong and I can no longer defend these ingrates, especially when they are screwing their most loyal students, the ones who come to boards like this and defend them time after time.

We will probibly never agree on whether or not WNU or KWU, as it was orignally called was a legitamate school. 

I think it was and I do believe that my experience was a good one. Some may disagree. I can respect that.

I guess the only thing that I dislike is to hear people, and I do not mean you, but other misinformed sources come here and say that you can get a degree just by writing a check. I was particularly by this witness who claimed to have earned 40% of her credits in 16 hour.

I was enrolled in a program at this school and I would gladly swear an oath that I do not know any honest way of doing this. Certainly not taking any classes that I took.

I wish you well.

Thank you replying rationally rather than emotionally.  Issues are resolved so much better when we keep a calm head.

What fight are you continuing?  If it's a fight defending students who were wronged then I say "Go get'em tiger" - I'm with you!

My fight is against the principals of that outfit who lied to their customers and believe me, they did.  Plaintiffs in the ongoing law suit have proof of that in writing.

I will resist the impulse to lower myself by not answering your insulting reply in like manner.

I am a graduate of a respected legitimate institution and don't appreciate false accusations such as: " ... being an abusive control freak ... " etc etc but, as I said, let's leave that trash behind, ok?  It is certainly not helpful.

I do NOT defend the accreditation cartels.  That is another matter entirely.  My fight is against those who have treated people dishonestly - the owners of the now defunct Wn"u".

I have been falsely accused of harming other students by cautioning them against using their "degree" from Wn"u" as legitimate credentials.  I understand their feelings but will not tolerate false accusations against me just because I am exposing the dishonesty of the outfit from which they obtained their "degree".  Yes, I know even placing the word "degree" in quotations can be offensive but that's just too bad.  The term "degree" has been used wrongfully all too often and that must be stopped.

One last point:  Please do not mention the name of my precious Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, in such a crude and foul context.  He is the One Who said: " ... I AM the Truth, the Way, and the Life ... ".  He has redeemed me from my sin and provided total forgiveness for me - something so great I could never even hope to begin to repay.

If I was being too harsh than sorry. I tend to fight hard for what I believe in and sometimes go too far.

But lets discuss these "False accusations" shall we?

I believe that Warren National University was unfairly targeted by the accreditation cartel, who launched a high level campaign of harassment against this institution and its graduates. This is well documented and you need only to read through the many posts right here on this board to know about it.

Maybe what you say is true. I also support all former students who were wronged by this party. And perhaps legal action agaisnt the principals is indeed justified.

I can tell you, I lost all faith in the former administration when the ceased providing transcripts for all former students. This is a breach of contract against the very people who gave them their own money. It also pisses me off that people like myself who defended them for many years cannot even communicate with these people. I believe they should be sued.

But you said yourself that you are not against the students and I agree:
And I believe that what whe studied and learned was indeed legitimate.

Warren National, and Kennedy-Western before it lives in the minds of all of us. We did, in good faith invest our own money and spent months working hard towards our degrees. Where is the justice for us? To say that what we did was of no value is a slap in our faces!

There are people out there, people with a great degree of power and with friends in high places who continue this persecution of WNU and KWU graduates. It is not enough that they shut down this school but now they are going after us! This is why they pass these laws telling us that we cannot "use" our degrees to secure employment, banning mention in resumes or applications.

Now, I do not know how this plays in other countries but in the United States people are free to put what they want on their resumes. And that is how it should be.

This is not to say that you can apply as a surgeon if you are not an MD. But I do think any and all educational experiences should be allowed.

This is why I continue the fight.

Wow.  Truly fascinating are the false accusations against anyone who exposes the sham that Wn"u" was.

The above is another example of drivel not deserving of a reply.  Have a nice day.

1 No argument.

2 I never said you were a lefty anything. Or a righty for that matter. Maybe you are responding to someone else on this board. I believe that there are several of us who are defending academic freedom.

But this rubbish about telling people what constitutes a "real" college or university is not really Anarchy but just freedom. I say let the graduates put what they want on their own resume and let employers decide what is acceptable. And lets keep big brother out of the picture.

BTW, I am not an anarchist but I know some who are. And they do make a compelling argument. 

Some would argue that Jesus Christ was an anarchist (remember "my kingdom is not of this world") but thats another story.

3 What the hell are you talking about? If I were to grade you on you ability to construct an argument I would give you an F.

4 Clearly substandard? In whose eye? YOURS? Spare me this garbage. Go to some other board populated by small minded people like yourself. Adults are talking, why don't you be quiet and play in the corner?

5 Again you are contradicting yourself. You do not want to punish yet you belittle the acheivement that others. What the hell did you ever do in you life other that go to message boards and post lies?

Finally I do understand you completely. I understand that you are an abusive control freak who refused to admit it when someone knows more than about something than you do. I doubt you ever graduated from any College or University because you lack the maturity it requires to get any degree.

Admit it, thats why you post this crap isnt it?

The owners of wn"u" ripped off people by, amongst other things, greatly misrepresenting the value of their programs and "degree".

Quit attributing words to me that I did not write!  Note:

1.  For the most part, students did no wrong.  Many, if not most, of them studied hard and learned a lot through their efforts.  If there were those who just wanted to buy a degree without proper study then that's different. 

2.   I am NOT a lefty elitist.  I hate excessive government control.  I choose free will too but I wouldn't want all laws eliminated just for my unlimited, unbridled freedom.  That would be anarchy and that would be lunacy.

3.   There MUST be educational standards.  Having a good command of the English language must be essential.  For example, your spelling and grammar is so horrible that you should not be awarded any degree from any English institution since your writing would cause shame both to yourself and any institution that would grant you a "degree".

4.  If you think the government is going to go after every other educational institution then you are under great delusion.  Only outfits that are clearly substandard (such as wn"u") need to fear.

5.  I have NO intention of seeing any former student punished.  Sure, some will be unhappy that the place where they purchased (or "earned" as some may say) their degree from was proven to be substandard (at the very least) but they are just going to have to admit that if they expected to earn a degree from a high quality reputable educational institution they erred in judgement.

I hope that I am finally understood but I do realize that "there are none so blind as those who deliberately choose to not see".

Because a school does not do things in the traditional mold that others do, you say that they ripped off people?

I sould say that it is YOU that needs to be awoken.

I think its shameful that the University will not provide trascripts to its former students but I think it may be due to the fact that the State of Wyoming forced them to close due to political pressure.

But if you think that its a good thing to punish former students because they attended a school which did things differently than I would ask why?

And why is it that you have states trying to tell students what they can or cannot put on thier resumes? What business is it of theirs?

This is an assult on freedom! And those who assult our freedoms will not start here? You really think this is the end? NO NO NO...

They are now going after University of Phoenix, DeVry and so on and so forth. Where will this end? I would guess when we all have to answer towards the heavy hand of the elitists who will dictate to US what contstitutes an education.

You trust the nanny state to change your diapers and tell you how to live. 

But as the 80's band Rush states, "If you chose not to decide you still have made a choice."

I will chose free will!

So, because someone goes after an outfit that ripped off thousands of people they are assaulting freedom?

It would be WRONG to remain silent. YOU need to wake up!

So you are against academic freedom, or freedom in general?

I too am glad that conformity has ruled and the non-conformist has been swept into the dust bin of history (to paraphrase Trotsky.) Perhaps we can now move on to the next phase of our control of society. We will start with the Colleges and Universities. Next we will launch our new culture war against the Churches. Then trade unions and political parties. Soon the media will be under our command. I can see it now... the burning of books in the streets! Death to the non-conformists! 

Conformity is a beautiful thing, is it not?

I'm glad that diploma mills like Warren National were forced out of business for their scams.  

If the quality control standards are now going to become more stringent than the current, rather low standard to become regionally accredited, the real universities will have to adapt and improve their standards to meet a higher bar.

For years we tried to warn you, the assult on Kennedy-Western University and then Warren National University would be just the beginning. The control freaks of the Accreditation Mafia are now going further and targetting any and all for profit Universities. University of Phoenix, DeVry, ITT Technical Institute and so on are now being targeted!

See redstate.com/brian_d/2010/09/25/for-profit-education-under-assault/

Somehow the words of Martin Niemoller come to mind here:

First they came for the S o c i a l i s t s, and I did not speak out -- 
Because I was not a S o c i a l i s t. 
 

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out -- 
Because I was not a Trade Unionist. 

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -- 
Because I was not a Jew. 

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me

Since you never attended WNU maybe you should find another venue to post you worthless opinions.

The down side of freedom - outfits like wn"u" soaked thousands of people who bought a worthless "degree" but here's something that could even be worse:

The Obama government taking control of private education.

Shudder .... !

LOL, LOL, LOL  ?? You kill me idiot. Diploma mill opens, hops around to various states to avoid regulation, is exposed during their Diploma Mill investigation by the Senate, changes it name, and then is forced to shut down for failure to meet any quality standards. Lieberman isn’t any thing more than a traitor to his own political party and you think he was looking out for the good of America; you are as blind as a cave fish my friend.

You better read today’s MSN head lines, colleges and universities offering courses in dancing at the Laundromat, ufology, furniture 101, intro to reality TV, got to love it our Accredited colleges and universities taking parents hard earned money for such junk trivial classes, and they are saying WNU was a farce, give me a break.

When government controls the people and all of the businesses with in it, it becomes a puppet of the government. We see what government control of the economy is currently doing. Our educational institutions are heading in the same direction, failure!

Wake up America before you are saluting the red and yellow instead of the red, white and blue.

Yea, better off suing the State of Wyoming since they are responsible for all this BS in the first place.

I might also name Joe Lieberman and Suzy Floozy Collin's as co defendents.

"The only remotely interesting thing left is whether the jilted "students" win their diploma mill lawsuit."

Good luck getting any money out of a mailbox drop.  If you were too naive to see this scam a mile away, nobody has any sympathy for you.