Columbia Southern University

janet December 5, 2006 at 3:15 a.m.

good on line program , not easy, requires alot of work , instructional support excellent. Grads from this program can compete with the best of RA schools.

Joe A January 22, 2007 at 9:37 p.m.

I'm currently attending CSU, and it has been a lot of work. However the staff is excellent and working students have the flexibility they need. I work full-time, owned a business (which I recently sold), have two children and I managed to stay married...LOL

I'm finishing my 12th class and I plan on graduating by the spring of 2007. Right now it looks like I'll be finished before that!

I would highly recommended this school. They are accredited, have a good reputation and offer a quality education. A+++

Tim March 23, 2007 at 5:02 a.m.

I've completed 11 of the 12 required courses for an MBA in Healthcare Management. The courses have been quite challenging, and I have learned a lot!! The staff is top-notch at CSU, they have helped me with every problem that I have encountered, and I usually get grades on writing assignments within 24 hours. I would recommend this school to anyone thinking of completing an online degree. BTW.. I am active duty in the US military, and I have a family, so my time is limited. This program is absolutely perfect for working adults. Also, the military will only pay tuition assistance to schools accredited by a recognized agency, and the DETC is recognized by the US Dept of Education. If the military is willing to pay for it, then it has proven itself to be legitimate!!

Bob, Ed Counselor June 11, 2007 at 3:25 p.m.

Columbia Southern University is only Nationally Accredited via the Distance Training and Education Council. Having only national accreditation can lead to some serious issues with credit transferability and degree acceptance from Regionally Accredited Institutions and HR offices.

Know the difference in accreditation and what it means to your future endeavors!

I would never attend nor recommend a school which is not Regionally Accredited due the the many issues it may cause when one tries to tranfer or move to a higher levle degree program at Regionally Accredited schools. Employers know the difference too!

Tim June 21, 2007 at 11 p.m.

Bob, you cannot spell correctly. Have you attended college?

Chris. P. June 24, 2007 at 5:31 p.m.

I'm an international student (Canada), and I haven't received a clear answer from anyone yet, on what is the difference between Regioanlly Acc. and Nationally Acc. I am looking at the Msc in Justice Admin, either here at CSU or through Norwich University. Any thoughts? the price difference is about $15,000., which is quite a lot?
Thanks in advance.

Jamie June 26, 2007 at 8:51 p.m.

Bob's opinion is just that, his own personal view. There are no real issues pertaining to graduates from CSU trying to obtain employment after graduating.

CSU's programs are accredited through the Distance Education & Training Council (DETC), which is recognized by the U.S. Department of Education and CHEA. I agree with Mr. Dometri, whereas CSU has emerged into one of the top nationally accredited schools. I am hopeful they'll pursue regional accreditation in the future, but it really won't add any more quality to the already great academic programs that CSU offers.

As for transferability of credits, Bob's recommendations are naive and partly false. CSU has formed academic partnerships with University of North Alabama, University of West Alabama, University of West Florida and there are many more. In addition, the Higher Education Transfer Alliance (HETA) was formed through CHEA to assist students wanting to transfer to other schools. So far, the list has grown to well over 300 institutions of higher learning, including regionally and nationally accredited schools.

From the DETC website:

"The sine qua non of an institution’s quality is not if its credits transfer: this is a false premise. The fact that regionally accredited colleges refuse to accept credits from another school because it is not regionally accredited flies directly in the face of national policies advocated by American Council on Education (ACE), the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers (AACRAO), Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA), et al. The real issue here has less to do with the academic quality of the sending institution, and more to do with anti-competitive business practices of the receiving institution. Competition is heating up in higher education, and there are forces at work to control the inroads being made by “upstart” operators. Congress, the Department of Education, and the Department of Justice have been looking into this anti-competitive practice by higher education, and we suspect we will see significant activity in the coming months on this matter."

Michelle July 2, 2007 at 2:11 p.m.

I am attending CSU for a BS in Environmental Management. The courses do require self-discipline and motivation. I have found the Professors to be extremely helpful and encouraging. The Student Center staff are also very supportive. I thoroughly enjoy the on-line classes better than the traditional class environment. I can study and progress at my pace without having to leave my home. As a single working parent CSU has made my dream of obtaining a degree a very achievable goal.

Charles July 11, 2007 at 4:10 a.m.

I am a graduate of CSU's Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice Administration Program and I am currently enrolled in the Master of Criminal Justice Administration Program. I can tell you that my experience is that CSU has opened many doors for me in the Law Enforcement Community that were previously closed. I have been promoted twice since completing my degree in 2005 and I am currently a finalist for a Deputy Chief’s position at another agency. The Ohio Association of Chiefs of Police which acts as a consultant with the majority of chief hiring’s in the state recommends that all Nationally Accredited Degrees are accepted by the employer so CSU fits the bill in Ohio. CSU has excellent programs and if it fits your educational needs with national accreditation then go for it. I highly recommend CSU.

Accreditation July 16, 2007 at 1:59 p.m.

It looks like people have had good experiences with CSU. Glad to hear it.

I do caution that it is only nationally accredited, a real, but lower level accreditation that may cause credit transfer problems down the road.

It will not allow you to become professionally licensed in alot of fields that our business hires for.

Lamont July 16, 2007 at 9:40 p.m.

I have been a student of CSU for the past several months, and I have completed two courses. I must admit that I was skeptical at first, but I am pleasantly surprised by how much I am learning. The course structures are excellent, and the work is very challenging. If you are a critical thinker and are armed with a knack for reading and writing, then you ought to do just fine in the MBA / Project Management program. I had completed some doctoral work at the University of Phoenix, some of which transferred into my program. I also completed some graduate work at the University of Maryland and many of those courses transferred into my program as well. I learn just as much at CSU as the other schools, except I have no ‘out of pocket’ costs. My employer covers the low tuition costs at CSU 100%. I have completed a master’s degree already from a regionally accredited college (Webster University). Since I already work professionally, I am more concerned with what I am able to learn over the brand name of the degree.

To Jamie: July 18, 2007 at 6:09 p.m.

Yes, you have valid points, but quoting DETC about the value of DETC accreditation is not very objective or comforting.

Like another poster said; DETC accreditation is valid but inferior to regional accreditation and will cause you problems down the line.

Jimmie July 24, 2007 at 1:03 p.m.

CSU is an outstanding college that has provided me with a lot of support since day one of me applying for acceptance to their BSBA program. I recently started my first class with the university and everyone I have dealt with has been very helpful and pointing me in the right direction.
Couple of things I like the most about their program, I was able to get an unofficial evaluation done to see how many classes I was short for my degree within three days, and I love the fact that I am able to schedule my class work around my job and still have a family life. I am an Army Soldier and we are always on the go, so it is nice to have a program that will allow you to take a pause if needed for such things as deployments, emergency leave and TDY/Field training exercises.
I have already been recommending their programs to not only my friends, but my family members as well.
Thank you for allowing me to speak about your programs and good luck to any future students.

So... July 25, 2007 at 1:41 p.m.

Again, I don't think DETC is bad, but:

*70% of the time your credits will transfer
*Or will have to be considered on a case by case
*Won't qualify you for professional licensing in most states.

That's alot of "maybe", "sort of", for the effort you put into it.

Regional accreditation doesn't have those problems.

Jim July 27, 2007 at 7:18 p.m.

I am currently debating on enrolling in this school for the BS in Criminal Justice. I have some college behind me. My question is does Federal Law Enforcement agencies recognize this degree?

Deena July 30, 2007 at 11:41 p.m.

I had a wonderful and rewarding student career at CSU. I earned my BS in 2005 and my MBA in 2007. There have been no transfer issues with me. In Washington State, the county, state and federal government divisions ALL accept NA degrees. I personally received a job promotion with a $20,000 increase in yearly salary. Those who ONLY believe in RA degrees are really short changing themselves and peering through very narrow tunnel in life. Wake up people! Do you think technology was invented only to post emails and to watch YouTube?? Have you seen the accreditation nightmare of AIU who is currently on and has been on probation for the past year? Interestingly enough my employer refuses to accept any degrees from U of Phoenix and they are....surprisingly....RA accredited. Accreditation is accreditation...I just happened to fork out less tuition $$ for my education.

Ben August 6, 2007 at 4:43 p.m.

I'm seriously thinking of getting ready to start at CSU. I have credits from my community college that they accepted. I do have to admit I feel a little hesitant due to the whole accreditation deal.

Does anybody have a list of regionally accredited colleges that will accept credit from a nationally accredited college. I plan on getting a psych degree, and if I wanted to puruse a masters I'd like to know what RA college would accept my credit.

Ben August 8, 2007 at 12:23 a.m.

Thanks Jamie,

Some of the schools on the list do say they accept credit from RA schools. Capella was one of them. Capella didn't mention NA credit transfer on their website.

Jamie August 8, 2007 at 3:53 a.m.

Hi Ben,

In addition, CSU posts the following information on their website regarding the Capella partnership:

Capella University

CSU undergraduate and graduate students are eligible to transfer into Capella undergraduate and graduate degree programs. Up to 88 CSU undergraduate credits, 8 graduate credits and 32 PhD credits can be transferred. Transfer courses must be equivalent to courses offered at Capella. The following documents contain listings of courses that have been pre-approved by Capella for transfer: General Education Program , Undergraduate Program, Graduate Program, MBA Program. Other benefits include a 10 percent tuition discount, no admission application fee, and access to advising and other services.

Jamie August 8, 2007 at 5:32 p.m.

Ben,

I believe AMU/APU has a decent reputation. I don't think their student services are as strong as CSU, but overall they are NA and just recently got RA. It was interesting to note that when they finally did earn RA they really didn't have to change anything. So, the NA stamp of approval was obviously working and successful.

There is much pretentiousness going on in the distance learning arena. You’re exactly right with your comments. I believe its individuals trying to make their degree seem better than others. I've attended both RA and NA schools and as far as distance learning goes, I preferred the NA schools because that is their only focus.

Distance learning is heating up and anti-competitive practices are taking place with regards to accreditation pretentiousness. People want to believe that if a school is RA then it's considered the "gold standard." What people don't realize that it's harder to earn and maintain the DETC stamp of approval.

As stated above, CSU has partnered with many organizations and universities. I've been a cop for 7 years and our department just recently partnered with CSU. I highly recommend their programs. You can also contact one of the CSU Ambassadors to get another graduate's standpoint.

Want to attend August 15, 2007 at 3:20 p.m.

I have been reading the comments here for some time now; I have decided to attend CSU to obtain my MBA with a concentration in Health Care Management. The price is right and I like the idea that you do it on your own. Can anyone give me advice on what kind of work I will have to do? I did most of my BA online, but I am nervous about doing my MBA online. How are the classes? Do you have finals and midterms, multiple papers? Will you have to use a proctor very often? Any insight would be much appreciated.

Want to attend August 17, 2007 at 7:44 p.m.

Jamie thanks for your reply. I do have a few questions you said "presentations". Does this mean that I will have to present to someone? The discussion board is that for students to post questions that are assigned by the Prof. or just to talk about anything you want. When CSU says self pace what does that mean? Is it that you do the work at any time you want in the 10 weeks they give you?

Walter Chun August 18, 2007 at 4:47 p.m.

I graduated from a PhD program from CSU in 2001. CSU offered me a tremendous opportunity and worked with me to finish. I rate their OSH degree program a 5

Walter Chun

Ray Vampran August 19, 2007 at 6:46 p.m.

I graduated from CSU this December and I found the school to be very educational. I also took advantage of CSU’s partnership with Northcentral University and now I am 4 classes into my MBA! CSU is a great school and to advance through their learning system you must apply yourself. The debate about accreditation is valid, but should not be used to discourage anyone from advancing their educational desires. CSU worked for me and many others. My wife is currently enrolled at CSU because she witnessed firsthand how much importance CSU puts on learning.

Frank August 20, 2007 at 1:17 a.m.

Students seem happy with their CSU experience. That's great. The only downfall I can see is it is only nationally accredited. Some of you may not consider that a big deal, and it may not be depending on what school you want to transfer to. Some government and police jobs accept nationally accredited degrees. However, all of your traditional public schools have the regional accreditation. Majority of them only accept credit from regionally accredited schools. Also, if your interviewing for a job in the private sector and they do a background check, and realize the school is just NA, they may pass you over for someone with a degree from a RA school. Regional Accreditation is the highest accreditation you can get. A lot of the online schools now are also striving to get RA. I'd like to see CSU get RA. I'm sure it's a good school but again potential employers look for RA schools. Yes, some schools accept NA credit, but all schools accept RA.

Jamie August 20, 2007 at 8:36 p.m.

Over 9000+ CSU alumni and over 140 million DETC graduates tend to not agree with this statement of national accreditation being "suboptimal."

DETC seems to have a pretty good success rate over the last 80+ years. Trust me, there are MANY "suboptimal" regional schools that try to hold their coat tail on the sole fact that they are regionally accredited.

I have a hard time believing an employer would "pass you over" because your school is nationally accredited or believes a regionally accredited online school is more prestigious. An accredited online school is exactly that, an ACCREDITED ONLINE SCHOOL. There is a stigma of online education as a whole. Yet, people like to say that "well, my online school is regionally accredited, so it's better than a nationally accredited school." This sounds ridiculous because it is ridiculous. It's personal justification for online education at it's lowest level without any valid backing.

Again, the alumni base of CSU and DETC is very large. I am confident these graduates are not standing in the unemployment line because they attended a nationally accredited school or that there opportunities have been limited. If you think attending a regional school is the key to all your success, you've got an extremely narrow mind of the world around you.

That's what individuals like to believe that online schools like Capella, Northcentral, Walden, University of Phoenix are more prestigious then their nationally accredited counterparts. It's called "anti-competitive business practices" where they are trying to lure more students to the online regional schools. I know the stigma exists, but I refuse to fall prey to it.

If you compare regional verses national accreditation against student outcomes, satisfaction, success rate, academics, course structure, RECOGNITION you'll find there are on the same playing field. The US Department of Education and CHEA do not rank accreditors, but there are individuals that do.

We shouldn't rank the accreditation. What we should be doing is ranking the individual schools themselves. As you can see from the rankings from this website, CSU has been an excellent choice for many students/graduates and continues to be an excellent recognized ACCREDITED school.

Jamie August 21, 2007 at 12:27 a.m.

Frank,

I'm not employed by CSU. I am a graduate and part of the alumni association. I am not trying to sound defensive. I'm just challenging the regional accreditation gold standard mentality.

I am fully aware of the regional accreditation gold standard stigma that exists, I just don't have to agree with it. I've studied at both RA and NA schools and can confidently say my academics were harder at the NA school. I've also studied the accrediation issues for many years.

There are selective employers and schools that will only recognize regional accreditation. I believe the employers are few a far between and are probably ignorant to recogized accreditation. There are many RA schools that will accept NA for transfer, but I do understand not all of them do.

I understand you're not knocking CSU and it is an excellent school. I know of an NA school that went to RA and now hold both accreditations (RA & NA). This school stated nothing changed after earning RA and said DETC accreditation was harder to earn and maintain.

Will CSU pursue regional accreditation? I do hope so, as I believe the RA vs. NA stigma will always linger about. Will it improve CSU's academeic programs? I don't believe so. So, earning RA, although would be good, will only put to rest the RA vs. NA debate.

Jamie August 21, 2007 at 5:16 p.m.

Frank,

You're not coming across as arrogant and you are addressing valid points.

If you talk with anyone who has either graduated and/or is a current student at CSU, you'll repeatedly hear how great the institution is from academics to student services. It's hard to find institutions like CSU.

I agree that if CSU gained regional accrediation they would gain a large amount of students. Although, CSU's student enrollements have continued to soar for many years. I am confident CSU could and should earn RA in the near future.

Jamie August 28, 2007 at 5:22 a.m.

Your friend is incorrect by saying that if a school is not AACSB accredited they won't consider you. This is a complete falisy and is not true.

There are many schools (online & traditional) that are not AACSB accredited and are considered valid and good schools. AACSB is a specialized accreditation (which is not necessary). AACSB is good and recognized, but not a requirement among employers. Many employers don't even understand regional and national accreditation, let alone specialized accreditation. In addition you'll probably be paying quite a bit more in tuition costs for the extra AACSB seal. You've got to determine whether or not its worth it to you. For me, it wasn't.

The same argument applies to regional verses national accreditation. They are BOTH recognized by the U.S. Department of Education and CHEA and there is no ranking system saying one is better than the other. There is a perception that regional is more highly regarded because the regionals accredit the traditional schools.

I picked a DETC school (CSU) because I wanted to attend a school that specialized in adult distance learning. CSU was perfect as their only focus is distance education just like their national accreditor (DETC).

You've got to make the best decision for yourself. Look around at potential employers. If the company you plan on working for requires AACSB then go to a school that has it. I am doubtful you'll find many if any employers requiring AACSB.

Jamie August 28, 2007 at 4:14 p.m.

This is incorrect that all your public universities have AACSB. Only select universities have AACSB.

Is AACSB good to have? Sure. Is it required? No.

Jamie August 28, 2007 at 11:05 p.m.

There are over 3000+ public and private universities in the USA alone. Clearly this is the minority and not the majority. Only the top schools go for and achieve AACSB.

As for Intel, I have heard the story you're referring to. I would like to add that although they will no longer pay for their employees to go to schools like UoP doesn't mean they wouldn't hire someone just based on the fact that their school is not AACSB accredited. If graduates are going to hang their coat tails on the sole fact that their schools have specialized accreditation status they need to start digging a little bit deeper into their personal and professional experience beyond the academic credentials.

Please provide this so called list of employers that will not accept an application solely based on the school not being AACSB accredited.

Will AACSB make you more competitve? Possibly, but I wouldn't bank on it alone. If you're looking for name brand schools go to the Ivy Leagues. But, just because a school is AACSB accredited doesn't automatically make it prestigious.

Walter September 2, 2007 at 12:47 a.m.

Sorry for above post:

Although not required, AACSB accredited programs can help land some high-level positions. That said, the Certified Master in Business Administration (CMBA) examinations are changing this mentality quickly. Through the years some employers were burned on MBA hires and looking for a means of assuring competency. The AACSB adopted new guidelines, but ICI takes it a bit further requiring an examination to prove competency. Furthermore, Western Governors University requires all MBA graduates to pass this examination before graduation. WGU is both nationally (DETC) and regionally accredited, and pushes the competency based concept to learning. Furthermore, colleges and universities (regionally & nationally) are adopting this concept in an attempt to validate their MBA programs. This further validates the argument: when it comes down to it, employers are looking for competency. In other words, whether you’re nationally, regionally, AACSB accredited or a CMBA, you better know what are doing!

Here’s their website: http://www.certifiedmba.com/default.aspx...

Concerning accreditation:

Like the regional accrediting agencies, the DETC Accrediting Commission is reviewed periodically by the U.S. Department of Education to make certain that it meets the criteria for federal recognition as published in Title 34 of the Code of Federal Regulations. This recognition criteria is the same for national accrediting agencies and regional agencies. One difference between the regionals and the DETC is that the DETC specializes in accrediting distance learning institutions - those are the only institutions DETC accredits, while regionals also accredit "traditional" resident colleges and universities.

As of 2007, the DETC is also approved to grant Title IV (financial aid) and professional doctoral degrees (Doctor of Business Administration (D.B.A.), Doctor of Psychology (D.Psych), and Doctor of Education (Ed.D.)). Based on above developments, regional vs. national accreditation seems to be a moot point.

Tony September 5, 2007 at 1:22 a.m.

I've been reading the comments on here. My cousin graduated from Columbia in 2006. If CSU is a great school, then why would only a few schools in the whole state of Alabama, even recognize her degree? I'm not saying CSU is a bad school or anything, so please don't jump all over me. I'm just curious.

Jeff September 5, 2007 at 12:11 p.m.

Jamie,

I read your comments to me as well as Tony. Is a CSU MS Degree in Criminal Justice as good as a MS degree from say the University Alabama? I really have a hard time understanding all the accreditation language that I have read here.

Not Fair September 7, 2007 at 3:09 a.m.

It's not fair that jobs are not accepting applications from universities that are only Nationally Accred. Why? In my opinion National Accred. is just as good if not better than Regional. This doesn't make any sense to me.

Crossed...... September 7, 2007 at 11:38 p.m.

As an Active Duty Air Force employee, and a 2007 Graduate of CSU's Bachelor of Science Program, I haven't had an opportunity to put my degree to use. However, I can attest that my experience with CSU has been rewarding in all aspects. I am more informed, professional and polished as a result of my CSU experience. The professors and the staff possess an unbeatable breadth and depth of knowledge. In my opinion, the aforementioned should be enough for SACS to accredit CSU without hesitation. To my knowledge, CSU applied for Regional Accreditation in 2006 but was passed over by SACS due to the size of their campus and/or administrative buildings. I believe CSU has addressed these issues by securing a site to build and/or expand their existing operations. My Bachelors Degree in Criminal Justice hasn't been a stumbling block thus far. However, all of the Accreditation issues in this forum have me wondering about the obstacles I may face in the future. My ultimate goal is to apply to a law School in the Southern Region. Will a Nationally Accredited degree suffice for admission requirements? I am not sure. I will find out in Dec of 2007 after I take the LSAT.

I am currently enrolled in CSU's MBA program. I have taken 2 courses. I am considering a transfer to NorthCentral University. My main reason behind the transfer is the Regionally Accredited Status of NorthCentral and the mere fact that their business program is accredited by the ACBSP (Association of Collegiate Business Schools and Programs). Also, the tuition at NorthCentral is comparable to CSU's for me as a military member. The only disadvantage is that CSU provides books whereas NorthCentral doesn't. We all know the cost of books can be a pain. In all, I want each of you to understand that an education from CSU can open doors just as any other school out there. The decision to carry a torch is often at the discretion of the person tasked to carry it. For those of you who are currently enrolled at CSU or contemplating enrollment, I say do what's in the best interest for you. The hell with the naysayers..... Walk On.....

Jamie September 8, 2007 at 10:18 a.m.

Northcentral and Columbia Southern University have formed an academic partnership, so transfering will be no problem:

"CSU MBA and MS graduates are eligible for admission into Northcentral University doctorate programs. Up to thirty hours of academic credit may transfer into these programs. CSU graduates will also receive a 10 percent discount on tuition fees not to exceed $2,000."

No "dissertaton" needed to explain recognized accreditation. It's really quite a simple explaination if you ever even had to do it. I asked this question before:

- Please provide this so called list of employers that will not accept an application solely based on the school not being regionally and/or AACSB accredited.

These issues seem to be brought up by students from regionally accredited schools and not from DETC schools. Again, there are over 140 million graduates over the last century. Everyone who has posted here has had a positive experience with CSU both personally and professionally. The accreditation issues that are being presented are not validated by DETC graduates. Aren't they the ones that should be doing the evaluating?

There are many law schools that you could get accepted into. One such school is Concord Law School, which is the only fully accredited online law school available.

If you think that you're a "cut above the rest" if you've attended a regional verses national school you've got a narrow mind of the world around you. Since the popularity of online schools the regionals have been trying to give a false impression that their schools are superior and national schools are inferior. If you believe it at face value and don't conduct any independent research on the topic you're really cheating yourself out of the truth.

Look at what a DETC school has to do to earn accreditation and compare that to the regional standards. They are the SAME. Regional and DETC have to meet the EXACT SAME STANDARDS to earn recognition by US DoE and CHEA. Schools that have gone for dual accreditation (DETC & RA) have typically said that DETC accreditation was harder to earn and maintain.

So, go forth and continue to believe that regional accrediation is the gold standard without researching the facts. For peet sakes, Intel won't even pay for their employees to attend the "regional gold standard" University of Phoneix unless they have AACSB. What does that tell you about regional accreditation? Perception is truth in the eye of the beholder, but if it is not based on truthful facts it's worthless and invalid.

Jamie September 9, 2007 at 11:06 a.m.

I understand there is a stigma of NA schools being inferior to RA schools, but it is not based on any facts or truth. That is why I chose not to accept the stigma.

Would CSU benefit by becoming regionally accredited? I think so, but it won't necessarily improve their academic programs and will only serve to put the stigma to rest.

You got to remember that the "for-profit" schools are regionally accredited as well (University of Phoneix, Capella University, Walden University, Jones International University, Kaplan University, American Intercontinental, DeVry University, Argosy University, Northcentral University). The "for-profit" schools just don't exist in the national accreditation arena. They are very prominent in the regional world as well and the regional "for-profit" schools tend to have more problems than their nationally accredited counterparts.

So, my challenge is that the stigma may be more about "online education" and has less to do with regional vs. national accreditation. The stigma also has a lot to do with the reputation of the school, regardless of NA or RA.

That's why when people think RA is superior, they maybe be trying to elminate the stigma with the RA accreditation, which is ridiculous. I chose to attend a DETC school because they specialize in distance education and the majority of their schools are very well regarded for correspondence education.

People shouldn't disregard distance education as its been a valuable means of educating people for hundreds of years. Some people think pretentiousness is more important than the actually education delivered and received.

Again, you should read the evaluation reports conducted by the DETC regarding graduates successes. You'd be quite surprised as to the outcome. I don't think 140 million graduates over the last century could be wrong nor could the current 4 million plus students currently enrolled in DETC institutions.

Jamie September 10, 2007 at 4:57 a.m.

Walter,

Excellent points and very well put. I couldn't agree with you more.

Fingers Crossed.... September 10, 2007 at 10:32 p.m.

I just want to thank the individuals that posted a response to my dilemma. I'd like to clear the air about something. My dilemma and/or concern was never about whether or not my credits would transfer. I never doubted that at all. CSU's courses compare to that of other online institutions and those which are brick and mortar. This afternoon, I spoke with a representative from NorthCentral University about the possibility of transferring my graduate level credits (6) from CSU. It appears they will transfer. Jamie is absolutely correct when he says CSU and NorthCentral have an established agreement/partnership from an academic standpoint. My finger are crossed about law school acceptance. I am still unsure how a Nationally Accredited Degree will affect the admissions process (if at all). I have heard of (and researched) online law schools such as Concord Law School. While this provides a viable option or alternative, I have decided that I will not study for a law degree via the internet. I have enjoyed my ability to study via the internet. It has allowed me to progress in more ways than one. However, I believe a law degree will require more from me as an individual. I want to venture back into the classroom and get all that my funds/$$$ will allow. With that said, I have decided to apply to schools that offer a PT evening law school and pay little or no attention to their respective tiers or status (Regional or National). In no way am I implying they will be easier to get into. I am applying to these schools so that I can continue to work while attending. As a Full Time student, you are limited in the number of hours you can work per week. I believe the maximum is 15 to 20 hours according to the ABA (American Bar Association). As a Part Time student, there are no such restrictions.

Concord Law School appears to have a wonderful program in place. However, I have found several law schools in the Southern Region at or below the cost of Concord Law School with ABA Accreditation. To my knowledge, graduates of Concord Law School may only practice in California and Wisconsin unless he/she intends to practice on the Federal level. I'd hate to cough up thousands of dollars on a law degree to be limited in my ability to practice. I realize each state has it's own set of rules governing practice. But, I want very few limits and many many opportunities. Honestly speaking, I don't think Concord Law School suits my needs.

I will remain optimistic about this matter. I am confident that my LSAT score and my professional experience will carry enough weight to aid me. My credentials from CSU may be questioned but I don't foresee a total rejection as a result of having them. For those of you considering Columbia Southern University, please don't sleep on it. Instead, I encourage each of you to act on it. The school administrators, faculty, and staff are fully committed to providing the ultimate online educational experience. Trust me!

Fingers Crossed

Jamie September 10, 2007 at 11:31 p.m.

Hi Fingers Crossed,

Thanks for the info and update. Please let us know what you find out.

Jeff September 13, 2007 at 12:18 p.m.

Can we all agree that CSU is a GOOD school and a Degree from CSU is worth the time, money and effort to get it?

Jeff September 13, 2007 at 7:51 p.m.

Jamie,

I have a RA under graduate degree already. I am enrolling in CSU Master Program in Criminal Justice. I have done alot of research on this RA-NA accredited schools. I have not found any employer in my area that even makes a distinction between the two. They just require a accredited degree. So I am having hard time understanding the arguement on why one is better than the other.

Walter September 16, 2007 at 2:22 a.m.

Maybe this will finally put regional vs. national accreditation to rest! Please go to site and view letter from DOE:

http://www.detc.org/downloads/griffithsl......

Like I stated before, the problem isn’t with regionally or nationally accredited bodies, it’s with individuals that don’t understand where these bodies get their authority to grant their accreditation in the first place. If you're questioning this, you're discrediting not only national but regional accreditation as well!

Jeff September 17, 2007 at 12:42 p.m.

Thanks Walter, This clears it up for me!!!

Walter September 20, 2007 at 2:10 a.m.

Here it goes again: http://www.businessschools.com/guidance/...

Kris September 27, 2007 at 6:55 a.m.

Before I begin my comment, I want to caveat that I was actually only looking to do research into CSU for my own personal education for a prospective hire to my brokerage firm. The hire is my first from CSU's MBA program and the individual in question is one of my leading candidates to a managerial position in my analyst section. I found this blog forum and read all the comments and now feel compelled to answer a few things from an employer point of view. My firm (which I choose not to name here) has over 300 employees and manages over $350 million annually. We are a small firm that focuses on wealth strategies for families and small businesses and have been in business for nearly 20 years.

I have on my staff over 50 employees with MBAs and hire about 5-10 new graduates annually. I myself DO NOT have an MBA, only a bachelor's...and I own over 50% of this firm and humbly say I do very well financially indeed.

The BLUF is this...an MBA is nothing but a piece of paper. It is the brains, the will, the determination, honor and integrity behind that paper which are the only accreditations that matter in the real world. The debate of RA and NA is moot. My staff of MBAs are alumni from both RA and NA schools. And from both camps I have real star performers (and a few duds too).

Now I don't know if I will recommend hiring the applicant in front of me, but it is not due to the fact the degree is RA or NA...from what I have gathered, CSU is DETC accredited which is fine by me as my staff will have to train them up anyway.

If you look at a list of most of the Fortune 400 from this year (and granted net worth is not the only benchmark for success...although for business people, can you say that it isn't one?) I would venture a bet that the majority of them do not have an MBA...and we won't even talk of Bill Gates who has no bachelor's either.

And I know and expect to open up a can of worms here...but seriously...successful people in life don't quibble over nonsense...they rise above it and find a way to succeed no matter what.

Now I do value and believe in education...but so many people (Americans especially) focus on that fabled piece of paper called a college diploma as an end-all-be-all ticket to success. Well it's not. The business (the con?) of colleges and universities is making you believe that you need that piece of paper to get anywhere...and especially their particular brand of paper from that specific institution. Guess what? You don't...but yes we live in a world that values the Wizard...so get your ticket to the dance wherever and however you can...and let your character be the accreditation that truly takes you to your destiny.

Walter September 28, 2007 at 1:03 a.m.

I’m in total agreement! My statements have all relayed self worth and individualism. Americans have for to long place credentials over individuals and paid the price. That’s why I mentioned the Certified Master of Business Administration (CMBA) examination and RA vs. NA accreditation being a moot point. Do you actually need any of these, all according on who’s during the interviewing? Right! Your self worth is based on skills and abilities, not degrees and credentials in an employer’s eyes. I'm with Jeff and self satisfaction!!!

Donald September 30, 2007 at 12:53 a.m.

Regionally accredited schools are predominantly academically oriented, non-profit institutions.[6][7] Nationally accredited schools are predominantly for-profit and offer vocational, career or technical programs.[6][7] Every college has the right to set standards and refuse to accept transfer credits. However, if a student has gone to a nationally accredited school it may be particularly difficult to transfer credits (or even credit for a degree earned) if he or she then applies to a regionally accredited college. Some regionally accredited colleges have general policies against accepting any credits from nationally accredited schools, others are reluctant to because they feel that these schools' academic standards are lower than their own or they are unfamiliar with the particular school. The student who is planning to transfer to a regionally accredited school after studying at a nationally accredited one should ensure that they will be able to transfer the credits before attending the nationally accredited school.[8][9][6][7] There have been lawsuits regarding nationally accredited schools who led prospective students to believe that the would have no problem transferring their credits to regionally accredited schools, most notably Florida Metropolitan University and Crown College, Tacoma Washington.[10][11][12]

As you can see from the above, schools with NA have been sued for suggesting credits can be transferred to RA schools. So I guess the subject is NOT a moot point. You people that work for CSU sound like an info-mercial.

I don't know if CSU has a good rep with other schools or businesses but everyone should be well informed before making a decision.

Walter October 1, 2007 at 1:58 a.m.

Maybe, maybe not! But changing! YES!!!!!!!!!

OLD LIST AND GROWING DAILY: DETC credits and degrees are transferable to the following regionally accredited universities and colleges:

Adelphi University (Garden City, NY)
Arcadia University (Glenside, PA)
Bloomfield College (Bloomfield, NJ)
Bucks County Community College (Newtown, PA)
California University of Pennsylvania (California, PA)
Capitol College (Laurel, MD)
Cayuga Community College (Auburn, NY)
Central Pennsylvania College (Summerdale, PA)
College of Notre Dame of Maryland (Baltimore, MD)
College of Southern Maryland (La Plata, MD)
Columbia Union College (Takoma Park, MD)
Cumberland County College (Vineland, NJ)
Delaware State University (Dover, DE)
Dowling College (Oakdale, NY)
Edinboro University of Pennsylvania (Edinboro, PA)
Felician College (Lodi, NJ)
Harrisburg Area Community College (Harrisburg, PA)

Walter October 1, 2007 at 2:04 a.m.

And More! Too many to post! Sorry

Cuyahoga Community College (Cleveland, OH)
Deaconess College of Nursing (St. Louis, MO)
DICKINSON STATE UNIVERSITY (DICKINSON, ND)
Divine Word College (Epworth, IA)
Drake University (Des Moines, IA)
Everest College - Phoenix (Phoenix, AZ)
Faith Baptist Bible College and Theological Seminary (Ankeny, IA)
Franklin College (Franklin, IN)
Franklin University (Columbus, OH)
Friends University (Wichita, KS)
Grace University (Omaha, NE)
Grand Rapids Community College (GRAND RAPIDS, MI)
Great Lakes Christian College (Lansing, MI)
Harry S Truman College (Chicago, IL)
Herzing College (Madison, WI)
Indiana University East (Richmond, IN)
Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis (Indianapolis, IN)
Ivy Tech State College-Central Indiana (Indianapolis, IN)
Jackson Community College (Jackson, MI)
Kankakee Community College (Kankakee, IL)
Kansas City Art Institute (Kansas City, MO)
Kansas Wesleyan University (Salina, KS)
Lake Region State College (Devils Lake, ND)
Lake Superior State University (Sault Ste. Marie, MI)
Laramie County Community College (Cheyenne, WY)
Lexington College (Chicago, IL)
Lincoln Christian College and Seminary (Lincoln, IL)
Lindenwood University (St. Charles, MO)
McKendree College (Lebanon, IL)
Mesalands Community College (Tucumcari, NM)
Midstate College (Peoria, IL)
Millikin University (Decatur, IL)
Mohave Community College (Kingman, AZ)
Morningside College (Sioux City, IA)
Morton College (Cicero, IL)
National Park Community College (Hot Springs National Park, AR)
New Mexico State University (Las Cruces, NM)
North Arkansas College (Harrison, AR)
Northcentral University (Prescott, AZ)
Northeast Iowa Community College (Calmar, IA)
Northwood University (Midland , MI)
Ouachita Baptist University (Arkadelphia, AR)
Regis University (Denver, CO)
Rio Salado College (Tempe, AZ)
Saint Johns University (Collegeville, MN)
Saint Mary-of-the-Woods College (Saint Mary of the Woods, IN)
Saint Paul College (St. Paul, MN)
San Juan College (Farmington, NM)
Southwest Baptist University (Bolivar, MO)
Southwest Missouri State Univeristy (Springfield, MO)
Southwestern Michigan College (Dowagiac, MI)
Southwestern Oklahoma State University (Weatherford, OK)
St. Louis Community College (St. Louis, MO)
Tabor College (Hillsboro, KS)

Jamie October 1, 2007 at 5:17 p.m.

In addition to what Walter has already pointed out, there is also the Servicemembers Opportunity Colleges (SOC) Consortium colleges and universities, which is a list of 1800+ NA and RA membership schools for military service members to earn their degree(s) through these specially selected accredited institutions of higher learning. CSU is one of selected schools to earn this membership.

The SOC membership agreement is that the schools WILL NOT disriminate for transfer of credits between RA and NA schools.

From SOC's Website:

Criterion 1. Transfer of Credit.

Since mobility makes it unlikely that a servicemember can complete all degree program requirements at one institution, a SOC institution designs its transfer practices for servicemembers to minimize loss of credit and avoid duplication of coursework, while simultaneously maintaining the integrity of its programs. It is recognized that SOC institutions must maintain quality and integrity within a complex academic and regulatory environment where resource, regulatory, and academic realities sometimes militate against the broad spirit of flexibility that SOC advocates. Consistent with this reality and with the requirements of a servicemember's degree program, a SOC institution follows the general principles of good practice outlined in the Joint Statement on the Transfer and Award of Credit. Each institution may be required to submit documentary evidence that it generally accepts credits in transfer from other accredited institutions, and that its credits in turn are generally accepted by other accredited institutions.

So, in addition to the list of CHEA HETA schools to transfer to you now have an additional 1800+ schools to choose from as well. I think we've made our point that the transfer of credit issue is in fact "moot" and not an issue or problem that people try to think it is.

Walter October 2, 2007 at 12:21 a.m.

DETC has changed over the years and vocational studies although important aren't the only thing they offer now. Furthermore, last time I checked RA institutions also offer vocational or trade courses. Let's face it, DETC and RA DL degrees are here to stay. Go to CMBA's website and you'll see Western Governors University (DETC & RA accredited) all over their approved (requirement for MBA graduation at WGU) CMBA certification list. The test is over 6 hours long and has been compared to the CPA. This shows side by side comparisons with brick and mortar schools like Harvard, Penn State and the likes. DL works!!! National University, Cornell, and Villanova are just a few well known top tier schools now offering DL education. I'm finishing up my MBA Thesis through Cal National University and proud of it!!!! My wife received hers through Philadelphia University AACSB accredited (brick and mortar), and our courses were so identical that we were arguing over books. (LOL)

Jamie October 2, 2007 at 4:22 p.m.

You're incorrect in your assessment of CSU being located in a abandon strip mall. CSU's facility is in a 10,000 square foot administrative building. In addition, CSU will be building a new facility that will be much larger.

As for Orange Beach referring to a CSU degree as a "fee university" this is incorrect as well. If this were true why then would the City of Orange Beach become an academic partner with CSU?

How about the City of Gulf Shores, Alabama becoming an academic partner with CSU?

----------------------------------------

The City of Gulf Shores has joined the list of CSU learning partners to give City of Gulf Shores employees, their spouses and children a 10 percent tuition discount.

“As Mayor of the City of Gulf Shores, I want to ensure that city employees have opportunities to further their education,” said Billy Duke, City of Gulf Shores Mayor. “From business administration to human resource management, CSU offers quality programs that can benefit all of our staff.”

The City of Gulf Shores has a population of more than 6,500 and is located on the Gulf of Mexico. This small, family-oriented city features a Sportsplex, Nature Walks, Adult Activity Center and Recreational Center and is best known for its snow white beaches.

City employees that would like to learn more about this partnership should visit the City of Gulf Shores Partnership Page.

----------------------------------------

How about The Alabama Gulf Coast Area Chamber of Commerce becoming a academic partner with CSU?

How about the Orange Beach Police Department becoming a academic partner with CSU?

How about The City of Orange Beach Fire and Rescue becoming a academic partner with CSU?

Instead of making broad statements with no backing or facts to suppport it, why don't you show us specifically where you've heard "the locals in Orange Beach refer......"

Bob, if I can make a suggestion to you, before you post information regarding a university only on the basis of "what you hear" why don't you take the time to do a little bit of research. That way your posting(s) can come across as more intelligent.

Jamie October 3, 2007 at 7:09 a.m.

Hi Jeff,

I am glad to hear you're having a positive experience at CSU. I'm confident you'll have this same experience throughout the duration of your studies.

As you can see there are many alumni who have had a very positive experience with the school both academically and professionally.

You are correct in that the few people that post negative comments about CSU are misinformed (and/or choose not to be accurately informed) and have not done any research about CSU. The true facts about CSU are easily attainable for review.

Current CSU Student Part II October 5, 2007 at 5:36 p.m.

The Work Required Is Minimal
If you’re required to read a few articles, write a few simple papers, and hand in a five-page dissertation at the end, it’s not likely you’ve learned enough to earn a legitimate degree. The School Is Located In A State With Little Regulation
Some states make it easier for diploma mills to operate than others. Alabama, California, Hawaii, Idaho, Mississippi, Montana, and Wyoming are all common locations for diploma mills, because of loopholes in local law or lax regulation. Of course, there are many legitimate schools located in these states as well.

Walter October 5, 2007 at 10:38 p.m.

Here's some recent information on employer acceptance!

Jamie, notice the part about being honest concerning how the degree was obtained. What you've been saying all along has been correct!

Validating Your Online Degree to Employers

Online Education Gaining Popularity
The good news is that most authorities seem to agree that online learning's increasing popularity will bode well for graduates. As more students choose online education, more employers will be choosing employees with online degrees. The Washington Post reported that by early 2008, according to a firm that studies trends in education, one in 10 college students will be enrolled in an online degree program.

What Employers Think About Online Education
According to a study sited in a report by The Secretary of Education's Commission on the Future of Higher Education, the majority of employers believe that online learning is equal or superior to the experience of learning in a classroom. Some big-name companies such as Texas Instruments won't hire people with online degrees. However, the CIA will.

When considering a course of study, call a few big-name employers in your prospective field and ask a human resource representative what the company policy is regarding online degrees.

Tips for Validating your Online Degree
Being proactive in your job search is the best way for you to validate your online degree. The same study from Vault included recommendations from human resource professionals about applying for jobs:

Be honest about obtaining your degree online. Employers (57%) think that disclosure should be requirement of employment.
Provide transcripts, course information, and background details on the program, including accreditation.
Obtain industry experience, such as an internship, to enhance your application.
Also consider additional activities to help dispel myths about online education stereotypes, such as supplementing your resume and experience with activities such as professional organizations or volunteerism to illustrate your people skills.

Tony October 6, 2007 at 6:20 p.m.

With all the stigma associated with distance learning and national accreditation why settle for lower level schooling. With so many choices out there wouldn't it be wise to choose an RA school?

The last thing I want to worry about after investing 4 years is to think my degree will be frowned upon. CSU might be good, but with so many RA distance learning schools available I would lean toward them. I don't think the point is completely moot when comparing RA vs NA.

If NA is superior or even equal to RA there wouldn't be a debate about it. NA schools are trying so hard to keep up with RA schools because of the stigma. There has to be some truth to the fact that RA is better than NA or so many people wouldn't be talking about it.

Walter October 9, 2007 at 1:42 a.m.

If you approach this debate based on opinions, of course regionals are on higher ground than nationals. The fact that they’re over 4,000 regionally accredited schools confirms and validates this fact. It’s like Wal-mart vs. Mom and Pop stores trying to stay in the competitive market. So, you must ask why has nationally accredited programs been able to stay in a competitive market dominated by regionally competitive institutions?

1. Maybe because regionally or nationally accredited agencies aren’t doing the regulating. The Department of Education and CHEA are the governing bodies responsible for approving and regulating any accredited agency in the United States. If you’re saying RA is better than NA, no problem some may even be in agreement! Only problem is the DOE and CHEA says RA and NA are equal. The DOE say their evaluation process is identical and meet the same standards. There lies the problem because you’re basically devaluating all these agencies. Why, well because you’re saying the ones that evaluate these agencies are wrong! If they’re wrong, then all agencies under them are disaccredited and undervalued. You can’t take what you want and leave the rest.
2. Maybe it’s because if I’m a professor at a RA school, why would a promote DL or NA schools? I’ll be cutting off my bread and butter. I get paid to fill a classroom not a website. What if high school graduates start enrolling in DL and NA programs? In the business world it’s called supply and demand. Working adults started this boom and it’s not going anywhere. If it wasn’t for DETC and other DL education innovators, we wouldn’t be debating this topic in the first place because there wouldn’t be a topic to debate. DETC started playing the game (80 yrs. & counting) and regionals are playing now. Do your research and you’ll find out Northcentral University (totally DL institution) blew the brick and mortar schools away concerning enrollment. Quality is what people are looking for whether it’s regionally or nationally brick and mortar schools, or totally DL regionally or nationally accredited schools. They’re good and bad regionally accredited schools and I’m sure they’re good and bad nationally accredited schools. The question should be; what meets your needs? If you’re unsure, maybe neither is what you’re looking for!

Oh yeah, most regionally and nationally accrediting agencies are getting along and playing nice!

Jay October 9, 2007 at 1:43 p.m.

I completed my MBA with CSU and have had no questions regarding its legitimacy or accreditation. I am in total agreement with Walter and think that the RA and NA schools are “playing nicer” because not cooperating with each other only “taints” the entire US education accreditation system and hurts all involved. I think a lot of the RA vs. NA hoopla in these discussion forums is influenced by a large amount of misinformation on the subject. The face of education in the US is changing and I am sure will work out in the future. Anyway, I found this article and feel compelled to share it with others in this forum, should any prospective students have any reservations about attending CSU or any institution with DETC accreditation. http://www.military-advanced-education.c... Lastly, I would like to thank Jamie for his outstanding representation of CSU and alumni.

Jeff October 10, 2007 at 1:52 p.m.

Walter,
I have never really understood the NA vs. RA accredited degree debate. All I really want is a quality education that’s accessible and affordable. I fell that Columbia Southern University provides this to its students and me. I am happy that I chose CSU to further my education and I am looking forward to completing my degree program.

Karim October 12, 2007 at 3:18 p.m.

First and foremost, I applaud all that have taken the opportunity to contribute to this forum. Especially, thank you Jamie for your diligent efforts in bringing to bear comprehensive research relating to online education. I am sure that other open-minded forum participants agree, that efforts such as yours has a very positive impact in offering clarity and insight on misconceptions as it relates to the forum topics. As someone that has benefited from national accredited online platforms, it is encouraging to find a decades long dilemma being brought to the forefront.

As an employee of the nations third largest commuter service, I am afforded the same opportunities given to traditional grads for career advancements. Additionally, as a state employee I was eligible for tuition reimbursement while enrolled at CSU. I have found online education a viable option to the traditional brick and mortar environment. Approximately twenty years ago, I left college after having completed three years of post secondary education and joined the US Army Reserves. However, it remained a personal objective to complete an undergrad degree program (CSU / mba 2005). The oblivious here, is that I am not the “typical” 18-22-year-old student without dependents and thus was in dire need of a more robust educational implement.

It goes without saying that for veterans and citizens alike, key issues dealing with distance education is of the utmost importance. For many non-traditional students, the online approach, whether synchronous or asynchronous, national or regionally accredited platforms oftentimes provide the only access to fulfilling educational goals. On the other hand traditional institutions often automatically reject applicant credentials, and there are a myriad of instances where both schools were regionally accredited. Recently, the governor of my state signed into law a new educational act that in essence prevents 4 year colleges and universities alike from rejecting credits completed at 2 year community colleges. The choice of an online national accredited program was quite clear to me as a viable option. My transcripts from colleges as well as military institutions were fairly evaluated without prejudice. The courses at CSU were vigorous and in many instance more challenging than those completed at traditional colleges attended.

In conclusion, I urge all to support the present transfer of credit language in the Higher Education Act amendments. This amendment prohibits rejecting credits solely on the grounds of the nature of accreditation. It appears that many of those that claim to embrace the values of traditional education are struggling to retain what they themselves recognize as a flawed strategy.

If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less."
--General Eric Shinseki, former U.S. Army Chief of Staff

Joe October 14, 2007 at 6:44 p.m.

If one is able to receive a MBA from U of North Alabama, a RA brick and mortar state public university, from courses offered by CSU doesn't this satisfy the need for a regionally accredited degree?

Is the online MBA degree from UNA any different than than the on-campus degree?

Is UNA AACSB accredited?

Jeff October 15, 2007 at 3:54 p.m.

I have heard (but not sure where) that Columbia Southern University was likely to get RA accreditation in the near future. Has anyone heard this as well, and if so can you advise on the progress; if any.

Jeff October 15, 2007 at 7:29 p.m.

Nirav,

This is a Columbia Southern University blog.

Jamie October 15, 2007 at 8:57 p.m.

Hi Nirav,

Jeff is correct in that this is a CSU specific related blog. To answer the basics of your question(s) Dowing is regionally accredited through the Middle States Association (MSA). Regional accreditation is recognized by the U.S. Dept of Education and CHEA, just like national accreditation.

Now, Dowling's claim of IACBE accreditation is fine, but be aware that IACBE claims specialized accreditation for business programs and it is NOT recognized by US DoE and/or CHEA.

I checked the IACBE website and it states that they are in the process of seeking recognition through CHEA:

"The Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) serves as the recognition body for institutional and specialized accreditors. In January 2006, CHEA declared the IACBE to be eligible for CHEA recognition. The IACBE is currently in the process of seeking that recognition."

But, it then states on their website that US DoE does not recognize specialized accreditation, which is NOT accurate:

Is the IACBE recognized by the United States Department of Education?

"The United States Department of Education does not recognize professional accrediting associations in business; therefore, none of the business accrediting associations is recognized by the US Department of Education."

Last I checked, specialized business accreditors such as AACSB and ACBSP are recongized not only by CHEA, but US DoE as well.

Jamie October 16, 2007 at 3:43 a.m.

Joe,

If you're accepted into UNA's online MBA you'll eventually graduate with a UNA (RA) degree.

The UNA/CSU relationship promotes the UNA online MBA. The duties of the CSU Admissions Department are to answer prospective student questions regarding the programs, the admissions process, enrollment and to process the UNA Application for Admissions for the online MBA program. Students enrolling in the UNA online MBA are students of UNA and take courses taught by UNA professors.

I was accepted into UNA after completing my BSBA at CSU, but they were requiring me to repeat business statistics and an accounting class. These two classes were nothing short of a nightmare when I took them at CSU, so I was not very interested in repeating them at UNA. I ultimately decided to re-enroll at CSU for my MBA, which was a great decision for me.

Walter October 20, 2007 at 1:46 p.m.

Quick question! Are all regionally accredited colleges following this standardized course requirement you refer to? I’m assuming “YES.” Therefore, from my understanding, you’re saying all regionally accredited colleges follow a standardized curriculum. I believe this assumption is false, and higher institutions of education follow certain guidelines base on their (each schools) discipline. Case in point: here’s two regionally accredited MBA program requirements.

Course Requirements:

Regionally accredited college #1:

The MBA program requires completion of 12 graduate courses (36 graduate credits) including eight required graduate courses and four elective courses.

The required courses are:
• Business and Society (MGM 540)
• Organizational Theory and Behavior (MGM 580)
• Management Accounting Control Systems (ACC 520)
• Operations Management Theory and Practice (MGM 570)
• Marketing Strategies and Planning (MKT 550)
• Managerial Economics (ECO 540)
• Financial Management (FIN 530)
• Business Policy and Decision Making (MGM 590)*

Regionally accredited college #2:

Program Requirements
There are a total of 48 credit hours in the MBA program. They are distributed as follows:

Business Management Core Courses: 21 credit hours

Course Name Course Number Credits
Accounting for Managers ACC 520 3
Human Resource Management HRM 518 3
Management Information Systems MIS 515 3
Marketing Management MKT 505 3
Multinational Economics of Technology BUS 505 3
Financial Management Problems FIN 525 3
Quantitative Business Analysis MGS 511 3
Total Business Management Core Courses 21

Students must maintain a grade point average of 3.0 for all graduate courses included in their program. No more than two "C" grades, regardless of overall grade point average, will be counted toward graduation.

Note: One requires eight core courses and the other seven courses and you can receive a “C” in two courses of study. One requires 48, the other 36, and mine 45 total semester credit hours. An analysis of courses presented, verifies these school’s different approaches of what is required and not required courses. My argument doesn’t evolve around a given schools ability to set their standards, but the acceptance of credits when they meet the receiving school’s standards. Not discrediting schools based solely on their accreditation alone. Why, because the accreditation is recognized by the same entity that recognizes theirs.

Jeff October 22, 2007 at 5:31 p.m.

Aspen Student,

I am enrolled in CSU's Master of Science in Criminal Justice program. I am taking my first class as we speak. I can tell you that thus far I am totally pleased with the way I have been treated by the CSU faculty and staff.

Jeff October 22, 2007 at 6:57 p.m.

Renee,

Can you tell me more about CSU being in the RA school process?

Jeff October 22, 2007 at 7:22 p.m.

Jamie October 15, 2007 at 8:21 p.m.

Jeff,

Unfortunately I cannot confirm nor deny the fact that CSU is considering regional accreditation in the near future. Lets just say this, CSU is growing rapidly and expotentially.

From the CSU website under "History."

"Today CSU is one of the most rapidly growing universities in the U.S. with a record enrollment of more than 8,000 students. By the end of 2008, a new 40,000 square foot facility will be constructed to accommodate plans to hire at least 100 more employees in the next few years. From 2006 to 2007, staff has increased by 40 percent to ensure that students are all given the individualized attention they deserve."

The fact that CSU is planning on moving into a new 40,000 square foot facility and that at least 100+ staff members will be needed in the next few years says a lot about CSU's continued and future growth.

Jamie October 23, 2007 at 6:34 a.m.

Mike,

I wouldn't be so quick to judge CSU's academic rigor based on "just starting." At any college or university the classwork will vary from course to course. I had courses at CSU in which I accelerated and excelled in and others that were nothing short of a nightmare. There were several classes in which I barely passed, even with a tutor. I personally remember the HRM class and recall it not being too challenging. In all honesty, HRM is not a very diffcult topic to study and is pretty straight forward. Remember that each class will vary in rigor, so take advantage of the classes that aren't too difficult.

As for the open book tests this is a very common practice among distance learning. I found that the open book tests tended to be more difficult than the closed book tests, as it requires you to do more research for the questions.

Do what's best for you, but don't be so quick to judge CSU academic rigor based on just starting out. You can talk to many graduates, including myself, that can attest to CSU's academic rigor and the challenges it took to complete the degree programs.

Jamie October 23, 2007 at 3:52 p.m.

As a follow-up and comparison to my last response, after graduating from CSU's MBA/Public Administration program, I had decided to enroll in a California State University online master's program. The class was approximately ten weeks in length and conisisted of writing a one page paper every week (10 pages total). The final consisted of having a phone conversation with the professor and that was it!

So, comparing academic programs and classes is like comparing apples to oranges. Not every class and school will be the same. Here was a regional accredited state university, where the academic rigor was nothing short of a joke.

When I was attending CSU my classwork consisted of multiple choice unit exams, short essay assignments, discussion boards, research papers, special projects and proctored finals. I had never had that much academic work required when I was attending my local college.

Dr. Bob Ph.D October 24, 2007 at 2:48 p.m.

After reading several of these comments on RA vs. NA Universities I have one comment to make: Any online University can not, will not, compete will with the traditional University where Professors and students can interact in person. The learning process is more that just sitting behind a computer and reading material to take an online exam.

Jamie October 24, 2007 at 4:49 p.m.

I am guessing that Dr. Bob comes from the traditional university setting and has never experienced online education either by teaching it or being a student. Most traditional educators don't believe in distance learning as it hurts enrollments in their respective schools and classes. They believe the gold standard (or only standard) is being "face-to-face" with the professor even when studies have been shown that distance learning delivers equivalent, if not improved, learning outcomes.

There has been extensive research studies with distance learning and it's been shown that there is no significant difference in the learning process and outcomes. The study went as far back as 1928. Check out the weblink regarding the "No Significant Difference" study (Google search it - can't post web addresses)

So, Dr. Bob's comments (riddled with grammatical issues) is nothing more than his personal opinion and viewpoint, which he is entitled to. Although, I would have thought most people with the title of "Dr" would base their thoughts more on research and less on personal opinion. Isn't that what research doctorates are about?

How about Dr. Fred Saba (traditional and online educator/author/researcher) who has more than 30 years of experience in implementing and managing large scale distance education systems. His research in the field has won several international awards, and he has been referred to as the “leading theorist writing today” in scholarly publications. He has taught in all distance education formats for more than three decades. He established the widely known and recognized Distance-Educator.com website in 1995.

Dr. Bob needs to do some extensive research regarding distance education before postings negative comments about it, as he is not representing his "PhD" very well. Although, it is realtively easy to bash something you know nothing about and be able to remain anonymous, as there is no accountability on your part.

Walter October 25, 2007 at 12:23 a.m.

I would be in total agreement with the Doctor’s comments but believe we’re placing too much responsibility on institutions and not enough on enrollees. In other words, say you enter a traditional university, pass your examinations and graduate with your Master of Business Administration. On the other hand, say another student enters an online university, pass his or her examinations, and graduates with their Master of Business Administration. Based on the Doctor’s logic, there’s little to no chance these individuals are capable of competing on the same level. Unfortunately, the Certified Master of Business Administration Examination (basic MBA competency examination) proves this theory incorrect. Out of 300 confident MBAs that took the examination, only 54% passed the examination. Schools like Washington University, Northeastern University, New York University, University of Texas at Austin, Harvard University, Wake Forest University, Penn State University, City University of New York, Clemson University and many others took this examination. Only the top tier AACSB accredited schools faired well and unranked schools produced some good CMBAs as well. The second highest scorer was from an unranked school. Online universities just recently start participating in the examination. Western Governors University requires all MBA students to take and pass the CMBA examination. So far they have a very impressive pass rate. It should be noted, Western Governors University is a totally online university. Furthermore, WGU is both regionally and nationally (DETC) accredited. Why mention this so called CMBA examination, it demonstrates quality education can be obtained as long as sound methodologies of learning are utilized. So, are the schools responsible for their student’s failure on the CMBA examinations? I say No! Well, just like some law school graduates take the bar five times to pass, some MBA graduates may need to follow the same concept. Learning is part institution and part student, not some imaginary power bestowed only on traditional universities. I’m by no means saying examinations are the answer, but I’m definitely saying opinions without validation aren’t.

Walter October 26, 2007 at 2:05 a.m.

Thanks for the comments! Much appreciated!!! I’m not endorsing competency based examinations, but just proving a point. If you base education on opinions, assumptions and status, when does it end? Standards are established for situations like we’re discussing and that’s all I’m saying. That’s why the USDOE and CHEA exists, and why we’re talking about schools and accreditation in the first place. You want to believe your degree is better than mine, fine by me. I believe education is universal and unbiased, and should be treated as such.

Jeff October 26, 2007 at 6:25 p.m.

Just want add one more statement: Thank-you Columbia Southern University for being there!!!

CSU Student October 27, 2007 at 2:44 a.m.

Good News! CSU just got approval to allow to offer students Federal Financial Aid. This is proof that CSU and online colleges are growing.

Jeff October 29, 2007 at 7:52 p.m.

CSU Student,

Will the Federal Fiancial Aid Status help CSU to receive RA Accreditation? I heard or read it somewhere just not sure where.

M October 29, 2007 at 11:09 p.m.

To Jamie and “Want to Attend,”

I would agree that taking on a MBA is student driven; a desire to go the extra mile not because you have to but because you want to. However, I did read the chapters first. Then I went back and answered all of the questions in one day. The answers to the quizzes were verbatim from the book as were the questions (not very difficult for this level). I am not sure I want to attend a university where you do not have to think about the answers and the questions do not require you to think outside the box. The quizzes looked very similar to the kind you might find on a textbook website or used for test study preparation.

I accomplished the majority of my undergrad HRM courses online and I can tell you that those courses were much more challenging than CSU’s graduate HRM course. I am going to finish the HRM course but it will be my last course with CSU. The course is set up where an average student could finish the HRM course in about two weeks. This is not the kind of school or degree that I intend on pursuing. In fact, I spoke with a very well known traditional university today and I plan to enroll next term.

Additionally, I am in the military and spoke with my base education office about CSU. While they have not had any complaints, they did state that for a graduate school the workload in the HRM course was suspect at best. I want to attend a university that does not have issues with accreditation or give the impression of being a diploma mill.

Sometimes when something is too good to be true or too easy accomplish its for a reason; because it is. I think this is the case regarding CSU.

Best wishes

Want to attend October 30, 2007 at 12:53 a.m.

M,
I don't consider myself an "average" student. Most of my B.A. degree was done online with a RA college. Believe me I worked my butt off for that degree. Not every school is for everybody. I see you are in the military, I am a military spouse. The education center is where I also got the info on CSU. If you are not happy attending CSU by all means go to another university where the work will be piled on with deadlines. I like the structure of CSU; I can work at my own pace without deadlines. If you were able to do the work of a “traditional” school without any set deadlines you can probably finish the class within 2 weeks. I see no difference. Why is it because a university is online only it is considered a diploma mill? Now most colleges and universities offer online classes. Do we label them as diploma mills? No hard feelings here. Good Luck

Steve October 30, 2007 at 3:11 p.m.

Regional accreditation doesn't necessarily mean that the school is good but it does set a minimum professional curriculum/ethics/standards to maintain accreditation and makes degrees obtained from such a school professionally accepted in most cases.

Ray October 30, 2007 at 9:43 p.m.

For students interested in entering a profession that require licensure and professional certification ( Psychology, Social Work, Counseling, Engineering, Medicine, Education ), I highly recommend that students enroll at a university or college that is Regionally Accredited and offers the program of study.

I know a few of you are itching to respond with glowing reviews of DETC and wonderful personal experiences. Wonderful. Relax and take a breath. Now it's my turn. There are hundreds of traditional regionally accredited universities and colleges that are offering degrees online. USNEWS and Petersons has a nice listing of distance learning institutions. Onlinedegreeviews has listings as well. The corporate and non-profit world has yet to fully accept NA accreditation. DETC acceptance is growing and rigourous programs exist that are DETC. I do not mean DETC is substandard. What I mean is that a Regionally Accredited College or University currently opens more doors to certification, licensure, and employment opportunity. Yes. USDOE does not make a distinction between NA and RA. Yes. There is HETA. As a student of a DETC and Regionally Accredited school, I hereby leave the DETC amores and RA enthusiasts to bicker amongst yourselves. Adios.

CSU student October 30, 2007 at 10:38 p.m.

I don't even worry about the DETC vs. RA degree, B&M versus online nonsense. I'm receiving a quality education from CSU and that's all that matters.

M October 31, 2007 at 3:15 a.m.

Seems like I might have struck a nerve. Seems like a lot of folks on here stand behind CSU. I didn't mean to do that. However, the responses might be due to loyalty or because of an employment connection with the school that is not displayed in the comments. Blogs and sites such as these, while an open forum, are open to bias.

I am not so much concerned with the RA vs NA but that of the course content and the amount of work behind the degree. Life is full of deadlines that we must meet (work, taxes, and family responsibilities). I think the deadlines are an important aspect of learning. If you can't meet a deadline in a learning environment how do you expect to do it while multi-tasking four or five projects and leading 20-30 employees. Once you have your degree and begin working at the next higher level, deadlines and responsibilities will increase and become more complex. For some, CSU may meet their needs but I do not feel that it will meet mine.

No hard feelings. Best of luck with your education.

Robert November 1, 2007 at 2:23 a.m.

Does anyone know anything about Andrew Jackson University? Or how they compare with Columbia Southern University?

Walter November 1, 2007 at 12:12 p.m.

Considering they’re both DETC (US DOE & CHEA recognized) accredited, they should be excellent schools in administrating quality distance learning education. It should be mentioned, CSU was one of the first DETC schools selected to participate in the doctoral degree program. This speaks for itself and shouldn’t be overlooked. The question, what’s your feeling and needs? Do some research into both institutions (call both school's admissions office etc.) and make a sound decision after reviewing feedback! Hope this helps!

PS: CSU & AJU are both great schools!

Walter November 2, 2007 at 12:40 a.m.

Quick hint: When enrolling in my MBA program, I found it extremely beneficial to check the faculty roster. Most of my professors were teaching (or former teachers) at brick and mortar universities (University of California, University of Arizona, University of Phoenix, Northern Arizona University, Arizona State University, Nova Southeastern University, Iowa State University etc.) and during DL on the side. Good DL schools will either hire experienced teachers and/or experts in the field. They also usually train them in DL instruction and online adult’s needs. That’s why it’s funny listening to some of the comments that refer to DL degrees as substandard. Well, I guess your degree is also substandard, considering the same professor teaches your class. My opinion, one’s no better than the other, but each compliments the other. I hope this helps!

Jamie November 6, 2007 at 1:19 a.m.

And to elaborate on the CSU professors, I've had the pleasure of meeting several of my previous professors at two graduation ceremonies and several alumni meetings. They have all been top notch, very professional and approachable.

The professor that is the Commander of the Wyoming National Guard was instrumental in my success in several leadership classes. Now that I am teaching, I have recommended and reconncected with this professor for other teaching opportunities.

Just like in the traditional setting you can have and maintain a professional connection in online learning with your professors long after you've graduated.

CSU Student November 6, 2007 at 5:19 p.m.

Online learning will never comptete? That's your opinion Bob. You state online learning will never compete with the classroom settings, but where are the facts to back up your statement, Mr. Doctor? Possibly, YOU are a little biased at the fact, that maybe you've only attended a traditional college. It seems that you have to put down online learning, in order to make your degree seem superior to a school like CSU. If that's what you have to do to feel better about yourself, then more power to you. Just my thought on the matter.

Jamie November 7, 2007 at 5:27 a.m.

Dr. Bob is entitled to his opinion just like anyone else. There will always be some critics of distance learning regardless of what factual data and/or student outcomes are presented.

Instead of a blanketed broad statement of "online learning will never compete with the classroom setting" you need to broaden you educational horizons a bit. Not every student is geared towards sitting in a classroom and enduring a lecture. Some students, such as me, are more successful without that environment and are independent learners and thinkers without having a professor physically sit in front of me. And, that very same lecture in the physical classroom is now on my computer where I can view it as many times as I like and/or need.

You've also got to remember that no matter how much you dislike and/or disagree with distance education it is hear to stay. With prestigious schools like Pepperdine University, Penn State, Stanford, Harvard, Columbia all offering distance educational programs you've got to think that if these schools have now come around to offer distance education have these top schools sacrificed their quality of their distance education programs? I don't think these schools (or any school for that matter) would risk their reputation if they didn't believe distance education was a viable option for students to pursue their educational goals.

As much as you disagree with distance education there are millions of other students, graduates, universities, alumni, professors, academic administrators that believe in and support distance education, as it has been a successful medium for providing quality education for hundreds of years. I think your antiquated opinion is out voted by the millions!

Jay November 7, 2007 at 1:54 p.m.

I would like to make a few counterpoints about Dr. Bob’s comments regarding distance education. I have attended several classes at traditional institutions of higher learning and distance education.

While learning in the traditional manner, on several occasions, class was disrupted (to a degree) by either a student not comprehending the subject matter and asking the lecturer a lot of questions, or side-bars would occur, whether they pertained to class or not, distracting my (and others) concentration.

Also, I have attended classes where “tenured” professors really did not care as to what quality of education / instruction he or she was providing their students. This is not to include how many ridiculous assignments that were handed out by teachers that really did not put much thought into what concepts they wanted their students to grasp.

In traditional learning, many students are running late to make a class due to unforeseen circumstances and cannot fully concentrate because in class because of the stress experienced before the class, or are simply too tired to concentrate because they were either partying, or working late. Weekend and night classes are also questionable in “quality” because the students and professor are simply tired due to the preceding daily / weekly activities.

One “brick and mortar” school I attended had to offer several classes I desperately needed “online,” because they didn’t have enough students enroll to offer the class during the term. The format in which they offered the class was sub-standard because they were delving into a teaching method they were inexperienced in.

With distance learning, I was able to learn when the timing was convenient for me to fully concentrate on the subject matter. Distance learning also taught me time management and planning. Having a flexible “class time” was a definite advantage to my comprehension and retention of the studied material.

I do not think that traditional education is in any way superior to distance learning, except for social networking opportunities and camaraderie.

This forum is about Columbia Southern University, so naturally alumni, students or former students will post comments or answer questions for perspective students. As a graduate of CSU, I have no qualms assisting perspective students with information about CSU or offering my personal opinions of the school. In fact, I feel obligated to assist other people who are asking questions about CSU.

In conclusion, I would like to see the subject matter in this forum steer more toward the quality of education CSU provides and posting opinions of this institution instead of debating over NA vs. RA accreditation or DL vs. B&M. The scope of this forum is to post opinions / information of CSU as an online institution. Remember, “Online Degree Reviews”.

Jay November 8, 2007 at 11:59 a.m.

Dr. Bob,
A debate, when conducted properly, is a positive thing and provides others more information to form a personal opinion.I think regardless of whether someone chooses a DL or B&M institution of higher learning, I think the most important thing is that they LEARN and GROW.

A forum such as this is beneficial to perspective students to read different points of view, gather information and make an informed decision as to which path to take.

I think all of us participating in this forum can agree to disagree sometimes, so long it is in a respectable fashion. I hope my comments did not offend you! I was only making counterpoints.

My primary concern is to answer any questions someone considering CSU might have, or relay my personal experience with CSU. That being said, I do believe that DL is not for everyone and think that B&M is better for younger students, those lacking professional experience or people having difficulty with self discipline. So, in another perspective, I do agree with your comments.

Again, it was never my intent to offend....

Jay

James in KY November 8, 2007 at 8:58 p.m.

Currently, I am enrolled the Criminal Justice Administration Masters Program. I am just about to finish my first course. I have found that my Professor is very helpful and willing to help when I needed assistance. The student services staff at CSU is very friendly and willing to go that extra mile when you need assistance. I am a totally pleased with my experience thus far with CSU.

Walter November 10, 2007 at 8:09 p.m.

Thank you Dr. Arthur! Your comments are very much appreciated! I also think it's important to view education as universial, and we should focus on inclusion not exclusion. Although all comments are important, I'm equally glad to see CSU educational worth is being discussed not other moot topics. I myself would like to hear more about their doctorate degree program!

Jamie November 11, 2007 at 12:51 a.m.

I would also like to thank Dr. Arthur for putting his unbiased opinion so eloquentally and in a straightforward intelligible manner. Simply put, distance education is only as valuable as what you put into it.

Regarding CSU's professional Doctorate of Business Administration (DBA) they were the first one to offer the nationally accredited program through DETC. The only other DETC doctorate at that time was an Ed.D through Harrison-Middleton University.

What I've heard from current DBA students at CSU is that they are thoroughly enjoying the program. Very labor intensive, but extremely rewarding and valuable.

Here's some info regarding what the CSU DBA is like:

Doctoral Dissertation

Doctoral students are required to complete a dissertation that will be approved by and defended before a dissertation committee. The defense may take part "at a distance" and no degree shall be awarded without majority of committee approval. CSU will assist students in the dissemination and publication of their research. Information regarding this capstone doctoral requirement is published in the Dissertation Handbook.

Testing and Evaluation

DBA Courses: CSU courses are divided into units. CSU Assessment Instruments for the non-dissertation DBA courses include Unit Quizzes, Section Exams, Online Discussion Board Assignments, Article Reviews, Case Studies, and Final Examinations. All non-dissertation DBA courses contain six unit exams, two essay based section exams, and a final exam. In addition, most DBA courses contain one or more of the other assessment instruments.

Dissertation courses: The student’s dissertation committee is responsible for assessing achievement of learning objectives and outcomes. This assessment is accomplished at five points in the student’s research and preparation of the dissertation. They are: Concept Paper (DBA 9306A); Research Methodology (DBA 9306B); Proposal (DBA 9306C); Manuscript (DBA 9306D); and Oral Defense (DBA 9410).

As you progress through your course, you will receive e-mail grade notifications for each assignment and you may view your grades through the online course grade book. In addition, the Student Access Site provides you with online access to your academic record. Here you can view information about your course and upload papers or project files.

Susan R. November 13, 2007 at 4:59 p.m.

I am having a hard time choosing between Columbia Southern University and California Coast University. Can anyone give me some pros and cons that any potential student should be made aware of between these two? I have called both schools and have visited there respective web sites.

Jamie November 13, 2007 at 5:59 p.m.

Susan,

In addition to Jay's advice, I'd also compare the alumni association and its benefits between both schools. This is where you'll be connecting and networking with your fellow graduates many years after you graduate. Also, you can call CSU and request to talk with one of several ambassadors who have already graduated from CSU, where they can give you a student/graduate perspective, such as Jay's. I'm one of the ambassadors and you can call CSU directly to get my contact info if you'd like. There are also other ambassdors with unique professional backgrounds as well. Just select which amabassdor best suits your professional career and personal goals. I wish you the best in your decision. Let us know what you decide.

Jamie November 13, 2007 at 9:17 p.m.

Susan,

I am confident you've made a great decision in selecting CSU for your academic goals. Make sure to visit here every once and a while and update us with your progress. Enjoy your studies!

Jamie November 15, 2007 at 12:16 a.m.

I would contact your student representative as they'll probably need to re-evaluate your transfer credits for the classes you mentioned.

Jamie November 16, 2007 at 4:59 p.m.

CSU is getting prepared to start offering financial aid and should be implemented in the very near future.

Jamie November 20, 2007 at 5:29 a.m.

Hi Jeff,

Which course do you just complete at CSU? What are your thoughts so far? I remember attending where you needed to read the ENITRE textbook from cover to cover. They tested your knowledge with multiple unit exams, short essay assignments, discussion board participation, projects scholarly/research papers and proctored final exams.

I've attended several traditional universities and never had this much work required of me in a class. That is when I realized the academic standards at CSU were stringent, but I believe this is a great thing. I learned so much throughout my studies at CSU, which I now apply in my personal and professional life each a every day.

Jamie November 21, 2007 at 5:07 a.m.

Jeff,

Thanks for sharing your experience thus far at CSU. It's always great to get a student's perspective. I'll look forward to seeing you as a CSU alum in the future. There are many fantastic benefits the alumni association as to offer, which is invaluable to the current and future graduates. Keep checking the CSU alumni website for updates.

Jamie November 23, 2007 at 6:04 a.m.

Hi Renee,

Only you will be able to make that decision. I would explore each school(s) websites and reviews given by graduates and current students. All the schools you mentioned are properly accredited, so now it's just deciding which school fits your needs and budget. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

khan November 24, 2007 at 8:27 a.m.

Hi Jeff

I would like to study BSIT majoring Network Engineering/Management but I could not see any major. Does CSU really have any major in IT or it is just a general IT degree?

Jamie November 25, 2007 at 4:46 a.m.

Khan,

In addition to Jeff's advice, CSU offers the following degree programs in IT:

1) The Bachelor of Science Degree in Information Technology
2) Bachelor of Science Business Admin w/ IT concentration
3) MBA Concentration in E-Business and Technology

Texas November 26, 2007 at 4:13 p.m.

I just checked with the Texas Department of Education and Columbia Southern University is on their approved list as far as Distance Education goes. In the state of Texas it’s a crime to list a degree on a employment application from a diploma mill. I would encourage anyone living in the state of Texas or anyone trying to secure employment in Texas to check with the Texas Department of Education to see if their Online Degree program is approved. Better yet check with your States Department of Education to see if CSU meets their approval on degree granting authority. Let the buyer beware!!!

Lynda November 27, 2007 at 5:06 p.m.

Does anyone know if CSU's low tuition rates will increase (severely) once they receive Title IV access?

Jamie November 27, 2007 at 9:45 p.m.

Hi Lynda,

I have not heard of anything regarding tuition increases due to gaining Title IV access.

Jamie November 28, 2007 at 7:25 p.m.

Here's some info from the DETC website regarding regional and national accreditation:

What is the difference between National and Regional accreditation?

Like the regional accrediting agencies, the DETC Accrediting Commission is reviewed periodically by the U.S. Department of Education to make certain that it meets the criteria for federal recognition as published in Title 34 of the Code of Federal Regulations. This recognition criteria is the same for national accrediting agencies and regional agencies. One difference between regional and national accreditation is that national accreditors have a single specialization, such as continuing education and training, distance education, independent colleges, etc. whereas regional accreditors do not. DETC, for example, specializes in accrediting distance learning institutions—those are the only institutions DETC accredits. Regional accrediting bodies evaluate both distance education and "traditional" resident colleges and universities.

Some people still believe regional accreditation is the “only” or “best” type of accreditation. This is simply no longer true. National accreditation—from a recognized agency like the DETC—has the same high standards and USDE and CHEA recognition. Distance learning schools enjoy DETC accreditation because the DETC is the oldest and most experienced distance learning institution accreditor. DETC offers many services to its member schools and is active in educating its institutions and the public about quality distance education. We believe this bias toward regional accreditation will continue to diminish with time.

Some DETC schools are also accredited by regional accrediting agencies. Accreditation is a voluntary process, and schools decide whether to apply to the DETC, a regional agency, or both.

Carol Griffiths, the Acting Director of the Accreditation and State Liaison of the United States Department of Education composed a letter in August 2007 confirming that DETC meets the exact same standards as all other recognized agencies.

Jamie November 28, 2007 at 10:11 p.m.

CSU will be offering financial aid to its students in the very near future. Read the article below:

Columbia Southern University Selects Regent
Online University Applying to Process Federal Financial Aid for the First Time

Frederick, Maryland, October 22, 2007 - Regent Education, the leading provider of financial aid management software solutions for higher education institutions, today announced that Columbia Southern University (CSU) has selected Regent Enterprise as its financial aid management solution.

Columbia Southern is one of the first 100% online universities to benefit from the elimination of the 50/50 rule, enabling the University to apply for approval with the Department of Education to make federal financial aid available to its students. This will significantly increase financial aid options and make it easier for CSU students to attend and afford college. The growth of CSU validates the increasing demand and maturity of online learning programs as an alternative for students.

“We selected Regent Enterprise because it is flexible and can meet the needs of our non-traditional, completely online university,” said Robert Mayes, Jr., CSU President. “At Columbia Southern University, our mission has always been to provide our students with personalized service. Regent Enterprise will be an important factor that will assist us in our mission. ”

Columbia Southern University was founded by Dr. Robert Mayes in 1993 to meet the demand for formal education in the safety and environment fields. Since then, CSU has been accredited by the Distance Education and Training Council (DETC), has received approval from the Veterans Administration and DANTES, and has become an Academic Partner of Delta Air Lines. Over the years, CSU has established more than 100 partnerships with corporations, municipalities, police departments, fire departments, and unions. One such partnership is with the Boeing Corporation, and most recently, Regent Education. In 2005, CSU was honored to be one of the select Universities to participate in the Army’s Centralized Tuition Assistance Program, GoArmyEd. Today, CSU offers online associate degrees, undergraduate degrees, graduate degrees, a doctoral degree, and undergraduate and graduate certificate programs.

“Regent’s financial aid solution is designed to work with both traditional colleges and universities, and non-traditional, non-standard term universities like Columbia Southern University. We are looking forward to growing with CSU as a partner as this growing field of online education continues to open up opportunities to more and more students,” said Michael Ratti, Regent’s CEO. “I am pleased to welcome CSU into the Regent family.”

Jamie December 4, 2007 at 12:51 a.m.

Hi Steve,

Well, I am being bias by saying you should attend CSU for your Master's in Criminal Justice. CSU is growing expotentially, with a very strong a vibrant alumni association.

I've heard good things about Andrew Jackson University and I'm an adjunct faculty member at Aspen University teaching criminal justice courses.

Personally, my experience at CSU was second to none, with a fantastic student services department always willing to help you out and see that your successful. I had liked CSU's format so much, that after my bachelor's, I pursued my master's at CSU, as well. I was going to actually attend a "bricks and mortar" university with an online presence, but decided to continue my education at CSU and it was a great decision.

I like the Blackboard system that CSU's uses for the online classroom opposed to Moodle, which Andrew Jackson uses and an in-house system that Aspen uses.

CSU's faculty are not only supportive and have the education credentials, but they bring "real world" experience to the table.

You can request to talk with one of several CSU Ambassadors to get a "graduate" perspective. In addition, I encourage you to visit the CSU alumni website, as this will be your support network many years after graduation.

Good luck and let us know what you ultimately decide.

Scott December 6, 2007 at 4:49 p.m.

Here are two easy ways to judge an online school and avoid "Diploma Mills:"

1. Is the school accredited by either a regional or national accreditation association. These associations include:

DETC Distance Education and Training Council
MSA Middle States Association
NEASC New England Association of Schools and Colleges
NCASC North Central Association of Schools and Colleges
NWCCU Northwest Commission on College and Universities
SACS Southwest Association of Colleges and Schools
WASC Western Association of Schools and Colleges

2. Is the school a member of the Servicemembers Opportunity Colleges (SOC), listed by the Defense Activities for Non-Traditional Education Support (DANTES), or have programs approved by the VA for use with GI Bill? If the answer is yes to either of these questions, you can bet they are NOT a diploma mill. In other words, don't judge online colleges and universities by their cover -- the building or address. Judge them by their associations -- the accreditation(s) -- they keep.

Sharon December 6, 2007 at 8:22 p.m.

To whom it may concern:

I can not believe that anyone would waste the money, time, and effort to complete a degree program that has not been accredited by a regional associtaion. Its just beyond my understanding.

Jamie December 6, 2007 at 11:56 p.m.

Sharon,

To expand on my last response, your comment(s) of how you can't believe that people would waste their money, time and effort on a non-regional school is highly judgemental and could be viewed as extremely offensive by over 140 million graduates from DETC institutions throughout the world. I personally take offense to your comments being that I've earned by bachelor's and master's at a DETC institution (CSU).

If you want to start bashing accreditors, I could write you a thesis on the negative issues surrounding regional accreditation and the current events surrounding them and their schools, but I don't, because I do not judge schools based solely on who they are accredited by, so long as they are accredited by a recognized accreditor.

I make my anaylsis of a school based on several factors, including recognized accreditation, student satisfaction, academic rigor, recognized faculty, affordability, flexibility and alumni success, just to name a few.

The DETC has nearly a decade of professional experience and background in accrediting ONLY distance education, yet you believe the DETC is a "waste." I am sorry you feel that way, but know that your opinion is not accurate and many DETC graduates would, and do, resent your comments.

Based on just this site's online poll (Online Degree Reviews), you'll see that based on 488 reviews by online college students over the past 15 months, which include 321 colleges 1069 programs, Columbia Southern University is the #1 top ranked school. And guess what, CSU is DETC accredited, beating out all the other regionally and nationally accredited schools. And this is an unbias site, dedicated to students and graduates personal experiences with their respective school(s), which I believe holds volumes over other ranking systems.

Jeff December 7, 2007 at 2:25 a.m.

Sharon,

Try a course at CSU then come back and tell us what you think. Also try doing some more research on this topic. I did and I must admit I found it very hard to understand. So I decided to try a class with CSU and I have found CSU to be better than the regional accredited school I did my undergraduate studies with.

Jamie December 8, 2007 at 6:05 a.m.

I believe a current student by the name of Stephanie Carlson was pursuing the MBA in Hospitality and Tourism Management. You can read about her experience on the CSU website under "student/graduate spotlight."

http://www.columbiasouthern.edu/facesofc...

Jamie December 10, 2007 at 5:13 p.m.

Eric,

Your incorrect and it's the assumption of what people think. Most people don't even understand the accreditation process, let alone "they most commmonly mean regional accreditation." Just because the Harvard's and Stanford's are regionally accredited does not blanket all schools under the same "Ivy League' quality.

Regardless of your statement the facts remain that CSU is nationally accredited by the DETC, which is recognized by the U.S. Department of Education and CHEA, just like the regionals.

If you want to go that route then lets say that the DETC is the most widely recognized form of accreditation for distance learning. And, the DETC is the ONLY recognized accreditor that specializes in accrediting distance learning institutions. And, they've been doing it for over 80+ years. And, they accredit each class offered by DETC schools, whereas regionals only accredit the institution as a whole. And, the DETC accredits the entire institution. And so on, and so on.....I could go write about this for days.

The bottom line is if you want to rely on someone's ignorance on what recognized accrediation is about then you're not really using any form of education and/or research to substantiate your conclusions. Instead, do some research about what accreditation is really about and the next time you run across someone who thinks regional accrediation is the "most widely recognized form" you can educate them on the topic.

Jamie December 11, 2007 at 5:13 a.m.

Excellent points as well, Walter!

To answer your question, I don't think you'll see any expansion on CSU's degree programs for time being. CSU's academic department has been heavily focused in preparing for Title IV eligibility, which in itself is a grueling accrediation process to go through and takes quite a bit of effort to get granted the approval from the federal government.

Jamie December 11, 2007 at 5:01 p.m.

Eric,

No ruffling attended, just opinionated discusssion, which is a good thing.

From the DETC website:

"The sine qua non of an institution’s quality is not if its credits transfer: this is a false premise. The fact that regionally accredited colleges refuse to accept credits from another school because it is not regionally accredited flies directly in the face of national policies advocated by American Council on Education (ACE), the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers (AACRAO), Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA), et al. The real issue here has less to do with the academic quality of the sending institution, and more to do with anti-competitive business practices of the receiving institution."

And, for those who wanted to transfer from a DETC school to an RA school, 70% were successful. You also have to understand that not all RA credits are transferable to RA schools.

For those that just make blanket statements of distance learning being a "scam" or "diploma mill" need to catch up to the times. They are speaking from pure ignorance and have no understanding of what distance learning is about.

So long as the school is accredited (regional or national) you should not have any real issues with having your degree accepted by potential employers. There have been a few select situations which required an RA degree, so you need to make sure that a DETC institution will fit your needs.

Walter December 12, 2007 at 1:07 a.m.

OK, let’s name some schools she’s referring to that educate through distance education: Cornell University, Villanova University, Brigham Young University (by the way they’ve applied for DETC accreditation for their DL degrees), Harvard University, Penn State University, California State University, National University, Drexel University, Georgia Southern University, Philadelphia University, Regents University, University of Maryland and the list goes on and on and on! Ivy League Colleges, Division I Universities and one is the fourth largest public university in the country (84,000 students). Over half listed have AACSB (top tier business school recognition) accreditation on top of their RA accreditation. So, is this individual saying these schools are DMs? I think not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’ve also called admission’s offices and a lot state they’re referring to accreditation recognized by the CHEA or DOE. Furthermore, did you know you can go directly to the college within the university for transfer of credit? For example, the admissions office may say your credits won’t transfer but the college of business’ dean may say otherwise! DETC has had great success getting credits transferred to RA schools. Example concerning transferring credit: Thomas Edison State College will transfer DETC credits through the portfolio assessment process. Let’s start basing more on educational fulfillment and less on educational status! Thanks!

Jeff December 12, 2007 at 6:08 p.m.

I am about half-way through my second class with CSU and I want to take this opportunity to have anyone that doesn’t feel online learning has the academic rigor that the regional accredited schools have, they need to take one class with CSU to see for themselves. CSU has very high standards on academics and its no “Diploma Mill” or a “Scam” I assure you.

Jamie December 16, 2007 at 12:43 a.m.

JoJo,

CSU's undergraduate criminal justice program is right on par with traditional brick and mortar schools. I'd even say you might find yourself more challenged at CSU, which is a good thing.

As for financial aid, don't quote me, but I'd say early next year (2008) you'll see financial aid at CSU.

Jamie December 16, 2007 at 5:46 p.m.

JoJo,

As for Andrew Jackson University, I've heard good things and they are DETC accredited. But, I believe CSU is more dialed in when it comes to student statisfaction, support and alumni services.

Jamie December 17, 2007 at 9:25 p.m.

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions about distance education.

You are exactly right in that there is no real difference in learning via online and/or through the traditional classroom setting. There are many studies that have proven distance education is on par with traditional schools (No Significant Difference) and the most telling study of all is the satisfaction and success of the graduates from distance learning institutions.

As for Columbia Southern University being the most active on this site, it may be because of CSU's popularity among students and graduates. CSU is ranked as the #1 online school here on Online Degree Reviews and this didn't happen by accident.

Timothy December 19, 2007 at 8:38 p.m.

Distance education started in the 1800s with a for-profit school developed by Sir Isaac Pitman for rural residents in Bath, England. Correspondence classes became an alternative for people needing education or training who were not able to attend or did not have access to a traditional program. There have been many notable instances of early distance education playing a major role in people's success; for example, in the 1920s Edwin Shoemaker took a correspondence course in drafting and co-developed the La-Z-Boy recliner, which started an entire industry.
Following correspondence courses delivered by mail, radio became the next delivery vehicle, and it is still commonly used in developing regions where access to the phone or Internet is limited. Instructional television became common in the 1950s and 1960s and, like radio, is still in use. While instructional television never achieved the success anticipated in those decades, arguably the most successful offshoot has been the very popular Sesame Street-type shows and the cable in the classroom programs for children. And certainly, television is still a delivery vehicle in the sense that educational videotapes are still being produced.
As computers became more widespread, computer-based training (CBT) distributed on CD-ROMs became common. Web-based delivery followed in the 1990s. John Chambers, chief executive officer (CEO) of Cisco, predicted in 1999, that "Education over the Internet is so big it is going to make e-mail look like a rounding error." This growth, while not as rapid as predicted, has been fueled by travel reductions, by the increased need for professional development in the workplace, and by perceived cost reductions.

Jeff December 21, 2007 at 12:17 a.m.

To Who Cares and Who Cares II,

Just take a class with CSU and then let us know.

who cares III cont. December 21, 2007 at 2:06 a.m.

...continued from above

Also, I recieve $4,500 a year in Army tuition assistance to attend almost any public or private college in America. I have recieved a B.A. from the Norwich U and currently working on my M.A. at AMU.

I've talked to U of Alabama Birmingham and plan on entering their Ph.d program in about a year. Well, I also have $26,000 in my Montogomery G.I. Bill that I haven't touched yet because I've used the $4,500 TA I get from the Army (and a couple other military scholarships to offset tuition on the couple occasions where I ran out of Army TA before the fiscal year ended) to pay my tuition. Well, since I'll be out of the Army when I start my Ph.d, I'll just kick in my G.I. Bill and would have earned three degrees from respected schools and not owe one red cent in college loans etc.

So, who cares II, its not "plain and simple".

By the way, to all the CSU students/alumni, enjoy your studies and I'm really impressed with the comments on this site. Too bad you guys have to deal with so many trolls. I hope your school visits this site and maybe apply for RA to maybe keep some of the trolls away. Study hard.

Dante December 22, 2007 at 1:48 a.m.

"US Army you can recieve a commission to become a US Army officer as long as the degree is from a regionally accredited school no matter the delivery method"

Who cares III,

Are you saying the US Army will not accept a degree from a nationally accredited school to give a commission to become a US Army officer? If so, then that leaves out CSU. Apparantly the RA and NA debate is still in play when it comes to transfer of credit and employment.

CSU sounds like a good school from the responses it has received. Is someone with a degree from CSU going to be overlooked for employment for someone with a degree from an RA school?

Here you go: December 22, 2007 at 3:14 a.m.

US Coast Guard:

Educational Qualifications:
Reserve Commission Applicants must be in their senior year at or hold a baccalaureate or higher degree from an accredited college or university with a cumulative GPA of 2.5.

Temporary Commission Applicants (active duty Coast Guard personnel E-5 and above with at least four years of active duty in any Armed Forces) must have a Baccalaureate or higher degree from an accredited college or university

Jeff December 24, 2007 at 3 p.m.

I was in the same situation as you were in CONCERNED, but I did some research on that "RA"vs."NA" and even though I really did not understand it that much I went ahead and took a my first class with CSU to see what it was like. All I can say is "I am glad I did"!!. CSU has strong academic standards. I have had to work harder than I had to at my "RA" University. I am working on my Masters Degree with CSU in Criminal Justice Administration and I am in my second 3 hr course. Thus far every concern that I have had has been completely resolved, my employer will accept my degree. CSU is recognized by the US Dept of Education with D.E.T.C. Accredititation.

But let me suggest you do this, give CSU a call and talk to one of their admissions people and let them know of your concerns. But I would encourge you to try a course or two and judge for your self. Also go to the CSU web site and contact a Jamie Gauthier he is the CSU Alumni President, he will beable to give some information on your concern about the "RA vs. "NA" concern you have. He also visits this web site often. Anyway good luck on your educational pursuit and Merry Christmas!!!

Jamie December 24, 2007 at 10:08 p.m.

To Future Educators,

Each state has their own requirements for teaching. I live in California and have secured adjunct professor positions at two universities and one local community college. The community college is RA. My NA bachelor's and master's from CSU was readily accepted for the teaching position. In addition, being that I have a master's degree, I now do not have to get my teaching credentials to teach at the college. I'll be assisting in developing their online degree programs.

The two universities that I teach at are NA accredited (Aspen University and Henley-Putnam University). I am also a part of HP's student qualification and retention committee.

So, if you're looking at securing a teaching position at a top research university, you're probably going to have some challenges in getting those types of positions. You'd probably even be better to go to a physical campus and earn your degree the traditional way and not go the online route.

You need to do your homework before you enroll into any school and know you're ultimate goals for earning your degree(s). If you're trying to land a tenure track professor position at a research university, attend a traditional research type school. If you want your degree for promotional advancement and educational value a DETC school is great. If you want to teach at the adjunct level check your state requirements. California readily accepts DETC degree(s) for adjunct positions. You can also read an article I wrote for the DETC pertaining to DETC graduates securing teaching positions:

DETC News - Fall 2006 - Inspired by Distance Educaiton

http://www.detc.org/downloads/2006_DETC_...

Walter December 27, 2007 at 5:45 a.m.

OK! Let’s take it a bit further, and say no online degree can compete with a B&M degree. No, let’s go even further and say no Non Ivy League degree can compete with these degrees period! Now, I’m assuming these statements will bring out various responses: the degree is only one equation and shouldn’t exclude the individual’s abilities, determination, motivation and intellectual maturity. I guess this only applies to RA accreditation not NA accreditation. It‘s called a CASTE system or status system in my book because it holds no merit beyond speculation. Why, because the USDOE and CHEA state otherwise, and they’re the overseers. I’m starting to believe what one poster stated earlier; defending CSU accreditation line by line will bring down its achievements in general. There’s more than enough information on this site to validate or discredit either side’s opinion. Another post won’t change anyone’s opinion either way! Bottomline, either you’re concern with intellectual advancement or recognition. These are the motivating factors that drive most individual’s position concerning the accreditation topic. Go to Northcentral’s site and you’ll see the same discussion, but most are attacking their ability to teach in an academic setting. Most employers recognized RA and NA degrees! Weather it’s RA or NA, it’s only the first tier if you’re looking at certification. Example; teachers need specialized cert’s (accreditation) on top of RA accreditation. Doctor’s need specialized cert’s (accreditation), as well as accountants, and lawyers. That’s why Jamie stated you must do your homework because even if it’s RA accredited, it better be ABA accredited also if you want to be a lawyer in Virginia. Thanks!

Jamie December 27, 2007 at 6:30 a.m.

High School Teacher,

You're inaccurate and broad statement of "NA degrees will not compete with RA degrees in the work place...." is way off base and not substantiated with any facts.

Show me any DETC graduate that is currently in the employment line because their degree was NA accredited or that they got "beat out" by another candidate with an RA degree. The majority, it not all, DETC graduates have success stories to share about how their education was valuable, rigors and recognized by their employers.

People are trying to establish a competitive advantage with online degrees, especially with the fact that because of online degree programs, there are more people earning degrees at a faster rate than ever before. With more people earning degrees, the simple fact that you have a degree is less impressive than from years ago. So, this is where pretentiousness is now starting to become more common with the ridiculousness of, "My RA degree is more valuable than your NA degree." This sounds like juveniles fighting in a playground over who has the better toy. If you're trying to make yourself sound more competitive with this thought process, your RA degree didn't really educate you all that well.

It makes me laugh because you now see people with RA degrees competing with other RA degree holders, like the fact that their school has specialized accreditation like ACBSP. And then next person will say, “Well, my degree is AACSB accredited (which people believe is higher than ACBSP). You have engineers competing with schools that have ABET accreditation verses engineering schools that are not. You have law schools that are ABA accredited and those that are not. Are the graduates from any of these schools better than the others just based on the accreditation status of the school? I think the graduates like to think they are, but it really falls upon the individual, not how many accreditations the school has established. You’ll then get, “Well, I went to an Ivy League, so your RA, AACSB, ABA, ABET accredited school doesn’t hold a candle to my school.” Ahh, pretentiousness at its best!

As Walter indicated, don't hang your coat tails on the fact that your degree is RA verses NA accredited or vice versa. This is very shallow minded and won't get you very far in this world. Successful people don't work about this and focus on true success attributes such as persistence, motivation, individual abilities, intellectual knowledge, networking, creating opportunities, ect.

AL30 December 28, 2007 at 3:42 a.m.

Hi,

I am MBA student with CSU, I just completed my first course with CSU, and it was great! I decided to take a class with CSU because I am in the Coast Guard and the classes are affordable. I have attended and graduated from Excelsior College, which happens to be RA. I decided to attend a NA college because it fitted my career path and the jobs I would like to pursue after the military.

Now, you cannot become a primary grade teacher (grades p-k to 12th grade) without a RA degree. This is why I decided to attend Excelsior College for my undergraduate degree. All the states I talked to Connecticut, New York and most states in the Northeast require a RA degree for teaching primary grades. I decided after speaking with teachers and doing volunteer work that I did not want to become a teacher. This choice allowed me to pursue my master’s degree at any college without worrying about the whole accreditation thing.

I know that most employees do not care where you degree was from as long as you have the experience to back it up. In addition, government, state, and other agencies only require that your degree be accredited. Therefore, that leaves thousands of jobs for people to compete.

I really just wish that we could stop focusing on the accreditation part and focus on the schools themselves. There are literally thousands of people who are CEO’s, presidents, etc who have graduated from both RA and NA schools. Why can’t we just get along?

Al30 December 28, 2007 at 10:09 p.m.

Jamie,

You are so correct in that we need to educate people about DETC degrees. However, in my state (New Jersey) you have to have a undergraduate degree from a RA school with a GPA of 2.75 to become a teacher. If you have a master degree you need to have a GPA of 3.0 and it has to be in the subject you would like to teach. New York is even harder to become a teacher.

I am not argue with you at all Jamie. I love CSU and my experince has been great! However, for elementary teaching you need a RA degree. California is different and that is great. After I complete my MBA maybe I will inquire about college teaching. Jamie thank you for all that you do for the alumni and student body of CSU.

AL30 December 29, 2007 at 3:40 a.m.

High School Teacher,

Sadly, that is how it is in a lot of states. I wa speaking to a friend who teaches in Oregon. She has to complete her masters degree as well. She wanted to attend a DETC school but Oregon will not accept it. The only online degrees that accept our RA schools. She has to earn her master degree within 15 years. She teaches 1st grade and I do not see why she needs a masters degree. However, the degree will help with her pay.

As I mention before I like CSU and believe that it is a great university. I do not see why you can teach at a university or a community college with a DETC degree but you can not teach k-12 with the same degree. Hopefully, as time continues other states will follow California and allow you to teach rather the degree is RA or NA. High School Teacher I wish you all the best as you look for a degree that will meet your needs.

University Watcher December 29, 2007 at 1:42 p.m.

Whats the matter Jamie? When someone makes a valid argument against DETC accreditation you say nothing. Maybe, just maybe online degrees are just not as good as the RA degrees.

Walter December 29, 2007 at 4:51 p.m.

University Watcher,

Did you know some RA degrees may not work in these States either? Specialized accreditation(Teacher's accreditation) comes into play in most cases. RA or NA accreditation is the first step and specialized accreditation (ABA etc.) follows. The accreditation process starts with State approval, RA or NA accreditation follows and lastly, specialized accreditation. States requiring RA accreditation could require NA accreditation. Some online professors/researchers are stating online universities may want to require their programs to have DETC cert.’s also. DETC specializes in distances education along with institutional accreditation, and RA specializes in institutional accreditation with distance learning added. All must meet the same standards required by USDOE and CHEA! Thanks!

Jeff December 30, 2007 at 3:58 p.m.

I am a student at Columbia Southern University. I am very satisfied with my experience thus far. I don't and most likely will never understand this “RA" vs. "NA" Accredititation debate. But I do however agree with what Jamie has said "An education is what you make of it." To all the critics of DETC degrees: Just take a couple of classes with CSU and see for yourself. The academic rigor is 2.5 times what you will find at a "RA" school. I received my undergraduate degree at a “RA” school and when I look back, the academics are more challenging with CSU. Columbia Southern University has high academic standards and is the leader when it comes to distance learning. Why do you think CSU has “RA” schools wanting to partner with them? Do you think that it may be due to CSU being the leader when it comes to online learning and a lot of people are going this route to earning a College Degree because of their work and family commitments? I firmly believe that the two questions can simply be answered with a “YES”. I am a Columbia Southern University student and I am proud of it. When I finish my degree with CSU it will hang on my wall with my “RA” degree.
Also to Jamie and Walter,
I appreciate all you guys do in setting the record straight to uninformed people when it comes to this “RA” vs. “NA” debate. I also agree that this has been debated far too long. I wish more CSU students would visit this forum and tell how their experience has been with CSU.

Real December 30, 2007 at 7:03 p.m.

University Watcher,

You are right in your own world! Good luck in your effort to understanding the best and most valuable word "EDUCATION". If you think education comes only when the institution in accredited regionally "RA" please pursue your way...

FYI: Most of the “RA” accredited institutions are at very sub-par compared to most other.... If someone considers something is sub-par the best solution.... to go to the best of the best institutions.... not just RAs...

Walter December 31, 2007 at 2:22 a.m.

Thanks Jeff!

I've attended both B&M RA schools, online RA schools and DETC schools, and make a very comfortable salary with my DETC degree! I say again, in most situations you will have no problem getting a job with either RA or NA degrees! Most employers’ primary concerns, whether you perform at the level hired, and this validates your degree. There are powers that wish to do away with accreditation period! Attacking recognized accrediting agencies helps validate their cause not RA or NA accrediting agencies. Why, because if DETC degrees are sub-par and RA/NA agencies receive recognition from the same places (USDOE & CHEA), your saying they validate sub-par agencies. (That's why GM response to all complaints; Cadillac, Chevy, Pontiac etc.) Whether you’re a business or law major, you should understand this concept. Heck, anybody should understand this concept! Thanks!

Want to attend January 1, 2008 at 10:01 p.m.

Here is my update with CSU. I am now signing up for my third class. Rest assure this University is not a pay and get a degree school. The course work is not easy but is manageable. For anyone who is thinking about attending CSU I do recommend it, but be ready to work for your degree.

University Watcher January 2, 2008 at 1:29 a.m.

Simply Stated;

REGIONALLY ACCREDITED (the highest form of college accreditation USA). What does REGIONALLY ACCREDITED mean? When employers ask if you have an “accredited” degree they commonly mean a “regionally accredited” degree. Regionally accredited degrees enjoy wide acceptance for employment purposes and for transfer credit purposes nationwide in the USA. Most state colleges and name brand universities, such as Harvard, Stanford, and Michigan State University are REGIONALLY ACCREDITED.

Jamie January 2, 2008 at 4:52 a.m.

University Watcher,

I do agree that the majority of state colleges and name brand universities are regionally accredited. This is NOT an indicator of high quality. Harvard actually pushed off regional accreditation for MANY years before finally deciding to get it. The Harvard's, Stanford's and Yale's made a name for themselves throughout the years based on the institution itself, and it wasn't because they were regionally accredited. University of Phoenix and Stanford are both regionally accredited. So, your argument is that UoP and Stanford are the same in academic rigor, quality and recognition? I think we can all come to the same conclusion that this is NOT true.

There is an individual that actually did his doctoral dissertation on the perception factor of employers accepting non-accredited and accredited degree programs. The researcher found that most employers use the term "regionally accredited" loosely, without really knowing what it means and/or stands for. Hence, usually when the employer has not heard of DETC, it doesn't mean it's of a lesser quality based solely on the employers ignorance on the topic. If an employer would ever question DETC's recognition, which would be extremely rare, a simple search can reveal that DETC holds the same recognition as the regionals.

As for transferring to other schools, I have a list of over 300 regionally accredited schools that you can transfer to with a DETC degree. And, the list keeps growing each day with CHEA's HETA program, and the transparency coming to light with the facts showing there is no quality difference between regional and national accreditation.

How about this? Instead of bantering back and forth with your broad statements and the facts I keep providing, please show everyone where it says regional accreditation is the "highest form of college accreditation." I'll tell you what, the two organizations that RECOGNIZE the regionals and nationals (US DoE and CHEA) don't say this. So, that leaves me to believe everyone else who says it is self-promoting some sort of cause without basis and/or substantiated facts.

You obviously don't have a clue as to the current situation with regional accreditation and the U.S. Department of Education. Of course, I don't expect you to, as every comment you make is broad at best, without any facts and/or research to back your conclusions.

Take my advice and do a little bit of homework on the topic, come back, and then will discuss the issue. Until then, I am arguing with an anonymous poster who isn't well versed in the topic.

Walter January 2, 2008 at 4:51 p.m.

Quote from USDOE’s letter:

In order to be recognized by the Secretary, an accrediting agency must demonstrate to the Secretary’s satisfaction that it meets the Criteria for Recognition, which are stated in Federal regulation. The Criteria do not differentiate between types of accrediting agencies, so the recognition granted to all types of accrediting agencies-regional, institutional, specialized, and programmatic-is identical. Only the specific scope of recognition varies according to the type of agency recognized. (End Quote)

What is recognized accreditation?

Accredited agencies must be recognized by either the CHEA or USDOE to be considered recognized under GAAP. Whether we accept this or not, it’s what recognized accreditation is! Employers and educational institutions have the right to accept or reject other institutions. I believe that’s not in question here, but validity of that rejection. In other words, say you reject DETC’s accreditation and the student filed discrimination claims in federal court. The Judge would more than likely question whether the accrediting agency was recognized and what criteria was used for recognition. This would be the same questions asked if one RA school rejected another RA schools accreditation. Each school would be asked to provide supporting documentation to support their stance. I see both sides considering this issue, but must side with the agencies granting recognition. Arguing which accreditation is better is a philosophical debate, not a rational debate. Example; Is Harvard better than Yale? Maybe or maybe not! (Philosophical debate) Are they both accredited by an agency recognized by the USDOE? Yes! (Rational debate)

I was informed by the DETC that both ED and CHEA used precisely the same criteria for recognition and the same evaluation process for each type of agency. In theory, each agency is treated the same by ED.

What is scope referring to?

From my understanding, scope is referring to degrees and programs. In other words, USDOE and CHEA are comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges. DETC degree granting programs follow the same standards as degree granting RA programs. Most individuals fail to realize RA agencies also accredit high schools and vocational schools as does DETC. I believe this is where the misunderstanding comes into play concerning this subject. Thanks again!

Walter January 3, 2008 at 2:15 a.m.

Dear Firefighter!

Excellent! Sounds like your recognition is well deserved!!! Your abilities and skills validate your degree(s) and certifications in my viewpoint!

I pray things workout for you!

Jamie January 4, 2008 at 4:16 a.m.

Firefighter,

Thank you for sharing your success story with everyone. It's nice to finally get back to the business of students and graduates sharing their positive experiences with CSU.

Jamie January 4, 2008 at 10:01 p.m.

Thanks Jeff! I too am a proud graduate of CSU times two (BSBA & MBA). Without my degree(s) from CSU, I would have probably taken me much longer to get promoted, which included a significant salary increase. In addition, I would have never have had the opportunity to become an adjunct professor at two accredited universities and at my local community college.

Before CSU, I was just looking at trying to get a degree. Since graduating, CSU has turned me into a true life long learner and researcher that has benefited me both personally and professionally.

Cybill January 5, 2008 at 2:40 p.m.

Well, after reading much about CSU I think I made the right choice. I was undecided between two online universities but I think that I will start this year my BS in IT at CSU. I am really looking forward to it, as with Mr. Firefighter this will help my career and help me to get where I aimed. Certainly it will not be an easy walk and I will have to keep my motivation and concentration at top levels but knowing what is at the end of it, it will give me the strength to overcome difficult moments.

University Watcher January 6, 2008 at 3:01 p.m.

I took your advice and I have done some research into Columbia Southern University and the DETC. What I have found still leads me to believe that the DETC is just not universally accepted the way RA accreditation is. Whether it’s right or wrong that’s just the way it is for now. I found that the federal government as an employer will accept the DETC Degree as will some state governments. Also I found that some of the RA schools will also recognize the DETC School for transfer credit and for attendance requirements to go to their graduate school. But I also found that a lot of employers view the online learning as the easy way out to earning a degree. I am not saying that this is actually the way it is I am just stating the way some employers see it. I contacted several human resource representatives for several major companies asking them about their degree requirements for employment. Over half of them said that the degree had to be from a “Regional Accredited” University or College and according to the HR reps I talked to have this requirement in the job description. But I also found some employers that don’t really care if the degree is Regionally or Nationally accredited. They did say as long as the degree is accredited by and agency approved by the US Department of Education would be acceptable. Some even told me this is how they have it worded in their job description. So I stand corrected on some points but on the same token some of the points I have made are valid as well. Students pursuing DETC degrees need to research what their long range future goals are with earning a DETC degree to make sure it will fulfill requirements of future employers or Universities they choose to attend.

Walter January 6, 2008 at 7:43 p.m.

Just one more comment!

Just remember, most people (not all) that have problems with DETC online degrees, also have issues with RA online degrees. Why, because both are from the same recognizers (CHEA & USDOE), and are two sides of the same coin (administered online, distance learning standards, proctored exams etc.). Dig a little deeper and you’ll find this prejudice attitude in their viewpoints concerning all online degrees. Example: Although not as good as attending a B&M school, online degrees from RA schools are acceptable! That’s basically saying: Although you’re not well educated, you’re educated enough!

Richard January 8, 2008 at 3:12 a.m.

BYU Applies for DETC Accreditation

In a somewhat surprising move, BYU's Independent Study program has applied for national accreditation from the Distance Education Training Council. BYU is considered a reputable private university and is already regionally accredited. BYU does not accept credits from colleges that are not regionally accredited. However, the school's choice to seek additional DETC accreditation indicates that it is beginning to taking national accreditation seriously.

Richard January 8, 2008 at 8:52 p.m.

The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of the Distance Education Training Council

The Distance Education Training Council (DETC) has been accrediting correspondence schools since 1955. Today, hundreds of distance learning colleges and high schools have been granted accreditation from the DETC. Many graduates from DETC accredited schools have used their degrees to gain promotions or to continue in their studies. But, others have been disappointed to find that their degrees do not hold the same weight as diplomas from regionally accredited schools. If you're considering enrolling in a school that's accredited by the DETC, make sure you get the facts first. Here's what you need to know:

The Good – Approved by the CHEA and USDE

Both the Council for Higher Education Accreditation and the United States Department of Education recognize the DETC as a legitimate accrediting agency.
The DETC has proved itself to have high standards and a thorough review process. You won't find any diploma mills here.

The Bad – Trouble Transferring

The biggest problem with DETC accreditation is that regionally accredited schools don't view it as their equal. While credits from regionally accredited schools may transfer to other regionally accredited schools easily, credits from DETC accredited schools are often looked upon with suspicion. Even some schools with DETC accreditation view transcripts from regionally accredited schools as superior.

The Ugly – A Battle with Regionally Accredited Schools

If you're planning on transferring schools or pursuing additional study, be aware that each school has its own transfer policy. Some schools may accept your DETC credits unconditionally. Some may not give you full credit. Some may reject your transcript completely.

A study conducted by the DETC showed that, of the students who attempted to transfer credits to a regionally accredited school, two-thirds were accepted and one-third were rejected. The DETC blames the rejected credits in part on anti-competitive business practices in higher education. Whatever the case, be aware that rejection is very possible.

A Solution – Plan Ahead

If you want to make sure that your transcript from a DETC accredited school will be accepted when you transfer, make a list of potential transfer schools. Call each one and ask for a copy of their transfer policy.

Another good strategy is to check out the Higher Education Transfer Alliance database (off-site link). Schools in this alliance have agreed to be open to schools with any type of accreditation that is approved by the CHEA or USDE – including the Distance Education Training Council.

Rale January 8, 2008 at 11:34 p.m.

Richard,

Most of your questions/concerns were already answered in the previous debates. It is very evident that you are purely an RA accredited school favoring person (knowing only one side of the world). It looks like most of the persons/questions on the equality of DETC accreditation are very concerned and jealous that DETC accredited institutions provide quality education at very affordable cost and the degrees are recognized by USDoE and CHEA the highest form of accreditation in the USA. If you are capable of challenging… probably get GPA of 4.0 and/or Honors enroll from one of the top DETC accredited institutions… then feel the difference for your self from RA accredited schools… I have my masters from RA accredited school and DETC accredited school… I know what it takes to accomplishing course requirements from DETC accredited school.

Walter January 9, 2008 at 2:05 a.m.

As Rale has stated,

The responses are listed in pervious posts by Jamie, others or myself. This debate has become somewhat disingenuous because of its constant questioning of DETC’s accreditation instead of the school's qualities and abilities. There’s more information about accreditation here than where you pulled the information from (can we say: distancelearn.about)! If we keep debating what’s already been decided, our eyes will not recognize the real threat to education. Some believe accreditation and treatment of unaccredited degrees are clearly unconstitutional, based on the fourteenth amendment "equal protection of the laws clause." This would be a more beneficial debate, but shouldn’t be debated on this forum.

I must ask, what argument can be mustered if the accrediting agencies themselves can’t agree? Either accreditation is universal or it isn’t! You can’t say CHEA and USEOD have validity, but are wrong concerning their views on their accreditation standards. If that’s the case, why join them in the first place? It’s like Penn State’s offensive and defensive lines arguing who's the better football team!

More importantly Mr. Orfanakos situation should be addressed!

Thanks!

Jeff January 9, 2008 at 3:54 p.m.

Jay & Walter,

I am in agreement with both of you!!! As I have stated before I am very proud of my affiliation with Columbia Southern University and I am looking forward to joining the alumni ranks!!!

Jamie January 9, 2008 at 4:27 p.m.

Well put Jay! I couldn't agree with you more. Let's get back to talking about CSU's academic programs and student/graduates experiences.

AL30 January 11, 2008 at 3:04 a.m.

Congrats to the firefighter who was able to get a promotion due to his degree from CSU. Currently, I am in the military and they help pay the cost of my education. As a father of four I find CSU to be very affordable.

My question is for those who are out there not in the military. How has your CSU degree changed your life? I know that Jamie has had a lot of success. I will be leaving the military in six years and wanted to get real people experince. Therefore, if you are not a student or a gradute of CSU please do not respond about the RA vs NA that is a done deal.

Thanks!

Linda January 15, 2008 at noon

I am thinking you guys live in a tunnel of some sort, D.E.T.C. degrees are not even in the same league as the regional degrees. I went thru your post here and I can't even believe what I was reading. I am just shocked beyond comprehension...

Walter January 15, 2008 at 6:01 p.m.

Linda,

All I can say is: CSU MBA and MS graduates are eligible for admission into Northcentral University doctorate programs. Northcentral University (ACBSP) is listed in USNews of Best Colleges and Universities! Maybe CSU students are in a tunnel, but it’s a pretty BIG TUNNEL!!!!!!!!

Jeff January 15, 2008 at 11 p.m.

Yes, Very well put Walter!! Also I agree with Jay; this forum is for is for students and potential student of CSU to ask and answer questions about CSU. And I like wise would highly recomend CSU to anyone wanting to further their education...

Chad January 18, 2008 at 3:42 p.m.

In September 2003, I graduated from Columbia Southern Univerisity with a BS in Criminal Justice. I had completed 90 semester hours with previous Kentucky State Institutions that were "Regionally Accredited" universities prior to transferring my studies to CSU and completing my last 15 courses at CSU. CSU has allowed me to fulfill a dream with a career in law enforcement/courts as a Kentucky State Probation/Parole Officer.

Presently, I have completed 7 Graduate courses at CSU in the MS Criminal Justice Program as well as 5 graduate courses at the University of Kentucky (Social Work)program and 1 graduate course at the University of Louisville (Criminal Justice). I can comment with the greatest confidence, that a degree at CSU is worth just as much as a degree from any other accredited institution. Rote memorization can just about get you through most collegiate exams, but at CSU, there is a strong integration of both open book exams, section essays, an research papers that aid in the learning and retention factor needed to carrying learning forward.

Most of my non CSU courses only required exams and periodic papers in the undergraduate pursuit. However, at CSU, nearly every class has required a scholarly paper in addition to section essay exams and open book exams. I would add that one would think that open book exams would be simple, but most of the exams I have taken required a thorough reading of the texts prior to taking the exam. The mere fact that CSU is accredited by DETC should eliminate the "Regional Accredation" factor as reports indicate DETC to be a tougher accreditor that most regional accreditors.

I have greatly enjoyed my experience at CSU and am greatly looking forward to completing my Masters in June 2008 and attending the 2008 graduation ceremonies.

If I can every be of assistance to anyone contemplating academic coursework at CSU, please do not hesitate to email me at "marschad@netzero.com"

Kindest Regards,
Chad T. Hockensmith
Kentucky State Probation/Parole Officer

MBA in Finance January 26, 2008 at 3:45 a.m.

I am almost done with my degree; the college is okay, what I found is that the faculty (at least in finance specialization) they have no idea what they are teaching and what they try to test. Faculties do not post their bio or have any background to teach the classes assigned. They really need to work in the curriculum in Finance because it really sucks. I have pointed out this to the administration but nothing was done. I guess, it looks that I am the only one that has complained. I don't think CSU is a bad University but certainly needs works in some areas that have neglected specially in the finance specialization. Base on my own experience I cannot say I would recommend CSU, they are better options out there. They do have a strong curriculum for law enforcement though.

CSU Student January 28, 2008 at 5:53 p.m.

To S,

I understand that the coursework is not as rigorous as you thought, but are you actually learning anything?

Jamie January 29, 2008 at 6:05 a.m.

Schools like CSU are independent study programs, so having a professor hold your hand through the process is not something to be expected. Yes, the multiple choice exams are automatically graded, but you'll find this taking unit exams with scancrons at traditional schools. I personally didn't need my professors asking me if I needed help through my courses. When I did have questions, I would contact my professor(s) and would get a detailed and prompt reply. Don't blame your professor if you didn't learn anything. That's up to the student to take the material and learn as much or as little as they want.

Jay January 29, 2008 at 4:24 p.m.

I agree with Jamie and Raju as well. A distance learning program requires a lot of time management and self discipline. One cannot expect to have a professor, regardless of the institution (DL or traditional) to initiate the dialogue of ensuring the students are “learning”. The assumption is that students will engage the professor if concepts aren’t being grasped. During my CSU MBA program, I had absolutely no problems receiving advice, counsel or clarification from any of the professors. Ask questions and be pro-active, not reactive.

Jamie January 29, 2008 at 6:22 p.m.

No, you're not "teaching yourself." What you're doing is following an accredited curriculum and course structure. You're learning is gauged by taking unit exams, discussion board assignments, research papers, course projects and proctored final exams. The professor is there to facilitate and guide you through the course. If you need help, you raise your hand (or in the online world, you pick up the phone and/or send an e-mail). The lectures are being read by the student, instead of being physically presented by the professor. And, there are some classes that are accompanied with video lectures, but not all classes are like that.

And yes, you can go to the library, read a book and teach yourself anything you'd like. I have an uncle who never got a college degree, but is extremely intelligent with all the books he's read and yes, he does pride himself in teaching himself things that interest him. You don't need to sit in a physical classroom to learn. And to elaborate, you don't have to spend a lot of money to receive an education. You can do that for FREE!

Jamie January 30, 2008 at 12:01 a.m.

I too was hesitant when I had enrolled into my first online class at CSU, as I did not know what to expect. But, after the first few classes, I was hooked and realized how great the flexibility and affordability was that CSU offered. I now have my MBA and have considered getting a doctorate. This would have never been possible had I not found a school like CSU.

My Two Cents February 1, 2008 at 4:23 a.m.

I have to put my two cents in. When I received my BA degree many of the classes I took was actually in the classroom. The professor did not teach us much, answered a lot of questions. We had to write a paper, take exams and do a speech. The speech was explaining a chapter in the textbook. I was than expected to answer questions from my fellow students. I got to the point where I could not take it anymore and tried online and have been doing it ever since. Where was my money going? It seems the days of a professor/teacher actually teaching is over.

Lynn February 4, 2008 at 10:06 p.m.

I am a current Columbia Southern University Student studying for my B.S. in Psychology. I have been wondering if CSU has any plans for a Masters Degree Program in Psychology. If anyone has any information about this please respond. I really enjoy CSU and I would recommend any working adult to give it a try...

Jamie February 5, 2008 at 4:37 a.m.

AL30,

Teaching can be a challenging thing to get into especially when your degree(s) were earned by non-traditional means. With that being said, it can be done, but you need to make yourself as competitive as possible.

One of my teaching opportunities came after I had gotten the national outstanding graduate award through CSU and DETC in 2006. I gave a short speech at the 80th DETC Annual Conference. Administrators from another school were at the conference as well and remembered me. I was utlimately hired, where I am now teaching three courses at the school and working part-time on other special projects.

I wrote a published article through the DETC Spring 2006 newsletter regarding DETC graduates securing teaching positions. If you go to the DETC website under "free publications" its still posted online.

My community college gig was connected with our retired police captain taking over the public safety department at the college. He knew of my experience and knowledge of distance education and I got hooked into their adjunct faculty with hopes of assisting them in developing their online programs.

So, don't hold your coat tails on just having a bachelor's and/or master's degree. Get involved with your alma mater, alumni associations, honor societies, writing publications and/or books, volunteering, ect. This will establish you, and not only can you be proud of the degree(s) you've earned, but your alma mater can be proud to have had you as a student with your personal and professional success.

CSU Student February 6, 2008 at 9:44 p.m.

I think CSU is one of the best kept secrets when it comes to online education. CSU needs to advertise more, especially around military bases to gain more name recognition.

Student February 11, 2008 at 8:34 p.m.

Columbia Southern University is a young school. There is no way of "seeing" into the future, but if I could...I would say it looks bright!

Throckmorton February 20, 2008 at 9 p.m.

I'm planning on starting on the Information Technology program with CSU. I have some questions.
1. What are the assignments like Writing, test, group projects?
2. On average how many assignments are there per course?
3. On average how would you rate the difficulty of the CSU classes.

Linda February 25, 2008 at 12:48 p.m.

Throckmorton,

Just don't expct your CSU degree to be as good as a "RA" degree. If you do, your wasting your money and time!!!

Jeff February 25, 2008 at 11:24 p.m.

Linda,

This site is for CSU students, CSU alumni, and potential CSU students to exchange information about Columbia Southern University. The "RA" vs. "NA" debate has been debated into the ground. Please look elsewhere if you want to debate this topic further.

Jon February 29, 2008 at 3:16 a.m.

I know C.S.U. quite well. I live in the area where it is located. I've been familiar with the online college since it was created. I hate to burst the bubble for all of the C.S.U. fans. But while the school may satisfy students It is a privately, family owned enterprise that is more focused on padding the wealth of the owners than providing a top notch education for the students regardless of what the alumni have to say.

C.S.U. offers degree programs that can be valuable for certain career paths. However, It is my opinion that their M.B.A. and other business degrees are basically worthless in the U.S. job market. If you are competing for a job that requires an M.B.A. and you submit your resume´ that touts your M.B.A. from C.S.U., how do you think you would stack up against a competing applicant with an M.B.A. from a major, brick and mortar U.S. university? An M.B.A. from a traditional university will beat one from C.S.U. every time!

I have noticed endless testimonials praising C.S.U. on this site. However, I have found very few if any dissenting opinions on this site. Why is that? I'm sure not everyone has had a positive outcome as a result of attaining a degree from C.S.U.

Since I live in the same community as C.S.U.'s offices and I am familiar with the inner workings of the institution I want to inform you that C.S.U. does not tolerate dissenting opinions from ANYONE. The alumni association along with the school uses their considerable internet prowess to squash dissenting opinions about the online college.

Before enrolling at C.S.U. I suggest you try to visit their offices, a former bait and tackle shop located in Orange Beach, Alabama, a beach resort town.

While the curricula may be legitimate, in my opinion, the way the owners and management run the company is far from ethical.

Front-line employees are quite underpaid. Overtime pay for hourly workers is viciously discouraged.

C.S.U. may be a good choice for students but many of the front-line C.S.U. employees suffer from a culture of fear of being fired.

While the upper management, instructors, and the family owners rake in big bucks, many of the front-line employees can hardly make ends meet with the meager wages they are paid. Never forget this school is a private, family owned enterprise designed to generate wealth for the family owners.

The state of Alabama is an "At will work state" which means C.S.U. employees can be fired without any cause or reason and that happens often. Dissenting opinions are not tolerated.

Tam February 29, 2008 at 2:17 p.m.

I've been reading about CCU & CSU, and I've also been reading comments on their respective review sights. I'm convinced that most who write comments seem to be paid cheerleaders working for these schools. The commenters that post negative comments about CCU & CSU seem to actually know what they are talking about. As for accreditation, RA is the gold standard. If CCU and CSU just got RA accreditation, there would be no argument. What are the profound weaknesses that keeps CCU & CSU from getting RA accreditation? I can't stand reading all of the bickering about some alternative accreditation being equal to RA. It isn't. Never will be. Don't blame the DOE's criteria either. It's not for you to change. The gold standard IS the gold standard and it's RA. Case closed. Seems like the government got tired of being attacked by all you semi-diploma mill schools and appeased you by granting semi-accreditation like DETC.

Tam February 29, 2008 at 2:47 p.m.

Ziad: Me shut-up? You just tangled with the wrong girl. If you want me to keep posting truthful facts that distroy your credibility, keep it up, buster! Get your RA accreditation. If you can't, why not? Go on, tell everyone buddy-boy. Also, all the rest of you posters on this sight need to stop regarding the opposing facts as our mere opinions. (pfew! I'm getting the vapors!)

S March 1, 2008 at 12:11 a.m.

Very interesting...

I recently asked CSU if they are looking at RA in the future and was told they are in discussion with the Southern and Middle states.

Only time will tell...

S March 1, 2008 at 4:30 a.m.

Just to point this out up front, I am neutral on the RA vs NA debate.

Regardless of RA or NA, I do know that as technology increases, adult students with little time to sit in the classroom will turn to online education. Many adult students at the graduate level already have a job and the experience. They simply need the piece of paper to advance in the workplace.

As a government employee, the government will recognize my CSU MBA and is currently paying the tuition. Regardless of the NA stigma, as Tam states, my degree will make me eligible for a much higher position to include a $20K a year pay raise.

Whether I get the degree or not I am still set for retirement. Currently, I have a $28K military pension for the rest of my life and will have another $35K pension plus a 401K and IRA. That doesn't include cost of living raises.

So when I am sitting on my front porch in 20 years and I am 55 years old I can say that I did ok for myself. Oh wait, I still have 7 years until I can get Social Security if it is still around (another $25K+)

RA vs NA, I really don't care

Jamie March 1, 2008 at 6:04 a.m.

Tam,

Well you’re just too convincing. What you say must be true, right?

I've had to do no explaining about CSU's accreditation, period. The stigma is not NA degree(s). The real stigma is online education as a whole. And where do you get off by saying these schools are "great self-esteem builders" or "perceived validation of being educated." Let me tell you something, if you've never attended and/or have graduated from a DETC school than you've got no ground to stand on and your self-proclaimed negative comments mean nothing. I have attended and have graduated from both DETC and RA schools, so I've "been there and done that" and speak from experience.

Sorry, but I don't think that over 140 million graduates from DETC institutions since the 1890s, including military schools have been "ridiculed and rejected." Your ridiculous comments show your lack of education. Good luck in all your future endeavors.

By the way, my CSU degree helped earned me a promotion (and the degree had to be properly accredited), secured teaching positions at three different colleges and universities, became published, offered to help write a book on national security, achieved academic awards, consultant to a start-up company. I could keep going, but I'll stop for the sake of the readers.

Dick March 1, 2008 at 6:34 a.m.

No, Tam. There's only about 20 of these schools and they are graduating 70,000 per year for the past 100 years....LOL.

Walter March 1, 2008 at 2:23 p.m.

Hi Jamie, Jay, and Jeff,

I believe they’re targeting CSU and CCU’s websites because both are receiving 9.0 or more ratings from their students/graduates. They’re looking on the forum to see what comments are being posted and responding accordingly, either discrediting or intimidating readers to accepted their viewpoints. They don’t even comprehend it’s not US (forum readers/imputers) but the attendees that rate the particular schools. The school’s attendees decides where the schools overall rating falls, not blog readers. And paid, now that’s funny and disturbing all at the same time. They said the same about me on CCU’s site! Why, because I was asked a question and responded. And I quote;” I wonder how much Walter is being paid by CCU to write all of his garbage. He tells the truth most of the time, but he's selling credibility to alternative accreditation as being equal to RA. It's not, and he needs to quit implying that it is.”

1. Accreditation should be laid to waste because their both recognized by CHEA and US DOE!
2. Furthermore, both schools are listed as PONSI recognized (approved) schools by the New York State Board of Regents. If you don’t know, the State of New York is the only State in the USA (Union) recognized by the USDOE as a degree granting State just like regionals. No other State has ever achieved this status, and by these two schools being recognized, shows they’re definitely not unaccredited by any means.
3. CSU is partnered with about six RA schools.
4. CCU is partnered with about three RA schools.
5. Both are partners with Northcentral University.
6. CHEA HETA schools (over 400+) accept their credits.
7. One of their partners has published over 250 dissertations. (Jamie I’m sure you recognize that’s smoking)

When I posted this information, I was first called a lair (understood without knowledge of the subject matter) but later called a garbage writer. (Understood without the capability to comprehend the subject matter) I’m done with responding, it’s a waste of my time and effort! It takes away from people with actual inquires about online education and topics. They should be addressed not these guys! Thanks!

Walter March 2, 2008 at 3:03 a.m.

Hi Jeff,

I will continue to voice concerns when clarification is required, but arguing for the sake of arguing is counterproductive. As Jamie has reiterated, information about these topics are readily available. These meaningless exchanges are a waste of my (and their) time and effort! These people aren’t interested in progression but regression. Hopefully readers will digest the information on this forum, research the topics accordingly (themselves), and make their own decisions. Thanks!

S March 2, 2008 at 5:08 a.m.

Hey Dick,

Seems like a struck a nerve...

Why attack me I didn't do anything to you or say anything about you. Or are you just a Dick, Dick?

Just so you know I served in the military and have fought for my country (Both Gulf Wars and then some). While you slept safe in your bed with sugar plums dancing in your head, I was deployed for over six years in combat zones. I have put bombs on target that killed a lot of bad guys who wanted to fly planes into our buildings. What have you done lately for your country besides pay your taxes... Maybe those who call themselves,real Americans (Dick), should step up to the plate and take swing at terrorism or is your blue collar job a safe bet so you can be home for dinner at 5pm.

Sounds like you're a little disappointed with your life. Maybe you should think about serving your country instead of bad mouthing it and serving yourself.

Oh by the way, you are making my house payment too.

Thanks Dick

Dick March 2, 2008 at 7:05 p.m.

Hey S:

As for your salary, thanks for explaining double taxation when you didn't even know you were doing it...LOL. You have zero place trying to explain what's going on economically.

Anyway, thanks for exposing what you really are. My job is done. I'm now through wasting my time on you. Go ahead and get the last word in.

Jay March 2, 2008 at 8:30 p.m.

Since I made the challenge - I’ll put my cards on the table. I have attended classes with the University of Maryland, Central Texas College, Jefferson State Junior College, Wallace State Community College, University of Alabama Birmingham and lastly, “The School of Hard Knocks” (ha ha). I obtained a BS in Computer Sciences / Information Systems and an MBA in Project Management from CSU. They (CSU) helped me put everything together and assisted me in a straightforward approach to fulfilling my educational pursuit. I have worked for General Dynamics (Systems Analyst), Computer Sciences Corporation (Senior Systems Engineer), Northrop Grumman (Geospatial Engineer) and currently with L-3 Communications (Senior Geospatial Engineer). L-3 paid a large part of my MBA and our HR department was completely satisfied with CSU and their accreditation. I live in Germany, and people with an MBA are in high demand here. I acquired my MBA in pursuit of a career change because at my age, I would like to take on the challenges of a project management position. Also, to apply what I learned with CSU in my MBA program. At present, I am currently negotiating with Siemens and a couple other German firms. I was in the US Army 12 years, which helped me tremendously with training and becoming mature. Incumbent, I have worked hard to get where I am and with my experience and knowledge, will always sincerely help others.

Tam March 2, 2008 at 11:47 p.m.

In my prior post, I asked for folks to post the challenges CSU grads would face with a less than universally accepted degree. Sounds like it's all just wonderful. We all know that isn't true.

As for this "S" guy. What is your problem? Leave it alone. I'd feel sorry for you if you had to get out there without the government on your side, and your ideas on economics are way off. If the government pays you, then you pay taxes, that's a double hit. Anyway, forget you.

I have a friend that got a diploma from an online source. Accredited the same as CSU. She is having all kinds of problems. She can't get anyone to accept her credits and can't get anyone to even take her seriously. She has even taken it off of her resume. But, everyone else here seems to be doing just fine. Why is she having so many problems?

S March 3, 2008 at 12:44 a.m.

Tam & Dick,

Say what you will but I done debating your worthless efforts. There I put an X on my back go ahead and attack...

Jay March 3, 2008 at 8:50 a.m.

Hi Walter. I agree with you that online classes tend to have more one on one support. I also think that because most interaction between the student and professor are through email, the method of communication is clearer and explanations can be read over again or archived for future reference.

In my opinion, I do see it is necessary to have both (B&M and DL) approaches for students. For example, I do not think the DL approach is good for recent HS graduates with little to no relevant work experience, maturity or self discipline (Please note I’m not implying all younger folks are that way). The B&M approach teaches them not only their course work, but influences behavior such as responsibility, promptness and meeting deadlines. It also may permit them to make contacts in different arenas that assist in entering the job market after graduation.

The DL approach seems better for working professionals or adults with other responsibility and less free time. I learned through the DL approach that my retention was better and I learned more because I could schedule my studies at a time where nothing else was interfering and allowed me to concentrate and stay focused on my work. That was a big advantage! I remember so many nights and weekends attending a class where I was both dead on my feet and struggling to stay focused or having unforeseen circumstances make me late or unable to attend the class. In summary both approaches are good and provide a viable means for individuals to obtain higher learning.

As far as accreditation and credit transfer goes, I think the US should take the approach the Germans have when transferring from one school to another. The student (regardless of which school they are coming from) must interview with the head professor of the school program they desire to transfer to. That professor makes the determination whether or not the student is proficient and can transfer credit from the other school. That would knock out a lot of this ridiculous discussion about the “gold standard of accreditation” and force the student in a position to “put up, or shut up” about what they LEARNED.

Jeff March 4, 2008 at 3:29 a.m.

Tam,

As far as debating you on the topic of CSU limitations I won't do that. But I will tell you that I work for the public school system where I live and prior to me enrolling with CSU I asked my HR represenitive about CSU and its DETC Accredititation and I was told that if the US Department of Education approved of DETC then they saw no reason why they shouldn’t. So, Tam my employer accepts degrees from DETC schools as well as the "RA" schools.

Tam March 4, 2008 at 5:17 p.m.

I believe it helps to already be employed with a company to get your company to accept an NA degree. In other words, get hired, THEN go for your degree(s). Getting hired from the outside is a REAL CHALLENGE if all you have is an NA degree on your resume. I know ya'll will list all of the "success stories", but I'm completely sure the rejection stories out number them by a wide margin. NA grads: Get ready for a tough road if your job hunting in Texas. Other states as well.

Walter March 5, 2008 at 1:16 a.m.

Now, please let the CSU students/alumni have back their site! Most of the accreditation issues have already been addressed in pervious postings. CSU's one of the few blogs that gives creditable information on their degree programs!

Thanks!

Walter

Tam March 5, 2008 at 5:16 p.m.

Oh, I didn't know this was a CSU mutual admiration society used just for blowing smoke up everyones skirts.

BUYER BEWARE!

Enough said. I'm gone. It's all yours now. Adios.

Tam March 6, 2008 at 4:10 a.m.

Jamie & Walter,

You CSU salesmen remind me of the movie "The King of Kong", about the subculture of arcade gamers who spend their lives slithering around game rooms. This NA school subculture is just as sick. No matter what time of day I read your tripe, it feels like it's 3:00 in the morning.

You better give me a better send-off than what I just read from Jamie or I just might hang around.

Tam March 7, 2008 at 3:31 a.m.

I make statements on this forum because you and the others are making bogus statements. Simply put: If anyone believes that CSU is as wonderful and as widely accepted as ya'll state, then P.T. Barnum was right about there being a sucker born every minute.

Jeff March 7, 2008 at 11:41 a.m.

Joe,

Give CSU a chance, try a couple of classes and see what you think. Also talk to a CSU admissions counselor and address your concerns with them. I had a few concerns when I was thinking about working on my Masters with CSU, but I checked with my employer (County School District) and my degree with CSU will be respected and because the US Department of Education accepts the accreditation of a CSU degree I will be eligible for a higher pay grade within my current position with the County School District I work for. I also talked to CSU and did some of my own research to find out some answers that I had questions about. But still being a little concerned about CSU I took my first class and I was totally blown away by the way the admissions staffs professionalism and the professor that I had was very prompt in answering any concerns I had about the class and the material I was studying. Bottom line, Joe take CSU for a Test drive and see if it’s what you want in a online University because only you can decide if CSU will fit your needs.

Jamie March 7, 2008 at 7:24 p.m.

Hi Joe,

I can completely understand your concerns in not wanting to spend thousands of dollars to "try out" CSU. I do know what Jeff is referring to, as I had my hesitations prior to enrolling into CSU, but once I had started, I knew I was at the right place.

What is your hold up on having your doctorate be from an AACSB institution? AACSB is fine and respectable, but its not the "golden key" to being successful after you graduate. If you want to teach at another AACSB school then I'd recommend attending a AACSB school.

If you're true passion is teaching and gaining a tenured track position at a major university, I would recommend staying away from distance education and purusing a PhD at a traditional school and not pursue a DBA. The DBA is a professional doctorate, whereas the PhD is a research based doctorate more on the lines for a professor.

As for CSU's accreditation, they are nationally accredited by the DETC, which is recognized by the U.S. Department of Education and CHEA. I believe CSU will look into regional accreditation later down the road.

Since graduating from CSU I've obtained three adjunct teaching positions. Two of the positions are at DETC schools and the other is at my local community college. CSU definitely got my foot in the door with having the required accredited degree(s), but it was more of me doing publications, professional background and experience that got me into these positions. Some schools require that you have a regionally accredited degree to teach.

I would call CSU and talk with a represetative and/or even talk with the Dean of Student Services. They would be more than willing to address your concerns to see if CSU would be a good fit for you.

Jeff March 7, 2008 at 10:56 p.m.

Jamie & Jay,

Thanks for the back-up! I really appreciate having you guys on this CSU information exchange site.

Walter March 7, 2008 at 11:37 p.m.

And Jeff of course!

Walter March 8, 2008 at 3:46 a.m.

Joe,

Your government rep can settle the RA vs. NA debate with a stroke of the pen. The US DOE and CHEA have both stated NA accreditation and RA accreditation are evaluated utilizing the same guidelines. Only scope (which refers to the level of degrees: Diploma, certificate, BS, MBA, DBA etc.) differs according to their guidelines and evaluation process. Based on this information, congress (state or federal) can ensure that schools except and respect each other’s accreditation based on guidelines from the overseers (US DOE & CHEA). Problem, intrusion into school's rights comes into play. It should be noted, states govern approval of whether or not a college is authorized to grant degrees, not accreditors. Accreditation is voluntary not mandatory, and acceptance from state to state is voluntary. We’re one of the only countries dealing with this issue. Most Countries College’s accreditation is governed by the countries governing educational body. Our educational body (US DOE) has no authority to regulate a college or university’s acceptance of another university’s degree/credits/accreditation. Only the judicial and/or legislative branches are awarded that power through litigation or legislation. I’m unsure whether or not even an executive order could fulfill this requirement. Thanks!

PS: Try Northcentral University

tic tac March 8, 2008 at 5:33 a.m.

This dialog is hilarious... the three Js defending CSU. Columbia Southern... that is a play on the REAL Columbia, the top ranked Columbia. When people ask you where you went I bet you say Columbia and conviently leave out the Southern. LOL

tic tac March 9, 2008 at 12:34 a.m.

It's sad that Enrollment Counselors have to come here and pump up CSUs rating... now that's pathetic!

CSU Student March 12, 2008 at 1:12 p.m.

Tic Tac,

If a DETC\Nationally accredited degree is substandard then explain to me why BYU, Brigham Young University will accept a degree from Columbia Southern University. (look it up for yourself) Also,why would a solid RA school like BYU seek DETC accreditation?

Tam March 12, 2008 at 1:45 p.m.

I've done my research and CSU is denied RA accred for one reason: They aren't up to standard with RA. PERIOD. Makes filling in with all the other accreds sorta worthless, right? As for BYU "seeking" NA accred, so what? Once you're RA, go ahead and pile on the others if you think it'll help sell your school. Again, get RA first. Stacking the deck with non-RA accreds doesn't really mean alot.

tic tac March 13, 2008 at 1:12 a.m.

Walter,

You're trying to look for motivations why BYU would seek further accreditation... Tam is correct. The more you have the better you can sell the school. RA is the more favourable.

Tam March 13, 2008 at 3:55 a.m.

I'm sorry, Walter. I probably made an error about CSU being "denied" RA accred. Perhaps they didn't apply. It doesn't matter. My point still stands.

CSU Student March 13, 2008 at 9 a.m.

tic tac / Tammy are losers that don't have anything better to do than to post negative comments on this site. If you have to talk down on NA accreditation to feel better about your degree(that's even if you have one) then go ahead. Yall are sounding like little kids arguing. Some why don't yall take your RA @sses someone else, and leave this site for real CSU students to post their reviews. Get a life!!! My lord!!!

tic tac March 13, 2008 at 1:54 p.m.

A nice little article about CSU (DECT) and how their credits DON'T transfer much of the time.

http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i08/08a035......

There's the proof... educate yourselves. Of course if you were really interested in that you would have gone to an RA school.

J.R. March 13, 2008 at 8:39 p.m.

In case anyone cares, and because I had a lot of trouble finding any opinions or commentary on-line, I figured I't throw my opinion out there about my experience to date with CSU's on-line MS Occupational Safety. The facts (so that my comments can be viewed in context) are that I've completed one course to date, and did well (got an A). I'll try and note any mitigating circumstances.

Time Commitment: I was able to get through the course in less than 2 months, and put in about 8 hours a week of effort. This is a foundation theory course (3 credit hours), and I am working in the safety field, so none of this was new to me.

Content: As an international student (Canadian), this is my biggest issue with the class. Theory and regulation are not the same. There was far too much US regulation referenced in the course. I won't use this forum to debate the merits or lack thereof of the US regulatory system vis a vis the rest of the world (which thankfully lacks the litigous nature of the US), but this is a Master's of Science, not Arts. More Science, less "regulatory/political science" would be appreciated.

Professor: Very responsive & knowledgeable. Likewise, when I contacted support services, they were all over it like a fat kid on smarties. No complaints here.

On-Line Support & Content: Apparently the course is "new". This was used to explain missing links, conflicting information, etc. Nothing that could lead to failure to complete the course, but definitely caused me greif. I shouldn't pay to debug CSU's course content. Nor was the on-line forums activated. Thus, no "interaction" was possible with other students.

Difficulty: Pretty easy, about 80% of the effort my MBA courses took (from a traditional, well recognized Canadian university). Might have been perceptual based on my work experience to date.

To sum it up, there is opportunity for improvement. I'm committed to trying at least 2 more classes, to see if theory increases and regulatory content diminishes. I also really like the open enrollment, which is far more useful in my life than a cohort, scheduled system would be.

Later all,

Fred March 14, 2008 at 4:48 a.m.

I am working to complete a BS degree and I am consdiering both NA, including CSU and RA programs. While doing some research, I came across this message board and it has been most illuminating.
I can't believe the level of traditionalist elitism that still is out there. Fortunately, it is slowly dying off.

For you, Mr. Tic Tac, educate yourself and look up Antoine Wright, proud alumni of Texas A&M and current NBA player.
He's on record stating that he got a better "education" in high school and he has spoken about his almost fictional major. What do you think the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools and the NCAA have done about this? You guessed it. Nothing. It's all about the $$$$. That's pretty diploma mill-ish.
So, as long as both DETC and RA's have the same US DOE recogntion, the gap is not as wide as some of you folks think.

CSU Student March 14, 2008 at 8:14 a.m.

Good job there tic tac. Hey tic tac, are your arms sore from all of that stretching you're doing? That article is from 2002 back when online education was not as popular. Sorry, but this 2008. Things have changed since then. Nice try there. Now carry on! LOL

tic tac March 14, 2008 at 8:25 a.m.

@Fred

Jocks and cheating... like that is anything damning to the rest of the 99.9% of people who have to bust their azz! Try again freddy... LOL!

Fred March 14, 2008 at 3:27 p.m.

Tic Tac,

Open your eyes. The cheating is done by the institutions, not just the "jock." I like the way you try to deflect the sole responsibility to the student.
If you had bothered to check you would have noted that Texas A&M created a "class" with three student atheletes, including the QB Reggie McNeal. Of course, it was regionally accreditted. LOL. It was the university that created an "almost fictional" major for these kids.
This occurs at most major program. The kicker is that SACS and the other regionals KNOW about the cheating, and do NOTHING about it. If DETC was doing such a thing,you'd be calling for the DOE to withdraw its approval. Let's see if you have the intellectual honesty to hold RA to the most elementary of standards.
I must call into question the morals of any person who defends this mockery of our educational system. Even if it was only ONE student cheating, you'd expect the school to at least investigate, and of course, it has not happened and will not happen, and the NCAA and SACS have looked the other way.
It is damming to the other kids that bust their ass. The fact that most students bust their ass is irrelevant to fact that the regionals have sold their soul to the NCAA.

But keep up the good work. Elitists are a dying breed.

Rale March 14, 2008 at 11:17 p.m.

Well said S:

I stongly pity for those who think only RA can render and deliver good education. The team that just thinks that only RA accreditation is the best then it is like "an old person with confined knowledge and exposure saying to use bulls to raise crops". I agree RA is best but not the only best. There are good schools from NA accreditation too. All the arguing folks on the one side of the "RA best" need to get educated on the NA accredited schools. The "RA folks" how much ever you try to maintain your false prestige, it is true that NA schools are going to meet the needs of huge aspirants for education "degrees" and delivering high quality for the present and future educational needs. All RAs should wake up and get enlightened on the strides that are taking place for the future from NA accreditated schools.

Rale March 15, 2008 at 9:04 a.m.

What may... the future is going to be online.... whether it is RA or NA (both are CHEA and USDoE accredited). The so called differences are not going to be material. The gold standard is not just the feeling ("an old person with confined knowledge and exposure saying to use bulls to raise crops")...

Rale March 15, 2008 at 4:56 p.m.

NA can live without individual agreement and acceptance... It is fine if someone does not agree.... the top 10 universites not agreeing to the rest of RA.... (universities are happly living without the agreement from the top bras...)

Walter March 16, 2008 at 12:30 a.m.

Tam,

I really didn’t wish to do this, but you’ve forced my hand. As I’ve said in the past, you’ve raised some valid concerns, but went about it the wrong way. Furthermore, attacking NA accreditation on a fundamental level is incorrect. Saying it’s not readily accepted would come across as a more convincing statement. That would validate your equality argument more appropriately. There is only one area where US DoE treats NA differently than RA agencies.

(Quote):

The national agencies, going back to the change in the law in 1998, have been held by ED to a much more stringent requirement in terms of outcomes assessment processes than have the regionals.

Nationals, unlike the regionals, have to enforce strict, "bright line" outcomes assessment standards for their institutions: published and enforced minimum course completion and graduation rates, test pass rates, student satisfaction rates, etc.

For example, DETC was required by ED to publish bright line outcomes standards for its institutions in 2002, and this has strengthened our institutions. They are able to document how well their graduates do and how much they have learned, and have the metrics to back up their promotional claims.

The regionals have largely been given complete freedom and leeway by ED to not have to publish minimum, "bright line" standards for outcomes for their multi-faceted and complex constituencies. Each institution is measured individually, using unique measures for that institution, based on individual institutional missions. (End Quote)

So, the US DoE have actually raised NA agencies standards considerably and there’s documentation (“bright line”) to prove their quality. That’s why DETC has continually received awards for their exceptional quality assurance standards. Don’t believe me, write the regionals and asked them why haven’t they agreed to participate in “bright line”? Furthermore, write CHEA and US DoE and asked them about quality assurance and/or “bright line”!

Walter March 16, 2008 at 3:05 a.m.

Fred,

Thanks! I still believe this regional vs. national debate serves little purpose. Our goal should be furthering education, not arguing over whose accredited degree's better! That said, we can't just standby and overlook inconsistencies either. People need to have all the facts, and know they’re many educational opportunities out there. Thanks!

Tam March 16, 2008 at 6:38 a.m.

Wrong! The RA and NA debate serves a BIG purpose. Online vs B&M is a valid debate as well. I encourage people to further their education, but be informed prior to embarking. Too much propaganda from CSU salesmen here. Try getting info on CSU type schools somewhere else. You may be shocked.

S March 16, 2008 at 4:10 p.m.

Like I said before I am employed by the Department of Defense (not CSU) and am attending CSU. Just started my third course. I also have two BS degrees from University of Maryland and Marshall University (both RA schools).

At first, I was very uncertain about CSU but I have changed my thoughts. After looking into CSU I have decided to finish my degree with CSU. I spoke with my employer, the HR staff, and other various management personnel. One of which graduated from CSU.

Jay March 16, 2008 at 7:35 p.m.

Tic Tac - There is no reason for me to validate a degree that is completely valid. I am not "biased" and if you have read any of my posts, you will see that I have stated both pros and cons to distance vs. traditional learning. As far as accreditation goes, that is a complete farce of an argument because credit transfer is so convoluted, even among schools of the same regional accreditation. Credit transfer is all smoke and mirror games universities play based on money! Oh, and if Texas does not recognize DETC degrees, as much litigation we Americans love to participate in, I’ll bet it is only be a matter of time before someone hauls Texas into court and would probably win that war. Why? Because, a court decision against the plaintiff would completely INVALIDATE the existence or standards of the DOE, CHEA and US accreditation system (which is need of an enema). Furthermore, while in the military, I was stationed “deep in the heart of Texas” and took classes in a “wonderful” Texas college. The curriculum was substandard and half my professors couldn’t speak English clear enough to effectively communicate or teach. It was a RA “gold standard” school that a BABOON could pass with flying colors. There is no such thing as a gold standard anything. Even a student from an Ivy League school can graduate, remain a complete moron and use the name of their school to get a job, so they can “fake it ‘till they make it”. If you don’t believe me, look in Washington DC because it’s chock full of prime examples. There are a lot of people in this forum who are participating to assist others in seeking and discuss logical debates. Neither you nor your buddy “Tam” have provided anything of value in this forum, other than demeaning and attacking participants.

Fred March 17, 2008 at 12:14 a.m.

Goodbye everyone:

My use of this forum is now completed. Thanks you again to all the contributors for their insight.
Walter and others, you have given useful information and in doing so exposed the unfounded bias against DETC.
I will see which program best fits my needs.

Although I probably won't be around for it, I'd like to see somoene in the "RA only camp" have the decency to denounce the regionals' utter failure to live up to their own gold standards regarding "classes", insitutionalized cheating, etc for student athletes. For people so interested in consistency and quality, they sure are quiet on this subject.

See you on the other side.

Fred March 17, 2008 at 4:15 a.m.

before I leave, for the record I am not an enrollment counselor, just a prospective student.
I would never accept advice from someone like tic tac who finds it acceptable that the regional accreditting agencies overlook cheating. That's pretty biased is you ask me. This forum should be called "Biased Online Degree Reviews."

have fun.

Jamie March 17, 2008 at 4:42 a.m.

Tam,

You've informed us enough about your viewpoints. Move on already!

csu March 17, 2008 at 2:56 p.m.

My Degree was accepted by my employer...and they also encouraged me to return for my masters. The degree does not get you the job Tam, it only gets you an interview...the rest is up to you! Tam you are the only one that is saying that a NA degree is no good, but then agian who cares what you are saying, you are not doing the hiring.

Jamie March 17, 2008 at 3:29 p.m.

Tam,

If you haven't already figured it out, no one cares about your personal opinion. You're not the self-proclaimed expert you think you are.

Listen folks, Tam is an anonymous poster who likes to think he/she is a self-proclaimed expert in this subject matter, which it is obvious that he/she is not. Is there a bias of RA vs. NA.? Sure there is, but that doesn't prohibit you from becoming successful. There's a bias in about every topic you can think about. If you think that all you need is a regionally accredited degree to obtain success you’re an ignorant idiot.

I am not bad mouthing regional accreditation, but you sure are demeaning national accreditation with no factual data or research to back your claims. What I am providing is factual information about the topic. Let the readers of this forum decide for themselves about what type of education they want to pursue.

In the eyes of CHEA and the U.S. Department of Education, NA and RA have to meet the EXACT same standard of quality. The bias mainly has to do with credit transfers, which has been thoroughly addressed through Congress and the House of Representatives. I can give you a list of 400+ regionally accredited schools that I could transfer to, if I was so inclined to do so. Bottom line is that I don't need to. I've attended both RA and NA schools and speak intelligently about the pros and cons of each.

With over 140 million graduates over nearly a century from DETC accredited schools, I would conclude that DETC knows what they're doing when it comes to distance education.

If you want to learn the TRUTH about this topic with validated research go to the CHEA website, U.S. Department of Education's website, DETC's website, regional accreditors respective websites, ect.

Tam March 17, 2008 at 5:31 p.m.

Well, I suppose there is no reason for RA/B&M schools to exist. Just get online and get any old "accredited" diploma and you're good to go. "It's all gooood". Why would anyone leave home and spend the big bucks on a traditional education. All you have to do is sign-up with CSU and do your "assignments" at home in your underwear - then get someone to "proctor" (good gawd!) your "exams".

As for me, I graduated with a BS from a big RA University that has a NCAA Div. I football team. I'm so ashamed! (lol). Oh, I won't mention their name because I don't want them to have any association with CSU - even on a review sight. Ya'll have already wrongfully glammed onto RA being associated with NA just because they are both CHEA, so I'm saving my University from your rath.

With that said, there are lots of good posts about what you can do with a CSU degree. Like getting the personal satisfaction of obtaining a degree - the feeling of accomplishment is very real. Also, mentioning where a CSU degree is accepted is all good. But lets not ignore the challenges people will face with a CSU type degree.

Good luck with your studies and I wish all the CSU students the very best.

Rale March 17, 2008 at 7:04 p.m.

Tam, it is great of you to have your BS from a big RA University.... when you say big RA University... there are several other small and inferior RAs that exist and may not be equal in your views to the big RA Universities.... the big, small, gold standard.... are NOT defined by the CHEA and USDoE.... let us stop here... and view the accreditation at CHEA and USDoE level.. Leave the rest to individual skills and capabilities.... to determine... who lands up in what kind of job...

Rale March 18, 2008 at 2:57 a.m.

Tam, It is a shame that you talk about traps.... here.... you are making senseless agruments... this is very evident the kind of BIG RA grad talking like this in an unruly manner.... it would be so nice of you if you keep off of this.... please stop here... my humble request to other bloggers.... let this be the last response to Tam.

Jay March 18, 2008 at 12:19 p.m.

Jamie - Thanks for informing me about that in Texas. Rale - I concur 100%!

Current Student March 18, 2008 at 4:07 p.m.

Well, I did a complaint to the DECT about problems with CSU; I will not give many details because by doing so it will put me in very narrow position, since I have complained.

The University does need work in some areas, which are small to them and not many have complaint about it. Nothing against CSU, but did not work for me. They have asked for my feedback every time I finished a course. I don’t know why I even bother since I know they won’t do anything. As a matter of fact I stop giving it.

I will finish with CSU because I am so close to be done and this time is not wise to take a loss and transfer out. I will not recommend the University to anyone I know. Just to be clear this is my experience alone and in any way to be taken to the letter, but it helps someone to make a better and educated decision, so be it.

It seems as you get closer to finishing and CSU got most of the money the stop doing the things the way the promise. I will put my review as soon as I am done. My two despondent cents.

Jay March 18, 2008 at 9:41 p.m.

As a secondary thought, I see a viable "fit" for all institutions, whether B&M RA or DL NA. The "key" for a prospective student is to weigh their personal situation (professional and academic) and choose the right course of action. All are good in their own respect, but can only fit so many scenarios. That being said, one type of institution is no better than the other, so long they meet the personal needs of their students. Diversity is the key!

S March 19, 2008 at 4:24 a.m.

Tam,

Learn how to spell diversity before you use it. Learn what is does. Corporations use it to improve productivity. People with various backgrounds bring new experiences to the workplace and education.

I took this from Cornell University (RA), “Diversity is about learning from others who are not the same, about dignity and respect for all, and about creating workplace environments and practices that encourage learning from others and capture the advantage of diverse perspectives”

So where is your respect for all… or are you just about holding people back because their views are different than yours?

Go back to your big RA school and this time pay attention in class.

Tam March 19, 2008 at 2:13 p.m.

Hey, S
So, your saying that if everyone was the same (race, religion, origin...etc) that we'd be just a mess or at least worse off. Well, when you "mulligan stew" everything, you have to take the bad with the good. We're global, so good ideas can come from anywhere. As for the bad side, I know I'm not gonna sit back and let CSU type education diversify us into mediocracy without letting people hear about it. CSU is not making education better. CSU is making it more convenient. Equal? I don't see it.

Great education is what it is, so don't peck at it. If CSU is what you want, go for it. I won't stop you. CSU serves a purpose as I've pointed out before. It's what it is. Keep it real.

Thank you and good luck with your education.

Jay March 19, 2008 at 9:49 p.m.

S - You are wasting your time and effort with these two. Their only purpose in this forum is to make useless arguments. They have lost all validity and respect in his forum, so don't waste your energy trying to reason with the unreasonable! The only reason why they are here is to get a "kick" in their miserable pathetic lives.

Jamie March 20, 2008 at 7:08 a.m.

tic tac/Tam you really should put a sock in it. You are bitter against something I don't know but CSU is a fantastic university. It is better than all the RA accredited for-profit schools combined. Just look at the rating here, it is the highest so that is proof enough. Maybe you are afraid us CSU grads will take your jobs with your big RA degrees and prove that DETC provides superior educations online as you must be more motivated to learn. Only self starters finish this program and that is what the business world looks for. CSU could get RA if it wanted but it doesn't need it, even tic tac's article says it has a great reputation and that is all that matters to employers. CSU doesn't need RA; it stands by itself and you would do well to recognize that.

Jamie March 20, 2008 at 3:45 p.m.

Tic Tac,

Ok, just for the record, the last "Jamie" is not the same "Jamie" that's been writing on this forum, although I have to agree with my fellow blogger. In addition, you're just not getting it that the people on this forum ARE NOT enrollment counselors. By the way, learn how to use the proper terminology before you write it. You’re reference to enrollment “councilors” makes absolutely no sense. A “councilor” is a member of a council, whereas counselor is a person who gives counsel; advice. I am glad you’re education has been helping you articulate in an intelligent manner.

The fact that you spend so much time here trying to demean someone else’s education just goes to show what type of person you are. It's obvious your education, or lack thereof, has not suited you well.

Good luck with your over priced and over glorified AACSB degree. I hope you get that big job with big money because of it. Word of advice, if you're depending on a college reputation or accreditation to make you successful, you’re in for a big disappointment.

Jay March 21, 2008 at midnight

The integrity and validity of discussions in this forum is shot full of holes! If I were a bystander reading these threads, I would totally disregard statements made in favor for or against both RA and NA accreditation. The bottom line is that all schools recognized by the DOE and CHEA are valid legitimate institutions of higher learning. What needs to be understood is that there are different venues available for PEOPLE to achieve an education and fulfill either their personal or professional goals. Everyone in our country should have the opportunity to excel, whether they are so called “bottom feeders” or “elitists”. NO ONE has the right to dictate what is correct or not for others. Can’t anyone understand that the ENTIRE system of “transfer of credits” game among US institutions is so corrupt that ALL accrediting bodies are destroying their legitimacy?? Participants in this forum have an obligation to ENCOURAGE and ASSIST everyone with a desire to pursue excellence. Incumbent, we should lower the passionate views we have and try to establish some sort of common ground. Enough of personal attacks and insults! My God, this kind of rhetoric only creates havoc. Being a critic is the easiest job in the world. Everyone makes a decision what fits best for their own situation and if it works for them, shares it with others. So, is it all Goooood? Yes, it is!! Mankind is too complex to find a “black and white” approach to learn and advance. Many of our “founding fathers” never had any type of formal education, but managed to learn progress and create. How is it possible that leaders who never obtained a “sheepskin” from a well established university managed to create a country like we have the privilege to live in? But, in retrospect, folks who have all the qualifications and “ticket punches” are ripping it apart at the seams? Please, no more Hippocratic discussions. Lastly, DIVERSITY is what made our country what it is. Do you want to revert back to something like the third reich???

Tam March 21, 2008 at 2:04 a.m.

Awesome, tic tac.
The CSU promoters don't get it. Hiding behind words like "diversity", "accreditation" and "recognized" doesn't mean a thing. You can't demand a good reputation or buy it, you have to earn it. You certainly can't earn it by employing the same marketing techniques that are used by companies promoting male enhancement products.

tic tac March 21, 2008 at 4:56 a.m.

Well S, I see you have nothing better to do then go on a pedantic tirade. My specialty is numbers and I'm sure I can do circles around you conducting an audit. I did not realize I was being graded on my 5 second post. Considering you spell "bet", "be" you aren't one to talk about educations now are you?

Lesson: If you're going to critique one's spelling you had better check your own first. Looks rather hypocritical doesn't it?

tic tac March 21, 2008 at 5:15 a.m.

@Tam

You are exactly right my dear. I cannot stand these spammer schools that ask for your e-mail so they can give you the information and then spam you to death after you tell them you are not interested. Granted, CSU isn't half as bad as the pop-up ads of UOP, but they still call you when they are not wanted and still flood your inbox with worthless hooks. I never had traditional schools calling me after I told them "Don't Call Me ANYMORE!" I get the feeling there are CSU employees here and they love those buzz words to hype their school. CSU has diversity... what kind of diversity? I bet they don't have many young people... so the age demographic isn't diverse. I bet they don't have top scores on standardized testing so their score demographic isn't very diverse. I bet they don't have many attendees that are in the top income brackets so their social demographics are not very diverse. The only thing that is diverse is ethnicity based on the lowest achievers not being able to get in anywhere else.

Jamie March 21, 2008 at 5:58 a.m.

Tic Tac,

Just for the record, I've had plenty of opportunities at various traditional schools (some of which I've attended) and made a personal decision to attend CSU.

Insinuating that students and graduates are considered to be "the lowest achievers not being able to get in anywhere else" is in fact an insult and attack on students and alumni of CSU. Calling everyone on this forum "enrollment councilor", which should be enrollment COUNSELOR, is in fact an insult to everyone here that has participated on this forum. Saying, "As far as your unaccredited MBA" (referencing CSU) is in fact an insult and attack on CSU and its graduates (and is completely inaccurate).

Tic Tac, in all honesty, I am truly disappointed that the two graduate courses you took at CSU did not transfer to the school of your liking. I've run into the same problem in the past. What I can tell you is there are SO many other options out there for you to transfer. Go to the CHEA website and look-up the Higher Education Transfer Alliance (HETA), You'll find over 400+ RA and NA schools that don't discriminate against transfer credits. Also, depending on what you want to study, CSU has partnered with MANY traditional and online universities for ease of transfer to these partnership institutions.

What I am trying to say is don't get so hung-up that your two graduate classes from CSU didn't transfer to a particular college and/or university. You're going to run into that with RA to RA schools, as well as NA to RA schools. Transfer of credits is a very complicated process that could make your head spin right off your shoulders. What I am saying is there are lots of options available to you if you choose to look for them. If you're degree has to be regionally accredited for certain licensing then by all means pursue a regionally accredited degree.

Good luck and I hope this can be a truce for the personal attacks and insults that we've all been dishing out to one another.

tic tac March 21, 2008 at 7:03 a.m.

I recently found a fantastic article that adresses all the problems with DETC and transfering. From my favorite know-it-all website About.com

http://distancelearn.about.com/od/accred...

And the most damning quotes...

"A study conducted by the DETC showed that, of the students who attempted to transfer credits to a regionally accredited school, two-thirds were accepted and one-third were rejected."

"Even some schools with DETC accreditation view transcripts from regionally accredited schools as superior."

I think that about finishes that argument.

tic tac March 21, 2008 at 1:30 p.m.

Tam, I have posted this link on every thread with DETC only accreditation so everyone here will understand. Like you say, these schools have there place but this is very important information people need to know. I don't want people running into the same brick wall I did with my CSU credits. Hopefully, it will educate them so they can save themselves the money and time I wasted. It was my ignorance of DETC that got me into the mess in the first place. The reason I picked CSU was because it had a good rep. It was decent; better than I thought it would be actually. But these degrees are not really accepted... yet. There will be a day but it is a long time in coming.

tic tac March 21, 2008 at 5:01 p.m.

Well Jay, you are obviously full of it considering you can't get a military commission without an approved ROTC program. Otherwise you would have to go to OCS, but then you don't need a degree for that. If you experience something tragic with your own education I would hope you would share it with others. It would be rather selfish of you if you didn't. I don't care what people do with the information as long as they know the truth. That is what I tell when I say was satisified with the content of my online classes. If I had a vendetta I would say CSU sucks... don't go... but I am not saying that. I am only saying, know what you are getting into before you enroll.

Tam March 22, 2008 at 1:01 a.m.

The more you research CSU, the worse they look. The only good ratings they have are the ones they give themselves. (like this sight) And then there's that worthless accred sight Jamie's posted.

Know your place in the education world and you'll be much happier. Try to preach all of this "we're just as good" stuff and you'll get an argument. CSU is helping some people with lots of experience who need a ticket-punch degree. Yeah, I'll grant you that. But that's about all. The rest is all about if CSU makes you "feel" educated. If it does, cool (yawn).

Jamie March 22, 2008 at 5:23 a.m.

Tam,

Know my place in the education world and I'll be much happier? Like you're putting me in my place as having a lesser education than you? I'll have you know that you don't have a clue as to my level of education, so you should pipe down.

Education goes way beyond what school you graduated from regardless of its accreditation. You're a very shallow individual, but continue to go about your higher than thou attitude. I am sure it'll get you far in this world!

Your ignorant nonsense is like me trying to be a self-proclaimed expert in a subject matter that I know nothing about or have no experience in. I am guessing you've never attended a DETC school. That's too bad :( Maybe if you enrolled into one you might actually get an education and learn something because obviously your precious little RA school hasn’t benefited your human relations skills one little bit.

Tam March 22, 2008 at 6:34 a.m.

Pro-CSU posters don't realize they are bashing RA when they make outrageous claims of equal accreditation. I think their attacks are vicious and mean spirited.

This propaganda should not continue unchecked. The pro-CSU posters are certainly not experts in education. Too much bad information from them, but it's really not in what they say, it's what they don't say that is such a crime.

If persuing an education of the caliber of CSU is okay by you, then it's okay by me. CSU serves a niche, but do your own research elsewhere to know what caliber it really is.

Tam March 22, 2008 at 2:19 p.m.

Jay, you better stick with matters of the military and quite showing your ignorance about education. Being an accomplished soldier has nothing to do with your credibility on the education subject. What does seeing "busted and shot up" soldiers have to do with rating CSU? We all thank you for your service, but please don't use it as leverage to prove some sort of point on this forum.

It's like when 9-11 came, the firemen of a small town used it to proclaiming that all firemen are super heros. They leveraged 9-11 to demand money for a new firehouse and vehicles. Alot of money the town didn't even have close to having. Since nobody could contest it (or get hissed at) they got what they wanted and put the little town into huge debt for stuff they didn't need. The firemen didn't care. They got their "Taj Majal" firehouse and all shiney new trucks and cars. The little town will struggle for years doing without things they really need.

Do you get my point here? Your pulling the same thing, but instead of money, you're demanding respect for your education. As you know, you can't demand respect, you command respect. The same kind of respect you command from all of us by being a dedicated soldier.

Now, I would never want to deny an education to a soldier at a distant location. I believe CSU serves a good purpose for that. But again, don't blow smoke up everyones skirt about how good it is and don't demand respect for it. As tic tac stated, it's top of the dung pile, but it's an education non-the-less.

Walter March 22, 2008 at 5:45 p.m.

Tam,

Your continued attack shows your bias and misunderstanding concerning the accreditation process. Your argument stance insists that RA is superior to NA accreditation, but ask others not to bring the overseers (CHEA & US DoE) into the debate. This makes no sense whatsoever! My MBA requirements directed me to present all relevant facts, and start from the top or bottom (working up or down), not the middle. You’ve even attacked tic tacs gold standard ACCSB accreditation! (If it's this "ACCSB" also, who cares, but never "just" AACSB without RA.) All true business majors know this accreditation relates to specialized programs and not institutional accreditation. It should be noted, that’s why tic tacs credits wouldn’t transfer not its NA status alone. Even non AACSB RA credits won’t transfer in most cases to an AACSB RA school.

There are numerous RA schools accepting NA undergraduates into their programs (PhD, DBA, MBA, MS etc.). These schools are nationally ranked and accepted in academia. If an individual’s undergraduate was from CCU and they obtained their graduate from Arcadia University, Harvard would have no problem accepting them into their PhD program. Degrees work up not down, and academia would not discredit an individual’s credentials based on his/her undergraduate degree. Your rationale would suggest schools would somehow overlook his/her advance RA degree.

That’s my point, CHEA and US DoE should be the focus here, not RA or NA accreditors. If the US DoE or CHEA stated RA accreditation was in fact the “Gold Standard”, I’m sure the argument would conclude in your favor. Unfortunately, neither the CHEA nor US DoE have supported that stance! Furthermore, Jamie’s right about accreditation and the procedural differences between NA & RA accreditation (Bright line). So, if the degree meets the person’s needs, it’s recognized by CHEA and/or US DoE, credits are accepted by the RA college they wish to transfer to, and their employer accepts the degree, isn't the degree worth the effort?????????????

PS: I agree with USN O-6! Both Tic tac & Jay are correct! Being a former NA student, Tic tac does bring some concerns that need addressing!

USAF E-8 March 23, 2008 at 5:30 a.m.

I've been watching this debate rage on and on. Finally, two impartial parties have brought reason to the debate (USN 0-6 & Just a witness). I have been in the Air Force for 22 yrs and do take offense to my education being called "dung". It's not easy working on an education while deployed to every dung hole on earth trying to keep the peace while meeting mission demands.

There are no Harvards or Yales on the front line of the Global War on Terrorism, only universities who have DE opportunities. I started out trying to take my classes on or near base but with deployment after deployment and multiple stations (Germany, Italy, Alaska, Korea, Israel, Spain, etc) it was impossible to accomplish. Yeah I could get out of the military and go to school full time but I am doing something that is bigger than my individual needs. DE regardless of RA or NA accreditation is something that works for adults who work for a living and have commitments.

Just a quick history lesson on DE and the military. A vast majority of the United States enlisted military personnel are enrolled with a college. A very large portion of those classes are DE. So by calling these degrees dung, you attack our service members’ integrity, service, and education. A large majority of corporations go out of their way to recruit and hire former military personnel. The reason is their commitment, training, education, and can do attitude Education gets your foot in the door and then the rest is up to you.

Compared to 20 years ago, enlisted education levels have increased significantly. When I came in very few enlisted had Bachelor degrees. Now I work in an office where 4 out 5 have at least a Bachelor Degree and two have Masters Degrees. While this is not the norm this trend is increasing due to DE. These people could not have accomplished this level of education had it not been for DE (RA/NA). Today due to DE, our military is far more educated and able to handle the increased technology that is used to defend our nation.

Distant Education March 23, 2008 at 1:10 p.m.

My buddy got his degree by letting his wife do his coursework online and paying co-workers to do his work for him.So he pretty much hussled and scammed his way to a Bachelors degree. I personally know quite a few people scamming their degrees online. Had these guys went to a traditional school,I don't think they would've been able to pull this off as easy they did. With DE there is no face to face. They are working the system. To Jamie, and other CSU students, do you think that these people are giving distant education in general a bad name, as far as the credibility goes? What's your take on this?

Procter March 23, 2008 at 3:33 p.m.

Problem with CSU is they don't check the proctors. You can get your wife to procter it and say she is your supervisor. For many men they are!

Laughing March 25, 2008 at 11:35 a.m.

I am laughing at all of you! I enjoy reading pointless, dead-ended agruments. Nobody has made any valid points, except, that none of you are as smart as you think! Most of you should try developing some sort of social life.

Laughing March 25, 2008 at 7:09 p.m.

@Tam - Sorry, but you are underqualified to join my social circle of losers! Let's just say that your friendship credits won't transfer....

tic tac March 26, 2008 at 12:01 a.m.

Poor Tam... he might not take your friendship credits, but CSU will! Just hand in a folder for some Experiential Learning and CSU will get you that much closer to your degree. Tell them you met "Laughing" at your holiday in Tahiti and get credit for a Tourism degree.

http://www.columbiasouthern.edu/student_...

Vito March 26, 2008 at 6:04 p.m.

Tam,

Glad to see you're not a democrat. However, how old are you? Quite honestly you sound very immature. I'm not saying you don't make some valid points, but the way you come across is like a tyrant.

I don't think anyone is telling their child, graduating from high school, that they should enroll at CSU. With that being said CSU serves a valid purpose. Many adults, for whatever reason, never finished college. Many can't and don't have the time to attend a B&M campus school. This is where CSU comes in.

Adults who are already working for the government or private sector can earn their degree, many with tuition reimbursement from their work places. I understand the NA vs RA concerns, but there are many companies that accept NA school degrees.

I don't think anyone is coming on here comparing CSU to some of the elite universities. However, for working adults looking to get promoted, or just earning an accredited degree, I think CSU would be fine.

I am not a CSU student so there is no bias with me. If the school is accredited by the DETC, which is approved by the DOE, then what is the problem? Granted, RA degrees are valued more. Whether that is right or wrong is up for debate.

CSU seems to have a good reputation as many on this forum have expressed. Unless CSU is embellishing or misleading students in some way, which doesn't appear to be the case, I don't see what the problem is?

Vito March 26, 2008 at 9:28 p.m.

Tam,

"Yo, Vito" LOL, are you stereotyping me, sweatheart? I don't have a status quo. I'm not a student of CSU. It just seems you're going out of your way to criticize this school.

People can post replies as they see fit. It just seems you're on a crusade to bad mouth this school. You said your piece. Looks like you've been posting for weeks.

Does CSU's sales talk bother you that much? You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you're going overboard here. I do agree people should get all the facts.

If you feel so strongly about this why stop with this site? Get a list of all the government agencies and private sector companies that accept NA degrees and warn them about these graduates and CSU. I guess their being duped as well.

Now if you can convince these companies and gov. agencies that CSU is worthless your mission will be complete.

Vito March 26, 2008 at 10:28 p.m.

Tam,

Sorry, "sugar britches" is too southern for me.You have to get Jethro to call you that. However, I do like country music. "CSU web site scandal"? Tam, come on. Stop being a bully.

Tam March 27, 2008 at 1:58 a.m.

Obviously I'm onto something.
For the sake of so many innocent CSU grads & students, I'll leave it alone on this sight for now.

Hey Vito,
Bada-bing Bada-boom!
Have fun.

tic tac March 27, 2008 at 3:55 a.m.

Hey Griffith dude... don't repost letters unless you wrote them yourself. If you want people to read it just link it. You can read the rules can't you?

Sugar britches... isn't that reserved for your husband?

Vito... if Tam is "bullying" you then you are the biggest wimp this side of the Mississippi. She has not threatened anyone.

Tam March 27, 2008 at 1:39 p.m.

Tic tac is cool, Vito.

I'd still like someone to comment on the issue I posted on March 26 regarding CSU's association with the U. of Northern Alabama. Is there a website scam going on?

tic tac March 27, 2008 at 6:38 p.m.

For-profits are in for a heavy decline in enrollment and revenues.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12047631...

Blechh! March 28, 2008 at 12:44 p.m.

@Fred
Tim and tic tac are hitting the nail on the head. It's you that are a little delusional. You don't know it, but you are trashing traditional colleges by trying to bring them down to your level. You won't get equality points that way.

If you were to equate CSU with the movie industry, traditional colleges would be mainstream and CSU would be porn. Not many pornstars crossover to the mainstream side. If that's the world you want to slither around in, be my guest.

You can give all the examples of so-called success stories you want. You can make all of the claims of transferabilty you want, but one thing will always ring true. CSU stinks. Prepare to be sneered at when you proudly brag about your CSU diploma to 95% of the people you meet.

As for those CSU linked web pages. I checked. It does look like they are robbing UNA pages for their own promotion. I haven't check the others, but it gives me a creepy feeling about CSU. I am no lawyer, but I think they are walking a fine line of doing something that is flat out ILLEGAL. If not, it's definately sick.

Blechh! March 28, 2008 at 2:47 p.m.

There you go again, Fred.
Don't expect anyone to respond kindly to your attacks against traditional colleges in an attempt to raise DETC. It's not working - and it's not logical. Mostly, it's antagonizing them.

As for the others with an anti-DETC agenda. I don't see it. They're stating facts and valid opinions that I basically agree with. Harsh, yes - valid, yes.

I know it's tough reading their words, but that's what this forum is all about. If you want to keep them from writing negatives about DETC, then stop mentioning negatives about traditional colleges altogether. Your comparisons read like insults to them. Stick with the positive aspects of CSU and forget about the rest.

I believe that strategy along with CSU cleaning up their links to bogus pages associated with other colleges would help. I'm not sure if some savvy lawyer wouldn't go after CSU for fraud for that.

A Question March 28, 2008 at 8:40 p.m.

Do you both not like CSU and CCU or do you not like DETC schools all togehter? I notice that you have been on both the CSU and CCU pages. However, you have left all the other DETC schools alone. I do not attend either of the schools you have been posting on. Nevertheless, I figure there must be a reason why you are only going after these two schools. They must be popular amoung students and others.

Walter March 28, 2008 at 11:52 p.m.

Here’s some other sites you may wish to consider concerning your research:

www.elearners.com/guide-to-online-educat...

www.allbusinessschools.com/faqs/onlinemb...

These two sites are considered very reputable and objective! I’ve stated numerous times accreditation isn’t something that’s straight forward, and shouldn’t be viewed this way. There are a lot of variables that come into play, but our primary focus should be their overseers! Thanks!

Walter

Fred March 29, 2008 at 1:32 a.m.

Mr.Blechh:

You did not read my last comments very carefully. Let me review, again.

Pointing out the RA's failures does not equal attacking traditional universities. I am a graduate of a traditional college. I have nothing to gain by "attacking" these schools. It is the institutions who should be criticized for dropping their standards to make $$$$. I am merely pointing out the glaring hypocrisy embraced by some on this forum. More on that below.

I have the honesty to recognize the superior acceptability and reputation of regional accreditation. The acceptability and reputation of RA is based on perception. On paper, legally, DETC and RA are equal, as per a high ranking state official.

Tam, tic tac and a few others can easily discuss the limitations of DETC degrees without referring to DETC as a "dung pile", using condescending tone, and demeaning language. Typical internet tough guys. I doubt they would use such language in front of Mr. Lambert of DETC

I have the honesty, as an RA graduate, to recognize that NA has gained significant credibility in degree utitlity, and this has been well documented. 2 out of every 3 DETC students transfer their credits to RA. That was unheard 10 or 15 years ago.

The credibility of the advice rendered by those who swear by the RA only standard is rightly questioned when they refuse to denounce cheating, simply because it is done at a RA institution. By not doing so, they reveal that quality is not the utmost concern, but rather, the label is. They find it acceptable that the RA's award credit for no work and then turn around and criticize DETC for having low standards. The bias is obvious. If you don't see it, then you need to think about it some more.

It's that simple.

Walter March 29, 2008 at 2:23 a.m.

Tam,

Allbusiness Schools is mostly a RA school's website! They have information on AACSB and ACBSP accredited schools! They also have information on DETC and/or RA business school accreditation. They’re primary concern is distance education and accredited business schools. Elearners is part of Education Dynamics and has nothing to do with NA accreditors. Sorry!

Jay March 29, 2008 at 8:38 a.m.

Fred - Excellent points!

Walter - Give up arguing with them. There is no purpose in it and look at the REAL motives some people in this forum have. There are a couple that are spinning around in other school threads in this .org playing the same game.They have no validity left.

tic tac March 29, 2008 at 4:12 p.m.

Sorry everyone but I have not taken my medicine lately and I have too much time in my hands, I suffer from personality disorder and I have several personalities that takes over when I am not taking my medicine. Sorry for all the stupidity and other things.

S March 29, 2008 at 4:23 p.m.

Tic Tac,

Or is it Tam? How many other names have you used to post under when you were off your meds?

tic tac March 29, 2008 at 9:15 p.m.

How many people wish they were me... it seems to be many. LOL!

Note everyone... the fact people need to use alter-egos should be evidence enough of the weakness of their debate.

Tam does not equal tic tac... sorry!

Tam March 29, 2008 at 11:05 p.m.

All of you pro-CSU folks here act just like liberal politicians. When they're beat, they start making jokes and try to laugh it off. (EG: "Cut spending? Why don't you Republicans just throw the old people out on the street..hehehehe!") Well, you guys have hit the wall here too.

Pro-CSU posters have lost the debate. They've all gone into "ha ha" mode. Congratulations to all of the folks posting truths about the problems and weaknesses of CSU and NA/online schools.

I suppose the truth along with the CSU website scandal has shut everybody up.

Victory is sweet!

Chris March 30, 2008 at 3:02 a.m.

I do wish that people could go to a forum and get information on a "SCHOOL" and not have to read an accreditation debate. If you don't have a post as to the quality of the school in question go elsewhere. So that there will be no debate as to the validity to my post: I'm not a current student, an enrollment counselor, nor am I a CSU pusher. I am just someone who is well past their prime looking to finish a degree. I have family obligations, work obligations, and I am heavily involved in my Church.

I was looking for a school that has a good review from it's students, that has an open enrollment, is self paced, and is affordable. I was well pleased with what I saw when I first found this forum. Now, I am once again wondering which route to take. It is so sad that people can't make informed decisions about their education, because there are so many people wanting to debate the RA vs NA and the DL vs BM.

Now can anyone please tell me if this school is a good school or not without the accreditation debates? If you can't then please do not respond to my post.

With Regards,
Chris

wow March 30, 2008 at 10:27 a.m.

Tam may be on to something about those web pages. Looks kinda shady to me.

Want to attend March 30, 2008 at 11:36 p.m.

Chris:
I am a student of CSU working on my MBA. If you can learn on your own then I say go ahead with CSU. If you can't then the school might not be for you. My advice to you is take a class and see if you like it. I will be signing up for my fourth class soon. Classes are not extremely hard but are not easy as pie. You will have to work for your degree, this school is not a pay and get a degree type school.

Wanted to add I am not an employee of the school nor do I get any kickbacks from the school. I personally like the school and could care less about the stupid RA/NA debate.

Tam:
I went to the UNA website and typed Columbia Southern University in their search engine ( bottom right side) and they do partner with CSU. I have no idea what you are talking about with UNA. For those that have doubts just call UNA and ask.

Walter March 31, 2008 at 2:07 a.m.

Want to attend is correct!

CSU’s listed as a partner under:

www2.una.edu/collbusiness/HomePage.html

It's under the University of Northern Alabama website!

Thanks!

Jamie March 31, 2008 at 4:37 a.m.

There goes Tam, once again, posting frivolous information about suspecting UNA and CSU's academic partnership without ever doing any research or even calling UNA directly. Tam, I'll say again and again...GET A LIFE!

Your lack of intelligence is getting down right annoying. You’re an online pest with no valuable insight or information, yet you continue to barrage this site with your useless postings. In addition, you hold no credibility and if anything, continue to lack credibility with each posting with your lack of knowledge.

And again the posters here ARE NOT CSU SALES PEOPLE! If you read through the postings here you'll see it to be previous and/or current students. CSU has much better use of their time other than pretending to be students on an anonymous forum.

If CSU just wanted your money why would they have partnered with so many traditional schools to offer their students educational alternatives? Tam has NO CLUE as to the quality difference between NA and RA schools. More accurately, Tam doesn't have a clue about a lot of things, as it continues to be apparent every time he/she posts a comment.

If you haven't figured it out already do your own research about RA and NA schools. Vist the DETC website. Visit the regional accreditors website. Visit the school(s) website that you're interested in. Visit the US Department of Education and CHEA's respective websites. This is where you'll find the truth.

Bill March 31, 2008 at 8:06 p.m.

CSU has made their own fake UNA web pages to promote their non-academic relationship with UNA.

Bill April 1, 2008 at 1:10 a.m.

I can tell you with ultimate authority that CSU has faked their UNA websites and have overstated their relationships with all 3 universities. I would recommend to anyone considering doing business with CSU to reconsider what they are getting into. CSU is using fraudulent tactics. A CSU education is poor at best, if it can be called a real education at all.

Walter April 1, 2008 at 1:41 a.m.

Tam,

Accept defeat and stop playing Bill!

It's over and you're digging yourself deeper by the minute! Anyone can go to UNA’s website and pull up CSU's information, and see it‘s written by UNA, not CSU! You‘re ruining your creditability and killing yourself slowly! Research your postings before you make accusations.

Tam April 1, 2008 at 2:57 a.m.

For the past month, I've talked to dozens of people about this NA/online stuff. Not one person thought it was worth much. Almost all laughed at it as some sort of a joke or thought it was illegit. I actually found NA/online to be more worthwhile that 100% of all the people I talked to about it. Public opinion doesn't think much of it now, and I don't think they will for decades to come.
BUYER BEWARE!!!

Chris April 1, 2008 at 9:18 a.m.

To All,
RA + NA * DL/ BM = BS, Education is what you make of the information given to you. Have fun and if I decide to enroll at CSU I'm certain I will speak with some of you again.

BYE, BYE

Tam documented, verifiable and fact based include all references and annotations. Hyper links are the best for this format. Try these and maybe at some point you will get people to concede to your ideals and believes. I do not think it will happen, though. I have done the research all that is being debated here I have researched and found no support for your claims. I can tell you that the DETC has a 70% tranfer rate, Jamie Littlefield said this in her journal. She also stated that th RA's are the problem.

Tic-Tac thanks for the link. Go back and reread the article. It may help clear up some things.

Jamie April 1, 2008 at 2:23 p.m.

Tam,

You keep getting dumber by the minute! You refuse to research the topic so your ignorance is your own problem. I have talked with hundreds of people about distance education including experts in the field and my fellow peers. Distance education is the wave of the future whether you like to accept it or not.

Jay April 1, 2008 at 6:18 p.m.

Jamie - These people are pulling their shenanigans on other school forums this .org as well. Reading into it a little deeper, I see a few “names” that have proven to me beyond doubt that they are putting way too much passion into these threads for personal reasons. If they are putting this much effort into these discussions for personal reasons, then they need serious therapy. Just browse other school threads and you’ll see what I mean. This entire forum is corrupted.

Jay April 1, 2008 at 7:52 p.m.

Agreed -

Agreed! (ha ha) I believe the person who created this forum had the best of intentions. I only participate here to share my personal experience about CSU and answer any questions someone may have about it. Sadly enough, there are folks out there with an "agenda" and sway the entire purpose of it. That being said, there are "bashers" on every school forum in this site. Every single school has participants that are either venting or making things up. Now that I have identified some of these people, I conclude they have no merit at all. IGNORE THEM.

Tam April 2, 2008 at 12:43 a.m.

You're welcome, Chris.
I'm glad I could be of help to you and I hope you have a bright future. Coming to terms with your wasted education is tough, but you've found a solution. Going NA/online can be the answer to salvaging what you've lost. I truly believe you will find what you're looking for in life.

As for you Jay, this isn't a forum for bestowing only blessings on non-RA CSU. I think any NA/online school stinks, but it has it's place. You think it's wonderful. So be it. I've brought Chris into the light and he's finding his answers here. Try to calm your comments and accusations and perhaps you will find the truth that you seek.

Tam April 2, 2008 at 1:46 a.m.

I really don't like finding negative press on NA/online, but if you insist.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa...

Tam April 2, 2008 at 3:07 a.m.

I knew someone would say something stupid like that. Did you read the article? It doesn't matter how old it is. That's why I don't post articles, because of that dumb come back you made. Always an excuse and a way out.

I was actually going to cool down on you jerks, but now I don't know if I shouldn't step it up a notch or two on you pin-heads. Is that what you want??? You let me know.

Time has no relevance? April 2, 2008 at 3:32 a.m.

Are you mad? The time of release defines scope, and purpose. Things have changed quite a bit in the last 6 years.

Also, this is not a credible source. No background, no educational backing; it is nothing more than a letter from the editor, or a two-bit column.

You appear to be a misinformed moron with a megaphone. Shout on r-tard!

A few more... April 2, 2008 at 4:44 a.m.

In an attempt to avoid spamming this site, try the following:

open www.dogpile.com

enter the phase "value of an online education" and go.

Credible links:
online-education.net
www.sloan-c.net
www.articles-base.com

You will find AMA/MLA formatted, referenced research papers dated in the last 2 years.

The post that has been given lacks credit, has bias, and displays more of an opinion than an argument. Do the proper research folks!

Jamie April 2, 2008 at 6:04 a.m.

Hi Ron,

If you're going to base a decision on an unsubstantial article dated back six years ago, I would suggest doing a bit more research on the topic. For starters, try these substantiated sites instead of blogger sites (Google these key words to get to the site):

(1) No Significant Difference

(2) Distance-Educator.com

Tam, you're incapable of stepping it up notch, as your postings make it readily apparent. Why don't you look into better use of your time and actually get an education. Maybe what you need is an NA school to teach you a thing or two because you're so called "RA gold standard" school you represent is an embarrassment.

CSU Student April 2, 2008 at 9:50 a.m.

Step it up Tam instead of stepping back. Stop bringing up old stuff. This is 2008, not 2002. Tam, I was always taught to move forward instead of backwards. Your RA education didn't teach you that? Are you jealous because you got passed over for a job for someone who had a CSU degree? Are you mad because you spent alot of money for your education, and the CSU student received a better education for a cheaper price? Did you fail out of CSU? What has this school done to you? Why you mad Tam? You obviously have something personal against CSU. Is it just PMS? Come on Tam, what is the problem. You can tell me. Let's get down to the bottom of this. Maybe I can help you.

Jamie April 2, 2008 at 2:49 p.m.

Tam,

You're the truth dectector, huh? It's your "duty" to tell the truth. You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. Get over yourself!

You've exposed nothing but lies and demeaning comments to NA students and graduates. You don't have a clue as to the academic partnerships that CSU has established. CSU assists in the marketing efforts and enrollment for UNA's online degree programs. UNA, UWA, UWF have all partnered with CSU because they know CSU is a leader in delivering distance education. There are no "fake websites" associating these partnerships.

Here comes the mud slinging; Tam, you're down right pathetic and really need to expand your education. You're obviously disgruntled about something.

Chris April 2, 2008 at 10:13 p.m.

Hi again,

I can't help but to continue and return to this forum for an update. It seems that some continue to deny the current research and surveys. But we won't go there this time around. I know what I know. My current empoyer will offer tuition reimbursement for NA (DETC) degrees. They do also hire NA graduates. This information is current as of today, April 2, 2008.

My employer is not a mom and pop shop either. It is a publically traded US and international company. It is also a large government contractor. Those are the facts. Now in my opinion, I would think if they will accept a degree from a NA online institute then I will not have to worry about the rest. Reason being I do not plan on leaving any time soon, unless I am forced to.

By the way Tam that was a good article, well written by the author. It also had very good citations and references, AWESOME. You really proved me wrong, you can actually do some limited research. Any more that are as up to date as the links that Jamie, Walter and "a few more" have posted? I would appreciate them.

Okay, I'll go for now, I can't waste too much time here anymore. I think I'll go get an education.

Oops, I have just one more question. Tam when did you prove false web pages and links to the UNA, UWA and UWF sites? I must have missed that one. But once again, I know what I know. I can go to those sites and find CSU. I don't even have to google them, and neither do you Tam. www.UNA.edu www.UWA.edu www.UWF.edu

Tam April 3, 2008 at 3:06 a.m.

Thanks, Chris for posting those links to UNA...etc. Now enter those sights thru CSU links and you get the fake homepage that splashes CSU's name on it. I don't think CSU needs to stoop to such levels.

CSU can help so many working people who haven't finished a degree. If they're not in close proximity to a traditional RA college, why not look into CSU? Better to finish up at an NA school than regretting you dropped out. And there could be some job advancement possibilites.

Tam April 3, 2008 at 3:47 a.m.

Okay, I'll try again.

CSU can help so many working people who haven't finished a degree. If they're not in close proximity to a traditional RA college, why not look into CSU? Better to finish up at a fine NA school (like CSU) than regretting you dropped out of that sorry ol' RA school. And there could be some job advancement possibilites.

Better?

Jay April 3, 2008 at 5:15 a.m.

looks like I have an imposter. Oh well, I do agree with with "Jay" to some extent.

More info April 3, 2008 at 6:25 p.m.

If people want an expert opinion about NA vs Ra which is not the issue in this forum should visit this forum http://forums.degreeinfo.com/ instead, the folks there should educated those with lack of information or knowledge for that matter ( I believe tic tac or Pam will not last a day debating there) but if they think they can handle the real heat they should stop there to get educated.

But in any even event this issue about NA vs RA is a dead horse and people participating here should ignore this trolls that keep bringing useless discussions that leads to nothing. If you keep feeding them they will continue to come for their daily meals of bs.

WOW April 4, 2008 at 5:45 a.m.

For the first time, Tam finally posted something that I agree with. :)

WOW April 6, 2008 at 2:09 p.m.

School interfere with education? I don't get it.

Sid Vicious April 7, 2008 at 7:13 p.m.

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy! (screw Mark Twain)

WOW April 8, 2008 at 12:01 p.m.

Okay. It seems like I just got schooled by S. haha. I might become a CSU student soon. I've already submitted my application and looking forward to talking to a counselor. I must admit that I was one of those people that thought online schooling was "worthless." Visiting this site actually helped me decide to enroll with CSU. If the ONLY negative thing people have to say about CSU is NA accreditation, then that is not really saying much. The NSA accept CSU degrees. That tells me right there that CSU must not be as worthless as some people on this site think it is.

A. Einstein April 8, 2008 at 2:53 p.m.

"An education is what you have after you have forgotten everything you learned in school"

Steven April 9, 2008 at 6:31 a.m.

If you continue posting off topic your IP will be banned.

Staff

Winslow April 11, 2008 at 7:22 a.m.

One other point - you will see references to RA schools acceptance of DETC and other NA credits that are also ACE approved. It is the fact of the ACE approval of the course that leads to acceptance by the regionals; DETC accreditation is neither here nor there. That is to say, it is irrelevant in consideration of acceptance.

Winslow

CSU student almost done April 11, 2008 at 11:50 p.m.

Jammie:
The trolls must be ignore at all cost. They don't know what they are talking about. They do not add anything constructive to the discussion here. They just come here to feed.

Winslow April 12, 2008 at 3:39 a.m.

Again, I refer you to the official ultimate authority on this, the FBI employment handbook. What someone may write on a web site may have currency unless contradicted by official policy.

http://www.fbi.gov/employment/booklet/ge...

In any case, regardless, arguments made that "RA or NA - it's all the same", when it come to acceptance of degrees or college credits, are simply bogus and irresponsible. DETC accreditation, which is the NA most will encounter, is simply not as good as RA, when it comes to utility. If you want a degree that will be universally recognized and accepted in the U.S. and abroad, earn it at a regionally accredited institution.

Does DETC merit equal standing with RA? It may do, or it may not, it’s immaterial to the question of utility. You can advance the virtues of DETC credentials without fatuous claims to their worth that are not supported by the empirical data.

These days, the range of costs and convenience of DETC and RA schools products, overlap. The programs of a school like Columbia Southern could be superior to most RA schools programs – it would not matter in terms of the potential usefulness of the degree credential earned. The very worst RA school’s degrees will have more clout, more often, in more environments, with greater assurance of acceptance, than ANY degree from a DETC school, no matter how worthy. There may be occasions and circumstances in which a DETC diploma will be looked upon more favorably, relative to RA, but such happenings are rare, and the exception that proves the rule.

Winslow

Jamie April 12, 2008 at 4:47 a.m.

And your referenced booklet is dated back to 1997. Times have changed in the last decade. I feel pretty confident the FBI is not mis-representing their educational requirements for their positions on their very active website. I've called them personally and know this to be true.

The transfer of credit debate is an old horse. There will always be challenges in transferring credits to other institutions regardless of who their accredited by. I've been able to transfer to many highly regarded universities with my DETC degree. There have been some that have turned me down as well. Such is life!

If there was such a "lack of acceptance" why has DETC flourished for the last 80+ years? Why aren't the 140 million graduates over the last century lobbying complaints to the U.S. Department of Education, CHEA or even DETC? Why is there currently 4 million students currently enrolled in DETC schools?

You can insinuate lack of utility until you go blue in the face. Where the rubber meets the road is what DETC graduates are doing after they graduate. With the satisfaction rating in the high 90 percentile I think the lack of utility is not the DETC degree, but the individual(s) issue. Just because you get a degree doesn’t mean you’re automatically entitled to success.

And what does this mean and where are you getting your facts:

"DETC institutions produce their own courseware, the process of assessment of the standards of production, is often vague, and detailed audits unavailable."

I highly recommend you compare DETC and RA accreditation standards and see what you discover. You might be surprised.

DETC accreditation is just as valid as any regional accreditation, and the Secretary of Education has officially recognized DETC since 1959 and by the Council for Higher Education and its predecessors since 1975. They meet the precisely same standards as do the regionals, and have vastly more experience and tougher, more stringent standards for distance learning than any other agency in the U.S. or for that matter, the world, as they're the only recognzied accreditor that focuses only on distance learning.

Jeff April 12, 2008 at 4:50 p.m.

The "RA" vs. "NA" debate is over. Let each individual student make up their own mind to attend the school of their choice.

Jay April 12, 2008 at 7:21 p.m.

I agree with Jeff - The debate about NA vs. RA is over! This subject has been debated to the point where there is really nothing left to say. NA and RA accreditation BOTH serve a purpose and so long a school is recognized by the DOE and CHEA it really does not matter.

Jay April 13, 2008 at 1:15 a.m.

Tam said "Don't blame RA/B&M people for sticking up for their schools. They aren't trying to knock your chip off, but they won't get steam-rolled either."

We don't need you to stick up for your school Tam. This thread isn't about RA/B&M people and it certainly isn't about your need to defend your education. This thread isn't about or for you so you take a hike!

to CSU students April 13, 2008 at 8:25 p.m.

CSU... halfway between diploma mill and a REAL RA school.

CHEA Diploma Mill standards CSU qualifies for...

1) Is little if any attendance required of students?

It's 100% online, you never have to leave your house even for a residency requirement.

2) Are few assignments required for students to earn credits?

Course work is a piece of cake.

3) Is a very short period of time required to earn a degree?

As just stated... less than 12 months.

4) Are degrees available based largely on experience or resume review?

You can finish in 12 months and they take "Life Experience"

5) Are there few requirements for graduation?

Just BS a bunch of papers and wham!

6) Is the fee so low that it does not appear relative to the cost of providing legitimate education?

As just stated a Bachelors for under $5,000.

7) Does the operation fail to provide any information about a campus and relies on a post office box?

CSU address:
25326 Canal Road
P.O. Box 3110
Orange Beach, AL 36561

8) Does the operation fail to provide a list of its faculty and their qualifications?

They do provide a list but 90% of those on it graduated from online universities!!!

9) Does the operation have a name similar to other well-known colleges and universities?

Columbia University... DUH!

10) Does the operation make claims in its publications for which there is no evidence?

At the top of it's webiste is clearly reads "CSU – The Premier Online University for Distance Learning."

Considering their are ranked programs with RA available it clearly isn't.

-- Sorry folks but you signed up for a cross between a diploma mill and a shoddy education. --

If you make such bad decisions and put that on a résumé employers will know you only take the easy way out.

Joe April 13, 2008 at 10:49 p.m.

I don't know about the first half of the list but the second half bothers me. If that is what defines diploma mills then the only thing seperating CSU from one is accreditation. What exactly does DETC do to accredit distance education providers that is so rigorous?

Joe April 14, 2008 at 12:41 a.m.

They probably come from Australia, last week you could buy a CSU Bachelors for under $5,000 AU. It is really sad our currency has hit such lows. The USD used to be worth almost twice theirs. It does look weird that they take 50% transfer credit into the masters level when regular schools only take 10%. When I was researching the DBA I heard you can complete it in as little as 8 months. This is scary.

mark twain April 14, 2008 at 8:20 a.m.

Steve, what is the topic?

S April 15, 2008 at 6:26 a.m.

Joe,

Last time I checked you could only "transfer" 9 hrs toward an MBA at CSU. 9/36=25%.

Not sure where you got 50% could transfer.

Chris,

I am with you on the $5K 12 month question. Where is this place or maybe we should "Follow the Yellow Brick Road"

I've already got two RA degrees but for $5K that is a real deal...LOL (third time is a charm)

Jeff April 15, 2008 at 10:54 p.m.

CSU allows maximum transfer credit for your prior academic credits, training experience and relevant professional licenses and certifications. Up to 75 percent of undergraduate courses and 50 percent of graduate courses can be transferred into your degree program. Students are allowed to transfer in 15 percent of coursework into the DBA program.

Academic Credit
CSU accepts transfer academic credit from institutions accredited by agencies recognized by the U.S. Secretary of Education and/or the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA). For prior undergraduate academic credit to be eligible for transfer grades earned must be a “C” or higher. However, a maximum of three courses in which a “D” was earned may be considered during the admission process. “D’s” are not accepted as transfer credit for English Composition I, II or their equivalent. For prior academic credit to be eligible for transfer at the master’s degree level, grades earned must be a “B” or higher. However, a maximum of one course in which a “C” was earned may be considered for acceptance.

Joe April 17, 2008 at 4:44 a.m.

Well, I don't know why they don't link to the actual webpage but you will find that each of the homesites are partners with CSU for distance learning.

Chris April 17, 2008 at 9:42 a.m.

Try one thing for me. If you can do this and It don't work then I am sorry. Go to UNA, UWA use the search engine that is on there site, you should be able to find what you need. If you don't then let me know and I will hand walk you through the process.

Do you actually think that a major college would allow this, if were not legit? I am sure that these supposed "FAKE" home pages have been brought to the attention of these Universities. If you think differently please feel free to contact the university and tell them. I don't have to because I have personally taken the time to completely review and research the sites.

Additionally, no it is not legal to link to a school and claim partnerships. That would be considered false advertisement and it could also be deemed fraud. If the Universities have not taken legal action then you can rest assured that it is legit. Please let me know if I can be of any more assistance to you personally.

Dave April 17, 2008 at 8:27 p.m.

CSU has absolutely no academic connection to those RA schools. Okay, it's probably not illegal since CSU has some TEENY TINY association with them, but CSU created their own FAKE homepages to play themselves up.

CSU appears to be a good online DE school from what I read, but this sounds like a lame attempt at trying to legitimize a goofy correspondence school with it's puny NA accreditation.

I'm dumb? What was that again? You want a piece of me?

Dave April 18, 2008 at 3:12 a.m.

Validate my claim??? Baseless debate??? Proof???
WHAT? Do you have eyes?
All you have to do is enter their homepages from the CSU site and VOILA! THAT'S PROOF! They sure as heck aren't homepages constructed by those colleges! Get real! Any moron can make that deduction....unless you're a CSU grad. Quit challenging me on this. CSU constructs FAKE homepages for those colleges they have a so-called "association" with. Accept it and move on! You people are Pi$$in' me off!

Jamie April 18, 2008 at 4:33 a.m.

Dave,

In addition, your comments of CSU's "puny NA accreditation" is unwarranted, baseless and invalid. The accreditation debate has been beaten to death, so put it to rest and stop with the verbal insults.

Chris April 18, 2008 at 9:08 a.m.

Dave,

Obviously you have no proof of your claim because you are beginning to use hostility. Now follow these instructions very carefully. If you miss a step it will throw you into a combative rage and you will want to fight.

1. Go to UNA's home page. www.UNA.edu

2. Click on the Distance Learning button.

3. Follow the Online MBA link. (on the left side 3rd down the menu of links.)

4. At this point scroll down the page. Just below the paragraph that explains the online MBA you will find several links most of these lead you to pages that were developed by UNA and CSU in cooperation.

5. Finally, click on the last link in the list "Columbia Southern University." This link will take you to the home page which is the same one that you get from CSU. It is not fake, it is not developed by CSU alone, and it is there for anyone to see.

Now take note at the top under the University of North Alabama heading you will see a statement that has CSU's name in it.

There you have it. Now leave this debate alone, unless you can show me real proof. I require supporting documents, referenced articles disclosing the association, and links to the evidence you have uncovered in your research. At that point we can move on to UWA,

Thank you have fun and until you have something real this debate is done. Voila and C'est la vi

Please no more hostility it is nothing more than a childs pouting to gain attention.

Rich,
I cannot discredit your claim. I am sorry you feel the way you do, but I am hoping that I won't feel the same when I am finished. I plan on becoming a CSU student in the next few weeks. I have read to many good reviews not to atleast give it a shot. Thank you for your post, I know to approach with caution.

Do not feed the Trolls! April 18, 2008 at 1:10 p.m.

Do not feed the Trolls!

Chris April 18, 2008 at 5:53 p.m.

Thanks for all the polite comments. I never said anything about national accrditation as great. I do think it is equal (My Opinion). Now, I have not ignored what you said. You said that CSU does not have acaemic partnerships with the said universities. So, listen to what I am saying, follow the 5 simple steps that I have laid out. If you will do so then you will find the same page there as the link on CSU's website. If you can prove otherwise, I will go away. I need documented proof not your opinion. Thanks and have a nice day.

Chris April 18, 2008 at 6:57 p.m.

I will not go away until you can give me "DOCUMENTED" proof. I really hate getting into debates such as this, but I also hate when people make claims that they can't back up with proof. So give me some links to your proof "DOCUMENTD" proof and I will go away.

Win-slow,

I am still waiting for your university.

Dave April 18, 2008 at 8:24 p.m.

Chris,
For the last time>
From the CSU homepage, if you enter one of the university homepages CSU links, you will NOT get that schools real homepage. PERIOD!

If you don't believe me, do a yahoo or google search on each of those 3 universities and enter their sights from there. BOING! It's their REAL homepage. WOW! REALLY??? Yes, CSU is pulling a fast one.

AGAIN, I don't care about any process you mention about getting to a page that mentions CSU from THEIR sight. Moot point. Now, please stop trying to find a cute way of justifying what CSU has done.

As for the previous commenter. CSU is not a diploma mill. It falls into that "tweener" category between diploma mills and regionally accredited schools.

Walter April 18, 2008 at 11:54 p.m.

Do not feed the Trolls is absolutely right!!!!!!

Give up ladies and gentlemen! This CSU’s page has been corrupted and no longer serves the purpose (information gathering and structured debate) it was attended to serve. It lacks a mediator for one thing and topic distinctions. My suggestion, develop your own forum on CSU’s website like PSU, CSU, CNU and other online colleges with logins. Potential students will inquire through the university anyway and usually base their decisions on their own research. Thanks!

See ya’ll later!!!!!

PS: If you ask me, all these forums are corrupted! Just read what potential students are posting after reading various arguments (between the haves and have-nots) on the various blogs.

Chris April 19, 2008 at 10:03 a.m.

Okay, Dave I see your point. If you go through CSU's website you go to a page other than UNA's homepage. Now see my point. If you go through the steps I laid out for you, you'll get to the exact same page.

Since you cannot link me to an area that documents any discreditation to the partnership I'll stop asking you to. I'll let this debate die due to lack of desire to continue debating a topic that I have researched and found true. Also, I don't want to put anyone through the hardship of stepping out of their comfort zone, meaning actually doing research to find supporting documents to show to people.

So Long Dave enjoy life.

Jamie April 20, 2008 at 7:29 p.m.

I've worked as a senior manager for nearly a decade in the loss prevention / risk management industry. I am now a police detective handling all major crimes, high technology crime and background investigations. I've worked partol, field training officer, SWAT operator, sniper and investigations. I am also an adjunct professor at two universities and one community college.

CSU graduates consist of police chiefs, federal law enforcement personnel, business owners, executives, ect.

S April 21, 2008 at 12:48 a.m.

Rich, et al,

You guys are funny. I enjoy reading the posts on this site because you are trying to justify something you won't ever be.

Smith & Barney and Fortune 500 executives... LOL

Most folks on here are working folks with families trying to get ahead and make a better life... not to become Donald Trump.

Get a life

Jamie,

I am on your side. CSU is ok. It will never be a Harvard or Yale and it never claimed to be but it helps adults meet their goals.

Chris April 21, 2008 at 9:29 a.m.

Rich,
I have one question, have you attended CSU?

Dave April 21, 2008 at 6:01 p.m.

Intended purpose???
This is an open forum all for:
The good
The bad
The truth
The facts
The experiences
The impressions
The perseptions
>>>This is NOT a forum for the sole purpose of promoting or selling CSU.

Chris April 22, 2008 at 9:14 a.m.

Rich,

Thank You. Atleast someone posted here with an opinion based on experience and not perception. I will take your information into account. I will say this, Smith Barney and Fortune 500 execs. are far and few between and many from elite schools have been passed over. When you get to that level experience plays a much larger role than schooling.

Please don't take me the wrong way. I am not trying to debate with you. I just think that looking at jobs of that caliber is going far beyond any level of education. Anyway, thanks for the information.

tic tac April 22, 2008 at 6:35 p.m.

It depends on what you go for... a CSU degree in Criminal Justice, Occupation Safety, or Fire Science will probably help your career. An MBA from CSU won't do a thing for you.

Dave April 22, 2008 at 9:14 p.m.

Jay, I'm not sure what part of the economy you're employed in, but you'd be an extreme exception in my realm. I'm not saying you're overstating, but believe me when I tell you that you'd probably get nowhere in my company and it's peer competitors. Where you are, I'd bet you would be under consideration for a management job with loads of experience and only a BA/BS. It used to be that way here.

With all due respect, since you admitted that you have a regular BA/BS and lots of experience, I don't believe your CSU MBA got you anything. It sure wouldn't here. In fact, you'd be ostracized. I'd be careful before I ventured off into distant education. If you have a good career map in your employment realm that welcomes this kind of education, then by all means go for it. Just make sure in advance. It's not too common in my world.

Jamie April 23, 2008 at 2:49 p.m.

Your opportunities don't are not surrounded by an AACSB MBA. It's up to you to create opportunities for yourself. Get over the fact that just because you have an AACSB MBA the flood gates for success will open up. You need to dig a lot deeper then that!

Current Student Almost Done April 23, 2008 at 2:59 p.m.

Tic tac so the truth is resurfacing you are bitter and angry with CSU. I don't like the school more than you, but does not gives me the right to go out in crusade to tarnish the bloody school.

I only have one class left and I won't recommended to any anyone I know or ask me about but I won't bad mouth either despite all the stuff they got wrong and have not fix yet. I would not ever participate in anything after I am done with the school not even as alumni. (I see both ends to be as bad, the one that vividly advocate the school and those that are in a mission to discredit). It just create conflict.

But I can tell you this the school is not as bad as Argosy University or University of Phoenix which I was a student in both school, and that is money in the trash.

CSU has in a way provide affordable education to some and means for some to get an education due to time and distance retrains. Granted is not the best but at least a legal alternative for an education, work for them or not. It did not work for me but at least I will be able to decor my wall.

tic tac April 23, 2008 at 10:54 p.m.

@Current Student Almost Done

I do have a bitter taste in my mouth from CSU. I flushed two grand down the toilet. I think that gives me the right.

tic tac April 24, 2008 at 6:22 a.m.

Texas does not recognize DETC accreditation... period! Get over your vain attempts to defend the accreditation. Texas, the second largest state in the Union, considers it "substandard" as do many other RA schools. Many DETC schools even consider RA superior to themselves, which is a whole third, will not accept transfer credits. The FBI will not accept DETC degrees as well as many other state and federal positions. These are serious issues people need to know and will thank us for, especially if you live in Texas.

Please post a link to the legislation that is changing Texas law... if you can.

Jamie April 24, 2008 at 2:22 p.m.

I cannot post anything regarding the change in Texas, as it is still being dealt with. I can tell you the change should take place this year and this is due to Texas being sued for their ignorance about accreditation.

As for the FBI, they DO accept degree(s) from national and regional accrediting agencies. PLEASE DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE POSTING SUCH REHEORIC!

Jamie April 24, 2008 at 5:29 p.m.

Tic Tac,

Why don't you post something that is after 1997, nearly 11 years ago. Go to the FBI website under the employment section for special agent. The educational requirements are as quoted,

"You must possess a four-year degree from a college or university accredited by one of the regional or national institutional associations recognized by the United States Secretary of Education."

http://www.fbijobs.gov/111.asp

I was actually applying for the FBI prior to local law enforcement. My CSU degree was accepted for their educational requirements.

Jay April 24, 2008 at 7:59 p.m.

Jamie -

I suggest that you no longer waste your time and energy dealing with this participant. All validity and merit this person had is gone! I know your participation has been honest and with the best intention to provide sound advice or guidance to any potential or inquiring student, not just sales pitching CSU. Keep your original focus and don't acknowledge those who have alterior motives on this site.

Well, well, well April 25, 2008 at 12:22 a.m.

Buck, Joe, Tam, Tic Tac and Dave! (All in the family!)

Why so bitter? Did an online DETC grad take your promotion?

Maybe it was an online RA grad and you're taking it out on all DL grads!!!!

Real grads don't attack other schools; we're to busy making money with our degrees!!!!!!!!!

PS: Get a life!!!!!

Air Force E8 April 25, 2008 at 4:38 a.m.

Joe,

Sounds like you are the big man at work. But then again you can be anyone you want to be online.

However, if you were an officer then that explains a lot. Most officers don't really get it until they hit Major or Lt Col. They don't have the technical expertise to get the job done. That is why they always take their SNCOs with them to meetings. It's the Senior Enlisted that keep their butts out of hot water. After all, a SNCOs job is to take a young Lt or Capt under their wing to teach them how things work so they can be an effective leader. Many young officers don’t get it and think they are in charge. I have seen numerous E-9s shut the door behind a young Lt and let them know who is really in charge.

If you were an officer then you would have done some DL through the military to keep up on your professional development. So you of all people should know the value of DL. Most officers "tick the box" through DL so they can get promoted.

You may be the boss but you wouldn't be where you are without the knowledge of the others. Don't forget where your life came from... because that my friend will come back and bite you!!

There is a difference between a leader and a manager…

From your response it seems like you lean more toward a manager.

Joe April 25, 2008 at 5:45 a.m.

I went to The Citadel and rode out a tour that paid off my loans. I knew full well to respect my senior NCOs because JOs cannot gain the respect of their men without them. I took the time to know those under my command the same as I do in my company. You get much better productivity from people that respect you rather than despise you.

You may get snot-nosed O-1s who disregard their non-coms but they are still in charge. Anyone who disrespected the chain of command was made an example of, whether it be an E-1, E-9, or O-5. My CO wouldn't allow that garbage to fly especially from E-9s as I believe none would. If you lose the chain of command all hell will break loose. If an SNCO shut the door in my face when he is supposed to be saluting my CO would suspend his pay for a month. Senior non-coms are supposed to set the example and if they start showing their butt they will be made an example of. That kind of insibordination isn't tolerated in any unit I have ever heard of.

I wasn't too concerned with promotion as I wasn't career or even doing my twenty. I was automatically promoted with time served till the day I got out. I have full respect for people with TA DL degrees which is why I consider hiring military regardless of degree. It doesn't mean I respect or disrespect the degree, it is just a qualification these people need for the job. There aren't really any high profile schools offered on the SOC list for tuition assistance and I know that. They can only take what is offered. Now, if they have the opportunity to use their top up money at better schools I will ask why they didn't get something better.

If you are trying to disect my leadership qualities from a two hundred word post you are being far too presumptive. As I stated prior, respect is how I lead in the military and it is how I lead in the corporate world. I reward those who work hard for me which is why people my VP wanted me to lay-off still have jobs. I don't have petty cash because I give it in bonuses and awards. I get reemed because I spend too much on my people but I'm still here because happy employees are productive employees.

Well, well, well April 25, 2008 at 11:46 p.m.

Hey Joe,

You're all right by me! You're more open minded than previously thought. On the other hand, Dave’s as closed minded as a mule crossing a racetrack!!!

By the way, since we’re utilizing the mine’s better than yours concept, wouldn’t you say B&M BSBA & MBA (both AACSB accredited) degrees are better than all those none accredited B&M business schools put together. I’m not talking about the liberal arts major (BA) that received his AACSB accredited MBA either. I’m referring to the AACSB accredited BSBA Accounting degree grads with an AACSB accredited MBA! Are you hiring them?

From reading Jamie’s posts, that’s where it ends right? Only the best, not mere B&M RA grads!

Well, well, well April 26, 2008 at 11:18 p.m.

Now let me get this straight, AACSB won’t win you over but RA B&M will? Isn’t that using different standards than all the online haters have been illustrating? If AACSB isn’t considered the “Gold Standard” amongst business schools, why is RA considered the “Gold Standard” amongst institutions? That would suggest we’re not using standards but preference! Why, because academia considers AACSB top notch in the business world. Furthermore, this goes back to what Jamie and the others have been saying all along! It falls on the potential students to weight all options, and what meets their goals.

Joe April 26, 2008 at 11:45 p.m.

The lesson I would tell people is, get a professionally accredited degree if you can. That tells employers your program goes above and beyond the basics. If you can't, find the cheapest option. That appears to be CSU.

tic tac April 27, 2008 at 12:41 a.m.

Well Joe, if those really are your credentials you must be unemployed to think NA is equal to RA. No VP would keep you hiring unqualified people who took the easy way out. I doubt if you were ever in the military much less went to The Citadel. You probably fell out of a wannabe tree and went to CSU just like the rest of these enrollment counselors.

Well, well, well April 27, 2008 at 1:27 a.m.

Joe,

You're all right by me!

I’ve read these posts, and discovered half these online haters are the underachievers in my opinion. DL grads have shown the initiative and continued their education. These losers attack them because they can’t or won’t follow suit. Or they think their RA degree’s better but lack the professional accreditation at both the undergrad and/or graduate level. As you stated, without professional accreditation they’re the same. Try transferring those RA only undergrad credits to an AACSB nationally ranked school. If your school’s undergrad wasn’t AACSB accredited, my school’s MBA program required you to take additional core business courses.

PS: I believe you attended the Citadel! Unlike the others, you put your credentials up front! The only others doing so were the DL grads and/or attendees!

Dave April 27, 2008 at 1:21 p.m.

Lets stick with the truth.
CSU is attemping expansion because of it's lame NA status that provided just enough leverage to motivate the government's willingness to pay for this so-called "education". (Only if you are a current government employee receiving your paycheck from taxpayer money).

Education is about substance. CSU has NO substance. In my realm it has no credibility. In fact, it would get you ridiculed. I speak with 30+ years authority in real non-governmental industry. (Yes, we're the real America - the revenue side of America)

Jamie April 27, 2008 at 2:27 p.m.

Thank you for your service Joe. Don't let all these detractors change your opinion of NA grads. We are all just as good if not better than RA grads. RA schools allow huge portions of their athletics departments to cheat in order to play ball. NA schools don't allow such wholesale fraud and are far superior to RA schools in honor and integrity. NA students have to be motivated in order to succeed. We don't have people spoonfeeding us information. We have to seek it and apply it or fail. You can see from the RA losers (besides Joe and Well,well) that they will stoop to ad hominem attacks on our benevolent institution of higher learning to justify their own bad decisions. When they learn that the $50k they spent on their overpriced education could have been had for $7k at CSU has them crapping their pants.

Dave April 28, 2008 at 12:51 a.m.

OK..OK
Stop with the NA & RA thing.
We ALL know RA is FAR superior.
The good thing about CSU is what it can offer a student that has no access to RA. Too bad, because they will get an inferior "education" (if you can call it that) but it will be boost to their self esteem (for a while until they figure out they got ripped!) and it will give them the good feeling of putting more profit money in the Mayes' family bank account in Alabama. (Yeah, they own this rip-off "business".)

Chris April 28, 2008 at 9:54 a.m.

To ?????,

Since we are talking about how good BM and RA schools are and how there degrees are far better than DL, let us all gather the information that has just hit the newstands regarding an unearned degree from WVU. The provost of WVU has resigned because of this. Oops my bad I guess this is just one case of the many others, so it will be okay. Right? I have only heard of a miniscule number of legal actions being taken against DL schools, but I have heard of many such actions like this in the BM realm.

Okay, now Dave I'm sure that you have already got your defense for this one. But the FACT remains if one has gotten caught, how many have not? This tells me that there a whole lot of people walking around with bogus degrees from a regular college, as it has been referred to so many times. Then again as long as it is a degree from a BM RA school it is okay surely they can do what is required of them with that piece of paper.

We shall see.

to Chris April 28, 2008 at 7:22 p.m.

What does the WVU story have to do with DL? The dean tried to pass out a free MBA to the governors daughter.

Chris April 28, 2008 at 9:54 p.m.

Oh yeah Dave, I am not here to defend CSU. As of yet I am not a student there. I have attended an RA school and a regular one at that. So I do know what RA traditional schools have to offer. My question for you is, are the DL RA schools inferior also?

Dave April 29, 2008 at 5:37 p.m.

DL RA schools are superior to DL NA.
On a Penn State diploma, it doesn't mention DL if you get it that way. Same as when they had "night schools" - your diploma didn't say "night school" on it.

It's a stigma thing. Standards and reputation mean things. NA isn't ready for that.

Dave April 29, 2008 at 7:36 p.m.

Who's bashing night school????
I took lots of night classes to get my RA degree. I'm just saying the RA diploma doesn't differentiate. THAT'S A GOOD THING. The reputation of an RA school like Penn State preceeds it. Sorry, but NA isn't there yet. Maybe someday.

You NA dudes are soooo mean! I'm (snif snif) hurt by all of these (snif snif) mean NA people calling me an idiot and such. I expect an apology...and it better be a good one....make it snappy....lol.

Do not feed the Trolls! May 3, 2008 at 3:19 p.m.

Do not feed the Trolls!

Do not feed the Trolls! May 6, 2008 at 12:18 a.m.

Do not keep feeding them!

Cory May 12, 2008 at 9:31 p.m.

Anyone complete the criminal justice degree? How is this degree (CSU) looked upon by police agencies? Seems like CSU caters more towards police and firefighters. Thanks for any input.

Jeff May 16, 2008 at 11:23 a.m.

Columbia Southern University was the answer to my dream of fulfilling my desire to complete a graduate degree in Criminal Justice. CSU, I thank you for being there!!!

OZ May 27, 2008 at 7:02 p.m.

Good people will do well with an on-line degree, not so good people will do not so well. The I don't think most employers know the difference between RA and NA. Personnaly, if I could go to a traditional school, I would - there is less of a stigma. However, I would go to the on-line if my work/family schedule would not allow it. If you go on-line, you have less of an opportunity to network. Which is part of your educational institution, whether you value or make use of it. The online programs that do best in my area have occasional seminars or work groups for face to face meetings with students and educators. One thing, I do like about on-line is that these courses are auditable. They can be reviewed and enhanced, which is not always the case with a tenured professor.

Learn the skills and keep enhancing once you're in the workforce, that is the ticket. I always think about the scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz - you won't have any more talent once you get the piece of paper.

My company typically hires on-line degrees at a lower salary and those employees are typically graded harsher. Like a walk-on versus a high draft pick, managment is going to work harder to make the person with the pedigree successful; whereas, the less respected school alumni has to continually prove themselves. In the end, it is the quality of the employee and not the quality of the degree. Unfortunately, not all employers will allow you to step through the door.

tic tac May 29, 2008 at 6:26 p.m.

If you don't believe us about tranfering DETC credits there are schools that specifically don't accept them.

web.pacific.edu/x16158.xml

Links are disabled... copy and paste into browser

Jamie May 29, 2008 at 9:34 p.m.

Tic Tac,

Just because the tuition rate is reasonable at CSU doesn't mean there is a lack of academic quality. You're the lone sole talking about the feedback and customer service. Quite honestly, you hear the complete opposite from graduates and students. Take a look at the professors at CSU and you'll see a mix of people from traditional and online schools, which I think is best, especially for online programs.

By the way, I just was accepted into Seton Hall University with my BSBA and MBA from CSU, where I'll be pursuing a second master's program. My acceptance letter said they were very impressed with my academic background.

Seton Hall University is one of the country’s top 125 universities. They were also named one of the top 110 universities in the nation by Choosing the Right College — a guidebook that lists Seton Hall alongside Harvard, Yale, MIT and other ivy league schools.

Tic Tac...if you spent as much time working towards something positive as you do whining about CSU you might get somewhere in life.

Jamie May 30, 2008 at 6:02 a.m.

Tic Tac,

I'd like to insult your intelligence, but I'm afraid I'll have to go after something else. Your arrogance is pathetic and reeks of a 'higher than thou" pretentious attitude. I am so proud you're a CPA who thinks your one achievement trumps over CSU professors. Do you actually read what you type before you hit the "submit" button?

As for the glorious US News and World report they are not, nor have they ever been, the "elitist" system for higher education. You're going to base an institutions reputation on a ranking system from a magazine? If you knew anything about it you'd know there's quite a bit of controversy regarding their so called "rating" system.

Maybe you never got a nice letter because no college or university had anything nice to say about your background or lack thereof. Seton Hall is extremely selective in accepting applicants into their programs, so I am honestly proud to have been selected based on my total package which included my academics, professional background, references, entrance exam, ect.

If it makes you feel superior to insult individuals’ educational background with your nonsensical comments then you truly have proven to be a bottom feeder elitist. I usually don't like to stereotype people, but you just don't have any depth. You're direct proof that it's possible to stop growing as a person.

You're so fixated on school rankings it’s hard to believe you've actually worked towards an education. Some of the smartest people in the world never attended college or maybe went to some unknown non-brand name school. There are also lots of bright people that go to well known schools as well. But, when people try to rank their intelligence meter or "look at how smart I am" on what school they attended and/or graduated from then that individual is extremely shallow and a narrow minded elitist, which will result in many challenges for their future.

Bottom Feeder May 30, 2008 at 7:55 a.m.

Tic Tac,

No offense, but for someone with the credentials you claim to possess, you write and express yourself in a juvenile manner. Also, your opinions and facts about accreditation, quality of education from different universities and employer’s perspective on degrees is more than a little off mark. Honestly, not too many people respect, agree with or believe your rhetoric in this particular forum. Quit humiliating yourself. It’s perfectly acceptable to provide a counter view or debate CSU in this forum, but stop the insults and provide better arguments.

Jamie May 30, 2008 at 5:35 p.m.

Tic Tac,

You're absolutely right by saying the world is a competitive place and you should set yourself in advantageous position. But, the way you're going about it is all wrong and as someone already stated, you're portraying yourself in a juvenile manner showing a strong lack of intelligence by degrading others on where and how they earned their respective education.

If you think you're smarter then everyone else, so be it. Good luck with all that! The old saying, "the only person dumber then the person who thinks they know it all is the one who argues with him" is coming to heart and the realization that this quote makes me think that I'm actually degrading my intelligence for even engaging you in conversation.

I can only hope that you'll give some thought about what's been written on this forum. Just remember that your attitude will most definitely dictate your altitude in life.

tic tac May 30, 2008 at 7:31 p.m.

Because they're inferior and people need to know it. Make me waste a few thousand dollars and see what I say about you.

tic tac May 31, 2008 at 7:18 a.m.

I already finished an AACSB accredited MBA thank you very much. I'm sorry you wasted so much at HPU but anyone could have told you a 3rd tier region school is a waste of money. CSU was an unknown quantity so I decided to give it a try... I got burned. You're happy with it so you're here to praise the institution... I'm not so I'm here to tell the downsides. Telling me to do something more productive with my time when you spend far more pumping the university is laughable.

@Joe June 2, 2008 at 1:25 a.m.

-Because they are the only measure we have. In a historical sense, even our Ivy-League schools are in their infancy.

@Joe June 2, 2008 at 2:57 p.m.

"The list of data we have is long."

Which are all no older than the USA itself. Show me one (just one) american school (or data point) that is older than 400 years. Harvard is the oldest, at 372 years.

Perspective:
Cabridge - 1209 (799 Years)
Oxford - 11th Century (????)

I guess my point is if you see a way to get to the money, take it. This is all BS anyway. If you need a BS or a BA to get where you want, then get it.

Tam June 3, 2008 at 2:31 a.m.

ALRIGHT ALREADY!
All you CSU pinheads just don't get it. You never will. CSU is a lame correspondence school that EVERYONE laughs at. You'll be a joke in the competitive world. Stick with some low government job and you'll get an extra stripe on your shirt...whoopie!

For you guys bashing all education down to your level just to make CSU seem like "a good deal" is a bunch of bunk! Crawl back in your hole and cover up. All the name dropping and all the yap about CSU's weird accreditation is just sick. Everyone knows it.

There are folks out there that feel so bad because they don't have a degree. You CSU sharks take advantage of that emotion and try to wedge yourselves into their wallets. I won't even go into how you've set your school up to drain the government of taxpayer money just to dish out garbage to them.

Totally sick!

To Joe June 6, 2008 at 3:32 p.m.

Your credibility is in rapid decline. It seems that your crusade against distance education is failing. Instead of spending so much time bashing DL schools and their students, why don’t you get on with the times? Adapt or perish. I will reiterate, your attitude would not get you far in an interview with me. No credential can make up for your lack of self steam. You would not survive outside the walls of your cubical. Your resume would get in my trash along with all the other junk- mail I get every day.

Joe June 7, 2008 at 10:46 p.m.

To Joe... My so called "crusade" is against diploma mills. CSU is not one as I stated on the CCU blog. Timed/quality proctored tests and a real faculty list keep it from being such. I'm not going to go so far as to say it is on par with a good state school but it is better than RA schools like UoP, Walden, Ashford. I have said it before here and I will say it again. CSU is good credential for those listed undergraduate degrees... I think those are a good investment, but an MBA without AACSB doesn't get much attention. Some of these degrees fit and some don't. People will have to decide for themselves. It isn't up to you to tell them who they should or shouldn't listen to. Just state your debate and move on rather than trolling after me with disparaging remarks. It only makes you look unobjective.

Joe June 19, 2008 at 3:42 a.m.

I wrote that about Grantham. How sad you are that you feel the need to subvert my identity. Pathetic is the only word that comes to mind to describe your antics.

@Joe June 19, 2008 at 4:51 p.m.

You should be careful what you say...if you can't say anything nicely then don't say it at all.

Again welcome!

Joe June 20, 2008 at 5:15 p.m.

What the heck? I didn't write that about CSU but Grantham. However, the same still applies to all DETC degrees that want to get into FSU, AU, or any other grad school that will not recognize nationally accredited degrees. My personal feeling on the matter is that it is rather elitist. I don't think they should discriminate based on the degree but on the GRE, GMAT scores. I think they believe the GPAs are too inflated for them to be sure. That isn't their fault but that of the poor quality control on the schools. Rather than taking a chance on hardworking CSU grads they just lay down a blanket policy to keep the many lazy graduates that do get through schools like CCU or Grantham.

Jamie June 20, 2008 at 6:08 p.m.

Ok, being that you wrote this under the CSU blog portion it gave the appearance that you were referring to CSU.

I work at a DETC school and they cannot accept many RA classes due to the specialization of their respective degree programs, so it's an issue that is addressed on both sides of the spectrum. But, many people use the blanket statement saying that because some RA schools don't accept DETC credits it makes DETC of lesser quality and/or academic rigor which is completely false. We could use this same rationalization with some DETC schools not accepting some RA credits and saying RA is of lesser quality, which again is not true. Perception is in the eye of the beholder and people like to skew the truth to their competitive favor without actually taking the true facts into consideration. It’s the old adage elitism of “my school is better than yours so that means I am smarter than you and will be given more opportunities in life.” I’ll dance circles around people with that elitism attitude and believe me in that it will not get them very far in life.

Bottom line; there are MANY options available to students who want to transfer from DETC schools to RA schools. Don't look for the "universal" acceptance because that will never happen regardless of RA or NA.

Jay June 20, 2008 at 7 p.m.

Well said, Jamie! I would like to state since I achieved my MBA with CSU, I was selected for an advanced position with another firm with a much greater salary. It does pay off and was well worth the effort!

tic tac June 23, 2008 at 4:31 p.m.

A CSU MBA is WORTHLESS!!!

Anonymous June 23, 2008 at 8:45 p.m.

A comment posted by the ignorant Tic Tac is WORHTLESS!

tic tac June 24, 2008 at 7:30 a.m.

Prove me wrong then... list notable alumni with high positions with a CSU MBA. Can you even name 2?

tic tac June 24, 2008 at 7:41 a.m.

Let me rephrase that... you can't transfer credits into GOOD grad schools.

Don't encourage the bastard June 24, 2008 at 4:35 p.m.

Ticked Tac is nothing more than a forum troll. Don't encourage the bastard.

tic tac June 26, 2008 at 5:08 a.m.

You haven't provided a single name which means you and CSU failed the test. There is no privacy issue, universities list notable alumni all the time. A CSU MBA is a substandard degree that carries as much weight as a feather. When you get into the real world you will find yourself unemployed in this declining market place. There are so many CSU alumnists taunting me because they are on unemployment and have nothing better to do. Just look at the list, their must be at least half a dozen lurking around and they follow me to every blog. They do it to several other opponents that frequent this board. I've been told to get a life but every few weeks I decide to pop up they are ALWAYS there to insult me. That only shows YOU they are ALWAYS here. ROFLMAO! Get a life!

tic tac June 26, 2008 at 5:32 a.m.

Look at that, only 15 minutes after I finish posting and my detractors are on my heels. They are ALWAYS here! ROFL

You can go weeks in the other blogs without getting a response.

To Tic Tac June 27, 2008 at 5:56 a.m.

Look Shyte Tac, CSU might not be perfect but has prepared me for a world of endless possibilities. My MBA will take me as far as I am willing to go. It doesn't need AACSB or ACBSP or whatever accreditations are out there. My degree is accredited by the DOE which is good enough for anyone in this country and I will put my smarts to anyone who challenges it. You can whine all you want to about not getting your credits transfered but that's only because you couldn't cut it at CSU. You are a slacker. Any college degree is what you make of it. I worked hard and educated myself and I have the paper to prove it. You couldn't cut it and transfered to an AACSB school. So what? You think your degree is better than mine. No, shyte tac, your degree is substandard because you were hand held in a traditional school while I forced myself to earn mine. My online degree says I can learn on my own while your degree says you need someone to hold your hand. I am more self reliant than you will ever be. Take that...

Jamie June 27, 2008 at 5:26 p.m.

My MBA earned me a promotion in law enforcement to the rank of detective. In addition, I am now teaching at three different universities, got a substantial pay increase and am the only one other than our chief to have earned a master's degree. Also, I have now been accepted into another master's program that is VERY selective in who they choose to participate in their respective program. I've been accepted into many doctorate programs as well, but have decided on a second master's in my area of interest instead.

It doesn't matter who your school is accredited by, so long as it is recognized by the US DoE and CHEA. You as an individual create your own opportunities, and CSU gave me the foundational education to succeed.

To Tac Crap June 29, 2008 at 4:24 a.m.

You can take your AACSB MBA and shove it where the moon don't shine :) No one could care less about your degree, of course unless it's you. You don't have a clue as to the status of CSU alums, so shut your mouth. Your higher than thou attitude is really sick and you should seek some help.

By the way, CSU is accredited, so yet again another ruthless comment from Tac Crap without facts or basis. Good luck looser!

NOT A CSU STUDENT June 29, 2008 at 1:41 p.m.

Dear Tic Tac and others,

I came to this site to get some information on a MBA program. However, all I see is arguing between those who claim to be educated. Tic Tac you might want to check out this link. As you will be able to see people cheat at Ivy league schools everyday. The regardless of the university it is the student who makes the degree.
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18472476/

What are you talking about? June 29, 2008 at 10:06 p.m.

The person that posted that isn't a CSU alumnists!

tic tac July 1, 2008 at 2:35 p.m.

DETC is just as worthless as WAUC. The only difference is they can rip off the American tax payer by taking student loans.

Question July 1, 2008 at 3:10 p.m.

Tic Tac - If you are out there in the world blazing trails with your world class MBA with gold standard AACSB accreditation, where do you possibly find the time to sit and flap your yap in this forum? I have read your past posts and I have concluded your opinions are misinformed and ridiculous. You are participating here just for the thrill of conflict and attention.

The trolls vs the shills July 1, 2008 at 7:34 p.m.

I wonder who would win, because both are until certain level are correct!

tic tac July 1, 2008 at 9:05 p.m.

If you are doing so well with your CSU MBA, how do you find the time to stalk me on this blog? ROFL

The trolls vs the shills July 1, 2008 at 11:50 p.m.

Great another shill to the list.

@ tic tac July 2, 2008 at 4:07 p.m.

tic tac asked:
"If you are doing so well with your CSU MBA, how do you find the time to stalk me on this blog? ROFL"

Simple, I only have to work 10 days a month for my 6 figure salary.

@ tic tac July 2, 2008 at 8:19 p.m.

Self-employed? Hardly! Waste of money? Allow me to laugh...

@ Joe July 3, 2008 at 12:25 a.m.

Your statement shows how little you know about the different industries and jobs available in the marketplace. You obviously have a cubicle 9 to 5 mentality. A degree doesn’t make the opportunities;it just gets you a foot in the door. A person, on the other hand, does.

Six Figure Income with a MBA from CSU July 3, 2008 at 1:19 a.m.

Oh no!
Another CEO ready to rip-off the American public by using creative management practices. I can remember the CEO from Radio Shack making way more money and perhaps worked less than 5 days a month, than this guy claiming six figure income and only working 10 days a month, I will never hire anyone that is that lay back and pay that much money. The culprit claimed he had a Bachelor's when in reality he only had two courses. The way the economy is going I doubt this to be accurate, company are cutting cost. It may true in the other hand if this person is a street pharmacist. But for that you don't need a MBA.

Death is a finite word July 3, 2008 at 1:32 a.m.

"I'm here to tell you that you're death wrong"

That mean is over, finito, no going anywhere, brings finitude, or the end of existence for an individual, just a different form of never (ended, stop, and going nowhere). Contradiction in you analysis. The word death besides been a finite word is a penetrating word.

To I work 10 days and make 100K July 3, 2008 at 2 a.m.

So, if you are not a CEO, which that is more than obvious or you are not self-employ, by any chance you are car sales man? Most of them work on weekends(hey big holiday coming). A not even because they work a couple our here and there. Maybe when you add all the hours it comes to 10 days a months. But to make that kind of cash either you will have to sell a lots of cars or work for high priced dealer, but sales are down due to fuel cost.

At thanking me for English lesson July 3, 2008 at 2:32 a.m.

Your are welcome, but you failed to see that your sarcasm contradicts your reasoning which makes it worse.

At thanking me for English lesson July 3, 2008 at 2:47 a.m.

"Your are welcome, but you failed to see that your sarcasm contradicts your reasoning which makes it worse."

That's the point of sarcasm...

Sarcasm[A] is stating the opposite of an intended meaning especially in order to sneeringly, slyly, jest or mock a person, situation or thing. It is strongly associated with irony, with some definitions classifying it as a type of verbal irony intended to insult or wound. Sarcasm can also be used in a humorous or jesting way depending on the intent of the person speaking.

Take note.

Or to distract others July 3, 2008 at 2:50 a.m.

Of the real issues, that is what you may call trolling.

Yeap July 3, 2008 at 3 a.m.

If you sell high price cars like Rolls and Ferrari, you make the math.

On the Internet you can be anyone you want July 3, 2008 at 3:24 a.m.

LOL I find your logic ridiculous. Because you are saying something but do not mean nothing. But good for you.

Not at all. July 3, 2008 at 3:40 a.m.

But I find that hard to believe until proven wrong. If you work for the underground then any degree should be enough even fake ones. Still you have not indicated your profession, are you a shame?

@ Not at all July 3, 2008 at 4:39 a.m.

Not at all. However, this is a public unsecured website, therefore I’m not about to divulge any personal details. Most – if not all – posters here are anonymous, and I want protect my privacy including the industry in which I work.

Like I said before, the object is not to see who makes more money, rather it is to learn how much utility a degree has.

@Again I find... July 3, 2008 at 5:19 a.m.

I can tell it really bothers you to learn of my income. Well, that’s too bad! As for going to another university because I could have afforded it, you should know that the degree came before the big pay raise.

Joe July 3, 2008 at 5:31 a.m.

Agreed... this particular CSU alumn is bunk along with his story. He can't even name his industry... pfft.

Finally I can agree July 3, 2008 at 5:41 a.m.

With: "This site is about college education and not money matters" Nothing else Am Afraid.

CSU most famous shill! July 3, 2008 at 7:30 a.m.

Go here to see a full bio www.linkedin.com/pub/3/826/695

tic tac July 3, 2008 at 11:20 a.m.

Because he promotes CSU here in this blog and everywhere he can think! Can you put 2 and 2 together? Any similarities with some posters here? Like someone name Jamie here.

Shill is July 3, 2008 at 11:29 a.m.

"A person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty."

Shameless self promotion July 3, 2008 at 12:43 p.m.

Wow he is a real pusher indeed. More about Jammie here www.henley-putnam.edu/97-196.htm. But you won't read about him here www.phoenix.edu/, because he was turn down.

Pinkkabbott July 3, 2008 at 1:41 p.m.

I am wondering if the President from CSU holds his MBA from there or somewhere else, Do anyone know? If he doesn't that can be quite an indication he does not believe in his own product.

Pinkkabbott July 3, 2008 at 2:11 p.m.

Sorry wrong shill! but interesting.

To Joe, tic tac, Pinkkabbott, and CO. July 3, 2008 at 2:45 p.m.

I want to thank all of you for reinforcing my position on guarding my privacy. Obviously the money subject touched some deep nerves, so much that some of you have embarked in a quest to find out who I am and what industry I represent. In my industry, on of the largest and most influential in the US and world economies, there is a wide spectrum of income levels. I just happened to be at the higher end of the spectrum.

Now let’s get back to education…

Pinkkabbott July 3, 2008 at 2:54 p.m.

This information was found because this people provided it and since they have and inflated ego, that is what was coming to them. I still believe you are a shill and you do not and I repeat do not make any money as you claim. Unless your are Robert Mayes! I do not need any convincing.

Jay July 3, 2008 at 6:26 p.m.

I went to CSU and have a pretty high regard for the school. I am no employee or "shill" but do want to encourage others persue an education through whatever venue that fits their needs; Even if it is not CSU.In my personal situation, I did learn a lot and my investment paid off. I wish some of you would tone down the BS and quit the personal attacks and demeaning those who did go to CSU. If you don't like the school, that is your opinion. But at least contribute a logical debate instead of this juvenile crap.

Jay July 3, 2008 at 7:15 p.m.

@ Shill - Don't make presumptions.

Jay July 3, 2008 at 8:27 p.m.

@ Shill is - You sound like an arse to me.

Mrs H July 3, 2008 at 10:31 p.m.

You are all a pathetic bunch of reprobates. A bunch of college graduates that cannot even spell or use words correctly.

Take an English course and learn how to use words in a sentence. You have lost all credibility when you make a point with a grammatically incorrect sentence.

Hell even pro wrestlers can use spell check. Now that is funny!!!

To Mrs sHill July 3, 2008 at 11:16 p.m.

Credibility is lost when you lie, cheat, and steal.

Mrs H July 4, 2008 at 4:24 p.m.

Looks like I struck a nerve.

Is shill the word of the day or is that the only word you people know.

It is funny how people like to discredit others for no other reason than their own egos.

Joe,

According to your logic, we should discount your post as well.

Pedantic indeed.

Mrs. sHill,

If you can't take the heat...

Pinkkabbott July 5, 2008 at 12:37 a.m.

Reality remains that Jamie works for CSU, post under many personalities and aliases, to support his own shilling ways, has an inflated ego, and wants to prove something. He is very bias person and you my dear Mrs H you are an accessory to Jamie shilling ways. He is the one who has discredit himself by lying, overrating his credentials, and his education. I would not be surprise that you and Jamie work for the same police department, if that is the situation you are applying what is call "The Blue Code of Silence". If you are not, then you are just another ignorant shill. Because under The Blue Code of Silence at least you have a preposterous reason to step in, which is to protect your own and defend him by association, otherwise you are just playing stupid. And that will strike a nerve.

Sheesh July 5, 2008 at 9:06 p.m.

Mrs. Hill doesn't even know the meaning of shill yet has the nerve to critique other people's grammar. For your enlightenment, you must be PROMOTING something to be a shill. Detractors are the opposite of promoters... De-de-dee!

tic tac July 5, 2008 at 11:05 p.m.

She just shows you what kind of people CSU graduates.

Troll indeed July 6, 2008 at 12:12 a.m.

Best to ignore!

Mrs. Hill the Shill July 7, 2008 at 1:24 a.m.

"I don't care about Jamie or CSU."

Then you have no reason to be here. Bye!

Amazing! July 7, 2008 at 2:40 a.m.

From Jamie 07-28-2005, 12:24 PM degreeinfo.com: "I'm perfectly happy and proud of my degree(s) and wouldn't have changed a thing. I had plently of opportunities to go RA with my undergraduate and graduate degree(s), but decided that NA was more affordable for the same degree.

And, I'd buy the Nissan hands down before I would ever buy a Lexus. First, a Lexus is a glorified Toyota (no offense to you Toyota owners out there). Plus, both cars achieve the same general purpose, it's get you from point A to point B. I don't need to PAY more MONEY for a fancy car, just like I don't need to PAY more MONEY to go to a fancy recognized school. Plus, I have no school loans to pay for. My degree was paid for in cash and not financed, just like my Nissan."

His position now is to spend 30K+ in a degree from RA University (Seton Hall) I wonder why?

Jamie July 7, 2008 at 4:34 a.m.

I am so proud that you determined my profile, as if I was trying to conceal my identity. It's real easy to demean people as an anonymous poster because you hold no accountability to your comments by not showing who you are. I stand behind who I am, what I've been saying all along, and have not deviated from my position.

I have NEVER overstated my background and/or credentials, and have been true to my word since day one. I do represent CSU in the alumni capacity and I chose to support my alma mater because I believe in their educational programs and DETC. If you feel the need to label me on that basis, so be it. I really could care less about your comments.

My CSU MBA has done a lot for me and I will be forever grateful for that. I was accepted into Seton Hall to pursue a second master's in strategic communications and leadership. This is to further my education in a topic that I am very much interested in.

It's really too bad to see this blog be hijacked by a bunch of bullies who think they have something to prove. Oh well, such as life.

tic tac July 7, 2008 at 8:26 a.m.