California Coast University

Abner August 11, 2006 at 4:56 a.m.

Excellent customer service. Grades, study guides and books are sent in a matter of days. Very little down time. Students can rent books for 3 months, the fee is $20.00 with a $50.00 refundable deposit.

Email questions are responded to immediately, and once again, exams are graded with 24 to 48 hours! CCU offers a broad selection of degrees ranging from Associates to Masters at this time. Doctorate level degrees may be offered at a later date. To check out all the degree programs, visit: www.calcoast.edu

SAM January 15, 2007 at 2:19 a.m.

There is always someone to put a negative spin on the distant learning programs and the online degrees.

Does anyone have further information on CCU?

SAM

bdev March 2, 2007 at 4:52 a.m.

Contrary to some opinions, being regionally accredited isn't necessarily the gold standard in education. DETC has the most rigorous standard for distance education: period. The fact that CCU is accredited by DETC says alot about them. I think that was a very wise move on their part. Yes, I am a current student at CCU and I compare my course against some of my colleagues who attend RA schools and they are intimidated by my course work. No, "harder" doesn't necessarily equal "better" but don't let the fact that it's "distance learning" give you the impression that it's going to be an easy ride.

Martin April 7, 2007 at 9:50 p.m.

I work for the federal government. Over the years I've attending several regionally accredited schools and received a BS degree. I started my GOV job at a pretty hifg level, but I was amazed to find out that OPM (Office of Personnel Management) only requires that a degree be accredited by DETC for a FED GOV job. Therefor CCU would be a good choice if you want to go that route.

Allison April 13, 2007 at 1:48 a.m.

I want to get a license in NY for practicing as a psychologist, but I am afraid I won't be able to because CCU is not regionally accredited. Does anyone know if this will be a problem?

beast April 13, 2007 at 8:33 a.m.

Allison, the CCU psych degree does not have the backing of the APA. With that said , i saw a psych licensing list that had a couple CCU graduates on it.

Renee April 24, 2007 at 12:30 a.m.

Does anyone recommend any particular online colleges that are RA or APA accredited for a bachelors in psychology?
THANKS!

Jesse May 12, 2007 at 8:49 p.m.

As far as my research goes, you should be able to do fine with either the A.S. or the B.S. and even possibly the M.S. The APA only regulates the Doctoral Ph.D and Psy.D programs and any post doctoral and intership items you do. With that said, you'll probably have to have a great GRE score to do anything after your B.S. so make sure you get the most out of your degree and the materials you get. Even though NA and RA schools have to pass the same qualifications to be accredited, RA schools mainly look down on NA credits and degrees even though they're not supposed to.

Though if you look around, you can find a handy list of 50 or so RA schools that do take NA credits and degrees. http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripo...
You'll have to scroll down a bit in the thread to find it, but there should be 2 such lists nevertheless.

So, if you want to get your AS and BS on the cheap then transfer to an RA for your MS and Ph.D, etc, that might be a good choice. I would just look around and ask these schools and talk to someone personally at both to make sure this is the case before taking anyone's word on anything, especially when it comes to your education, degrees, hard work, time, and money.

Hope this helps!

Tom July 25, 2007 at 8:05 a.m.

I received a doctorate from CCU in psychology before they were accredited by DETC. However, they did have California State Approval and could grant a PhD. They stop the programs after receiving DETC accreditation. I found the doctoral program challenging and rewarding. I would contend that most RA graduate students who are in need of considerable academic structure not to apply because you will not have committee support. CCU provided a doctoral advisor (who was excellent). However, I had to write an acceptable PhD proposal. Without my background from a BA in Psychology at Cal State Long Beach and later a MS from Cal State Los Angeles, I don't believe that I could have finished. So if you want your doctorate and CCU eventually is approved by the DETC, I'd recommend that you be well read in your area of interest; know how to formulate a research question and do the leg work especially statistical analysis. As I recall CCU does not provide an internship for licensing psychologist. Hence an interested student would probably need to make arrangements through an outside source (assuming the CCU received DETC approval for a PhD in Psychology or PsyD). As to the RA vs. DETC controversy, I suspect that the difference is status. If you're interested in professorship in a prestigious university CCU may not be a good choice. Otherwise I have not heard of anyone getting fired or having a problem obtaining a professional position because of their degree from CCU. You will find that a number of CCU graduates are already employed in excellent positions. I would think that they would defend their degree from CCU and program.Overall any student should decide on their goals and what is necessary educationally. Distance Education is an excellent choice especially for those who are working and trying to advance educationally. Hope these thoughts are helpful.

Abner September 7, 2007 at 4:33 a.m.

I work for the State of California, and any "Recognized" degree is accepted. My employers defintion of "recognized" is an accreditor (NA or RA) that is listed by DOE and CHEA. This includes DETC schools like CCU and Aspen.

Heather September 10, 2007 at 11:24 p.m.

I'm looking at the A.S. degree program in Psychology to transfer to the online Liberal Arts B.S. at Chico State. Will my credits from CCU tranfer to a CA state school? I really don't want to waste my time or money.

Walter September 14, 2007 at 12:15 a.m.

Here's the HETA list for some RA Colleges and Universities in California

Western Association of Schools and Colleges (WASC-ACCJC)

5 results found. Click on institution name for more information.

City College of San Francisco (San Francisco, CA)
Feather River College (Quincy, CA)
Lake Tahoe Community College (South Lake Tahoe , CA)
San Diego City College (San Diego, CA)
Santa Barbara City College (Santa Barbara, CA)

Western Association of Schools and Colleges (WASC-ACSCU)

7 results found. Click on institution name for more information.

California State University - Bakersfield (Bakersfield, CA)
California State University, Dominguez Hills (Carson, CA)
Hope International University School of Professional Studies (Laguna Hills, CA)
Pacific Christian College of Hope International University (Fullerton, CA)
Touro University International (Cypress, CA)
University of Judaism (Los Angeles, CA)
University of San Francisco (San Francisco, CA)

Walter September 16, 2007 at 12:04 p.m.

Revised: Should work now!

Maybe this will finally put regional vs. national accreditation to rest! Please go to DETC's site and view letter from DOE:

http://www.detc.org/downloads/GriffithsL...

Like I stated before, the problem isn’t with regionally or nationally accredited bodies, it’s with individuals that don’t understand where these bodies get their authority to grant their accreditation in the first place. If you're questioning this, you're discrediting not only national but regional accreditation as well!

Walter September 25, 2007 at 12:46 a.m.

Read my pervious post (click on the link), and you’ll notice DETC accreditation is identical to regional accreditation according to the DOE. United States Government Agencies recognize institutions approved by the DOE. You shouldn’t have a problem obtaining a government job with a CCU degree. Like others have stated, the problem with accreditation is most people don’t understand how it works in the first place. It’s like the typewriter rule that requires two spaces after a period. Most people don’t realize most PC programs (example: Word) already adapt and take spacing into account after a period. Unless they did their research or someone informed them, most people wouldn’t even realized it’s changed over the years. Same with accreditation, most people don’t realize DETC is unique because it accredits not only the institution but every program within that institution as well. They actually send teams to the institution and conduct a thorough evaluation of its programs. Also, go to the Department of Education’s website and see who’s authorized to accredit DL programs in the first place.

Silvia September 30, 2007 at 4:09 a.m.

I applied for a Single Subject credential in Sacramento, and was denied because my degree wasn't from a RA University, but from CCU. I had passed all the required tests with flying colors, including the CBEST and Praxis for my subject. This was about 2 years ago, have things changed since and should re-apply? Anyone know? Thanks,

Jeff November 2, 2007 at 2:13 p.m.

I thought California Coast University was orderd closed by a California Court a few years back. Has my memory failed me or have I made a mistake here?

Walter November 3, 2007 at 3:39 a.m.

Hi Jeff,

Wrong university! CCU has never been ordered to close down by any government agency! They are DETC accredited just like CSU, WGU and Concord. Their DL instruction is top notch and has a long track record concerning DL education (1973)! They’re also planning on bringing back their DBA and other doctoral degrees in the winter of 2007. Great School!!!!

randy November 11, 2007 at 11:14 p.m.

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION
OFFICE OF POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION
August30,2007
To Whom It May Concern:
I have been asked by Mr. Michael P. Lambert, Executive Director of the Accrediting
Commission of the Distance Education and Training Council (DETC), to write a letter
explaining the recognition the U.S. Secretary of Education has granted DETC.
DETC is currently listed by the U.S. Secretary of Education as a nationally recognized
accrediting agency. DETC has held that status continuously since 1959, just seven
years after the then U.S. Commissioner of Education began to fulfill a statutory
requirement to periodically publish a list of nationally recognized accrediting agencies
that the Commissioner/Secretary determines to be reliable authorities regarding the
quality of the education or training provided by the institutions and/or programs they
accredit. The current scope of the Secretary's recognition of DETC is the accreditation
of postsecondary institutions in the United States that offer degree programs
primarily by the distance education method up to and including the professional
doctoral degree.
In order to be recognized by the Secretary, an accrediting agency must demonstrate to
the Secretary's satisfaction that it meets the Criteria for Recognition, which are stated in
Federal regulation. The Criteria do not differentiate between types of accrediting
agencies, so the recognition granted to all types of accrediting agencies-regional,
institutional, specialized, and programmatic-is identical. Only the specific scope of
recognition varies according to the type of agency recognized.
If you wish further information about the scope of DETC's recognition by the Secretary,
the accrediting agency recognition process, or the Secretary's Criteria for Recognition
please feel free to contact me.
Accrediting Agency Evaluation Unit
Accreditation and State Liaison
Cc: Michael P. Lambert
Executive Director, DETC
1990 K STREET, N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C.

Jeff November 16, 2007 at 4:04 p.m.

Will California Coast University ever offer financial Aid to its students?

Pat November 20, 2007 at 1:58 a.m.

I got financial aid for CCU. It is thru SallieMae. It paid for all my tuition plus some extra for books.

Danny December 18, 2007 at 8:22 p.m.

California Coast University is a "DIPLOMA MILL" or a "DEGREE FOR A FEE" You take your pick. I would advise anyone who is looking at California Coast University for their educational needs to look elsewhere. Save your money, you can find a better online school to attend I assure you.

Walter December 19, 2007 at 1:52 a.m.

The Department of Education and CHEA don’t recognize diploma mills! If CCU is per say a diploma mill, then we’re basically saying recognized accreditation itself is worthless. Regional and National accrediting agencies meet the same process for recognition. Therefore, if these overseers recognized a diploma mill, then what does that say about accreditation as a whole? That’s the problem with blanket statements, they’re usually incomplete. Usually they harm all parties involved and promote chaos over order. I understand someone saying they’re (CCU) not on par with other universities, but diploma mill? People don’t realize they’re attacking the very foundation they’re attempting to lift up! Colleges don’t grant accreditation but accrediting agencies do. Accrediting agencies don’t recognize themselves but CHEA and US DOE have been tasked with that responsibility. What I’m saying, if you attack the branch, logically you must attack its root? And that’s why I don’t attack higher education and truly believe education is universal!

Thanks!

Andy December 22, 2007 at 4:04 p.m.

I have been taking classes toward an AS in psychology. I hold three degrees from RA schools and I understood the concerns about NA through DETC before I enrolled. First, my CCU experience has been strong. The exams have been challenging and I have had to devote ample time to complete my studies. Second, each class requires three essays and upon completion you receive a rubric of your scoring. Personally, I find that very professional. Third, I live and work in a remote part of Arizona without a good internet connection and the nearest college is a 2-3 hour drive. In my situation, distance learning is my only option and DETC schools provide this service without bricks and mortar. If the DOE recognizes DETC schools than why debate? I can transfer to any "partner" school CCU has an agreement with at a later time if I wish. Cheers!

Chittal Shah January 4, 2008 at 8:04 p.m.

Which MBA program is better, is it better to do from CCU or from TUI university. TUI is regionally accredited and CCU is DETC, cost for TUI is 1200$ X 11 Course, cost of California coast is 630$ x 13 courses. TUI has no payment plan so you pay 2400/every 4 months.

Walter January 5, 2008 at 12:23 a.m.

Credit Transfer:

CHEA : There are currently over 300 regionally accredited schools that you can transfer to with a DETC degree. Furthermore, the list grows with each passing day and more and schools are joining the CHEA's HETA program. This program is helping to level the playing field, making the transferring credit issue a moot point.

Walter January 11, 2008 at 1:25 a.m.

Here's the HETA link, or you can Yahoo CHEA/HETA! It's too many colleges to list on this site! Thanks!

http://www.chea.org/HETA/default.asp

Walter January 24, 2008 at 1:09 a.m.

Linda,

I’ve noticed you’ve attacked not only CCU but also CSU! I must question your motives concerning these two DETC accredited institutions. I understand your lack of indulgence concerning the accreditation process, but way attacked DETC accredited schools and not regionally accredited schools on probation? They’re numerous regionally accredited schools that were or are currently on probation by their respective accreditors.

Am I saying these probationary colleges are bad schools? No! Why, because some newspapers don’t conduct their research just like some gov’t agencies. Case in point: A State was calling a recognized accreditor’s degrees substandard before the courts got involved, they figured out they were going to lose and changed their position.

It should be noted, neither CCU, nor CSU has ever had their state approval or accreditation revoked, suspended or been placed on probation by any entity. Furthermore, both schools are listed as PONSI recognized schools by the New York State Board of Regents. If you don’t know, the State of New York is the only State in the USA (Union) recognized by the USDOE as a degree granting State just like regionals. No other State has ever achieved this status, and by these two schools being recognized, shows they’re definitely not D mills by any means.

PONSI History: The first step in the development of National PONSI came in 1973 when the Board of Regents of the University of the State of New York initiated a pilot study to assess the potential of a college credit advisory service. This project was a direct outcome of recommendations made by the Commission on Non-Traditional Study, a two-year venture supported by the Carnegie Corporation, to provide a national perspective on the future of higher education, including recognizing and granting credit for postsecondary learning undertaken in noncollegiate settings. Comprising renowned educational and business leaders, the Commission called for a system to establish college credit equivalencies for courses offered by government, industry, and other noncollegiate sponsors. Please do your research and weigh your findings before posting derogatory information. These sites are for prospective students, educators (professors), employers and alumni, not recognized accreditation bashers! Try a RA superiority forum, they’ll love to agree and call all non-regional accreditors D mills and all that stuff! Thanks!

Walter January 25, 2008 at 5:18 p.m.

Linda,

First and foremost, let’s give an adequate definition of what a fact vs. opinion is, and what they fall under!

Fact: the truth or actual existence of something, as opposed to the supposition of something or a belief about something.

Opinion: the view somebody takes about an issue, especially when it is based solely on personal judgment. (Remember: Newspapers also write opinions & factual information)

Opinions vs. Factual statements:

Opinion: USDOE and CHEA use different guidelines for NA accreditation vs. RA accreditation.

Fact: ED and CHEA use precisely the same criteria for recognition and the same evaluation process for each type of agency. In theory, each agency is treated the same by ED.
(They validate degrees not us!)

Opinion: Schools use different instructors for online instruction.

Fact: The same professors instruct students in online and classroom instruction.

Cornell University uses the exact same professors for classroom and online instruction.

Opinion: Online schools don’t do as well as B&M instructional schools on examinations.

Fact: There were 304 beta testers representing more than 160 schools who attempted the rigorous Certified Master of Business Administration exam in May. The exam tested 10 subject areas including organizational behavior, strategy, marketing, operations, macroeconomics, microeconomics, finance, managerial accounting, financial accounting and quantitative methods. Just over half - 162 - passed.

The CMBA program ensures that MBA students are proficient in subject areas consistent with the four core curriculum areas required of all MBA programs in order to be accredited by the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB)*.

Currently, Western Governors University (Online NA & RA) has over 100 students/graduates that have passed the CMBA examination. They use the competency based approach to learning. In other words, you must perform and prove you’re competent based on challenge examinations to graduate not a GPA. Most of the schools that took the CMBA examination were B&M resident schools. (Harvard, Yale, Penn State, Purdue, Florida State, George Washington University, Georgia State University, John Hopkins University, Boston University etc.)

Opinion: Most employers will not hire individuals with online degrees.

Fact: Most employers claimed that if an applicant had everything they were looking for, only they had a degree from an online university, 91% of employers surveyed said they would still make the hire. (Example: 15+ years experience, CPA, CMBA, Security Cert’s etc.)

Do a search of the word "accreditation" on www.insidedhighered.com and you will see a number of recent articles on this topic that should explain what this is about. Thanks!

Walter January 27, 2008 at 4:13 p.m.

Nonsense,

You guys are funny! You smell of intimidation and uncertainty. If that’s the case, all Non-Ivy League graduates are a joke! Linda said it herself, USDOE and CHEA doesn’t mean jack! (In her opinion) So, RA and NA don’t mean jack! Did any of you know the only real requirement for a school is state approval? Accreditation is voluntary not mandatory! Since we’re basing stuff off opinions not factual information, some are of the opinion if you’re not Ivy (or Patriot) (SAT 1400 old & 2100 new) you’re not even playing in the majors! I’m of the opinion accreditation is a good thing, and CHEA, USDOE, RA and NA have high standards based on what their graduates are producing in the workforce! Don’t get mad if you’re lumped in with these exceptional individuals! Based on your logic, Non-Ivy’s shouldn’t be even comparing themselves to these schools, unless their entrance requirements are the same! Yale and Harvard requires a 2100 (Most GPAs 3.7-4.0) or above to get into their schools. Most RAs require a 1600 to 1700 (GPAs 2.8 or above) at best, and some don’t require any SAT scores! Question, have Non-Ivy’s produced and contributed to America’s achievements and growth? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are their a lot of Non-Ivy doctorates that have changed American, and the world with their intellectual abilities and foresight? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So, if you’re good at what you do, show me your skills and keep your opinions! Most Americans care about productivity not objectivity!

Oh yeah: RAs (B&M) offer online degrees also! And a lot of RAs (B&M) schools accept NA credits for transfer! So the person that out scored you on that promotion examination who graduated from the University of Montana may have received his/her associates from CCU, CSU, WGU or AU!

Walter January 28, 2008 at 12:01 a.m.

Roger,

You’ve attended some excellent schools! May I ask; if a CCU graduate attended the University of San Francisco’s (USF) Educational Doctor Degree Program, would his/her credentials be as valid as yours? I’m only questioning the validity of recognized accreditation and its role in the educational establishment. I’m very intrigue concerning your stance, and wondering if you’re saying individuals that prove their degree’s validity; “are accepted into academia“per say?

Furthermore, I must say your colleagues are very impressive to attend online schools, get absolutely nothing out of them (but a degree), and still attend and/or graduate from some of the better B&M universities (I’m assuming) in the United States! That would suggest that their intellectual abilities needed no nurturing and they’re very gifted to say the least.

I’ve attended both B&M and online classes, and assure you they’re good online schools, and bad online schools. They’re also good B&M schools and bad B&M schools. In my view, you can’t lump education into one category and assume all variables are the same. Are all RA schools the same? If they are, why spend $100,000 and attend Yale or Harvard? If all RAs aren’t the same, than why would all online RAs or NAs be the same? Unless, they’re all the same and distinctions are more important than knowledge and progression! Thanks!

Walter January 28, 2008 at 2:45 a.m.

Roger,

One more suggestion: I would take an online course at Drexel University’s MBA program. It’s a top ranked B&M school and you’ll be able to determine the effectiveness/ineffectiveness of online instruction! Than take a course through maybe California National University’s MBA program. They’re a little known technology/business college that has renowned professors! Don’t cheat because exams are proctored! Thanks!

Walter January 30, 2008 at 12:52 a.m.

Pretty impressive Chittal!

You noticed where my statements were heading! To clarify for individuals that may not have picked up on it:

Many graduates after attending online universities enroll in B&M graduate schools. Are we saying these individuals needed no basic educational instruction whatsoever? (Yes/No) Based on Roger's conclusions, they’re able to compete with individuals that graduated from B&M Universities (undergraduate programs) with little or no formal undergraduate education whatsoever.

Roger’s statement: I have never taken a class online but I have been aware of students who have and they tell me it’s much easier, some have even alluded to the fact that they have had help on all course work to ensure of a passing grade and almost always an "A" for the class.

That would imply these individuals were able to compete without formal education against individuals with formal education. Whether in graduate school or the job market, and evidently boast about their ability to outwit the system. Is this rare? Not by any means! Yearly, B&M students are busted cheating and utilizing others to do their coursework. Are we demeaning all universities because of these individuals? I think not! Why, because if caught by B&M or online universities the consequences are severe. So, either these individuals are exceptionally gifted learners or they’re embellishing a little! Maybe a little of both statements are true! Thanks for the support!!!!!!!!!!!

Unhappy CCU Student February 5, 2008 at 10:29 p.m.

I am currently pursuing a B.S psychology with California State University.

I am looking forward to attending a Regionally Accredited University to complete my Master's. I sent numerous emails out to atleast 15 different universities advising them of the university I am currently enrolled in etc and if they would accept my degree.

Here are a few of the responses i received:

***This is the statement I received from Admissions:
California Coast University does not belong to the 6 Regional Boards that we recognize from U.S. This institution is accredited by the Distance Education and Training Council which we will not accept. This person will not be eligible for our graduate programs.***

***Currently we have no policy for receiving your degree through distance education. Your GRE scores and letters of reference would likely carry more weight with the individual faculty members reviewing your application.***

***I asked the School of Graduate Studies to check on California Coast University. The following is their reply:

This university is not on the list recognized by Senate. Unfortunately, we would not be able to accept a transcript or degree from CCU toward fulfilling admission requirements.***

At this point I feel like I am have wasted so much money and time because now I can't even get into Graduate School. It seems as if I will have to start ALL over again.

Walter February 6, 2008 at 2 a.m.

Hi Sir,

Have you went to CHEA HETA? Here's some (over 300 listed) schools that accept DETC credits: Arcadia University, The university was recently ranked in the top 20 regional universities in the North by U.S. News & World Report.; California State University, Dominguez Hills; California State University - Bakersfield; Colorado Technical University; East Tennessee State University NCAA Division I; Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis 14 Division I NCAA teams, 29,764 students, New Mexico State University, NMSU's College of Engineering consistently ranks high in national ratings. Nova Southeastern University 20,450 students; Missouri State University also Southwest Missouri State University 17,425 students Division I; University of Montana; University of South Dakota; California University (PA); University of Maine at Farmington; University of Missouri-St Louis AACSB-accredited,(I believe most Div I schools are AACSB accredited); University of San Francisco AACSB accredited; University of Wyoming; Upper Iowa University -- Extended University; Utah State University USU has longstanding ties with the Department of Defense and NASA, and conducts extensive aerospace research; Virginia Commonwealth University Particularly recognized for its nationally ranked art, social work, health administration, and medical degree programs, 31,907 students; etc.

This doesn't included SOC schools! (1,800 or more listed)

Check HETA out! And make sure DETC is aware of these schools responses to your inquiry regarding your degree's acceptance. Thanks!

dave February 6, 2008 at 6:59 p.m.

Ok, I have two degres from a RA state school. I just compleated a masters degree from CCU.CCU was perfect for me as I am 40 years old, have a faimly and a very good carrer. So as far as CCU goes, it's a decent school and worth the money.

I am aware some do not like NA accredidation and some do not like "on-line" schools. These are "facts" as I see them. Most RA schools now have distance programs that are using the same or simiar formats as "on-line" schools. They do this because the world is changing/has changed. Techology is at the point where you simply do not need to sit in the same room with 100 strangers and a teacher to learn. They, RA schools are now playing catch up with on-line schools as they have lost a very large number of student (paying customers). So I ask you if "on-line" is so bad and is a "joke" why are the B&M schools rushing to go on-line and at the same time attacking on-line schools? -----MONEY-MONEY-MONEY.

On NA and RA accredidation, the ansear is simple, they are both accredited by the DOE. What else needs to be said.

On status, yes RA currenty has a edge over NA as does B&M over on-online. As the B&M's go on line they will change there tune and start pushing the value of on-line education. This being said, I give it 4-5 years and the whole issue will no longer even exits.

Walter February 7, 2008 at 12:11 a.m.

Dave not Roger,

Excellent points and very well put! I've did a lot of research into the NA vs. RA and B&M vs. online debates! What I discovered is RA agencies went to DETC for guidance on how to start their respective DL programs. You're correct; we really need to let this superficial debate go! Thanks!

Sorry about the name!

dave February 11, 2008 at 6:31 p.m.

Rosni, Walter posted a link for the CHEA that gives a list of school that have said they will accept DETC credits. you should look into one of these. There are also other American schools that will take the credits but you would have to do some reasearch to find them. I am sorry but I have no idea what canadian schools will or wont do.

There are still issues with DETC credit transfer that in my opinion will take a few more years to work out. This being said, I think people need to take DETC credits with the knowlege there may be problems transfering the credits. This is not just a DETC issue many RA schools do not take credits from other RA schools, or only take a few. In my opinion, this shows how higher education like other industries is all about the money. Sorry, I got off topic.

Rosni February 13, 2008 at 8:20 p.m.

Thanks Walter,

I checked out their website and to be honest, it's not exactly what I am looking for.

Thanks for your help anyway.

Andy February 16, 2008 at 12:32 a.m.

Regarding the "joke" of online programs, etc. I attended a B&M program for my B.A. (WLSC), I attended a combination online/on-campus program for my M. Ed. (Northern Arizona University), and attended a limited-residency online doctorate (UoPhx). Currently, I am teaching at both UoP, and NAU as a part-time faculty, and my dissertation is published along side all of those other B&M schools out there. I love the "fact" that I have had choices in my education, and I have had no difficulty passing licensure exams, state board exams, and the like. Education is an experience and it is what you make of it!!! A few of the most brilliant individuals I have had as professors have attended some of the schools mentioned in these discussions and their experiences, knowledge, and wisdom have been of the highest grade. Choice is good!

Chittal Shah February 21, 2008 at 7:33 p.m.

I have started doing MBA from CCU and am doing my first course, the course are very well designed and as you are learning yourself you put a lot more into it then a lecturer saying something...Online is the future of graduate and Phd programs in this global, fast pace not time environment.

Walter February 26, 2008 at 12:30 a.m.

CCU type degrees or US DOE & CHEA recognized CCU degrees? These have to be other schools you're referencing. Sorry, but CCU degrees are recognized by government agencies! I'm backing up my statement with fact, not opinion. Website: US DOE (accredited schools) CHEA (accredited schools), and they're the legitimate organizations that recognize all accredited schools in the United States. Thanks!

Frank February 26, 2008 at 6:23 a.m.

The USA has about 1500 RA postsecondary schools. Only about five of them are real universities. The rest of the RA alleged universities distract the country's ambitious but poor prospective students with the semblance of university studies. Progress toward the improvement in the dissemination of postsecondary skills, attitudes, and knowledge has met strong opposition from the RA guilds.
The RA group has the strong reputation because its schools had produced the first graduates in the USA; its graduates have a vested interest in their degrees from RA schools. I've been involved in several successful attempts to regionally accredit (SACS) schools. These particular accreditation processes were macabre jokes. Even if the accreditation process succeeds, the student has no guarantee that his learning is comparable to the learning of a student in a neighboring district. CCU at least openly states its objectives to its students. An RA school might or might not do so.
In order to detect the quality of some prestigious RA universities, attend to the logic of the speeches of some presidents or vice presidents of the USA. That will reveal the quality of some prestigious RA schools!
(Losing school districts, such as Houston's, distract the attention of their constituents with irrelevant issues such as the origin of their teacher's degrees. Yet, the failing school systems are overwhelmingly directed and manned by graduates of RA schools!)
If a postsecondary school has the money to waste on RA, it can buy for itself the advantage of illusory prestige. The RA system serves to keep the monopoly in the education market fixed for the RA schools. The big problem in USA postsecondary education is to correct the accrediting processes of the regional agencies.
(Oh, According to my experience, some RA agencies, such as the North Central Association, seem honest. I do wonder about their judgement about the University of Phoenix, though.)
Justice is not found in this world, so the good work of CCU is in some instances irrelevant. I do cheer for CCU.

Say what? February 27, 2008 at 12:49 a.m.

Sorry but the Council for Higher Education Accreditation isn't the government! The CHEA is academia (private sector overseeing accreditation), and I guess everybody’s a nut case except you!

Floyd February 27, 2008 at 1:56 p.m.

Chris, leave it alone. The issue is about self esteem. Many people are haunted by feeling intelligent, but lacking an official document stating it. Like the Scarecrow, they need some sort of validation they have a brain. Let them have it. To 99%+ of the rest of us, we smile and say "how pathetic", but let them have their esteem builder. Outside their own homes, they know their diplomas aren't worth the paper they're printed on and I do agree with you that they are infiltrating government and "self perpetuating" all of this. Chris, I believe you are just being too hard on them and you're stating the obvious over and over. If they offered you a free diploma, would you halt this tirade?

Walter February 28, 2008 at 1:44 a.m.

Now, I see what you guys are getting at: First, there’re two types of CCU graduates. First category is the BS grad that goes and enrolls in California State University’s (HETA) MBA program. He or she graduates, and goes on to receive their doctoral degree from Indiana University-Purdue University (also HETA). I must assume these individuals are able to compete with individuals that graduated from B&M Universities (undergraduate programs) with little or no formal undergraduate education whatsoever. Based on your statements and conclusions, if CCU and other DETC (maybe online RA schools as well) schools are DMs so you say, we must conclude these individuals are gifted. This also implies these individuals never really needed formal education, and are geniuses to say the least. Maybe, B&M school’s graduate level degrees aren’t what they’re cracked up to be, and they’re just taking people’s money. Another example: CCU graduate takes the CPA and passes. This also implies he or she has always possessed the capability with or without the degree. Interesting, you’ve all but validated Mr. Chittal conclusions about U.S. schools and their educational system. By saying CCU and other legitimate (if accreditation is legitimating) schools are DMs, your basically saying (for CCU’s over achievers) education is in the eye of the beholder! I mean, able to move to the top of a future 500 company or government with a substandard degree is very impressive. Second, maybe, just maybe they acquired something out of this so called substandard degree that benefited them in their future endeavors. Quick question, would you consider Penn State's World Campus a DM also?

PS: Although I don’t agree with your logic, I definitely respect your opinions. I'm just gathering research on the topic! Thanks for the input!

Walter February 28, 2008 at 9:42 a.m.

First, a BBA and twenty four accredit hours in accounting is all that's needed for acceptance to sit for the CPA. So, if a CCU BSBA grad had twenty four accredit hours and passed the exam, he or she would be a CPA. Here's a small list of schools that accept CCU degrees/transfer credits under the HETA program: California University (PA), Northcentral University, Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis,Drake University, Southwest Missouri State Univeristy, New Mexico State University, Southwestern Oklahoma State University etc.., and there's about another 400+ that accept credits from CCU. It's all on the CHEA HETA website, and I'm sorry you believe I'm bashing schools! I’ll never discredit any school’s ability to deliver standardized education based on CHEA and US DOE guidelines. Heck, I went to CTC, Austin Peay State University, and they’re both B&M schools. I just finished up my thesis at Cal National University. Only problem I see is accredit recognition. CCU’s program is recognized by both accrediting overseers whether we accept this or not. So, any degrees awarded after that recognition are valid and legitimate. It falls on the individual whether or not to enroll in their program. If the person doesn’t feel it meets their needs, don’t enroll and look elsewhere. My problem is bashing the educational institution, and demeaning the entire system as a whole. By bashing CHEA and US DOE, we’re bashing the entire establishment (B&M, RA, NA, specialization accreditation etc.) itself. Which means, why regulate accreditation in the first place? Let the states handle their respective schools and do away with overseers. Only problem, now other countries won’t recognize your degree. That’s what I’m getting at, and nothing more! Thanks for the input!

Floyd February 28, 2008 at 1:55 p.m.

CHEA, HETA and some other "distant learning" cred. council all are for real and it's these very alternative cred. orgs. that have dumbed down the education system. Go ahead and bash 'em because it's not bashing the overall US education system. Generally, the lower your education, the less opportunities you have. As Woody Allen said: "I would never join a club that would have ME as a member". If all I had was a Cal Coast U. diploma, and it was accepted by a company that required a degree for the job, I wouldn't want to work for that company. If that sort of thing doesn't bother you, then rock on. But I don't like scurrying through the cracks of society trying to find the crumbs of acceptance. That's just me. Any one should feel free to rise to the level of their education, no matter how low it is.

Tam February 28, 2008 at 10:39 p.m.

Walter, you seem to be close to all of this while the others are just mal-contents. CCU seems to be so mysterious me. I'm not like the others who seem to be intimidated, but please tell me what is in an study guide for a typical MBA course. How big is it? How many pages? How many sections? How thick? How heavy? I read there are quizes at the end of each section, then a final. The answers seem to be in the study guide. Is there a example somewhere? Can you describe in keen detail?

Walter February 29, 2008 at 12:25 a.m.

I’m giving you three universities and you can review their study requirements. Do what’s best for you and remember education is universal. If you gain knowledge, it was worth the effort, time and money! Thanks and good luck!

California Coast University:

• Proctored exams (Final)
• Online guided study (exams)
• College level learning material ($100 per book average)
• ACE guidelines and procedures
• Distance Education and Training Council (DETC) regulated.
• Instructor are available ccmail (Instructor concept)
• Essay requirement for each course
• Library services
• Online instructional tools (research engine, guidelines, etc.)
• Internet connection
• Thesis or 9 additional (courses) required for MBA grads
• Cost: $330 per course (undergrad), $630 (graduate)

Indiana University East:
• Totally online study
• College level learning material ($100 per book average)
• One on one instruction (instructor/professor concept)
• Classes can be given live online, audio, video etc.
• Interaction with peers through online instruction
• Library services
• Online instructional tools (research engine, guidelines, etc.)
• Internet connection
• North Central Association of Colleges and Schools, Commission on Institutions of Higher Education regulated.
• Cost: $690 per course (undergrad),

Western Governors University
• Competency-based, online degrees (challenge based examinations after assessments)
• Online study
• College level learning material
• Entrance exam required
• Follows mentor concept
• Online instructional tools (research engine, guidelines, etc.)
• CMBA examination needed to graduate from their MBA program
• Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities regulated
• Distance Education and Training Council (DETC) regulated.
• National Council for the Accreditation of Teacher Education (NCATE) regulated
• Cost: $2,790 per 6-month term (approximately $697.50 per course) (undergrad) $3,250 per 6-month term for MBA (approximately $812.40 per course)

Walter February 29, 2008 at 4:04 a.m.

Tam here's what Jorge posted earlier:

Jorge December 23, 2007 at 3:46 a.m.

Susan, to answer your question:

I am currently a Columbia Southern University in the Business Administration program, I chose CSU because of the low/none "real life" interaction, I have very unpredictable schedules and often find myself out of town or out of country, so having a curriculum that encourages self/independent study is ideal for me. After much consideration I learned that both Columbia Southern University and California Coast University are similar in curriculum and assignment requirements. Price is also very similar and both are accredited by DETC. What you must take into consideration is the major and concentration (if any) that you want to take. If both offer the same major (BS in business or Psychology) then you must consider the curriculum, which school offers/requires more classes that meet your interest. CSU allowed me to transfer a maximum number of credits... CCU offers masters in Psychology and Education. Bottom line: which school's curriculum matches your goals and interests better???? (end)

Tam also,

The books and degree requirements are pretty much standardized MBA program courses. They're required to follow a DETC approved format. I'm unsure concerning the particulars because I attended Cal National University's MBA program. You can call them directly or get with someone from CSU site. They may have more information concerning the course, and their instructional guidelines are similar to CCU. Hope this helps! Thanks!

PS: CSU POC is Jamie (CSU MBA grad)! He's also a Professor at two universities. (B&M & Online)

Tam February 29, 2008 at 2:58 p.m.

Oh, GAWD! I saw that movie, and you're right. Floyd, you hit the nail on the head. I actually thought there was something to all of this so-called accredited correspondance school stuff. It's nothing but a freak show.

Tam March 1, 2008 at 1:13 a.m.

Higher Education? Accredited? Okay, well, I suppose it is, sorta. More like ticket punching, though. Go ahead and call everyone narrow minded and all the other name calling you can come up with, but CCU type schools will never get in the mix with the the traditional schools. Please, don't anyone come back with "give it time and we'll be more accepted". GEEZE, that sounds like cult talk. It's hard enough getting respect if you graduate from a NCAA div. III RA school. But a correspondence school will always, and I mean ALWAYS, be hard for the vast majority to accept. There are so, so many stories of people being rejected and feeling as though they wasted their time and money on these schools. If you can fight through all that, I suppose the best benefits one can get from a CCU degree is improved self-esteem, a personal sense of being educated and perhaps an extra stripe on your uniform. Those are all good things, right?

Walter March 2, 2008 at 2:52 a.m.

Jon,

I believe they’re targeting CSU and CCU’s websites because both are receiving 9.0 or more ratings from their students/graduates. They’re looking on the forum to see what comments are being posted and responding accordingly, either discrediting or intimidating readers to accepted their viewpoints. They don’t even comprehend it’s not US (forum readers/imputers) but the attendees that rate the particular schools. The school’s attendees decides where the schools overall rating falls, not blog readers. And paid, now that’s funny and disturbing all at the same time. They said the same about CSU grads on their site! Why, because I was asked a question and responded. And I quote;” I wonder how much Walter is being paid by CCU to write all of his garbage. He tells the truth most of the time, but he's selling credibility to alternative accreditation as being equal to RA. It's not, and he needs to quit implying that it is.”

Here's what I've learned with very little research:

1. Accreditation should be laid to rest because their both recognized by CHEA and US DOE!
2. Furthermore, both schools are listed as PONSI recognized (approved) schools by the New York State Board of Regents. If you don’t know, the State of New York is the only State in the USA (Union) recognized by the USDOE as a degree granting State just like regionals. No other State has ever achieved this status, and by these two schools being recognized, shows they’re definitely not unaccredited by any means.
3. CSU is partnered with about six RA schools.
4. CCU is partnered with about three RA schools.
5. Both are partners with Northcentral University.
6. CHEA HETA schools (over 400+) accept their credits.
7. One of their partners has published over 250 dissertations.

When I posted this information, I was first called a lair (understood without knowledge of the subject matter) but later called a garbage writer. (Understood without the capability to comprehend the subject matter) These meaningless exchanges are a waste of my (and their) time and effort! These people aren’t interested in progression but regression. Hopefully readers will digest the information on this forum, research the topics accordingly (themselves), and make their own decisions. Thanks!

JS March 3, 2008 at 1:40 a.m.

I DO THINK THAT RA SCHOOLS AND NA SCHOOLS HAS SOME DIFFERENCES. YES,I THINK AN RA SCHOOL MIGHT BE BETTER THAN AN NA BUT THAT CERTAINLY DOESNT MEAN THAT AN NA UNIVERSITY IS BAD.
I DO COMMEND THOSE PEOPLE WHO PURSUE THEIR EDUCATION WHETHER IT'S FROM AN NA OR RA SCHOOLS. SOME PEOPLE CAN AFFORD RA SCHOOLS WHERE OTHERS CAN'T. SOME ARE ABLE TO ATTEND RA SCHOOLS AND SOME CAN'T.THERE ARE SOME PERSONAL THINGS THAT NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED BEFORE PURSUING EDUCATION. TO SOME PEOPLE, IT IS EASY BUT THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE AS MOTIVATED BUT PERSONAL ISSUES HINDERS THEM.WITH THAT SAID, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BASH ANY SCHOOLS WHETHER THEY ARE RA OR NA BEACUSE ALL IT'S DOING IS DISCOURAGING THE STUDENTS FROM PURSUING THEIR GOALS. EACH OF US HAVE DIFFERENT GOALS AND IF ONE OF US THINK IT'S WITH AN NA OR RA SCHOOL, THEN SO BE IT.THEY MAY HAVE A GOOD REASON FOR IT. BOTTOM LINE, (NA/RA)THEY MAY NOT BE IN THE SAME STANDARD BUT THEY ARE BOTH RECOGNIZED BY CHEA AND DOE.

TO CCU'S CREDIT, I DO KNOW THAT IN EVERY COURSE YOU TAKE, YOU CANNOT TAKE THE FINAL EXAM IF YOU DO NOT PASS 3 TERM PAPERS. A FRIEND SHOWED ME A FEEDBACK FROM CCU AFTER SUBMITTING HIS PAPERS,I WAS SHOCKED. I THOUGHT YOU SUBMITT IT AND THATS IT! I NEVER THOUGHT THEY WOULD ACTUALLY READ THEM THEY WERE VERY STRICT! THEY COMMENTED ON HIS PUNCTUATION MARKS TO THE LOW SUBSTANCE OF HIS PAPER.HE RECEIVED AN F AND HAD TO RE TAKE THE COURSE.

Andy March 3, 2008 at 4:16 a.m.

Texas does not recognize DETC schools and this may be why Houston School Dist. officials were removed. However, Texas does recognize education from NA schools with religious affiliation through Association for Biblical Higher Education (ABHE) which is recognized by the CHEA. Is this not on the same level? This forum is great...let us all learn together about how accreditation works. Also, it just seems that in the USA if your college has sports you are a legit school. hmmm!

Walter March 4, 2008 at 4:46 a.m.

Tam,

Are you referring to: Indiana University–Purdue University Indianapolis (IUPUI) (ranking: fourth tier) (Division I) an urban shared campus of Indiana University and Purdue University located in Indianapolis, Indiana? From my understanding, Indiana University is the managing partner, and has established itself quite well! IUPUI offers undergraduate, graduate and professional degrees from both Indiana University and Purdue University. Purdue University (West Lafayette) is ranked 64th, and Indiana University (Bloomington) is ranked 75th respectfully. Their system's setup something like Penn States, all these different colleges fall under the same umbrella.

As far as accreditation, they’re top tier: IUPUI is accredited by the Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools, and their technology/engineering degrees are accredited by the ABET. Their law degree is accredited by, of course ABA and their school of medicine is accredited also. Thanks!

Mike March 4, 2008 at 8:02 p.m.

CCU Degrees are accepted by:

U.S. Army
U.S. Air Force
U.S. Navy
U.S. Marine Corp
U.S. Forest Service
NOAA
OSHA
EPA
U.S. Department of Transportation
U.S. Postal Service
U.S. Treasury
U.S. Bureau of Prisions
U.S. Department of Justice

Not to mention several Fortune 500 companies and several RA Universities.
Also several prominant people hold CCU degrees to include:

A Pennsylvania State Representative
A Professor at the University Of New Mexico
A Top Ranked Biophramaceutical Vaccine Scientist
A Prolific Author
A County Judge
A Fulbright Scholar
A Police Superintendent

I think these accomplishments are the TRUE litmus test for CCU.

Walter March 5, 2008 at 12:12 a.m.

Tam,

You definitely make some valid points and these concerns shouldn’t be overlooked. I’m going to run something by you, and maybe you’ll see why it’s not so cut and dry in my opinion.

Say someone goes to CCU and obtains their BSBA. They enroll in Indiana University and obtain their MBA in marketing. Their first degree is NA accredited but second is RA accredited. Are you saying with 15 years experience and his/her MBA, the employer will overlook them because of their NA schooling? Also take into account their MBA wouldn’t be obtainable without their undergraduate (NA) degree. More and more schools (RA & NA) are partnering up to facilitate the furtherance of education. With that said, our possibilities are now endless and education is indeed universal. Thanks!

Tam March 5, 2008 at 2:01 a.m.

Again Walter, your statement is misleading. With an NA diploma on your resume, that smirk on the HR manager's face will subside a bit (just a little bit) only after he see's the RA MBA and 15 years. Okay? And, yes, you can squeak into an RA grad program somewhere especially if you ace the GMAT or GRE. (please don't make a list of RA schools...please? None are stellar anyway.) Look, you're selling CCU. That's okay, but I just have to make some statements that will make the readers of this one-sided review blog think a little. You have to know the limitations that an NA school presents. Non-RA accreditation is a BIG handy-cap.

Walter March 5, 2008 at 3:03 a.m.

PS: The University of Missouri-St Louis AACSB-accredited, University of San Francisco AACSB accredited, and Indiana University–Purdue University Indianapolis AACSB accredited (IUPUI) are all very good schools! Sorry, they were calling me! (LOL)

Mike March 5, 2008 at 9:55 a.m.

Tam,
I'm sorry that your not up to speed on the new trends in education. You have some valid points as Walter said, however, like it or not RA schools are not the ONLY option out there. Check for yourself, call OPM and ask them on their degree policy for emplyoment and promotion.

I know a few folks that have landed or have been promoted with a non RA degree, it's a fact. I agree with you that potential students do their homework.

I had a professor at the University Of Missouri who's undergrad degree was DETC and his Masters was state approved.

Walter March 5, 2008 at 11:53 p.m.

Tam,

I was under the impression you were familiar with accreditation. I guess we’ll have to get you up to speed concerning specialized accreditation. AACSB accreditation: This type of accreditation indicates that the program has chosen to be evaluated and has been approved by the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB). AACSB International accreditation represents the highest standard of achievement for business schools, world-wide. Institutions that earn accreditation confirm their commitment to quality and continuous improvement through a rigorous and comprehensive peer review. AACSB International accreditation is the hallmark of excellence in management education.

This accreditation is awarded to top notch business colleges like Harvard University ($160,000 MBA starting salary), Yale University ($130,000 MBA starting salary), University of Pennsylvania ($156,000 MBA starting salary), Villanova University ($85,000 MBA starting salary), and Cornel University ($135,000 MBA starting salary) to name a few. An AACSB accredited MBA degree puts you at around $81,000 (starting salary) on average. The universities named in my pervious posting are excellent schools if they’ve received AACSB accreditation. By the above universities being recognized by the AACSB on top of their RA accreditation, shows their not fly by night universities. So, if you went to CCU and graduated from one of these schools’ MBA programs, you’re sitting in a very comfortable position. Another good business school accrediting agency is the Association of Collegiate Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP), the premier accrediting association for business schools and programs with a focus on teaching excellence. Both of these accreditors are recognized by CHEA. (CHEA governs accreditation in the U.S. along with USDOE.) Thanks!

Tam March 6, 2008 at 4:40 a.m.

Oh, I am VERY familiar with accreditation. You keep blathering all of those accreditation acronyms. SO WHAT? You can't stack your deck with those other accreds high enough hoping you can equal the height of RA accred. AACSB accred without RA doesn't mean much. The other way around is fine, though. (Nice word-play in your above comments. Totally bogus, but you're a great salesman)

BUYER BEWARE!

Tam March 7, 2008 at 3:24 a.m.

I'm sure the schools you mentioned would expect that the AACSB school would be RA first. I'd make sure I was transfering from an RA school. If it's this "ACCSB" also, who cares, but never "just" AACSB without RA. Your credits, quite possibly, will be discarded. I wouldn't chance it. You can't guarantee they will accept non-RA CCU credits. I wouldn't pre-verify acceptance either because there is still no guarantee. And thank you for your comments!

Tam March 12, 2008 at 2:02 p.m.

Who's better, RA or NA? COME ON! You know good and well RA is the gold standard. There's nothing here to be "progressive" about. All those other accreds are virtually WORTHLESS in comparison to RA. With all things being equal, I'd never work for a company that'd hire an NA degreed applicant over an RA degreed applicant. I'm sure you can name some, but who cares.

CULT WARNING: "Progressive minded" and "open minded" are buzz-words from people who want to convince you of something that aint quite right because they assume you haven't made up your mind about what's right and wrong - and that you have no principals. Liberals and athiests use those words all the time to convince people of garbage ideas.

Tam March 12, 2008 at 7:06 p.m.

If CCU had a football team, I wonder what their "student athletes" would be like...LOL. No matter how low you might think RA is, NA is a mile lower! Bashing RA to make NA seem even close to being a viable alternative is a laugh riot!

Walter March 13, 2008 at 12:51 a.m.

Tam,

Address your concerns to CHEA and US EOD! Write them and voice your reservations! I have done so! Talk to leading Professionals in the field of DL (B&M and Online)! I have! When you complete you research paper on the subject, come back and converse with comprehensive responses, not verbal attacks! I’m not concerned with your job status, only whether or not you’re interested in educational progression. (That’s the topic) I’m not even concern with what school you pick to attend (B&M, RA online, or NA online), as long as it works for you and fulfills your requirements. I’m not concerned whether you like CCU or not! Only don’t call them unaccredited, if they are accredited! You may have a difficult time obtaining a job is not the same as you will have a difficult time obtaining a job! Have you even attended a NA or RA online school?

And Cult: object of idolization: a person, philosophy, or activity regarded with extreme or excessive admiration. I don’t think so, just review my comments and all the schools I’ve endorsed along with CCU! The only schools I’ve noticed any of you guys endorsing are located in Texas. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve also attended a school located in Texas (CTC) (Great school), but they’re not the only thing going! If you believe RA’s the way to go, by all means enroll in a RA school and use their name (rep) as a catapult! And if a reputable company hired someone with a NA degree over you, it may relate to his/her 25 years experience and certifications on top of that NA degree. How did you perform during the interview? Did you know and understand the skill sets required for the job? How needy are you? Do you require your supervisor to explain something five times before you comprehend his instructions? Are you analytical or superficial? Appearing to know, but not knowing at all! That’s my concerns, and if RA or NA schools can make people better employees and supervisors, sign me up for two hundred!

Thanks!

PS: I’m sure a lot of AACSB (CEOs) and ABA (Lawyers) grads would take offense to your statements!

JS March 13, 2008 at 10:43 a.m.

It is a matter of experience and performance, Whether you came from an NA or RA school.When you're hired and you don't really do well with your job, you're accreditation doesnt matter.They will let you go!For instance, our manager went to an RA school for her MBA in business, we had to let her go because she had NO CLUE about running a business. I have met a lot of people who had come a long way and became successful without any degrees.(not that I'm encouraging that, bec I think education is important whether NA OR RA) I have also met people who went to good colleges and made a fool of themselves. It is up to the person. Yes, an RA is well accepted and is very much accustomed to. But, NA schools are also getting their recognition. I don't think this should be a battle. If an RA works for you,GREAT! and if NA is what's working for others,then let's respect that. There are a lot of people who are self motivated and could learn on their own(which I think is very hard)and this people could perform thier job as well as people who went to RA schools. CCU from what I gathered is approved by CHEA and DOE along with the other RA schools.

dave March 13, 2008 at 9:22 p.m.

What a bunch of elitist garbage. Some of you have all but said if your education is not from a RA and B&M School then you are an idiot who has gotten a fake degree. Why not say if you did not go to a tier 1 school you are an idiot who has gotten a fake degree. Or if you have not gone to a tier 1 or 2 school you are an idiot who has a fake degree. Why not tell all the people who have gone to community colleges that they are idiots and have worked for nothing. God people get a life and let people get educated how and where they can. Stop trying to put them down so you can tell yourself you are SMARTER than them. The truth is both RA and NA accredidation are good things that help our educational system. As far as which is better, RA vs Na, on-line vs B&M vs Mixed vs correspondence vs whatever mostly a matter of opinion unless you are talking about specific jobs and their specific requirments. Face it people things are changing, they alway have and always will. You simply can not think that RA/B&M's are the only game in town anymore because they are not and your opinion will not change that.

Fred March 13, 2008 at 9:54 p.m.

Just realized that I did not mention that aside from some within private sector and certain state governments, many indivudual RA schools do not value NA, but that is changing as well.

dave March 14, 2008 at 6:23 p.m.

Tam you have not factored in two things, if all the RA and B&M's go on-line, which they are doing. Then what is the difference between the two? It will not take too long for people to relize that really there is no difference. You also have not factored in the courts. As DOE has spoken on this issue, how long will it take before National accreditors and/or individuals start taking legal action against RA's, states or companies who discriminate against them?

As I have said before, I have two BA's from a state school. I am an adult who went to CCU as I have a carrer and family and simply can not give those up to "go back to school" I am not trying to convince you of anything. All I am saying is the degree is accredited. Lot's of RA's have on-line programs, so what is the problem? The problem is some people keep pushing that if the degree is not from an RA or is on-line it is no good. I have done RA school/B&M and I have done NA/on-line. The reality is they both were good experiences, I learned from both. They both have pro's and cons. When I was younger the B&M was "better" at 40 the on-line was "better".

You also mentioned RA schools closing doors and going the cheap and easy route. My question is if most of them are now offering on-line courses and programs, then haven't they already started to go the "cheap and easy route"

To make it clear, I agree that there are programs that simply must not be totaly on line. But, on the other hand, do you really think that most BA's are so difficult that they can not be taught on-line by qualified proffesors using new technologies. You may say they are, I say they are not. In the end, if a NA school offeres the same course, taught by a qualified person then the only true difference between the two is perception.

I just don't get the logic some people have. It seems that If you and I both took the same course, from an RA school, but you went to class and I did it on line, then your class was "better". If you and I took the same class again, but I was at a NA school and you were at an RA school then your class was "better". I think the "better" should be changed to "different".

Walter March 14, 2008 at 10:49 p.m.

Excellent points Dave!

Tam,

There's other factor being overlooked here: What about totally online RA schools? One online school for example is Northcentral University (non-B&M), how do they work into your analogy? Furthermore, there are a lot of totally (non-B&M) online RA schools out there (Thomas Edison College, Western Governors University, and Excelsior College) that accept NA credits. Where do they work into your equation? Are they equal or substandard RA institutions? Is their accrediting agency substandard? What’s your opinion concern them? Myself, I happened to respect all schools accredited by CHEA and US EoD!

Thanks!

JS March 15, 2008 at 5:38 a.m.

This arguments and battles between RA and NA is going too far. I don't think anyone here mention anything about NA being equal or better than NA,There are differences like what Dave mentioned. It is entirely to the person who is sutdying to make the call.RA has been around eversince and it is what we are accustumed to. But, just because there's another (LEGAL, DOE APPROVED and ACCREDITED) option that surfaces that doesnt mean it's worthless or should not be paid attention to.Obviously, it is not an illigitimate way of learning because it has been recognize by DoE and now being accepted by RA univerities. If people thinks NA is not good enough what does that say about our DoE who approved it?

There are adult learners here who simply can't go toB&M or RA for different reasons. Including,financial, time and capabilties to attend a campus. Psychologically, it is also harder for adults to be going to school with bunch of young students.

Why don't we encourage each other instead. People here seem to have the same goal, to get educated. How they get that, is up to them as long as it is accredited so they don't waste their time. I'm all for it!

Walter March 15, 2008 at 1:46 p.m.

JS,

You are correct! I have never used the word equal or better than RA. Furthermore, I've endorsed all methods of study (M&B, RA & NA online etc.)! I really don't know what facts she's referring to when Excelsior College has numbers graduates that have went on to attend and graduate from Harvard, Yale, and BYU to name a few. There are numerous schools out there and it's illogical to assume that because your degree is NA or RA online, opportunities don't exist. Maybe it's harder for folks with NA online degrees, but unattainable, the facts just don't support Tam's claims. Example; employer’s looking over a resume and notices he’s hired from this university (NA or RA) in the past. His decision will reflect more on the pervious employee’s performance and less on the interviewing employee’s performance. All things being equal (acceptance of NA degrees by HR etc.), we must also factor this bias into the equation.

Some of these DL online schools have been around for decades and have reputable backgrounds, and some do not. This can work to your advantage or disadvantage. I can name numerous other variables that come into play when an employer determines whether or not to hire an applicant. Schools follow the same methodology, and evaluation process. Some schools may turn NA accreditation away (this has already been accepted) but others will accept or at least evaluate these credits. RA to RA schools evaluate each others credits also, and approval isn’t guaranteed here either. Like I said, there are too many variables on both sides of this issue to either totally exclude or include NA acceptance. One fact is know and accepted; CHEA and US DoE recognize both RA and NA schools. Sorry, I can't agree Tam!

dave March 17, 2008 at 7:11 p.m.

Tam you are right, there is a pecking order based on perception. My only point is that the perception all other accredidation is less than RA is simply wrong. I did my reaserch into RA and NA before I went to CCU. The fact is if you look at the RA and DETC standards you will not see much difference. The real difference you are talking about is again perception that any RA is "better" than any non RA. I think this is a blanket statement that needs to be disputed.

dave March 19, 2008 at 6:10 p.m.

Tam you are right again, but why not mess with the gorilla? The RA's simply can not and in my opinion should not be the end all be all. I think the DOE and the CHEA are where the power should be. I think the RA's have taken over by default and schools like CCU are starting to change the "American institution". You have to admit, there are more RA's and businesses every day saying yes to non RA accreditors. I think this is a good thing. I think the trend will continue. Having said this, I wish every thing was NA, RA or whatever so this debate would stop and people could get educated without all of this endless debate.

Walter March 21, 2008 at 12:32 a.m.

Quality and not quantity! RAs have the quantity because there are more of them out there! Bright line asserts schools under this program have the quality and NAs are currently mandated under law/regulation to participate in this quality assurance program! As mentioned before, write the overseers (CHEA & US EOD) about your quality assurance issues! Quality, not quantity, now that’s funny!!!! Tam, you’re funny!

Walter March 21, 2008 at 10:25 p.m.

Actually,

I’m referring to CHEA and US EoD’s bright line concept “A Business initiative ensuring quality assurance concerning colleges and universities”! That’s what you’re referring to correct? Businesses need to be reassured that their employees are receiving a quality education meeting their companies’ needs and objectives. I’ve also noticed you take pleasure in demeaning others (“learn to read”) and attacking their intellect! I must ask, does this stem from your belief that your degree is superior to others. I wonder if someone stated their working on a DBA from a RA school, would your responses be so offensive. It’s very unprofessional and childish to attack and demean people for no reason other than spitefulness. I only said you’re funny and I’ve never attacked your intellectual ability. Furthermore, I’ve commended you on some of your statements!

PS: I’ve only said they’re a good school!

Thanks!

Hawk March 22, 2008 at 12:49 a.m.

Like I said earlier. CCU is a nationally and recognized university just as Harvard, UCLA, Stanford and every other regionally accredited university. The difference is that CCU is DETC while the others are regionally accredited. CCU is not a diploma mill, period. This fight and conversation is rediculous. The monopoly the Regional maintain as though one receives a superior education because there schools are attended is nuts. One may attend any DETC and feel pride of their degree. I am a CCU undergrad and now I am completing my MBA at a regional. I have had no problems in having my degree recognized.

Jamie March 22, 2008 at 5:03 a.m.

Tam,

DETC degree(s) are not "ticket punch" degree programs, as you indicated on another forum. It's interesting to note that many DETC graduates actually came from RA colleges and/or universities and many times have said that the DETC program was more rigors. I can certainly attest to that fact. I can intelligently talk about both sides (RA & NA) because like Hawk, I too have been a student/graduate from RA and NA schools. You on the other hand, from what I can gather, have only attended an RA school. So, you have absolutely no comparison between RA and NA schools.

Your problem is that you feel threatened by graduates from DETC schools because in your own internal fantasy world you believe we somehow got off “easy” by attending a DETC school, when in reality, DETC schools are very challenging and rigors. And, these statements come from students who attended both RA and NA schools.

If you spent just an ounce of time learning the differences between DETC and RA accreditation you might be quite surprised as to what you’d find. Of course, that would probably be too much for you, as it would actually require you to think and comprehend analytical research.

For example, DETC schools are required to have every class accredited and reviewed by the accreditation team to ensure it meets their high standards. RA schools do no accredit the classes, but only the institution as a whole. There are many other major quality differences between DETC and RA.

Why would there be over 140 million graduates from DETC schools over the last century and a current enrollment of 4 million+ students at DETC schools if there was such a problem with degree acceptance? You're so far off into left field and blinded by your spitefulness its ridiculous.

Jamie March 22, 2008 at 4:43 p.m.

Tam,

You don't have a clue as to what CCU graduates go through to earn their degree(s), so as I said before, pipe down. Your broad statements of "everyone knows it" has no basis or validity.

No degree is "universally" accepted, whether it is RA or NA accredited. Some jobs require specialized accreditation, where your "RA school" wouldn't be accepted, so stop making blanket statements.

Your ignorance continues to shine through every time you submit a comment. What you're insinuating then is that schools from foreign countries are inferior, as they're not RA accredited. There are many foreign schools that would dance circles around any U.S. accredited school.

You think RA is the only thing a school needs. Little do you know (which continues to show) is that the entire accreditation system has been, and continues to be, challenged by the U.S. Department of Education. And guess what, it's not the DETC that’s been having the issues, but its many of the RA accreditors who have been "put on notice" by the U.S. Department of Education for not meeting specific standards. DETC has just recently received the full five years (which is the maximum) recognition by the U.S. Department of Education.

The difference between you and me (which is a truck load) is that I speak based on facts and research, whereas you spew personal opinion, which mean absolutely nothing.

Your elitist attitude is really an inferiority complex. Your pathetic little thought process will be to your own demise. Oh, I guess I am an elitist as well, as I too graduated from an RA school. Get a life!

Walter March 22, 2008 at 5:26 p.m.

Tam,

Your continued attack shows your bias and misunderstanding concerning the accreditation process. Your argument stance insists that RA is superior to NA accreditation, but ask others not to bring the overseers (CHEA & US DoE) into the debate. This makes no sense whatsoever! My MBA requirements directed me to present all relevant facts, and start from the top or bottom (working up or down), not the middle. You’ve even attacked tic tacs gold standard ACCSB accreditation! (If it's this "ACCSB" also, who cares, but never "just" AACSB without RA.) All true business majors know this accreditation relates to specialized programs and not institutional accreditation. It should be noted, that’s why tic tacs credits wouldn’t transfer not its NA status alone. Even non AACSB RA credits won’t transfer in most cases to an AACSB RA school.

There are numerous RA schools accepting NA undergraduates into their programs (PhD, DBA, MBA, MS etc.). These schools are nationally ranked and accepted in academia. If an individual’s undergraduate was from CCU and they obtained their graduate from Arcadia University, Harvard would have no problem accepting them into their PhD program. Degrees work up not down, and academia would not discredit an individual’s credentials based on his/her undergraduate degree. Your rationale would suggest schools would somehow overlook his/her advance RA degree.

That’s my point, CHEA and US DoE should be the focus here, not RA or NA accreditors. If the US DoE or CHEA stated RA accreditation was in fact the “Gold Standard”, I’m sure the argument would conclude in your favor. Unfortunately, neither the CHEA nor US DoE have supported that stance! Furthermore, Jamie’s right about accreditation and the procedural differences between NA & RA accreditation (Bright line). So to use your own words; If the degree meets the person’s needs, it’s recognized by CHEA and/or US DoE, credits are accepted by the RA college they wish to transfer to, and their employer accepts the degree, “WHO CARES”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tam March 24, 2008 at 3:04 p.m.

My continued attacks....? You can get as techinical about accreds all you want, but NA/online will never have the respect of RA/B&M. Same as smaller State U's will never live up to the Ivy League either. That's just the way it is. Blab on about how everyone is signing on to it, but that doesn't change anything.

There's no way I'd come on a review sight and make claims that my degree from Sheetrock State (fictional RA/B&M) is accredited the same as Harvard, hence, I expect the same opportunities out there in the world. With CCU, you're not coming out and saying that, but your are strongly implying it in regard to NA/online vs RA/B&M. It aint true never will be. Pile on all the accreds you want.

I'll have to agree with the prior post and say that he's correct by stating that you need to do your research and find what works for you and your goals. If you're an experienced mid-career individual and your goal is to move into a position that absolutely requires a degree, CCU may help. I've never seen it, but I believe your claims. One must take a in-depth look at ones individual situation because there is very limited flexibility with an NA/online degree.

Tam March 25, 2008 at 3:09 a.m.

It's not just me that thinks NA/online inferior. The majority thinks it inferior. You're being very wise to do your checking on credit acceptability prior. And you better stick with that plan all the way because you have very little flexibility and few options should you change your mind.

These statements I make are not attacks. They're truthful and fact based. I hope your plans work out for you. Go for it!

Walter, I also commend you...lol.

Blechh! March 28, 2008 at 2:45 a.m.

If you were to equate CCU with the movie industry, traditional colleges would be mainstream and CCU would be porn. Not many pornstars crossover to the mainstream side. If that's the world you want to slither around in, be my guest.

You can give all the examples of so-called success stories you want. You can make all of the US Dept of Ed references you want, but one thing will always ring true. CCU stinks. Prepare to be sneered at when you proudly brag about your CCU diploma to 95% of the people you meet.

tic tac March 28, 2008 at 9:02 p.m.

This should clear up any misconceptions on DETC that you many have.

http://distancelearn.about.com/od/accred...

Tam March 29, 2008 at 12:08 a.m.

Walter's definitions--
Reputable site: One that is run by NA people and, of course, favors NA.
Objective site: One that is run by NA people and, of course, favors NA.
Horrible site: One that is reputable and objective by the definition of normal people.

Walter March 29, 2008 at 2:25 a.m.

Tam,
Allbusiness Schools is mostly a RA school's website! They have information on AACSB and ACBSP accredited schools! They also have information on DETC and/or RA business school accreditation. They’re primary concern is distance education and accredited business schools. Elearners is part of Education Dynamics and has nothing to do with NA accreditors. Sorry!

Tam March 29, 2008 at 2:35 a.m.

Accreditation Accreditation Accreditation.
How many time do you have to bring that word up to make some sort of claim that your non-RA online school is worth anything? I could care less about what sorry alternative non-RA accreditation CCU has.

Me and tic tac is give the readers opposing view equal time, otherwise it would be a CCU love fest here. The people need to know what they're getting for their time and money. Not much!

tic tac March 29, 2008 at 8:19 p.m.

Sorry everyone but I have not taken my medicine lately and I have too much time in my hands, I suffer from personality disorder and I have several personalities that takes over when I am not taking my medicine. Sorry for all the stupidity and other things.

Tam March 29, 2008 at 10:53 p.m.

Walter, you're a stubborn man.
Perhaps I feel like I can be a better employee than a Harvard grad, so I'll just get any ol' diploma and plan to beat his butt out there in the world. Perhaps even a diploma mill degree will do for me. Yeah, right!

You're still leaving it up to the government to do the distinguishing for ya, eh? Well, my university (with a div. 1 football team, thank you) educated me for a better LIFE. Your idea of education is to minimally train someone for a low-end job or punch a ticket for a mid-career flunky. Education is what it is, Walter. Perhaps you didn't get it when you matriculated.

Tam March 30, 2008 at 5:10 a.m.

Well, at least they got half educated.

Tam March 30, 2008 at 3:05 p.m.

JS,
You want my opinions to go away, but you want yours to predominate? What commie country do you live in?

Like I said before, this sight was never intended to be a CCU love fest and recruiting portal. People need to know the truth no matter how much you CCU sales people object. People need to know the true value level of an NA/online (non-RA) school like CCU. It has it's place, but the constant overselling is making me nauseous. This sight is about CCU's goods AND bads. If I feel that people are writing posts that misrepresent CCU, then I'll be equal time with my posts.

And yes, I will defend my RA/B&M education from your attacks. That includes any any reference that NA/online and RA/B&M are equal. I take that as an attack and insult.

Walter March 31, 2008 at 12:38 a.m.

Hi Tam,

You’re missing the point! Nobody here’s stating NA and RA agencies are equal or better. If that was the case, all schools would be first tier correct? It should be noted, US DoE and CHEA use the same evaluation process for both RA and NA accreditors. Does that mean they’re equal? Furthermore, the RA accreditor that oversees Harvard University and Thomas Edison College also use the same evaluation process for each of these schools. Does that mean Thomas Edison College rates the same as Harvard? My point; it’s the college that administrates the education (And student that acquires that education) not the agency that accredits that college.

Anyone can claim their university’s superiority, but skill sets validate their abilities, not perceived qualities. Example; RA grad and NA grad interview for an IT position. The NA grad has Security IT Cert’s and experience in security technologies. The RA grad doesn’t have certs or experience outside their degree. My HR department states they recognize both degrees. Which one do I hire? Your rationale would suggest I hire the RA grad, and spend another $5,000 in training, and wait 5-10 years for his/her experience to catch up! If during the interview I discover the NA grad can’t complete a sentence, that would be the problem not their degree. If the basic skill sets aren’t there, neither graduate should be hired. If both were bringing the same skill sets to the table, most would hire the RA grad over NA grad. I would suggest that’s more to do with recognition than accreditation. If your RA/NA school has a good reputation with the company, you’re one up on the other interviewees. But if the skill sets aren’t there, your schools’ reputation alone won’t win the day.

Businesses should stop settling on both ends, and hire the skill sets they need. I’m not knocking either school, but looking at the practical gains vs. lost skill sets. Thanks!

Tam March 31, 2008 at 12:34 p.m.

From your logic, why would I or anyone pay the price and take the time to go to Harvard. Just get an NA/online diploma with some experience and kick that Harvard man's butt out there! Right? Yeah, sure.

It's all about what level a job you want. What kind of career do you want? Know your level when you associate with CCU. It aint very high, but hey, it can help a little.

Tam March 31, 2008 at 8:02 p.m.

Jamie,
What are you reading? I never said anything about needing an RA degree to be successful. Heck, livin' in a double-wide is a castle to some. Just know what success means to you. I guess I have higher standards.

I agree with you that if you get your foot in the door, then it's up to you to succeed. RA/B&M just opens more doors & bigger doors. (imagine tall double-wide doors with gigantic knobs). NA/online opens doors too. (Imagine a coo-coo clock door).

Let me appologize for that previous statement. It's untruthful, but it just sounded so good I just had to write it. Sayin' stuff like that does makes me sound arrogant. (Pardon me whilst I eat my "samich" with grey poupon)

BTW: You said you're an Adjunct Prof. at several universities because of your NA master's degree? Are you sure? At my university (with a div. I football team, thank you!) only hires Adjunct Profs with terminal degrees - as do all the other universities I know. Since I'm not a name caller, I'll just say that I don't think you're telling the truth or you're part-time teaching at some non-RA's.

Tam March 31, 2008 at 9:54 p.m.

Jamie,
Oh come on. No sense of humor? Opinions are what they are, Jamie. Call it heckling all you want. I think I'd heckle a commie spouting off on a street corner soap box the same as I'd heckle you spouting off your BS.

All you've provided are biased comments, biased websites and biased research. Are you gonna keep blabbin' that NA/Online is anywhere equal to RA/B&M???? People know you're full of it. If you think attacking me is going to shore up your position, think again.

BTW: I don't believe a word you say about your teachings. You blew that on your previous post.

JS March 31, 2008 at 11:34 p.m.

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!! NO ONE IS SAYING RA IS EQUIVALENT TO NA!! WE ARE NOT TRYING TO BE.
WE HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE TO ANYONE BUT TO OURSELVES.

AGAIN, THAT DOESNT MEAN NA STUDENTS ARE HALF EDUCATED OR THAT NA IS A BAD WAY TO GO.

Tam April 1, 2008 at 12:59 a.m.

Thanks Walter!
Keep telling potential customers (students) of CCU what they want to hear. Get a shortcut CCU degree and fall in with the rest. Get that "ticket" (degree) for a job so you can show everyone how great you are.

I had a Hyundai salesman tell me their cars are just as good as BMW by saying it will get you from point A to point B just the same. You can't use car logic to sell CCU. To me, that's the same as lying.

I don't need to back up ANYTHING I say with research. I'm authority enough on what's going on here.

Tam April 1, 2008 at 2:45 a.m.

It certainly isn't your primary concern, Walter.
A complete and full education is multi-faceted. Not a ticket punch operation like what you're selling.

Get off it, Walter. If some sucker wants to buy what you're selling, so be it. Let him find out on his own how far it will really get him. Then, I hope he finds you and beats your butt for selling him on all this.

This is tiresome. I'm getting ill reading the tripe you guys are spewing. All I can say is, BUYER BEWARE!

Jamie April 1, 2008 at 3:37 a.m.

Walter,

It's beyond obvious that Tam has no interest in learning anything.

Jamie April 1, 2008 at 5:43 a.m.

Hi JS,

I think anyone who reads "Tam's" self-proclaimed comments can read right through his/her bull crap. Most people who enroll into DETC schools understand the differences between RA and NA accreditation.

As for Walter, he's been an excellent source of information and a great contributor to this forum. Unfortunately, I've been guilty of the mud slinging at Tam's ridiculous comments, but when someone is so beyond brain dead, has no logical thinking skills, yet continues to barrage this site, I can't help but dish the insults right back.

JS April 1, 2008 at 9:34 p.m.

Funny, we have not been anything but patient and humble with the attacks and insults here but yet, we're on our high horse?hmm.. I don't think were were the one claiming about superiority here or BEING EQUAL(AGAIN). All were saying was that NA is another choice fOR other people and that its accredited and that it is recognized whether other superior beings like it or not.
We were not offended with your arguments but your consistent personal attacks is a differnt story.

Yes, Walter has been a good source of information. I don't see him as being biased or endorsing CCU/NA but was just giving the facts of NA/CCU nor did he said anything negative about RA schools.

See, you're right, we know what NA is and we don't have to explain it to anyone. Like I've mentioned before, WE HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE TO ANYONE ESPECIALLY TO YOU TAM, BUT ONLY TO OURSELVES. WE KNOW OUR CAPABILTIES AND THE SOCIETY WILL SEE THAT.

Tam April 2, 2008 at 12:19 a.m.

Sir, Yes Sir! Thank you Sir, may I have another?
If I'm digging myself deeper, then ya'll are really piling it on. You losers know your place. Stay there.

Tam April 2, 2008 at 4:09 a.m.

You jerks wrote the book on name-calling. I've been called every name in the book here. It just gives me more fuel to fight. Keep it up. I'm thinking of putting this debate in high gear and take off the gloves. Are you ready?

JS April 2, 2008 at 6:39 a.m.

Sorry, but we correspondence "jerks" "losers" cannot reach DOWN to your level. GOOD LUCK!

Jamie April 2, 2008 at 3:01 p.m.

Tam,

We've continued to encourage you to leave this forum, but for some reason you don't listen. As stated, you've made your useless point(s). Get over it and move on.

Unfortunately, this site got messed up the day you joined! If you're so wrapped up in your RA education that's fine. You don't see me attacking you because of it. I'll say it again and again; I AM AN RA GRADUATE AS WELL. You don't see me walking around on a pedestal with some higher than thou attitude. The only thing you've proved is your lack of education.

The only personal attacks are ones that you've started, and now people are dishing it back right at you. You don't likey? Too bad!! If you stop the personal attacks against NA students and graduates then the attacks will stop from this end. Then, and only then, can we have a civilized discussion.

Jamie April 2, 2008 at 6:08 p.m.

Tam,

There's no frustration on this end whatsoever. Annoyance with your ignorance is more accurate.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion on this matter and it has been dually documented on this forum many times over. We get it; you don't like NA schools and think their inferior to RA schools. There are many who disagree with your opinion. I can agree to disagree with you on this matter.

Unless you've experience both RA and NA schools you have no valid comparison. If anything, many student and graduates from both RA and NA schools found that the NA school was more rigors and challenging. In addition, several schools that have both DETC and RA accreditation have found that DETC was harder to achieve and maintain than RA.

Can CSU compare with major research universities and/or Ivy League schools? Of course not, and we never made that claim. CSU is a great option for busy working professionals that need an affordable accredited degree program.

JS April 2, 2008 at 10:27 p.m.

You're right Tam, Can't we just get along? I have encouraged everyone here to just respect personal opinions and lay off from personal attacks. I apologize if you perceived my comments as attacks to you. It was never our intentions to attack people personally. I think Walter and Jamie will agree to that. You can admit that you started the personal attacks and I guess some took ofense to it and have to defend themselves.
It's all a matter of opinions and like what Jamie said, if you don't have the experience of both NA/RA, I don't think you will actaully have the knowledge.

But for you to feel at ease, AGAIN I will state it, we never claimed to be equal to other RA schools just as CCU is not equal to other NA schools for they have their own way of eduacting their students.NA don't claim to be more rigorous than RA's but they are rigorous and they do meet standards. Harvard standard? absolutely not and we never claimed that and never will.

tic tac April 3, 2008 at 3:41 a.m.

@Jamie's last comment...

Tam my not have gone to a DETC school but I have and was burned by CSU. The materials were good but the instruction was non-existant with little constructive feedback. Isn't recieving an education supposed to be taught something by someone else? What am I paying these people for if I have nothing but to teach myself? Education shouldn't be about posting assignments and just doing them... bam here is your grade.. welcome to graduation. What I expect from an online program is presentations that address multiple learning strategies. I want audio power points, podcasts, notes, writing labs, library subscriptions to all the journals, and quality feedback. Is that too much to ask for? It might get you an accredited degree but it is little more than an library/internet connection with DOEs stamp of approval to issue paper.

Jamie April 3, 2008 at 4:24 a.m.

Tic Tac,

I am sorry to hear that you did not have a good experience at CSU. Schools like CSU are considered to be directed studies, where the student has to be self-motivated to complete the assignments. If you want a school that has more interaction then find a school that has it. For me, I am an independent thinker and learner, so I don't need all the fancy bells and whistles to learn, so CSU was a good fit for me. The instructors don't hold your hand through the course, but if you ever got stuck or had a question they were always readilty available to help. I truly hope you find a school that fits all your needs.

DMZ April 7, 2008 at 12:56 a.m.

I recently decided to attend California Coast University due to my heavy case load at work it gives me ample time to complete my degree. After reading several posts here I wonder why those of you continue to put down this University. It has great curriculum and the instructors are very helpfull. As far as a accreditation goes, it is nationally accredited so why all the hub-bub? If you don't like it just get on with yourself and attend another university! I read a comment on here where someone mentioned a fried of theirs attended an online college and they got help from others while going through their program, well, it's like the old saying "Integrity is who you are when no one is watching". Otherwise if a person has little integrity they're going to cheat regardless of where they attend college. Personally I have to use for someone in the work place or in a personal relationship with someone who has little if any personal integrity. CCU is a great University and I enjoy the curriculum and the instructors.

P April 11, 2008 at 7:45 p.m.

Well, if I had to select a school (NA over RA) based on the communication skills of these posters, Walter wins over Tam hands down.

Walter, you certainly show that your communication (especially writing) skills are solid. Tam, you on the other hand, got the short end of the deal - I guess your so called “gold standard” didn’t work out for you.

USN O-6 (ret) April 12, 2008 at 7:03 a.m.

There is nothing wrong with Tam's grammar or written communication skills. It would be hard for it to be anything besides written so the mention of it is idiotic. Both Walter and Tam make good points. What we don't need is people like P adding ad hominem attacks to a discussion that had legs. Walter, I had hoped you wouldn't endorse such behavior with an acknowledgment of appreciation for something so juvenile. Both Walter and Tam's COM skills are just fine. P does not know how to successfully interject into a debate. People like P only make our (distance Ed supporters) positions look weak in context.

PsiChi April 16, 2008 at 5:57 p.m.

I have graduated with a MS in Psychology from California Coast University (CCU). My nationally accredited degree has been accepted by two states for advanced level substance abuse counselor credentialling. I partnered a practicum from Northcentral University and that with my curriculum from CCU met all requirements. Check the letter to the DETC from the U.S. Department of Education affirming their place as an accrediting body. The only delineation between them and others is the areas they accredit. http://www.detc.org/downloads/GriffithsL...

Walter April 18, 2008 at 11:49 p.m.

Buck you’re absolutely right!!!!!!

Give up ladies and gentlemen! This CCU’s page has been corrupted and no longer serves the purpose (information gathering and structured debate) it was attended to serve. It lacks a mediator for one thing and topic distinctions. My suggestion, develop your own forum on CCU’s website like PSU, CSU, CNU and other online colleges with logins. Potential students will inquire through the university anyway and usually base their decisions on their own research. Thanks!

See ya’ll later!!!!!

PS: If you ask me, all these forums are corrupted! Just read what potential students are posting after reading various augments (between the haves and have-nots) on the various blogs.

Buck April 21, 2008 at 6:11 p.m.

This is the last post that ever made any sense.
It's from "Tam" back about 2-1/2 weeks ago. It's a post I believe this sight can build on.

(Tam: as follows)

Well, I respectfully disagree with you and your opinions - that have been documented on this forum many times over as well.

With that said, I don't think any NA/online is more rigorous than RA (generally speaking) and I don't think DETC is harder to achieve and maintain that RA. But, those are just my unqualified opinions.

I do agree with you that CCU doesn't compare with the majors, but it is a great option for working folks far from a classroom. If someone is finding it difficult to attend a traditional RA college, CCU might mean the difference between remaining a drop-out or actually ending up with an NA degree.

(end)

Now, that's a good start. Right? Lets build on that!

aviatorpepe April 23, 2008 at 7:30 p.m.

California Coast University (CCU) is not a degree mill. CCU is accredited by the Distance Education and Training Council (DETC), a US department of education recognized accrediting agency. Furthermore, DETC is a recognized member of the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA). Therefore, its degrees are not illegal.

The information presented in the youtube video is mostly journalistic sensationalism. Prior to becoming nationally accredited, CCU was approved and given Institutional Approval by the State of California through the Bureau of Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education (BPPVE). Every State, however, has had a lot of latitude in terms of determining which academic approval and accreditation it chooses to accept within its borders.

The youtube segment focused on the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board acceptance of CCU’s degrees; but as their own website shows, CCU degrees are not in the list of illegal degrees in Texas.

In conclusion, California Coast University is an accredited University and not a degree mill as suggested by Joe.

Pepe

Buck April 23, 2008 at 8:48 p.m.

Texas is tough on "substandard" schools. It's a class B misdemeanor to claim CCU on you resume there.

http://www.southeasttexaslive.com/site/n...

tic tac April 23, 2008 at 10:17 p.m.

DETC is not recognized by the state of Texas... wow. I thought national accreditation was universal.

Walter April 23, 2008 at 11:47 p.m.

Aviatorpepe,

You are correct! A recent lawsuit (Texas) was filed and changes are being made concerning this issue. Thanks!

Walter April 24, 2008 at 1:08 a.m.

If someone called you and your company a fraud, and your company lost millions of dollars, and they were proven wrong, you wouldn't file a lawsuit for defamation of character? If not, you're in the minority! Thanks!

Walter April 24, 2008 at 1:50 a.m.

Here you go!

http://www.instantcertonline.com/forums/...

Second page answers your question! Remember, Diploma mills are illegal! Question: why weren't they charged? Evidence? Unsubstantiated claims? What?

Just wondering!

Walter April 24, 2008 at 2:43 a.m.

If it were substantiated, why weren't they charged? Columbia State University (LA) was charged and convicted criminally for being a DM! Charges were substantiated and parties were convicted! In other words, not all claims are charged, and not all charges are convicted! Correct?

Walter April 24, 2008 at 9:53 a.m.

Sorry, here you go:

A diploma or degree mill is an entity that sells postsecondary credentials without requiring appropriate academic achievement. In many jurisdictions inside and outside the United States, diploma mills are ILLEGAL. These scam operations can be difficult to trace because they usually use mail drops and multiple addresses. Numerous degree mills operate on the Internet, where they often masquerade as institutions of distance learning. Legitimate distance-learning providers are recognized in the countries where they are located, and their status can be verified by contacting the relevant educational authorities.

Degree mills have been around for hundreds of years, and they are still flourishing all over the world. During the 1980s, the number of phony schools significantly diminished as a result of the "DipScam" diploma-mill task force of the FBI. Its work, described below, helped secure indictments and, in most cases, convictions of a great many people who operated scores of phony colleges and universities.

The FBI looked into hundreds of nonaccredited schools. Some were found to be harmless, innocuous, even good, and no actions were taken. When there was evidence of chicanery, a search warrant was issued, and FBI vans hauled off tons of papers and records. In many cases, but not all, a federal grand jury handed down indictments. And when they did, in many cases, the indictees pleaded guilty to mail or wire (telephone) fraud, and received fines and sentences in federal prison.

Thanks!

aviatorpepe April 24, 2008 at 4:25 p.m.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I am trying to understand why some posters display such hostility toward distance learning in general and CCU specifically. Would it be because so many people have expressed praise toward distance education and given so many accolades to CCU?

Please don’t forget that this is a review site for CCU and therefore it is natural for current and former students to express their experience with the institution. With that said, those who show animosity in the direction of distance education need to understand that this type of education is neither designed nor appropriate for everyone. Typically, students who embark in distance learning (DL) are mature – both in age and emotionally – and comparing it to traditional B&M education is like comparing apples to oranges. DL serves a very different sector of the student population than traditional education. For the most part DL students are mature individuals, already established in the labor pool, and seek career advancement or to change careers. Traditional education, on the other hand, serves the “just out of high school” individual who may or may not know in which academic direction to go.

CCU methodology is mainly correspondence with some on- line aspects. Therefore, it requires someone with high levels of discipline and self-motivation to succeed in this kind of program. There is no hand-holding here. If you need constant supervision and direction CCU is not for you. The majority of CCU students (like myself) are established professionals who 1) know what we want academically, 2) need the flexibility of a self-paced program, and 3) have the discipline to study and complete assignments mostly unsupervised.

Having divergent opinions is healthy. But attacking alternate educational methods just because they are different is absurd. DL has been around for many decades and in an era where mobility, flexibility, and efficiency are at a premium, DL will continue to attract more and more sympathizers. DL is not meant to replace traditional education; it however, is and will continue to supplement traditional education.

Pepe

Well, well, well April 25, 2008 at 12:19 a.m.

Buck, Joe, Tam, Tic Tac and Dave! (All in the family!)

Why so bitter? Did an online DETC grad take your promotion?

Maybe it was an online RA grad and you're taking it out on all DL grads!!!!

Real grads don't attack other schools; we're to busy making money with our degrees!!!!!!!!!

PS: Get a life!!!!!

Buck April 25, 2008 at 6:37 p.m.

As for bad mouthing CCU from traditional grads who lost a job to a DETC grad. First, It would never happen. All I see are CCU students and grads indirectly bad mouthing tradional schools by making rediculous comparisons and saying things like "My former B&M school was a joke"...etc..etc. If any traditional schools (that you flunked out of) are a joke, then CCU is a laugh-riot.

A DETC degree is a check-off degree. It's not an education. I've never seen an example of a DL grad with no experience be competitive with traditional grads. NEVER. It certainly would be IMPOSSIBLE where I work.

A great education is for YOU. It's not for the company you want to work for. It's about being "educated". I'm fortunate in that regard. A DETC grad would not have a clue what I'm talking about.

I've read where CCU students are knocking out an entire course in less than 3 weeks. That little of time, with no lectures, no class interactions/discussions, no proper mentoring etc. is NO education.

The come-back for that point would always be "I don't NEED to be lectured to and guided through a course..etc..etc." If you say that, then you are not educatable. You'd be a monkey...they get "trained", not educated.

Traditional educational is an institution in America. Don't promote CCU as "just as good". IT ISN'T and NEVER WILL BE. All the stories relating CSU to "success" are PUNY, but hey...if you're "down there"...it can raise you a notch. Whoopie! Just have decades of experience to go with it.

"Why so bitter"?
Real (RA) grads have every right to attack DETC, especially when so much propaganda is being written.

CSU / CCU? April 25, 2008 at 6:40 p.m.

Same difference.
Both a joke.

Londinium April 26, 2008 at 3:55 a.m.

The University of London is made up of 31 different colleges. It is comperable to SUNY or UC university systems. Each campus has different rankings and your diploma says which one you attended, especailly those using distance education. It's worth what it's worth but you won't fool anybody into thinking you went to King's College even though it's part of the University of London.

Londinium April 26, 2008 at 3:26 p.m.

If you mean Birkbeck College you can't really equate it to the rest of the uni of London system. Birkbeck is a part timers college with second hand evening faculty. Other colleges have different labour assessments.

Joe April 26, 2008 at 4:02 p.m.

Pepe, the data set is flawed. The age deviation is over 12 years. Of course older folks are going to get better grades. Young people just want to get out.

aviatorpepe April 26, 2008 at 4:58 p.m.

Joe,

In general, distance learners tend to be older.Therefore, the data reflects an accurate sample of the distance learning population. For research purposes, this study (albeit 7 years old), accurately reflects today’s contrast between traditional and non-traditional students.

Pepe

Joe April 26, 2008 at 10:15 p.m.

Pepe,

They went to a traditional school that had a DL course, that is quite a bit different than attending for-profit schools that are online only. No one here is saying that DL is inferior. They are arguing that for-profit DL is inferior. If they went to schools with open enrollment policies and put into that class the scores would be far below that of the traditional candidates.

Buck April 27, 2008 at 12:36 a.m.

Lots of traditional schools have a few courses that are set up like DL courses. Just a few courses.

Anyone here trying for ONE SECOND to imply that DL is ANYWHERE CLOSE to being ANYWHERE NEAR a traditional education is a COMPLETE MORON!

All of these WEIRD school names being thrown around with statements of reputation following. If you have to do that, it's a stink school! If you have to explain ANYTHING about where you went to school, then you got a LOUSEY diploma.

Now! Take your DL diploma and get your supervisor job down at the local prison or security company. I've NEVER read a REAL success story about DL. LOTS of stories of people getting RIPPED OFF. Nothing but very experienced people getting promoted at a crappy job that punched their ticket with a DL diploma. This is so sick. Why would ANYONE consider blowing THOUSANDS of dollars on a WASTE of time diploma like this school. One man called it his "throwdown diploma".

Fred April 27, 2008 at 2:20 a.m.

Buck:

Lots of traditional school offer MANY DL courses, MANY offer entire degree programs via DL. Your DL research is incomplete at best.

Evidently, these same traditional schools disagree with you with regards to quality, since they award the same credential to their DL students as they do to their resident students.

If you think the University of London system is a stinky "school", you have not done your homework. Please stop embarrasing yourself and look it up. Educate yourself on their assessment method, and yes, its standing in the worldwide academic community.

You have not heard any "REAL" success stories? Spend a few minutes doing a bit more research before making such an ignorant and assinine comment. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this one, but get informed, please.

Also, please explain why Colorado State University and Weber State University award credit for classes with little to no professor interaction, thru independent study. Maybe they know a little more about the efficacy of distance learning than you. Consider that possibility. (By the way, these schools offer degrees via DL, not just coursework).

Thank you for your opinion regarding the crappy jobs you can get with DL diplomas. Everyone here will keep it in mind.

Buck April 27, 2008 at 12:55 p.m.

CCU people have no concept of education other than: Pay up - get diploma - advance your career. It mocks education as an institution. This strategy appeals to a certain kind of "customer" that wants a short-cut in life. What pi$$es off traditional school people like me is that you are selling this as a back-door sheepskin that you claim brings with it all that a traditional education brings. It doesn't and never will.

It's as insulting to me as owning a fine jewely store with some guy right on your front sidewalk selling fakes and telling everyone "You don't have to go inside and get a real gem, stop here and get this cheap fake gem that looks just as good".

Education is purely about substance. CCU doesn't have it. In my realm, it would actually do you more harm than good - you'd actually be laughed out on your butt while someone with a degree from the smallest RA would do just fine.

Fred April 27, 2008 at 2:35 p.m.

Buck:

According to you, the U.S. Dept of Education is perpetrating the biggest scam of all time, since it approves of DETC, which in turn, accredits good for nothing schools who in turn sell worthless credentials. And since DETC schools are eligible for Title IV participation, a student could use taxpayer monies to pay for the scam.

What are your issues with DETC? Is it their standards? Or their enforcement? Or do you have a problem with DL in general?

Dont feel insulted. You're going to feel like an ass for doing so once you've gained more knowledge and confidence in DL methods.

Education is about substance? Yes, and in other news, man has landed on moon.

If in your realm DETC degrees are not up to par, then fine. However, can you speak for the experience of other adminstrators in other industries? Of course not.

All DL degrees (DETC and RA) have limitations to varying degrees, no pun intended.

Why the name dropping? First, stop being defensive and learn. This is done to educate you on acceptance of the independent study model by the traditional education sector. For example,the London School of Economics thru U of L will award a business degree based on 10 or so exams. No professor lectures. NO instruction.

You accused CCU of not offering an education. Your basis for doing so is based on ignorance as I demonstrated with the above example. Course completion time is not necessarily a factor in the learnig process. Independent study allows for accelaration, or decelaration, of completion of coursework. A correspondance course from a traditional college can be completed in a matter of weeks as well, with no proctors AND no I.D. check. In fact, do you realize that you can get credit from an traditional RA university without taking the course at all? It's called, among several things, experential learning credit. The credit can be awarded as quickly as you can gather your portfolio materials.
Can you cheat at CCU? Of course. Can you cheat your way into a degree? I'm sure you can. But that is a separate issue, since cheating can be accomplished in any setting in many different ways, whether the school is RA or DETC. The issue is what policies are in place and how they are enforced.

Educate yourself on the value of independent study before you continue to embarass yourself on this forum.

JS April 28, 2008 at 12:36 a.m.

Well said Pepe!

I don't quite understand the people who claim to be so well educated, yet attack other people's intelligence. You can have different oppinions and arguments are healthy but when you start attacking people personally and throwing insults, well that just show how "well educated" you truly are!

Why can't everyone just respect both RA and NA. They have their differences as people have different needs and different goals. RA schools accepts NA credits, so there must be something good about NA if RA's are accepting them.

Like I said before, I don't see anyone claiming NA to be better than RA here or even equal. But that doesn't mean NA is inferior in general.

For those who claim to finish the course in 3 weeks, well, it's possible but the fact remains that you can't take the finals without passing the essay(500 words) and if your essay shows lack of understanding, they will fail you and ask you to retake the course. A friend of mine, like I mentioned before had received a very interesting feedback from the professor. Saying that her essay were not college equivalent, lack of understanding and that it was poorly written and did not allow her to take the finals. It may not be as rigorous as a traditional school but they are rigorous.

aviatorpepe April 28, 2008 at 1:01 a.m.

You are right, they don’t have to, but they certainly do. That’s why we have so many foreign trained professionals in the USA.

Pepe

Walter April 28, 2008 at 1:17 a.m.

Buck..
STAND DOWN!
You're right, but please let us continue our charade.

aviatorpepe April 28, 2008 at 2:06 a.m.

Ha, ha, ha, ha…Buck, thank you for the great comedy moment. It is always nice to finish the weekend on a funny note.

Pepe

Buck April 28, 2008 at 2:46 a.m.

Hi, I'm Buck, I'm equal time representing the truth.

To all readers of the pro-CCU tripe spewed on this forum. Run away! Go get a real education!

Walter April 28, 2008 at 9:42 a.m.

To All,

My last post was April 24, 2008! Don't pull me into your debate Tam aka: Buck!!!!!!!!

Thanks!

JS April 28, 2008 at 10:24 p.m.

"THAT AINT NO EDUCATION" Wow Buck, I would'nt want to learn from your RA school if that's how they teach you grammar and english is my second language.

You really need to stand down on your personal attacks and insults. I'm sorry, but it just shows how intelligent you are.

Walter April 28, 2008 at 11:41 p.m.

The first April 28, 2008, isn't mine but the second is mine! Thanks!

Buck April 29, 2008 at 3:48 a.m.

Walter, what the heck are you babblin' about?

Half the problem you people have is in what you DON'T say in your posts. That slick method doesn't fly with me. If you or anyone EVER implies CCU is in a traditional RA league, I'll be here to set your butt straight, so stay off my (traditional RA) turf! There are so many positive things you bozo's can yap about here instead of the BS I've been reading. Keep it real, or else I'll continue to keep it real for you.

Shuddup and do this:
How 'bout you and all the others get real about what CCU is? Talk about how a man (or woman) that has had it tough (for whatever reason) can work hard, gain work experience and separate themselves from the rest of the non-degreed pack by carving out a hard earned diploma from CCU. Talk about how they can actually find a way to get to the next level in life. That's what CCU is all about in my mind. Also, be specific about what segments of the economy would welcome a CCU grad degree, but never imply it's welcome all over. Finally, lose the military recruiting tone. It's sorta sick.

This is your chance to move on, continue commenting positively about CCU and leave the confrontations behind. End.

Buck May 1, 2008 at 2:58 p.m.

That's right, JS.
Giving good information about CCU (specifically) and mixing in some good truthful life strategies with it are what people want to read about.

CCU is fully an NA (CHEA) accredited school. Anyone wanting more information about NA and CHEA should go to the CHEA website. Very good information there. Those wishing to get information about RA can go to the same sight. The two are different, but any discussion on this forum about their comparisons tends to lead to a rivalry/equality debate which irritates RA folks by implying they are the same.

Buck May 3, 2008 at 12:47 p.m.

Since this is a sight dedicated to CCU, any mention of some RA schools being questionable gives false credibility to the equality argument between RA & NA. Even when there is a discussion of shared shortcomings in both, it serves no purpose. If Harvard had questionable practices, it wouldn't do any good to even mention it on my State U's forum - for whatever reason. Harvard could literally become a country club, handing out diplomas left and right, but it would make no difference.

The fact remains that NA schools provide an education with credential to many folks that have made life and career path choices that can benefit from it. CCU posts should remain focused on helping and informing those students and potential students. It'd be nice to mention accreditation only as a matter-of-fact.

All of the tough questions such as transfer of credits (etc) should be dealt with honestly. Most responses to that question here sound like pharmaceutical ads on TV. EG: Sure, it works great! (Not for everybody. Check with your doctor. Has side affects) I believe that is what contributes to people believing that most posts on this sight are actually made by CCU enrollment counselors.

BeeKay May 13, 2008 at 7:20 a.m.

Anyone hear of someone graduating with an NA BS/BA and getting accepted into an ABA-approved Tier 1 Law School? Just curious...

USN (O-6) ret May 15, 2008 at 5 a.m.

You tell em Jesse. The SOC list pays for all of it. OCS will take any DOE accredited degree under the sun, but that isn't a diploma mill. Does that gaurantee you a spot in OCS... not necessarily. In the Army you have a high chance of being selected but in the USAF it is a bit more selective. If you are going up against kids with traditional degrees and some ROTC they will go to the front of the line. If they have none you might beat them out with time served. It all depends. I don't doubt you will be selected but it isn't all roses either.

Buck May 16, 2008 at 9:19 p.m.

Government paying for CCU education?

Sad that the government would spend taxpayer money on NA education that the revenue side taxpayers would benefit little from. Mostly a "take" senario for government employees (soldiers, fire, police...etc) because the primary employer would be the government for NA educated people. The revenue side (private sector) is getting drained paying for all this because the root source of ALL government money is the revenue side taxpayer. It's government self-perpetuating itself by accepting NA education that the private sector doesn't openly accept, but is forced to pay for.

I don't think this is good for America. It just makes the private sector and government more polarized.

Vote for BUCK - US Senate...lol.

Tam May 17, 2008 at 12:20 a.m.

Oh Noooo! Vote for Tam...

Walter May 17, 2008 at 1:13 p.m.

Vote for me, Walter.
I get money for drumming up biz for online schools.

BeeKay May 21, 2008 at 12:53 a.m.

Well said, Well,well,well...

I'm still wondering though, seriously, have any of you heard of a person graduating from an undergrad program at a nationally accredited school, putting together a good package, scoring well on the LSAT and getting accepted into an ABA-approved law school?

aviatorpepe May 21, 2008 at 1:47 a.m.

That’s a great question. One I often have wondered about myself. While schools have a variety of guidelines and their policies are as diverse as applicants themselves, my research shows that having a nationally accredited bachelor degree is not in any way detrimental to one’s ability to apply and be accepted to law school. For instance:

From The University of Mississippi School of Law website:

GENERAL INFORMATION

The University of Mississippi School of Law requires that every applicant take the Law School Admission Test (LSAT), register for Law School Data Assembly Service (LSDAS) and earn a bachelor’s degree from a regionally or nationally accredited college or university prior to matriculation.

Admission to the School of Law is based on the applicant’s academic ability and aptitude for the study of law. Two of the primary factors considered in the admission process are performance on the LSAT and undergraduate grade-point average. However, we are aware that these are not the only criteria that should be considered. Other considerations are
1. Residency
2. Difficulty of major field of study
3. Job experience
4. Social, personal or economic background and circumstances
5. Nonacademic achievements
6. Letters of recommendation
7. Grade patterns and progression
8. Diversity

I hope this information help you in your research.

Regards,

Pepe

BeeKay May 21, 2008 at 6:10 p.m.

aviatorpepe and Well,well,well - thank you both for your replies and help with that question.

Well,well,well - Wow! Getting into a Tier 1 Law School without finishing her undergraduate work - I wonder just how often this occurs... Nevertheless, your example is an encouragement to me. Thanks!

Well, well,well May 25, 2008 at 1:56 a.m.

The 9th edition of Judging the Law Schools ranks Thomas M. Cooley Law School (16th)!

dave from april 2007 post May 29, 2008 at 5:45 p.m.

Ok, please, enough of the I am smarter than you because I went to school X. Some of you need to realize you can be proud of your education without cutting every body else down. If you have not been to CCU or are not thinking about going there, please do not waste your time and ours by posting.

Does any one know if CCU will offer a phd or a psyd in psychology at some point?

Well, well, well May 30, 2008 at 2:12 a.m.

Hey, I corrected that statement by informing Beekay usnews doesn't see them as tier 1, or even tier 3 for that matter! They're still ABA approved though and you'll be able to practice anywhere in the United States. Wrong Joe, they're illegal in some not all states. And lay off CCU and DETC schools dude! Tier 1 through 3 grads degrading other schools, what has the world come to! That would show an inferiority complex. My bat's bigger and better than yours!

Well, well, well May 30, 2008 at 10:33 a.m.

The Citadel's a good school but Philadelphia University good also. That's my alma mater and we're not downing other goods either. Guess we're too busy making money along side those schools. Hey, if they transfer to Troy (tier 3) and graduate from there, who cares where they started at!!!!!!!!

Joe May 31, 2008 at 7:06 a.m.

DETC accredited schools are not allowed to offer research doctorates like PhDs. They can offer professional degrees like DBAs or EdDs if they get DOE approval.

Texas is the second largest state in the Union and doesn't recognize national accreditation.

The story in the video about CCU being a diploma mill hit late last year... not the eighties.

CCU is a for-profit institution.

Get the facts before you enroll!

Joe June 1, 2008 at 6:23 a.m.

No... the report just called it an illegal degree. Sounds like a diploma mill to everyone else. You don't have to get a life experience degree to get a substandard education. This school has been plastered all over the GAO report and television as a diploma mill in the recent past. You don't turn from a crock to an A+ education overnight so please get real.

Joe June 2, 2008 at 12:43 a.m.

Who cares what DETC sees it as? No one trusts government to regulate anything to good quality these days. The Chinese cut corners to import cheap cancer causing products and our government does nothing. Oil traders, health insurance providers, and mortgage speculators are given free reign to destroy the economic integrity of this nation while the government gives it the OK. No my friend... we should not rely on government to determine the quality of anything when they have failed so miserably. As responsible consumers we have to turn to all the other methods that are at our disposal to determine quality. Professional accreditations would be the first and most legitimate confirmation one could turn to for integrity. To place them in perspective you can turn to US News and World report for a comparison. You can check Peterson's to see just who is getting in to these schools. You need to see who the faculty is and what distinguishes them. It is the laziness of the American consumer and the laziness of US regulation that has brought about the scourge of bad products to market. It is up to us as intelligent customers to research and find the best we can. CCU is clearly not it. The GAO and the media have warned us.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoSwO3QL2qc

www.gao.gov/new.items/d04771t.pdf

Just because they managed to skirt by lax government regulation a few short years ago does not mean they provide a quality product today. They have no marks of quality... no professional accreditations, no ranking in US News, and no mention in Peterson's. They are just another government sanctioned shoddy product.

Joe June 2, 2008 at 4:52 a.m.

CHEA gets its power from government recognition so don't act like government sanction doesn't matter. I don't care about RA vs NA, that is the whole point. You can't trust either of those standards. You've got overpriced shoddy educations from RA like Ashford and Walden the same as you have shoddy NA educations from Grantham and CCU. Clearly the NA/RA debate is moot. With that established, being a diploma mill is a matter of semantics with schools like this. Just because they qualify for lowered expectation accreditation doesn't mean they offer a quality education. The litmus test must be raised by us, the consumer, and pit it against all the other options out there.

Checking to see if an accrediting agency is legitamate is flawed unless it is a professional accreditation. These seem to be the only marks of excellence we can go by as NA/RA is no badge of honor anymore. Some of the less reputable professional accreditations ending up on the DOE list is disturbing as well.

Peterson's only lists legit schools which CCU is not on.

Joe June 2, 2008 at 8:25 p.m.

I don't have a problem with alternate modalities of education as long as they are good quality and respected. I just don't see a point in spending thousands on something most people look down upon. It is like buying a lemon of an SUV and trying to sell it on an upsidedown loan... it isn't worth what you paid for and it doesn't work/move on the job market.

"I guess CCU didn’t return the survey."

Guess they have something to hide... :(

Walter June 3, 2008 at 12:24 a.m.

Joe,

I see your point and agree with most of your conclusions. I’ve stated in previous posting the NA vs. RA debate was moot. My only concern is ensuring CCU’s whole picture is painted and not some distorted outline. Also with their accreditation, I’ve also mentioned their flat rate tuition program (which was a major problem in my opinion), but must contest to your diploma mill reference. I’ve also reference quality in my postings and I’m very concern with its intensification. I also agree that CCU’s whole picture must be presented ensuring potential students make an educated decision. With that said, I still believe they serve a valuable function in our society. Thanks!

Joe June 3, 2008 at 2:28 a.m.

"NA vs RA is a moot debate as long as everyone understands that RA is the gold standard and NA is the lesser."

Gold standard of what? There are plenty of border line diploma mills out there with RA accreditation like Ashford online and Walden. It certainly doesn't differentiate good and bad programs. It is like saying you are king of the government crap pile. You have to look at everything and NA/RA just doesn't make any distinctions.

Walter June 3, 2008 at 1:39 p.m.

No! I'm not connected! Just another student trying to get an education! (lol) And there are good for profit schools out there: DeVry University (As of 2001, 5 of the top 10 producers of information technology degree graduates in the US were DeVry campuses) and Cal National University (students receive instruction from a distinguished national faculty) to name a few.

You're both right! Of course RAs are going to control the playing field, they've been around longer. Does that make them better, and better of what? Example: your mommy told you after turning eighteen; you're getting a million dollars. Two years after your twentieth birthday she gives you a hundred thousand along with your siblings. You ask her, where's the million at mommy? And she replies, babe there was never a million dollars. Well Tam, there isn't a gold standard and Joe's right the colleges set their own standards based on their professors and revenue gain to acquire those professors.

Joe, you would agree the accreditation agencies set a bar? (No matter how low you believe that bar’s set!) Thanks!

dave June 3, 2008 at 8:18 p.m.

Joe, the youtube video you keep bringing up was made in 1988. Look at the date in the bottom right corner when it starts. You are a smart person, I have to ask how it is you could have looked at it and not realized how old it is.

Tam, I spent 6 years in a state RA/B&M school. I am 41 years old, I have a family, a house, 3 cars and a full time job with a six figure income. I spent two years getting a masters degree at CCU. I worked on it every night. I read the latest text books, took test and wrote essays. I can tell you first hand, CCU is not a diploma mill. It is up to you if you believe me or not.

I am glad you lived the "college experience", so did I. It was great at the time, but that time has passed.CCU is designed for people like me. Some of you should consider this when you give your opinions. I am not "whining or demanidng respect" from any of you. I am saying CCU and schools like it have there place in our society.

No one has ever said CCU is a great school. It is an educational option that is accredited and accepted in every state but Texas (which it will soon be). I am not a CCU rep, I am not trying to make anyone think CCU is as good or equal with any other school. In fact, I am sure it is not.

I think RA is the "gold standard" but why not allow us slow ignorant "whining" people to get a "silver" education. It seems to me this will not take anything from you or your educational credentials.

Joe June 3, 2008 at 9:27 p.m.

@Tam

If RA was better they would never allow Ashford to offer 2/3 Life Experience degrees. CCU doesn't do that... RA/NA doesn't matter.

Joe June 3, 2008 at 11:25 p.m.

More diploma mill tactics...

Tam June 4, 2008 at 10:52 a.m.

RA/NA doesn't matter? Read the "real point" portion of my prior post. It's all about earned reputations. Something CCU doesn't have and never will.

I see no place in society for CCU other than to take peoples money, but that's just me. The false expectations of success rubs me the wrong way as well. It's all like saying a witch doctor is an alternative to real medicine. Some actually think it is, but that's just them.

dave June 4, 2008 at 5:14 p.m.

Joe, sorry, my mistake on the youtube video, the other one you found was lot more clear. Honestly, it looks real old on the youtube. It looked to me like someone found an old news story and posted it. That being said lets continue.

The story was prior to CCU getting DETC accredited. So of course, the Phd the judge had was not good, it was from an un accredited school. It should be noted that this same degree would be legal in the state of California. This was due to CCU being state sanctioned. The real problem is that people took degrees from CCU out of the state of California and ran into problems as CCU was non accredited. Being non accredited is not the same thing as a diploma mill. I think many people see non accredited and jump right to diploma mill. It is possible CCU was a diploma mill, I do not know, but I have to ask if the state of CA would sanction a diploma mill for over 20 years.

If CA did drop the ball and let CCU operate as a diploma mill then I trust the DETC, who does on cite reviews, would have figured it out. So, this is my question, if CCU is santioned by the state of California, is accredited by the DETC, which is accepted by the CHEA and the DOE as a valid accreditor, then how could CCU be a diploma mill? Agian, I am not saying CCU is a great or even good school, what I am saying is that CCU is not a diploma mill.

Walter June 4, 2008 at 11:39 p.m.

As I stated earlier, I think you should note that the name of the GAO report in question is "Federal Employees Have Obtained Degrees from Diploma Mills and Other Unaccredited Schools, Some at Government Expense". The report refers to California Coast University as an unaccredited school that charged a flat fee (and does not mention that the school was state-approved for decades). The GAO report lumped all schools (unaccredited and DM) together but never made a distinction who they were referring to at any given time. The report did question there flat fee approach which they quickly discontinued. Why did the GAO lump unaccredited approved schools with diploma mills? I would guess, more bang for the buck! And I believe nobodies saying CCU is a great school that can compete with B&M schools offering the same programs. Joe’s correct regarding his statement NA/RA doesn't bestow reputation. Thanks!

Joe June 5, 2008 at 12:46 a.m.

"received her Ph.D. from a California correspondence school that was described this week as an unaccredited "diploma mill" by congressional investigators, The Smoking Gun has learned."

www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0514041swa...

Walter June 5, 2008 at 1:30 a.m.

@Joe,

Thanks!

Under that (your referenced) GAO report please notice page (3), 2nd paragraph: Moreover, diploma mills and other unaccredited schools modify their billing practices so students can obtain payments for degrees by the federal government. This paragraph lists: Barrington, Lacrosse, and Pacific Western Universities.

Under pages (3 thru 4): 4th paragraph: Information we obtained from two unaccredited schools confirms that the federal government has paid for degrees at these schools. They referred to California Coast and Kennedy Western Universities providing records indicating they received payment from the government. Please notice the investigators went out their way to distinguish between the two!

Very enlightening and informative report!

Thanks again!

Walter

Joe June 5, 2008 at 5:25 a.m.

5/08/2008

CCU graduates could face prosecution for using "diploma mill" degrees if lawsuit doesn't pass.

www.keyetv.com/content/news/topnews/stor...

dave June 5, 2008 at 7:19 p.m.

Joe,the superintendent article states in the last paragraph CCU was not accredited AT THE TIME. The degrees given out by CCU prior to 2005 were not accredited. When CCU became accredited in 2005, they were no longer allowed to offer Phd's. So no phd given by CCU has ever been accredited. Both the youtube and superintendent article are talking about phd's, that regardless of when the story came out were never accredited. Thus they were not allowed to be used in Texas.

Joe, if, in CCU's case, I can not trust the state of CA, CHEA, DOE or the DETC then what is the point of this discussion? If they all have it wrong then who do I trust?

dave June 5, 2008 at 11:53 p.m.

Joe, you seem to be a little stuck on the Texas issue. Texas is the only state (I am aware of) that does not accept DETC as a legal accrediting body. This is most likely going to chang in the very near future. If it does, DETC accredited degrees will be legal in every state.

CCU has gone from a state sanctioned school to a nationally accredit school. Lets say for the sake of argument, 3-4 years from now they apply for and get RA status. Would you still call them a diploma mill? Lets say 5 years after this, they build a campus and a stadium (UoP) would you still call them a diploma mill?

At what point would CCU become an acceptable educational institution in your opinion?

Well, well, well June 6, 2008 at 2:24 a.m.

Dave,

Haven't you figured it out yet? We're here to put down online education! Most of us DL critics are closed minded when it comes to DL education. We never even attended a DL class, or telecom class for that matter. We’ll attend night school but never online education. We’re just here to beat up on you DL guys! It makes us feel better for not getting into that Ivy League or Patriot league University. It’s part of being human! Beat up on the other guy and make yourself feel better!

Don’t want your degree to say CCU? No problem, complete 90 credits through CCU and transfer to a HETA approved B&M or RA/B&M School! You’ll save about $20,000, and please keep your eye on the prize!

To Joe and the other linear thinkers... June 6, 2008 at 4:01 a.m.

All I can say is that you guys are the typical linear thinkers, unable to think outside the box. This is not about B&M schools versus DL education. This is about progressive thinkers versus traditionalists. Open your eyes, this is the 21st century. DL education is here to stay.

Joe, your microcosms does not reflect the mainstream. Read a little and you’ll learn how fast DL education is growing both in the non-profit and for-profit arena. And by the way, equating for-profit with lack of quality is absurd in a free market economy. Wake up and smell the distance learning (is all over the place). Your examples of how you would or would not hire prospective employees based on their DL education are narrow-minded at best. Your resume would probably get you and interview with me, but your poor attitude and arrogance would send you out of my office faster than I can say “get out.” So don’t blow your horn so much. The reality is that as more DL graduates enter the labor pool and get into HR, the taboo you so much detest will banish, and in a few years all these conversations will be moot.

Before signing off, I have to say that it’s unbelievable that you, a so called successful professional spend so much time bashing people in CCU’s, Ashford’s, CSU’s, and others’ forums. Com on, get a life!

TTT June 6, 2008 at 2:55 p.m.

JOE - There is nothing wrong with a DL modality.. if its done properly.

ME - I Agree!

JOE - I don't see any podcasts and a faculty listing, for all we know you could be graded by a secretary.

ME - Non-sense. Read the school’s catalog (available in their website), and you will see CCU’s qualified faculty and their biographies.

JOE - They have no physical campus

ME - Not a factor. With technology, a DL school doesn’t need a campus in the traditional way. CCU has adequate physical facilities for delivering distance education.

JOE - and seem more about selling their giftshop junk than providing an education.

ME - Every school I know, both traditional and non-traditional sell souvenirs.

JOE - All tests are open book and untimed so you really don't have to learn anything.

ME - Wrong. Open book tests are widely used in academic circles. In fact, open book exams tend to test more of the students’ understanding and critical thinking skills than rote memory does.

JOE - Many students never even take a proctored test if they have their Gen Eds out of the way.

ME- False! All final exams are proctored.

JOE - The unit study guide tests are all open book and unproctered. The tests you do get proctored can be done by anybody so we still don't know who actually took the test.

ME- Wrong again! The proctor must be approved by the school. Part of the process includes ID verification.

JOE - No my friend... CCU is nothing but another correspondence diploma mill.

ME - Wrong. Joe, repeating the same thing over and over again does not make true, my friend.

JOE - If you think it is just Texas media who are attacking CCU grads think again...

ME - Texas has already drafted the new legislation, which will allow DETC accredited diplomas to be used in the state.

JOE - seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002484649_pennington10m.html

ME - Old news. This is also related with the school unaccredited days.

Mike June 6, 2008 at 4:03 p.m.

Interesting debate; however it demonstrates the polarized opinions held by many regarding DL, RA vs. NA, state licensed, etc. As a university educator, I would not recommend enrolling in a DL institute to obtain an undergrad degree. However, sometimes personal situations (e.g. family responsibilities, jobs, etc) are in conflict with attending a traditional type university. A DL institution is a better fit for “older students” whom have real work experience and obligations that make attending classes difficult if not impossible. Moreover, I would encourage younger students (recent high school graduates) to attend a RA/traditional institution, in that the whole university/college experience is an education within itself. Just my two cents worth...

dave June 6, 2008 at 5:12 p.m.

Joe, I agree with most of what you have said. the only issue I have with you is that you have glossed over the fact that CCU went through the accrediting process, made changes in how they do business and are now accredited. All of the pre 2005 stuff does hurt their reputation and it will take them time to recover from it. My point is I think they have come along way and to keep going back pre accredited days is as TTT say's, old news.

Dear Joe June 7, 2008 at 12:28 a.m.

Get you facts straight! There IS legislation in progress to put an end to the good ol state of Texas' discrimination practices. Just because you can't find it on the Internet doesn't mean there's not something in the works. I cannot disclose anything at the present time. You'll just have to wait and see, but I'll tell you Texas is not in a good position with their state of affairs, hence the reason why things will change real soon.

Who cares if Dr. Gambrell used "jr" instead of "III." What's your point? And in regards to proctoring this is standard practice with RA and NA schools.

Get off your high horse and try to provide something relevant and useful. You’re an amateur Internet Google searcher that can’t even get your facts straight! You really need to get a life.

Walter June 7, 2008 at 1:02 p.m.

What are you getting at with your open book comments? Tier 1 Wellesley College also gives open book examinations, and they’re definitely not a DM! It would be more sensible to attack their entrance requirements. Although, other schools RA and NA also have open entrance requirements and do very well in the ranking systems.

TO JOE June 7, 2008 at 2:28 p.m.

More on open book exams:

www.cdtl.nus.edu.sg/handbook/assess/feed...

Hey Joe, are you there? June 7, 2008 at 2:41 p.m.

And speaking of Standford, they also have open book exams. This particular one is not only open book, but also a take home exam:

www-philosophy.stanford.edu/fss/papers/phil-60-syllabus.pdf

Hey Joe, you are really pathetic... June 7, 2008 at 4:43 p.m.

Oh how pathetic,

It took me 10 seconds to find Dr. C B Gambrell, Jr. And yes, he is indeed a Jr.

www.gspe.org/awards.htm

From CCU website:

Dr. Carroll B. Gambrell, Jr.
Professor of Engineering
B.A. Florida Southern College
B.S.E. Clemson University
M.S.E. University of Florida
Ph.D. Purdue University

Dr. Gambrell currently serves as Vice President for Research at Mercer College, Macon Georgia. Dr. Gambrell previously served as the Founding Dean in the School of Engineering since the establishment of the School in 1985. As founding dean, he organized the School, formulated the academic programs, engaged in fund raising, designed laboratories, employed faculty, designed two buildings, selected textbooks and equipment, and recruited students. He has also served with distinction on the faculty of institutions across the country, including Purdue University, Stanford University, Arizona State University, Clemson University, West Coast University, and the
University of Central Florida. Dr. Gambrell has been a curriculum consultant to the U.S. Air Force Academy and Northern Illinois University, to name just a few. His educational expertise has been utilized many times as Team
Chairman on accreditation visits to many large universities throughout the United States. He has been an active participant on the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology since 1965 and is currently serving as Chairman of the Related Accreditation
Commission of ABET. A well-published author of engineering articles, Dr. Gambrell has also been an active member of the communities in which he has lived.

Joe, you are totally pathetic. Go back to the drawing board. If it wasn’t so pathetic it would be funny!

Joe June 7, 2008 at 5:12 p.m.

Some professors allow open notes in testing... very few and the time is so short it doesn't really help. When you have unlimited time makes all the difference in the world so please get off your high horse.

I think his PhD school would know what his REAL name is. Has anyone here actually had Dr. Gambrell at CCU? Why would you need a professor of engineering when you don't offer any engineering classes? Use your head people!

Joe June 7, 2008 at 6:36 p.m.

Take home final exams... I never had one of those at The Citadel and I only had a few open note tests, all of which were timed.

Dr. Gambrell is listed as professor of engineering in the CCU catalog when CCU doesn't offer any engineering classes. Please think before YOU speak.

Joe June 7, 2008 at 8:31 p.m.

Untimed open book exams are not an adaquete test of knowledge. That is the point. I don't care what university offers it... I don't accept it as well as most other employers. Traditional schools that allow open notes will not include the book and they are always timed. Time is so short if you don't know the material you will fail, notes or not. It also forces you to take notes which will increase your chances of knowledge retention. If you use the book untimed you can ace a book taylored test any time.

CCU does not offer an engineering degree and they didn't offer one last year when Dr. Gambrell was listed on the faculty. If he isn't teaching at CCU then he doesn't belong on the faculty list. That is fraud.

Joe June 7, 2008 at 10:27 p.m.

My problem is with shoddy educations... I don't have a problem with a good DL program as long as the students are properly tested. Untimed open book unit tests and finals are not acceptable. There are plenty of online programs that don't do that.

I never argued CSU as being a shoddy education. I actually thought about getting a DBA there in March if you had bothered to read the blog.

CSU is far superior to CCU. At CSU you have to get a REAL trustworthy proctor and you have TIMED exams. They provide a faculty list that has actual TEACHING faculty that isn't doctored up to make them look better than they are. If they added podcasts and stopped open enrollment I probably would have gone. They also were never called a diploma mill by the GAO and were never on anyone's diploma mill list. So Walter, as you see I am not here on a crusade to bash online schools... only crappy online schools.

Texas is not drafting legislation partner. It is in the court system which is the judiciary. They do not draft legislation in the judiciary. They pulled CCU off the list because a judge passed an injunction to do so until the case is ruled upon. If it fails it goes back on the list. If it passes it stays as is... Civics 101.

Joe June 7, 2008 at 11:30 p.m.

As far as the court case goes, we shall see. It certainly isn't over yet.

I didn't see any links that you posted for those schools. I did find a quote from one of your links that illustrates the Open Book exam and its place in traditional universities.

"Although in principle they can refer to their book and notes, in reality they rarely have that sort of luxury (in terms of time allowed). As a result, they face a question that demands a very high level of analytical thought but one which they can get very little help from the materials brought in. It adds up the frustrations and stress for the students."

—Faculty of Science

When time is not allowed open book/notes only helps you marginaly. Given all the time in the world it is like the calculator for basic math reference someone mentioned earlier. You don't learn a thing if you can just reference it out of the book or plug a formula you didn't bother to learn.

How can you possibly know what I have checked out or not? I called them at this number to find out about their engineering department and all they did was send me to an admissions advisor.

www.allengineeringschools.com/find/show....

I kept asking the question about it and they said they had no engineering program but tried to enroll me in something else. When they asked for my credit card number I hung up. So don't spout your mouth off before you know what I have done with this diploma mill. Thanks!

Joe June 8, 2008 at 1:03 a.m.

I can't share anything they write... look at this website's disclaimer.

I couldn't care less about a few hack professors who allow it... that is not acceptable and is not the way real university courses conduct evaluation of knowledge. That is how you get by in a crip course.

Joe June 8, 2008 at 4:46 a.m.

There are crip course professors at most traditional colleges but they are by far not the standard. I had a couple in my day but not with open book. The lower down the tiers the more of them you get until you hit the bottom feeders at open book U where every evaluaton is untimed open book diploma milled degrees. That is why schools have reputations for either being easy or hard.

Joe June 9, 2008 at 5:04 a.m.

CCU offers no higher order thinking courses that would be a challenge for someone holding a test based on the study guide and looking at it while you take it untimed. It is like taking a test based on Cliff notes while copying off the Cliff notes! The website says the tests are based off the study guides. I have read the reviews that said they are straight from the study guides. That is the kind of stuff you do in HS summer-school.

They don't just take your CC#... they do that and far worse.

forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?p=276726

Joe June 9, 2008 at 9:10 p.m.

I believe every word you say dave. That is exactly how I picture it. I don't doubt the material is good stuff and at the proper collegiate level. The tests are straight out of the book though. Considering this isn't organic chemistry or some advanced course offering these tests will be a piece of cake given unlimited time. They are tests tailored straight from the book... there is no lecture component that is always the hardest part of a regular test. You didn't have to take notes and don't have to be tested on it. It is like cutting the crust off a double cheese crust pizza... it is the best part. You can have the best faculty in the world and it doesn't make one bit of difference... they are just grading another form test.

I don't see how it forces you to learn the information. On the contrary it lets you get away with the opposite. Just turn to the proper page and copy down the answer. If CCU offered hard courses like organic chem, thermodynamics, or solid-state devices I might not have a big problem with a TIMED open book test because you wouldn't have time to look at it unless you studied it like you should have. At CCU you don't have to study to pass these tests.

To Peter25 June 10, 2008 at 2:43 a.m.

Come on Pete. Don't lie to the man. Have you forgotten your study guides already? Everything on the test is easily laid out in each one. If you can't understand your study guides you don't deserve to be a High School graduate much less a college one. Everything is so laid out for you there isn't really much you have to do except circle the answer, fill in the blank, or write a near verbatim essay. As a test taylored to a "working adult" I was almost insulted at how easy they let you get away without learning anything. I took the time to do it but who knows how many get by without learning the material.

I did the work June 11, 2008 at 9:49 a.m.

Of course I learned it. That doesn't mean other people know I did. I hate having to prove competency when it should be a given. CCU's lazy testing standards has had my degree called to attention more than once by potential employers. People still think it is a degree mill even after it gained accreditation. Does that mean my degree is inferior to accredited degrees now? These people don't even care!

Becka June 11, 2008 at 4:48 p.m.

I am going for a Master's in Psych-will my credits from CCU transfer to an Arizona University should I decide to get a doctorate? ASU, NAU, U of A?

Mike June 11, 2008 at 7:05 p.m.

Does anyone know when CCU plans on submitting its DBA program to DETC for approval?

aviatorpepe June 11, 2008 at 9:35 p.m.

Here is the link to the University of Arizona:

www.eller.arizona.edu/academic/doctoral/...

Pepe

Joe June 12, 2008 at 12:26 a.m.

If CCU graduate credits transfer to UA please let us know.

USN O-6 (ret) June 12, 2008 at 5:55 a.m.

Congratulations on getting into APU. It is a good school to further a military or government career. Unfortunately it doesn't carry alot of weight in the private sector but its good for what it is.

Joe June 19, 2008 at 12:38 a.m.

To Becka... NO, your credits will not transfer to Arizona. Arizona does not recognize DETC degrees that lack regional accreditation.

grad.arizona.edu/prospective-students/admissions-requirements/recognized-degrees

mdo June 19, 2008 at 8:28 p.m.

CCU has great student support, great customer service, and represented a great value. My degree is accredited and my credits were easy to transfer. But most importantly, I learned a lot! This degree has made me a more effective professional.

credit transfer June 23, 2008 at 10:59 p.m.

The following thread form degreeinfo.com illustrates some of the changes taking place in refence with accreditation and academic credit tranferability:

Transfer Credit - Times are Changing

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Before sharing my thoughts, in the interest of full disclosure, for those who don't know, I am president of a DETC accredited institution as well as a commissioner of the DETC.

The transfer credit issue is one I have dealt with and followed for 20 years. I helped to start an online university offering Master's degrees in 1988. NA schools, DETC in particular, and transferability of credit have long been a topic on this and other forums so I thought participants might be interested to know what I have learned based on a limited survey, but relevant nonetheless.

It appears that some of the well-known distance universities that have been cited often on the forums as dismissing credits from students that were earned at DETC accredited institutions have changed their policies. DETC graduates and students are able to have their credits and degrees accepted at RA institutions in increasing numbers.

This appears to be part of a national trend where DETC accreditation is gaining more and more acceptance at more regionally accredited institutions.

To illustrate the point, I know that the following RA institutions have advised DETC that credits from DETC institutions will be considered and can and have been accepted as appropriate to particular degree programs: Excelsior College, The Union Institute, Charter Oak College (via portfolio assessment), three of the schools previously reported as refusing to accept credits earned at DETC schools.

Additionally, the Middle States Association Commission on Higher Education has informed all of their institutions that that cannot reject any nationally accredited credit in transfer strictly because it is coming from a non-regionally accredited institution.

This isn't to say the issue doesn't still exist, just that things are not as bleak as sometimes portrayed. I think DETC and its member schools have done a good job working on this issue and applaud their (and my school's) success. DETC continues to work with start-up institutions to improve them and bring them along over a period of years so that there will be affordable learning opportunities to more learners.

Best,
Mary A"

Anonymous June 24, 2008 at 8:43 p.m.

If you're using the basis of the "majority" of traditional schools off of just being denied from FSU and AU this is too narrow of a data bandwidth. Two schools are not the "majority" out of 3000+ accredited universities.

Read what Mary wrote and you'll see this issue is slowly dying.

Walter June 25, 2008 at 11:26 p.m.

Most schools are now unwilling to say whether or not they'll accept your credits until you apply. This is a noticeable change from pervious "NO WAY" responses received by DETC grads in the past. Times are indeed changing. Furthermore, these are schools not listed on the HETA list but the SOC list. Some aren't on either list, but willing to at least review your transcripts. (NCSU for one!) I’m assuming many colleges and universities are evaluating and revisiting their pervious stance.

And Joe, you're right! It's a slow process! Thanks!

Joe June 26, 2008 at 4:58 a.m.

There are a few decent schools in there but many are second or third tier REGIONAL schools which don't carry alot of weight. Third tier national schools are pretty decent and 1st tier regional schools are good too. If you compare those few good ones to ALL the other decent schools you are talking less than 1% of all of them. That is a far cry from being generally accepted by the better schools. You don't see a single flagship university on there accept Montana and Wyomin,g but that's because they can't get enough students to enroll locally. Nobody lives there.

Joe June 26, 2008 at 6:48 a.m.

I am often forced to hire people based on the reputation of their respective schools because their experience is similar. Of course I am going to hire someone who went MIT over someone who went to The Citadel and will hire a Citadel grad over someone who went to Grantham with everything being equal. School reputation is a major factor in all hiring. It is not THE deal setter, but it can be a deal maker. Those coming from the better schools generally have the better experience to boot. It just goes hand in hand. Your CV is the major part of how successful you will be and your schooling is a large chunk of it. I agree that it is elitist and pretentious but it is the way of the world. I wish I could hire everyone coming off the street to give them a shot but this is a competetive world we live in with very limited positions these days. I hope the economy picks up so I can be less selective but engineers are having a hard go of it.

Jack A June 26, 2008 at 12:26 p.m.

So you have a dozen plus decent schools that take DETC credits. So what? That doesn't help the 99% of DETC students that don't have access to those universities. All the rest of them have to go online and go to crappy for-profits. It isn't fair. Why are all the better schools being so pigheaded?!? I want to get a respected graduate degree to get rid of any doubt and I can't. This sucks! The world needs to come around and realize that online is the wave of the future.

Joe June 27, 2008 at 5:05 a.m.

The world of engineering and that of law enforcement are two different realms. Civil service has far different criteria than commercial enterprise. While civil agencies allow many beaurucratic inneficiencies and social promotion, the commercial realm cuts them loose. We hire based on the credentials, not quotas. While I appreciate the job of federal and local governments, the way they conduct hiring and promotion is not to the standard of industry. Law enforcement protects the incompetent and wreckless in thier ranks. The Blue Code of Silence is far too unsettling for my taste. My hiring practices are standard and financially proven. We did not become a leading developer of high-tech weapon systems by hiring average people... we hired the best.

The only time I ever cared what ranking my alma matter carried was when I was deciding what school to attend. It had a top school of engineering so I knew I would get a good and well respected degree from the academy. Everyone should care when they go to pick a university what the general consensus of it is. After they get the job it becomes just another annal in history.

Of course there are more than a dozen plus schools you can transfer to. But there aren't hundreds of highly regarded schools that will take them. I don't see why you have such a hard time grasping the fact that, in the world of industry, there is a pecking order. It seems like you live in a utopian world where all degrees are created equal. You need to wake up to the fact that the world is imperfect and that discriminiation still exists. It has shifted from race, religioun, and gender to something more discrete... education. That is all that's legally left.

Respect is earned, but when the quantity is unknown credentials will have to suffice.

Walter June 27, 2008 at 6:19 p.m.

@Joe,

Point taken, but why attack Law Enforcement or assume the blue wall protects officers in general. Your statement is generalizing to say the least. Last time I checked, GAO, OIG, FBI, the Attorney General’s Office and State & local oversight committees weren’t knocking down engineering companies’ doors unless they were embezzling money or committing some other white-collar crime. And I didn’t even name the media and other watchdog groups watching law enforcement’s every move. And contrary to beliefs, scientists/engineers do work for the government (forensic scientists, environmental protection agency, DOD, FBI and CIA etc.) and have very reputable credentials. On the enforcement side, most officers have between five to ten years experience on top of their degree. I’ve also set on hiring boards and can vouch for what Jamie’s saying that we’re not hiring just anyone. We’re looking at the overall person, their accomplishments, credentials and aspirations. Furthermore, if the hiring official wants someone that he or she deems deserving, it’s that official’s responsibility to creditably articulate their position to their superiors. It’s part of being a manger to be able to convince your superiors that your judgment is tangible. If the person meets your HR departments hiring policies, and you want them because of their acquired skill sets, it’s your job to persuade your superiors. You have to use some of that capital you’ve built up! If you’re unsure, why should they (management) be willing to accept your decision’s accurate? If you’re hiring the best, what’s the debate about? If you’re not, that’s more of an organizational or cultural issue within your company.

Let’s look at the engineering dilemma:

55% of Ph.D. students in engineering in the United States are foreign born (2004).

Between 1980 and 2000, the percentage of Ph.D. scientists and engineers employed in the United States who were born abroad has increased from 24% to 37%.

Other countries produce far more engineers than the United States.

U.S. granted about 61,000 bachelor’s degrees in engineering in 1999

Japan granted about 103,000 bachelor’s degrees during that year.

EU granted more than 134,000 bachelor’s degrees during that year.

China granted more than 195,000 bachelor’s degrees during that year.

In 2002, the United States accounted for only 7 percent of the 868,000 bachelor’s degrees in engineering granted worldwide.

And this is old data! So it’s more to do with supply and demand!

Walter June 27, 2008 at 10:35 p.m.

Jamie's right! I didn’t mention numerous universities on the HETA list that’s very reputable schools!

For example: Elon University Division I: Ranking: (Universities–Master's (South), 2))

Thanks!

Walter June 28, 2008 at 11:51 a.m.

And that's why I mentioned Elon University:

Elon University, Online. Earn a University Bachelors Degree online. ... Elon University. Earn your College Degree 100% Online Full Financial aid available. .

They also have a Doctor Degree online!

My employer has very competitive hiring standards and one of the toughest academic programs around.

Walter June 29, 2008 at 3:41 p.m.

Elon University offers a Doctor degree in physical therapy (100%) online!

Arcadia University offers a Master of Education in Instructional Technology: (100% online) Known for their educational degrees

Ranking–Master's (North), 25)

Missouri State University offers BS, MBA and MS in IT degrees online

Ranking-Master's (Midwest), 52)

Seton Hill University creates new online program in Genocide and Holocaust Studies

blogs.setonhill.edu/ncche/021719.php

Ranking: Colleges (North), 12

Marywood University: Offers Distance education through various DL formats!

Distance Education & e-Learning Office

Ranking–Master's (North), 57

Walter June 29, 2008 at 9:44 p.m.

From Elon's website: Earn your Doctorate of Physical Therapy online from Elon University!

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Fifth cohort planned —

Cohort 5 of the t-DPT program is scheduled to begin Thursday, January 5, 2006. Reserve your place now! The deadline for applications is Friday, Nov. 18, 2005. Click the "Apply now!" link at left.

Subsequent cohorts may not be offered, so please alert any MPT alumni who may be unaware of the program about this opportunity.

If you would like more information from a t-DPT program graduate, please e-mail Dr. Jane Freund (jfreund@elon.edu) or Dr. Rogers (rogers@elon.edu ) or call (336) 278-6400.

Walter June 29, 2008 at 10:01 p.m.

The others you can participate in! What about them?

Jack A June 30, 2008 at 10:18 a.m.

Elon does not offer the DPT online.

"Concepts are reinforced with hands-on applications."

www.elon.edu/e-web/academics/graduate/ph...

Elon does not offer any degree programs 100% online.

Walter June 30, 2008 at 10:15 p.m.

Elon site:

The page contains information that may be helpful to you in determining whether Elon's online t-dpt program is for you. Read from the top down, or choose from among the following topics:
Are you suited to online learning?
Profile of a successful online student
Tips for success
Technology skills required
Computer hardware and software requirements

Are you suited to online learning?
Typically, learning in an online enviroment entails at least as much work, if not more, than a face-to-face course that meets in a classroom. Students who do well in Web-based or other kinds of distance education courses tend to share some of the same personality characteristics. Specific computer-related skills and access to the necessary equipment are also important.

For the web-based course in Modules II—VI (Online)

Module I and VII. (Classroom)

Walter July 1, 2008 at 11:23 p.m.

@ JackA,

First, you don't understand! If you don't have a BPT (Bachelors in PT) or MPT (Masters in PT) from Elon, you don't qualify for their program anyway! Yes, it's not for you, but others may have graduated from Elon and need the information.

Second, these other universities (all nationally ranked) are very good goods also! Arcadia offers a Master in Education (One of the top education colleges in the country), Missouri State University (also offers an online AACSB International—The Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business – degree programs.) is ranked 52. Marywood University offers various degree programs online (business programs are accredited by the Association of Collegiate Business Schools and Programs) (ACBSP) and their ranked 57.

So, as I stated before, what about these universities?

Arcadia University offers a Master of Education in Instructional Technology: (100% online) Known for their educational degrees

Ranking–Master's (North), 25)

Missouri State University offers BS, MBA and MS in IT degrees online

Ranking-Master's (Midwest), 52)

Marywood University: Offers Distance education through various DL formats!

Distance Education & e-Learning Office

Ranking–Master's (North), 57

The University of Wyoming College of Business:

Distance learning M.B.A. program is rated among the nation's best buys by a respected national Web-based clearinghouse dedicated exclusively to showcasing accredited online degrees.

Accreditation: AACSB (Association for the Advancement of Collegiate Schools of Business).

If these universities aren't good enough for you, maybe online education isn't what you're looking for in general! You may what to look into attending a B&M classroom setting for your graduate degree. Thanks!

Walter July 2, 2008 at 3:22 a.m.

meant good schools! Sorry

Joe July 2, 2008 at 7:15 p.m.

I can understand your frustration. It is elitist for them not to take your NA degree. There really is little difference between NA and RA. As far as I'm concerned they're equal. As you have found out, a degree from CCU is a ticket to nowhere and I applaud you for trying to get a better degree. You might not get anything out of Arcadia, Marywood, or Missouri State but a degree is better than no degree. I think Ashford takes 99 credits of transfer and Life Experience towards any of their bachelor degrees and they are RA. If you are willing to do your senior year over again you could get an RA degree there. Just be warned that it is a bigger diploma mill than CCU.

Joe July 2, 2008 at 11:52 p.m.

So you could get an RA degree to be considered for graduate application... OK?

Walter July 3, 2008 at 2:13 a.m.

Thanks to Joe and @Jack A!

I've wrote the University of Maryland University College (which is not a HETA member) which also has the regional accreditation statement. They stated although it states the need for regional accreditation, credits need to be reviewed before any judgments are rendered. Did Jack call or write the University of Wyoming and get their response? Some of the schools listed on the HETA list have the regional accreditation required statement, but have stated they'll review and/or accept NA credits when contacted via email or phone! The University of Wyoming is a HETA member and has agreed to review NA credits objectively. Thanks!

Walter

All the schools I've listed are very reputable!

Walter July 4, 2008 at 12:20 a.m.

Sorry I couldn't help Jack A! I tried! Hope things work out for you!

Walter July 4, 2008 at 8:33 p.m.

Jack A,

Maybe you could try Missouri State University (also offers an online AACSB International—The Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business – degree programs.) is ranked 52.

The International Herald Tribune cited the Master of Business Administration degree, offered by the College of Business Administration (COBA) at Missouri State University, is structured to provide students with educational value. Meeting rigorous AACSB requirements, the degree program meets business accreditation standards and MBA students will be taught by terminally-degreed faculty, a majority of whom are actively publishing in their disciplines. Students can enjoy the benefits of a high-quality program while paying tuition rates that are very attractive when compared to similar schools.

They offer an online MBA program and I confirmed (wrote with response) they do accept regionally and nationally accredited degrees/transfer credits! Of course, they must evaluate your credentials to be for sure. Thanks!

Hope this helps!

Tam July 14, 2008 at 9:43 p.m.

Good Gawd!
Are you guys still name-droppin' legit schools, blathering accreditation acronyms and spouting rankings to get CCU respect?

CCU is a lame correspondence school! Get over yourselves!

Carolina Girl July 23, 2008 at 6:23 p.m.

To Joe and other anti-Distance folks:

Some of the resistance in the United States is that we're latecomers to distance education. In Great Britain for example, Open University and University of London have been offering distance degrees for many years (using whatever technologies of the times such as CCTV, correspondence, online); distance education has been around for a long time in Australia. The issue here is a mix of tradition, marketability, and potential for furthering one's career goals. CCU questions stem from uncertainty about measuring education standards and outcomes.

Yes, DETC is a viable accreditation agency. The "regionals" were first, so there's lots of tradition. Brick-and-mortar universities also worry about competition from distance programs, especially for graduate schools and working students. That does not make CCU a scam.

CCU is not designed for the traditional 18-year-old high-school graduate. True, self-paced open-book exams are not timed. However, any serious student would complete such an exam within hours. To do well, you need to already have a working knowledge in your chosen discipline.

At the University of South Carolina (my first graduate degree), some of the exams were open-book; some take-home. Textbooks, notes, and calculator were allowed (so your Statistics exam time could focus on multiple regression, not on manually calculating the square root). I don't see how one could coast through an open-book exam without understanding the subject matter.

People looking to hire increasingly look at "the whole person" and not just where the degree came from. What have job-seekers done with their lives? Are they ethical? If handed obstacles, were they creative in seeking to overcome them? Do they have the perseverance to follow through to goal completion? What kind of work ethic do they have? What kind of initiative? If they're very talented, can they work with other people, or are they forever bragging about their uniquely great and glorious talents? Do they perform quality work on time, within budget, reliably, without having to be prodded at every turn? Are they intellectually curious and willing to learn continuously, or do they just want to "coast and get by"? Can they be flexible to adapt as evolving technologies totally change how work gets done? What kind of initiative does their résumé / life path show? Have they gone an easy, pre-scripted route, or have they sought out knowledge and new skills that may look non-traditional but show consistent desire for self-improvement? The degree source certainly won’t answer all this.

Decide on your interests and skills, life passions, community service priorities, certification requirements in your field, your schedule, then choose your degree program based on those factors.

Joe: yes, the Citadel does have an excellent engineering program. For you it was the right choice based on your career goals. For someone else, the needs and goals may be different.

It's official July 27, 2008 at 5:48 a.m.

It is official now! DETC is recognized by Texas as an accrediting agency.

More of the same July 27, 2008 at 10:29 a.m.

More recognized degree mills... yeah!

To Joe July 27, 2008 at 6:25 p.m.

Joe said:

Joe June 7, 2008 at 11:30 p.m.

"As far as the court case goes, we shall see. It certainly isn't over yet."

Joe, it's over. I know it must hurt, but get over it; you were wrong!

Joe July 28, 2008 at 10:13 a.m.

@Walter... hurt? What must hurt? I always advocated the useless advocacy of NA and RA accrediation. How was I wrong? I said it was still pending two months ago and so it was. It looks like I was right! You must have me confused with some other detractor. I know it must be hard for you to get your facts straight as you go from blog to blog stalking me. Really Walter, get a life.

Walter July 29, 2008 at 1:33 a.m.

Sorry Joe! It wasn't me that posted that comment! Notice, I've never used terms like hurt! Furthermore, I haven't been on this site in awhile and my last post was July 4, 2008 (@Jack)! And I'm not going site to site looking for anyone! Why, because it's not that serious!

Thanks!

Walter July 30, 2008 at 12:48 a.m.

Tam, Joe or whoever the heck you are! Like I said, my last post was July 4, 2008, and all my posts have indicated my name "Walter"! So, bait someone else Tam, Joe or whoever you, he, she wishes to be today! Thanks!

PS: Like I said, it's not that serious!

Joe August 7, 2008 at 3:24 a.m.

Take a chill pill Walter. There is no reason to double post or talk to yourself. We all know it is you going across the boards stalking us.

F- September 19, 2008 at 1:49 a.m.

With the exception of 1, every person I've come into contact with at CalCoast has been rude. No one can answer simple questions about the programs either.

BB September 29, 2008 at 2:37 a.m.

I want to say right off that I am a current CCU student. I am finishing by Bachelors in Psychology and my previous degree was an AA in Criminal Justice at Taft College. You haters out there that have nothing better to do then put down another form of education have got to be the saddest bunch that I have ever read. The course work at CCU is every bit as stringent as any RA course that I ever took. Also, anyone who attends online classes is a hell of a lot more disciplined and intelligent then those who went the traditional route that was thrust on them by their trust fund mommy and daddy's. My degree is being paid for by a Fortune 200 company and I promise you, I have run into plenty of traditional degree graduates and they are no better then I am. So all of you loud mouthed "web rangers" that talk big with you fingers, piss off!

Horace October 1, 2008 at 7:40 p.m.

Doesn't all education begin and end with what it is YOU need and want to give in return? Does this philosophical question have anything to do with where you attended college? Remember, judgement of others is often indicative of vanity or fear.

Perhaps a mix of both RA & DETC schools is an excellent way to save money and be grounded in the reality that college (and accreditation) is also BIG BUSINESS! Everyone should consider specific goals and objectives prior to choosing a school - this the best advice I can give. Of course, anything is possible if a person posesses the right skills and willingness to succeed and our joint goal in life should be to support one another along that road.

H

Robert December 12, 2008 at 12:18 p.m.

California Coast University is the Best Way a Working Adult with FAMILY COMMITMENTS can attend and earn a college degree!!!

Bill January 28, 2009 at 5:46 a.m.

I recently graduated with a BS in Psychology from Cal Coast and it does have its pros and cons. On the positive side, the school is very affordable, efficient and responsive to student requests. However, the lack of regional accreditation is a big deal. Most states will not even acknowledge a Psychology degree for professional licensing unless it is from a regional school (online or brick and mortar). I knew this ahead of time, and only plan on using my psych degree from there as a resume builder in the business world. If you want to practice as a counselor or in some other professional capacity, really and truly you need the respectability and acceptance of a "regionally accredited" based degree instead. It sucks, but it is true. There are state laws that confirm this by explicitly mentioning "regional accreditation" in their wording. Back to talking about Cal Coast, it was a great experience for me personally. I am a working dad of 4 kids who does not have the time or finances to go to college the traditional route, so CCU was a good fit for me. I was a little discouraged that the course work was not more difficult at times. A few of the courses were challenging, but a majority of them could have been taken and passed by the average 9th grader. There is nothing really on-line about CCU, except for the fact that you can take unit exams on-line. It is heavily correspondence based where you purchase a text book and receive a study guide with exams and essay questions from the school. You study at your own pace and submit your work at your own pace. You choose a proctor to whom the final exam will be e-mailed to at the end of each course. This is something I believe the DETC national accrediting agency makes them do. I don't think it would matter to them either way. You can zoom through the work rather quickly if you wish, but the school requires that you be a student with them at least 9 months before they will award your degree. Proceeding very quickly through course work will also look strange on your final transcripts, so it is not suggested. From my personal investigations, it appears as if graduate students who have earned a Masters from CCU have come out a whole lot better than those who graduate with just a BS. I do, however, have a theory on that one. I believe their Masters students possess a BS from a regional university, so the Masters isn't really getting them the job or promotion, but it does offer "icing on the cake" and puffs up their resume when job hunting. There have been some testimonials from these graduate students stating that they received job offers and lucrative raises almost immediately after completing their Masters at CCU. But I think some states are more lenient and accepting of national accreditation than others. It is a gamble and depends very much on where and how you will be attempting to use your degree.

Grad February 18, 2009 at 3:25 a.m.

I graduated with a B.Sc Psychology from California Coast University and have already been accepted to 5 Regionally Accredited Universities to pursue my Masters.

Walter February 22, 2009 at 1:12 a.m.

Correction:
University of Washington (tier 1 public ivy: confirmed by phone call) and San Fran also accepts nationally accredited universities!

Thanks!

Walter March 1, 2009 at 1:44 a.m.

Correction on Northcentral:

I called during my reseach into the subject, and verified they also accept nationally accredited schools (including DETC)!

Thanks!

J March 3, 2009 at 5:19 a.m.

Listen here, lets not kid ourselves CCU is a joke! You can finish a class in a week and still get an "A." Walter, you obviously work for the school or you would not feel the need to defend it so much. This school is so easy that if you push yourself you can finish around nine or ten classes in two approximately months. I don't care if anyone knows the truth about this school becasue they will figure it out when they start their classes. So, if you want a degree that cheap and effortless, this is the school for you!

@ J: March 7, 2009 at 7:39 a.m.

So by your own logic, you must work for CCU's competitors or else you would not feel so invested in this thread.

Alternate theory: J has self esteem problems and needs to bash schools based on opinions instead of facts in order to compensate for deep feelings of personal inadequacy.

Drk March 10, 2009 at 1:56 a.m.

Excuse some of the typos in my quick response above but hopefully you doubters get the point: The summary of your education and professional experience will define how far you go in the workforce, not specifically attending one particular DETC accredited school. By all means make certaing any school you attend in/on the track to receive national or regional accreditation and recognized by the US Education Secretary and CHEA.
~DrK

JoJo April 5, 2009 at 1:15 a.m.

Dear S,

I live on the East Coast and I have had problems with my CCU degree and credits transferring in any capacity to the regional schools here. I graduated with a BS in Psych and wanted to get another BS degree in another major at a brick and mortar school. The regional colleges all have a policy here that forbids any credits that are not earned at a regionally accredited school from transferring. I think it's a money thing, and they just want you to retake classes with them so you will spend more money, but I may be wrong. The nationally accredited schools have not yet found a place of respect and acceptance where I live. Hopefully, this won't be the case for you. Good luck!

SecMan April 14, 2009 at 3:28 a.m.

Hi, Kev-

I am not from Mass, but as I understand it you do not need any type of college degree to become a Mass State Police Officer. You simply have to have a High School diploma, no criminal record and be no older than 35 to meet the minimum qualifications to be considered for the job and entrance into their police academy. US citizenship is also required.

SecMan April 17, 2009 at 6:32 a.m.

Ahhh, I see what you mean. Well, in my personal opinion you face some hurdles with a nationally accredited degree from a DETC approved school. I am in the private security industry and deal with a lot of police agencies nationwide. Most police departments I've worked with have grown wise to the ease with which a NA degree can be obtained through the mail, internet or otherwise. So, they are now specifically requiring "regionally accredited" degrees or degrees earned locally from a brick and mortar school (regional as well). There is an affordable alternative that is regionally accredited and should help you meet your goals. It is through the American Public University. They are totally on line and books are included free of charge for undergraduate students. Course are about $700 a class, and you can take classes in either 8 week or 16 week sessions (depending on how quick you want to earn the degree). Just google the school name and you will find their website. To do what you want to do, I would highly suggest you stay away from the NA schools all together, as it is a big gamble whether or not it will be considered by any employer.

@SecMan April 19, 2009 at 7:15 a.m.

Can you provide links to departments that require a "regionally" accredited degree?

Kev April 20, 2009 at 11:41 p.m.

SecMan,
Yep, I saw the link! I have been trying to contact the Ma State Police cert unit to determine what degree that they have already ran across and accepted, but the women who handles the SSPO cert. is never there. Just the fact that they state "If it is not a MA accredited college, we will have to review the whole curriculum," make me nervous that they would say….nope, it doesn't meet our standards. I might be a little over the edge thinking that they won't accept it, but just don't want to spend the money and find out later.
It does seem like a good school, just wish I had more info from my end to work with.

Kev April 21, 2009 at 8:01 p.m.

SecMan,
Thanks for all the info! I will keep plugging away and see what happens.

Myron May 15, 2009 at 7:33 p.m.

CCU students and alumni group

A meeting point for CCU students and alumni at Facebook. Request join

Myron May 29, 2009 at 3:55 a.m.

Samuel, try now by copying and paste CCU students and alumni group

Jesse June 8, 2009 at 2:39 p.m.

I can't understand how it's 2009 and people can't grasp the reality of being able to get a degree online.

HUNDREDS of Brick and Mortar schools offer COMPLETELY ONLINE degrees. When these degrees are presented ONSTAGE at actual graduations, there is NO mention that the degree was earned through distance learning. These people graduate among the same students who took all of their classes in the actual classroom. When distnce learning students apply for jobs, nobody questions their degree.

Why then, would anyone question a degree from a 100% online school in a program that consisted of the EXACT same curriculum as a B&M school?

Did you guys know that you can pay taxes online, order pizza online, bank online? What an amazing world we live in! Why shouldn't you be able to go to college online?

Hank June 24, 2009 at 5:03 p.m.

Let's face it all, education at this level is a business. Nothing more nothing less. Most schools will only take a few credits in transfer even among the B&M's/regional accredited. Why? MONEY. So, when Hal talks about not being able to transfer credits from NA to RA, who cares, even if you were going RA to RA you might get 9-12 credits to transfer but that's about it.

The RA's do not take credits from NA as a rule because the RA's know they can use it as an reason to make you take more credits with them, thus making more Money off of you.

Billie September 20, 2009 at 6:05 a.m.

Angela,

Ft Hays State University offers an AA in General Studies and it is only $500 a class and fully online. They are regionally accredited and I am currently a student there. Beware of nationally accredited schools. The state I live in does not even acknowledge a college degree unless it comes from a regionally accredited school. National accreditation is okay if you are active military and plan on using the degree for military promotion, but otherwise it seldom has value in the civilian world. Good luck!

Max October 26, 2009 at 1:27 p.m.

I am sad to see the negative comments about CCU above and I don’t want to get caught up in that bantering. Let me just say that if you are interested in CCU and check it out and it does not meet your needs or expectations, find another school!

For me personally, I graduated from CCU with an M.S. in psychology in 1987. It met my needs because at that time I needed a self-paced, independent study program. This was back when the M.S. Psych program was 57 units and required a thesis. I found the program to be very challenging and I got a lot out of it. Since it is an independent study program, you need to be self-motivated and have the perseverance to do the work without the structure of classes. Nowadays, with advances in computer technology, there is support readily available by CCU staff via e-mail and by telephone, of course.

It took me about 2 years to complete the program. While retired now, I worked for 20+ years and not once was my Master’s degree questioned by an employer. All of the positions I held required a Master’s degree. Over the 20+ years, I worked with seven different employers in the child and family services field. In some of those positions, I held the title of “Social Worker” for state-licensed agencies having specific standards (thru California State Community Care Licensing) for the social worker’s master’s degree. Later in my career, I held several supervisory and management positions. CCU perfectly met my needs and allowed me to get positions that were very rewarding and fulfilling, even prestigious.

While I cannot say anything negative about the CCU program (except that I hated the statistics class ?), the degree did not meet the requirements for licensure as a Social Worker or Marriage & Family Therapist in CA. So obviously, if a state licensure is a goal of yours, you should look to another school that is approved for that purpose.

I hope this information has been useful to you and I wish you the best of luck with your educational endeavors.