Grantham University

What are you trying to say, and what does it have to do with Grantham University?

Hello,
Do you offer Pre-Calulus I on-line? If so, is class, program and school ABET accredited?
Thanks

I recently completed my MBA-Project Management degree with GU. This is my second online graduate program. I completed my MS-Safety, Health & Environmental Management with Columbia Southern University in 2008. I found GU to be just as demanding, if not more so than CSU, and CSU was rated extremely high. It's not my intention to question or challenge the nay'sayers. I can only offer my own experience with GU and I am happy to report GU was great to me.

Actually, reviews on the net are very mixed. I have never gone there myself, but many say a DETC degree can have limited value and not be respected by US employers, even US state governments. From the point of view of what you actually learn, I can't say, but I doubt it is going to be different from many RA institution offering the same degree (for that matter, one can learn the same stuff even through professional/continuing education courses, non-credit cebettysmith90@ymail.comrtificates, work experience, and on one's own through books). I recommend safaribooksonline.com as a great resource for learning about programming and IT, if you can learn from books on your own, and it will also save you money should you enroll in a degree program in IT (safaribooksonline probably has most of the course text books you will need).

Yes there should realize the opportunity to RSS commentary, quite simply, CMS is another on the blog.

grantham university is a good school. honestly, online schools are generally the same. my experience is grantham has been nothing but helpful. my student advisor contacts me within hours after i contact, the admissions process was very simple, the online teachers, that i have, give great assessments of my work and are very involved. the certify official for the VA with grantham is very good. all classes have been certified through the VA no problem so far.all in all, im very happy with the school!!!!!! really could not ask for more. Grantham reputation is some what tainted but if you look at all online schools, they all have negative feedback. people are different. its based of opinion of grantham, not there actually performance of a nationaly accredited online school, which they are!! negative feedback could be exploited with every college, every everything for that matter. perhaps negative feedbacks were given because of disputes with the teachers? those peoples feedback is not accurate but from my eyes, a very good school and especially good for veterans!!!

Hi AJ, 

My name is Saurabh Agrawal. I'm busy enrolling myself for MBA in Information Management at Grantham University. Please give me your honest advice on education level, professors, curriculum, degree standard etc. at Grantham University. Also once I complete my degree from GU will it be accepted world around and in USA for jobs, research or higher education?

Regards,

Saurabh

Hi Hillel, 

My name is Saurabh Agrawal. I'm busy enrolling myself for MBA in Information Management at Grantham University. Please give me your honest advice on education level, professors, curriculum, degree standard etc. at Grantham University. Also once I complete my degree from GU will it be accepted world around and in USA for jobs, research or higher education?

Regards,

Saurabh

Hi Sean, 

My name is Saurabh Agrawal. I'm busy enrolling myself for MBA in Information Management at Grantham University. Please give me your honest advice on education level, professors, curriculum, degree standard etc. at Grantham University. Also once I complete my degree from GU will it be accepted world around and in USA for jobs, research or higher education?

Regards,

Saurabh 

Plain and simple..you get what you pay for. I have no money for a big name school, so I go to Grantham. Here's a fact. I'm already making more money then most of you ignorant idiots who are bashing Grantham and I don't even have a degree yet. I'm getting my BS in Electronics Engineering Technology. My employer already told me I will get $10K or more a year pay raise when I earn my degree from Grantham. No, I didn't get that in writing, but I believe them because I know of other co-workers who have gotten pay raises with earning a degree online, and I live in one of Forbes prior top 5 technological places to work Huntsville, AL... who only accept the best since UAH is right there and pump out engineers like candy.
Next, every teacher has a different style of teaching. Some provide feedback to all work and some don't. And some teachers do provide tutorials on the weekly classes at hand. My current Precalculus teacher provides a presentation on how to work all the problems for the week that is in the chapters we are suppose to read. Every teacher I have ever emailed has replied to me quickly and I have one teacher that offers one on one or group sessions on SKYPE. And for being a paper mill....that is bullcrap, big time. I am also taking General Chemistry and our tests consist of writing out the formulas and answers and showing your work (not just multiple choice). I am barely passing General Chemistry, but I will because I know it is hard for me and I have to put forth more effort to undertand it. They just don't hand out A's, you earn them. If this is true, take  class like English and copy some babble from Seaseme Street on one report and see what grade you get? If you get an "A" I will dis-enroll. If you go to any school and provide enough effort, you will pass. My wife went to a well accredited university and she had problems passing tests but still managed to pass the course...why, because she pays her tuition. Sorry folks this is a fact. Do you realize that how many people fail a class affects a teachers yearly review with the school. So what would you do to keep your nice comfy teaching job..help students pass. This does not always include cheating or making tests easy...teachers know which students need help and provide it to them as it reflects their job too...it could be extra credit or the retaking of test (which some major schools even let you do). Lastly, Is Grantham the end all be all of education...of course not it is a DETC school but it WILL open doors for you, I promise. The best thing to do is look at the job career field you want and find out what accreditions it requires. Engineering is a real stickler because some states require only engineering schools, accreditaions and licenses from their region. I like Grantham and have been going for a year now and will complete my BS to better further myself, but why stop there!

I have read a plethora of threads posting negative and positive comments about NA versus RA, Teachers, and transfering credits. Here is the truth in a nut shell; If you get your degree from GU, you can work for OPM ( Office of personnel mangt). If you dont believe it, just go to usajobs.gov and see for yourself. No one is forcing anyone to go to GU.

"Onlines with RAs aren't much better anyway"??? C'mon now!!! Even Harvard has online degrees!!! "Never accepted by mainstream"??? Please!!! This is the 21st century!!! Everything's online nowadays!!! 

does anyone know what happened with Grantham's application for regional accreditation? it seems they applied for 'initial accreditation' on 9/27/10. Check it out - h t t p ://www.ncahlc.org/search.html?areas[0]=springcmsearch&ordering=&searchphrase=all&searchword=grantham

Grantham is what you make it.  I'm currently enrolled in their M.S. Information Management program and have been pretty pleased with the program. The instructors have been available and knowledgeable and you get out of it what you put in to it. When obtaining my undergrad degree at the University of Maryland, sitting in a lecture hall with 100 other students was no different than doing it online.  At those big universities, the professor doesn't know you from Adam and you still get out of it what you put in to it.  I could have saved myself tons of money by starting with Grantham many years ago. Overall a great college and one I'd recommend to anyone.

If one is earning degree in order to teach in college then they should go to RA university / college.

GU degrees accepted for employment by Kinds of employers:

Federal government (civilian)--yes
Military--yes, usually
State and local governments--lots of them, yes
Private (commercial and not-for-profit)--hit-and-miss; I suspect more hits
Academia (administrative)--hit-and-miss; I suspect more misses
Academia (faculty)--almost always no

My early experience with admission office was on the rocky side. They could not locate my undergraduate transcripts, and then they asked me for my H/S diploma from 1982. After I was admitted, everything was smooth with exception to registration for new courses. I wish they change the rule and make it easier for students to do self-registration vs. going through student advisor. Tuition is very affordable; textbooks are included along with FedEx. I know you are on your own when it comes to studying and doing research papers, which I love the most. I set my own pace and run with it. Grantham University is the best thing that happened to me since 2010. I wish I have tripped over it long time ago...I'm half way through my MBA and lovin' it. I thought going back to school after 22 years plus married with 4 kids would be impossible to accomplish, but I'm almost finished..

helllooo, I am new. Thought I'd say hi.

see you around and Thanks (sorry if this is the wrong thread  to put this post)

First off, l am a former Grantham employee. I left because I finished my MBA there and simply found a higher paying gig. For all of those with a negative opinion, you are of course entitled to it. But let me tell you what is really happening with students today.
People are scampering for jobs and want the easiest way to do it. If you are looking at an online school, it's usually because you have a crazy schedule or you believe it to be easier. I can tell you the classes are every bit as difficult as the regionally accredited undergrad school I attended. Every day I spoke to dozens of people who admitted that school was important and then found excuses why they couldn't start. I can honestly say that the people working at GU right now work their tails off trying to help students who make us chase them for paper work and miss deadlines only to start and then drop out after a month, putting them in the hole with VA or TA and preventing them from going back to college for several more years. I hate the way people bash Reg vs Nat accreditation when the DoE makes states there is no difference. GU is here to help people, plain and simple, who are serious about college. I look forward to the day when the stigma of "diploma mills"( a ridiculous term) is done and over. Simple question: if you're serving in Afghanistan in a forward operating base and want to have continuous education and finish a degree, how many "real or ground" schools are going to provide that option for you? I look forward to all the post bashing that follows!

I proctored some of those NA exams. They are so easy that a 12 year old could pass them!

RA Gold standard :-)

UCF Professor Busts Students For Cheating

w w w.wftv.com/news/25746350/detail.html

A University of Central Florida professor found out hundreds of students cheated on his mid-term and Wednesday he spoke with WFTV. He said 600 students were given until midnight to retake the exam.

The UCF College of Business professor noticed abnormally high scores. Soon afterward, students came forward saying someone had all the answers.

This is what got me...

This is college. Everyone cheats. Everyone cheats in life in general. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in this testing lab who hasn't cheated on an exam. They're making a witch hunt out of absolutely nothing, as if they want to teach us some kind of moral lesson," student Konstantin Ravvin said.

I'm back!!! My addiction.
I lost job to a GU graduate, I paid 100K for my RA degree and wasn't hired, I'm jealous of GU grads so I will have revenge.

In my RA school all I had to do is party and cheat on exams, at GU I actually had to study so I failed :-(

If harvard was a nice and tight fiber filled turd without having to wipe; then Grantham is a messay diarrhea that eventually kills you from dehydration.

AJ, I'm glad its working for you!
WHen I was working on my degree, in addition to test book, and materials I supplemented my studies with lectures from MIT, Berkeley, Warthon and other leading business schools.

These are free on YouTube and also can download some in MP4 format

For example check lecture on Economics from Berkeley
Introduction to Environmental Economics and Policy

I am finishing up my MBA with Grantham. For the most part, I have a positive experience. There was only one professor that was difficult to contact. I expressed my concerns to my student progress rep and they immediately took care of the situation. I actually found that attending online courses, compared to traditional classrooms, are more difficult. You have to be motivated and teach yourself in a sense. All of my professors have been just as qualified to teach the subject matter as those in my undergrad. I think Grantham was a great decision.

Hundreds if not Thousands of Universities target military funds for education.

Grantham offers military personnel flexible rout to a degree.
No body is forcing any body.

Many of our military are experts in their fields, they support state of the art technologies, exposed to the leading products in aviation, telecommunication, marine, architecture, information systems, radars, satellites and advanced medical field facilities etc.

In one sentence super qualified and experienced people.

WHen I see US military experience and training on a persons resume I need no other credentials to hire the person.
But if they also hold an accredited(recognized accreditation such as NA, RA) degree then its even better.

I've just completed my enrollment and will be starting my 2nd BS in Computer Science this week.  I already have a MS in Engineering from a regionally accredited university, most of my previous college credits have transferred over.  My experience so far has been A+, my admissions counselor Chris has been awesome.  His response time to emails and phone calls has been superb, I have nothing negative to report at this time.  I will post another comment after completing my 1st class.

No I actually didn't go here. But what I do know is Grantham targets military members because they have Tuition Assistance (free money) and GI Bills (free money). So they do whatever it takes to sucker our nations best. It's freaking sad, and I hope one day the military money machine realizes how worthless an NA degree is and stops funding them. Even the military education offices preach against pursuing an NA degree, even though they can't stop somebody for pressing on. Wake up -- online education has a bad rap, and add NA to it and you really have wasted your time.

You are simply misleading the readers with your lies.
Check the definition of Diploma Mill then come back here and admit that you are wrong.

Some ex employees and drop outs who failed their classes at GU come here for revenge and you are one of them.

There are some many successful professionals  with degree from GU. Many are still in active or reserve service defending our country.

Other graduates are successfully employed in the industry.

And yes there are couple of failures that come here for revenge we all can spot them.

I know it hurts. But it's the truth. Grantham is a 'legal' diploma mill. Unfortunately the NA accreditation probably makes this diploma mill even more worthless. I think the diploma I can send away for (for a small fee) is worth more in the real world than a GU NA degree. Toilet Paper.

School drop out!
get life

I need some more. I think I'll get an NA degree from this school. Ahh, fresh paper. A little rough on the bum though. 

NA = No good.

DETC Bachelor's accepted for police chief position:
Ellis said no national search was needed because he had the right man to lead the force, but just needed to give him time to complete the necessary requirements, including finishing his college degree.

...O’Brien, 47, graduated from the FBI academy in June and received his bachelor’s degree in criminal justice from Columbia Southern University in August.

O’Brien said his goals remain the same: making the county safer and improving conditions for his 1,060 officers.

Only to some one like you drop out.
Most if not all NU degreed persons are employed successfully.

There are idiots like you everywhere, they even say Harvard degrees are useless.

Readers here know better.

NA degrees are useless!

Every one with Eng Technology degree from GU can get Graduatship in Engineering from UK.

City and Guilds is the examining and accreditation body in UK, 2 to 3 millions of students are working toward City and Guilds London Institute qualifications.
City and Guilds is the examining body for UK Engineering Council.

Their Graduatship in Engineering is evaluated in USA by charter member NACES agency as equivalent to USA RA Bachelors degree in Engineering.

All employers and most of the universities accept NACES report for employment and further study.

I just completed my BS in Business Administration at Grantham and was accepted to a regionally accredited Master's program (not Grantham of course).  It took some work to find a school that fit my budget and was regionally accredited but I finally did.  Folks, we all need to be honest here.  Grantham is not a traditional university and brick and mortar schools don't like them.  It's a good fit for the working adult.  I do feel a lot better about my Grantham degree now that I'm taking grad level classes in a regionally accredited school.  I figure if a potential employer questions my Grantham degree I can quickly tell them that I'm pursuing a Masters.  I can tell you that some of the math requirements, mostly statistics, were very challenging.  I actually work at a school that is rated in the top 5 by Forbes.  I would get help from a statistics professor and even they said it was challenging to complete in such a short period of time.  Anyways - hang in there and finish with Grantham, then run to a regionally accredited school.  Try Capella or American Public University.  They are not "top tier" but they are regional.  Hope this post helps.

I hear you! NA (GU) sucks!

The University of Wisconsin-Platteville has educated engineers for over 150 years and has earned a national reputation as an excellent engineering institution. UWP graduates are employed at many of the largest engineering organizations in the US, such as Boeing, Northrop Grumman, CH2M Hill, Bemis, John Deere, Rockwell Collins, and many more.

Designed with practicing engineers in mind, the online Master of Science in Engineering program (MSENGR) develops skills in advanced mathematics, engineering management, technical communications, and computer applications. After completing the program, graduates will be prepared to assume additional responsibilities in their organization.

To gain full admission to the MSENGR program, students should have

A bachelor’s degree in engineering from a nationally or regionally accredited institution recognized by the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA). International degrees will be evaluated on an individual basis. Students with a technical bachelor’s degree are encouraged to apply.
An undergraduate grade point average (GPA) of 2.75 or higher, or 2.90 on the last 60 credits taken at the degree-granting institution. Students who do not qualify for admission in full standing may be admitted on a trial enrollment justified by the admitting department and approved by the Dean of the School of Graduate Studies.

Interesting article: Kaplan U. among schools under fire - Education - MiamiHerald.com 

I specially like the way Kaplan University defines success, a few for your enjoyment:
Bittel wrote that her school routinely stretched the truth when classifying graduates as having found work in their respective fields. Examples included:

• A Game Art and Design student -- trained to create video games -- who after completing a bachelor's degree program took a job working at Toys R Us, in the video game department. The student had amassed $100,000 in debt, was earning $8.90 an hour, and Bittel said she was pressured to classify him as successfully employed because his knowledge would ``help customers decide which games to purchase.''

• A Graphic Design student working at Starbucks could be categorized as successfully placed because their creative skills were used when ``making signs for daily specials and menus.''

• A Residential Planning Graduate, working in a gas station convenience store, could be deemed successfully placed because those same planning skills were being used to arrange displays of candy bars.

These are classic.
RA my A....

GU sucks! Go to University of Phoenix (UOP) instead!!! It's way better coz it's RA!!!

...Damn right!

UOP is pretty bad. They have one of those "probationary" RA accreds. Which means that they have to try for it every year. Real schools (like Stanford and the likes) only have to re-up every ten years.

So yes, there are crappy RA schools like UOP and Capella. However they unfortunately kick the s h i t out of Grantham. Which is completely SAD.

NA sucks! Go to University of Phoenix (UOP) instead!!! It's way better coz it's RA!!!

...yeah right.

This school gives out 100s like they're candy. You pay, you get good grades, that's the deal. There's no education here, just money making. Of course, NA has zero credibility compared to RA. BUYER BEWARE.

I attended this university for a week. I will give a quick rundown of the admissions part and what didn't sit right with me. First of all I had to start a week later than was planned because I could never get a hold of my admissions rep (I would call every day). I did get a hold of her the day before I was going to start classes and she didn't want to cram so she postponed my date for a week later. Once I started I was told that none of my previous college, military, training, or certificates were going to transfer over towards my degree. Seems a little fishy to me when the university that I went to after dropping Grantham transferred 42 credits. Seems like Grantham wants to con you into taking more courses with them so they can rake in the money. Also a friend of mine that I know goes to Grantham, they told him that he was going to have credits that will transfer. The credits that they transferred didn't even go towards his degree! They just sit there in a bucket not being used, just another example of Grantham wanting money. I won't say what university I ended up going to because I don't want to sound like I am trying to sell something here. I did call/email/chat with around 20 different online universities before I made my mind up and I am so happy where I am at now. Great military reps etc... Do your research and choose what your gut tells you.

That's the next visit list. Probably will take 3-6 months (?) before any results are added to the system.

It appears that GU has been deleted from the HLC website. So much for their RA...

they won't.

Yes its today.

I will be very happy for GU and the graduates if and when they get RA.

h t t p://ncahlc.org/information-for-the-public/visit-list.html 

Hope they get it...

MHA program could be:

HSN521 - Modern Organizations Healthcare

HSN526? - Healthcare Human Resource Management

HSN551 - Legal and Ethical Issues of Healthcare Management

HSN112 - Introduction to Health Information Management

HSN532 - Leadership in Healthcare Organizations

HSN514 - Project and Change Management

HSN511 - Health Services Management

HSN541 - Healthcare Finance and Economics

HSN543 - Healthcare Strategic Management 

HSN??? - Healthcare Quality Management

HSN516? - Research Process and Design (APA book only)

HSN598 - Healthcare Management Capstone

BA510 - Accounting - not specific for healthcare systems but useful.

BA540 - Managerial Economics - Also useful though not specific for healthcare systems. HSN541 may be more appropriate. Then again, you already have HSN531.

BA515 - Management of Information Systems - not specific for healthcare systems. How about HSN112 or HSN432 instead?

BA530 - Marketing Management - not specific for healthcare systems. Therefore, not essential. To develop Healthcare Marketing course!!!

BA580 - Strategies for Change - unnecessary. HSN543 is already in the curriculum. HSN514 will be a better choice.

BA661 - Human Resource Strategies - not specific for healthcare systems - How about HSN513 instead?

HSN511 - Health Services Management - OK

HSN521 - Modern Organizations Healthcare - OK

HSN531 - Healthcare Financial Mgmt - OK. However, HSN541 includes Healthcare Economics.

HSN543 - Healthcare Strategic Mgmt - OK

HSN598 - Capstone - WHY 6 Credits? Why not 3?

TO ADD HSN516, HSN532 and HSN551 to the curriculum. A course on "Healthcare Quality Management and Performance Improvement" is also vital to a MHA program.

CCNE Accreditation is a plus since CAMHE accreditation is impossible with NA programs. 

I would definitely reconsider enrolling in Grantham if the curriculum was revised. I don't really care about the RA vs. NA debate since education is what you make of it. The tuition costs are also reasonable in GU. Then again, student services and professor feedback must be exceptional to ensure retention of students until graduation...

Its OK to provide feedback, this is constructive and allows GU to make adjustments.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From a DETC bulletin here:
hccp://detc,org/downloads/bulletins/...20Approved.pdf

"The Distance Education and Training Council is pleased to announce that, at its public session on Sept 21st, the Council of Higher Education Accreditation Board of Directors voted to approve a formal request for a change of scope for DETC to include professional doctoral degrees. This action by CHEA brings the DETC's Federally-recognized scope in consonance with its CHEA-recognized scope. The U.S. Secretary of Education recognized DETC's work in the professional doctoral degree area in 2007."

So until now doctorate degrees from DETC schools were USDE recognized but not CHEA recognized? Do you think this makes DETC doctorate degrees more appealing? The bulletin notes that 13 DETC schools currently offer professional doctorates.

not accredited by AACSB, and it's NA

I took one look at Grantham's MHA (Master of Healthcare Administration)curriculum and decided not to enroll. The Dean definitely needs to review the program outline. Plus, it's not even accredited by the Commission on Collegiate Nursing Education (CCNE)!!!

Can you be a bit more specific concerning who these employers are? I can imagine if they are hiring a retail sales person they wouldn't really care or know the difference between RA and NA!

@Rich time are changing. Did you know that the Wall Street Journal recently surveyed 479 recruiters who hired 43,000 business (and engineering) grads last year, and learned that the state universities strongly outranked the Ivy League in recruiter preference: which schools produced graduates who were "the best-trained and educated, and best able to succeed once hired."

Here are the top ten, along with the USNews 2011 ranking for each:
Penn State (#47 in U.S. News)
Texas A&M (#63)
Illinois (#47)
Purdue (#56)
Arizona State (#143)
Michigan (#29)
Georgia Tech (#35)
Maryland (#56)
Florida (#53)
Carnegie Mellon (#23)

Only one Ivy League school [Cornell] made the top 25.

Fascinating, eh?

hccp://tinyurl,com/36n7l6c

Another info I'm compiling is employer satisfaction from the NA degreed personnel. The responses so far are 80% of the employers don't care if the degree is NA or RA unless it was in specialty professions. I got to few responses so far to call a definitive number.
Will know when more surveys arrive/returned.

Thank you for the list. However......

1. Some of these are NA schools
2. Some of these are Community Colleges
3. Some of these are very lowly regarded RA schools (i.e. Kaplan and University of Phoenix)
4. There are only a small number of legitimate schools on this list that do not fall into the categories outlined in #1-3.

Listed below are some of the institutions that have accepted Grantham credits according to recent survey:

American Intercontinental University 
American Military University 
American Public University 
Ashworth University 
Augusta Technical College
Bellevue University
Berkeley College
California Coast College 
Central Pennsylvania College 
Clara County Community College 
Cochise College 
College of Southern Maryland 
Columbia College 
Columbia Southern University 
Community College of the Air Force 
Excelsior College 
Franklin University 
Georgia Southern 
Johnson State College 
Kaplan University 
Kennedy Western University 
Madison University 
Mansfield University of Pennsylvania
Montgomery Community College 
Mountain State University 
Ottawa University 
Peru State College
Saint Joseph's College
South University
Southwest University 
St. Andrews Presbyterian College 
St. Leo University 
Thomas Edison 
Trinity International University 
Troy University 
TUI University
University of Charleston
University of Maryland 
University of Missouri 
University of Oklahoma 
University of Phoenix 
Western Governors University

This is what Anthony said on Sept. 1st :"When I worked for a California community college some years ago, we hired several faculty whose doctorates were not regionally accredited." California Community Colleges DO NOT HIRE, NOR HAVE THEY EVER HIRED instructors or professors without RA Masters Degree, Doctorates or PhDs. PERIOD!! Anthony is wrong!!! He said nothing about GU grads. He did state the above which is completely false!!!!!!! Does that discredit him and make him a liar??? You decide.

You realized that Anthony is correct and instead admitting you been wrong you simply change the subject to Grantham.

Dr. Anthony never said here or anywhere that GU graduates are teaching in Community Colleges.

Please revisit what he stated.
Be it known 

NA degree acceptance:

Federal government (civilian)--yes
Military--yes, usually
State and local governments--lots of them, yes
Private (commercial and not-for-profit)--hit-and-miss; I suspect more hits
Academia (administrative)--hit-and-miss; I suspect more misses
Academia (faculty)--almost always no

I guess these guys just don't understand what you are saying! I want to tell you that you your comments are spot on target! Good work!

California Community Colleges require their part-time adjuncts to have attended a Regionally Accredited school. Grantham folks can't even teach at a Community College. Oh, and did I mention Grantham won't hire its own graduates because they did not attend a Regionally Accredited school? These TWO very GLARING things should tell you that a Nationally Accredited school like Grantham is worthless trash. Even UoP's RA degree is worth more than a Grantham degree, and that is just plain pathetic...

Thats the point, do you kmow if their Masters degree was RA?

This is what Anthony said on Sept. 1st :"When I worked for a California community college some years ago, we hired several faculty whose doctorates were not regionally accredited." California Community Colleges DO NOT HIRE, NOR HAVE THEY EVER HIRED instructors or professors without RA Masters Degree, Doctorates or PhDs. PERIOD!! Anthony is wrong!!!

Anthony is not wrong, he never stated they that had non RA MA / MS degree. 

I hear what you say and agree about the Masters degree but not about the Doctorate or Ph.D.
I'm in communication with Dr. Anthony and maybe be able to get more detailed info.

The part I will get additional info is "When I worked for a California community college some years ago, we hired several faculty whose doctorates were not regionally accredited. They had exceptional curriculum vitas and quite a bit of teaching and practical field experience."

You said "I agree with California Community Colleges do not hire instructors or professors without RA Masters Degree, Doctorates or PhDs. Wile that the rule there are exceptions to the rule.
Dr Anthony - Larry didn't state that as a meter of rule this was a practice , what he stated was an exception." i don't think that you understand what I am saying. I am saying that there is NO EXCEPTION TO THE RULE! California Community Colleges DO NOT HIRE, NOR HAVE THEY EVER HIRED
instructors or professors without RA Masters Degree, Doctorates or PhDs. PERIOD!! Anthony is wrong!!! He is not telling the truth!!!END OF STORY!!!

Cal Coast Universities was State approved, unaccredited university. It never was a diploma mill. It was approved to award doctorates and Ph.D's as posted above.

In the state of CA this degrees allowed to seat for state licensing exam and practice professions such as Psychology, Cal Bar for JD etc.

I agree with California Community Colleges do not hire instructors or professors without RA Masters Degree,  Doctorates or PhDs. Wile that the rule there are exceptions to the rule.
Dr Anthony - Larry didn't state that as a meter of rule this was a practice , what he stated was an exception.

I clearly provided you non RA Ph.Ds that in the 90's were accepted in some instances a specially from people with RA MAsters and noticeable achievement in their field.

Even Harvard may lat you with Cal Coast then unaccredited degree in to their graduate school. It will be an exception and not general practice.

Let me tell you that there is a thing called "Banding the rules".

You said "What was stated was the faculty had non-regional accredited doctorates." California Community Colleges do not hire instructors or professors without RA Doctorates or PhDs!!!! You must hold a RA Doctorate or PhD to instruct at a California Community College!!! You have been discredited!!! End of story!!!!

I said DETC is not allowed to grant PhDs.  This is fact. What was stated was the faculty had non-regional accredited doctorates.  That means either non-PhD DETC or diploma mills.  Regional are the only ones ALLOWED to grant PhDs.

B.S.	Bachelor of Science	Business Administration
B.S.	Bachelor of Science	Management
M.B.A..	Master of Business Administration	Business Administration
M.S.	Master of Science	Health Care Management
D.B.A.	Doctor of Business Administration	Business Administration
Ph.D.	Doctor of Philosophy	Business Administration
Ph.D.	Doctor of Philosophy	Management

School of Engineering
	Degree	Major
M.S.	Master of Science	Engineering Management
Ph.D.	Doctor of Philosophy	Engineering Management


In 2000 Cal Coast Programs included:

School of Behavioral Science
	Degree	Major
B.S.	Bachelor of Science	Psychology
M.S.	Master of Science	Psychology
Ph.D.	Doctor of Philosophy	Psychology


School of Education
	Degree	Major
Ed.D.	Doctor of Education	Education

NA degree acceptance:

Federal government (civilian)--yes
Military--yes, usually
State and local governments--lots of them, yes
Private (commercial and not-for-profit)--hit-and-miss; I suspect more hits
Academia (administrative)--hit-and-miss; I suspect more misses
Academia (faculty)--almost always no

Even state Community Colleges require their part-time adjuncts to have attended a Regionally Accredited school. Grantham folks can't even teach at a Community College. Oh, and did I mention Grantham won't hire its own graduates because they did not attend a Regionally Accredited school? These TWO very GLARING things should tell you that a Nationally Accredited school is worthless trash. Even UoP is worth more than a Grantham degree, and that is just plain pathetic...

You can read Mikki! A.Pena (or whatever his name is) claims that a PhD from California Coast 'University' was teaching at a California Community College (See Sept 1st and 3rd). Yet, CCU does not have a PhD program in any field AND California Community Colleges do not hire instructors with NA or unaccredited PhD's. He refuses to provide the name of the California Community College that hired this instructor.  He has been discredited!! End of story!!

Hi,
This is Mikki
I read his reply and I think he provided the info. 
Can you expand and prove your point?

This is in reaction to Anthony's (aka Larry's) statements on Sept. 1st and 3rd:

Anthony Pena's statement about unaccredited PhD's teaching at California Community Colleges was completely discredited. As I always say, believe less than half of what you read in these forums!!!

Why is that?
I didn't see anything that points to your view?

DETC BSEET - has utility and many graduates use degree successfuly. 
As to Acceptance for employment:
This is unbiased truth:

NA degree acceptance:

Federal government (civilian)--yes
Military--yes, usually
State and local governments--lots of them, yes
Private (commercial and not-for-profit)--hit-and-miss; I suspect more hits
Academia (administrative)--hit-and-miss; I suspect more misses
Academia (faculty)--almost always no

So not a waste, but one will do better if they hold RA degree as the acceptability is higher.

Also remeber that there are atleast 4 universities like Western Governors University that will accept DETC degrees in to RA MAsters degree programs.

Anthony Pena's statement about unaccredited PhD's teaching at California Community Colleges was completely discredited. As I always say, believe less than half of what you read in these forums!!!

Many states and organizations have adopted "regionally-accredited" to exclude schools that haven't achieved recognized accreditation or who are not accredited at all. However, such language will not stand the test of time, because nationally-accredited schools have achieved recognized accreditation. If necessary, legal challenges will be made, by the many attorneys who exist, seemingly on every street corner... 

Eventually, NA schools will be a path to earn credits for the CPA exam and many, many other paths to professional licensure, if they are not already...

Q: What credit hours can I expect to transfer into WGU?
A: Many students transfer into a WGU degree program already having accumulated many credit hours or having earned an associate’s degree. Transcripts are evaluated on a course-by-course basis according to the following general guidelines:

If you hold an Associate of Arts (AA) or Associate of Science (AS) degree from a regionally or DETC-accredited school, you should clear all or many of the lower-division requirements for a bachelor’s degree in Business or Information Technology. This is also true for select Teachers College programs. Only an official transcript evaluation can determine how many requirements you may be able to waive. 
If you earned an Associate of Applied Science (A.A.S.) or other applied associate’s degree, you may be able to clear a significant portion of WGU's lower-division degree requirements. 
If you have completed college courses but have not earned a degree of any type, you may also be able to have some degree requirements cleared through a course-by-course transcript evaluation.

RA+ABET would be the best for Engineering or Engineering Technology.
RA with AACSB accredited for MBA

DETC BSEET - has utility and many graduates use degree successfuly. 
As to Acceptance for employment:
This is unbiased  truth:

NA degree acceptance:

Federal government (civilian)--yes
Military--yes, usually
State and local governments--lots of them, yes
Private (commercial and not-for-profit)--hit-and-miss; I suspect more hits
Academia (administrative)--hit-and-miss; I suspect more misses
Academia (faculty)--almost always no

So not a waste, but one will do better if they hold RA degree as the acceptability is higher.

Also remeber that there are atleast 4 universities like Western Governors University that will accept DETC degrees in to RA MAsters degree programs.

Again, let's go back to the appropriate analogy:

NA = mall cop
RA = LA vice squad
RA with AACSB accred = FBI / CIA

just the facts. I feel bad for Grantham suckers.

I see in the future School Principals with DETC ED.D degrees.
Aspen offers affordable Ed.D.

For some it can be a good choice, as the purpose is different.

I also see DETC universities hiring DETC Doctorates to teach.
This is new, time will show.

At the time when California Coast University applied for DETC accreditation, DETC didn't accredit Doctorates.
Today they do.

Please don't jump to conclusions and use first excuse to attack. Do your homework first.

You are mixing today with the past. In the past in the late 80's and early 90s CA approval in state of CA had some supporters among colleges as well. I seen CA state approved doctorates among faculty in number of city and community colleges. Santa Monica SMCC had a few. Pierce had at least one faculty with CA approved Doctorate.
West Coast University had number of professors with CA approved Doctorates.

Quick thought... the acceptability of bachelor's, master's and doctorate's really isn't comparable, so it is important not to lump them all together; the degrees have completely different origins and purposes.

This is taking wrong turn here.
The against GU crowd is rood and pro GU crows is better choose their words.

Can we get back to GU.

Are there any surveys of GU graduates that can be shared with us?

YOU ARE A TRUE SCHMUCK!!!!!! I will demand an explanation any time I feel someone is lying. I have that right you jackass crackhead!!!

RE: @ Dear Larry
You said "Cal Coast University had to drop their doctorates temporary when they applied for DETC accreditation." So you are saying that the PhD program at CCU was unaccredited? Not even lowly DETC had accredited them? We are supposed to believe that the California Community College System hired an individual to teach with an unaccredited PhD? As I said to Larry (aka Anthony)please do not come into a forum such as this and post your bullsh**.

By the way, I completely agree with 'DETC DBA = waste of time' when he/she said "DETC accredits garbage."

DETC accredits garbage. If someone actually tried to do this with Grantham, that would be a collossal waste of money and time. I feel bad for the suckers of Grantham. RA is the ONLY WAY. BTW does grantham have its AACSB accred? I don't think so. What a waste.

Cal Coast University had to drop their doctorates temporary when they applied for DETC accreditation.

They used to offer Doctorates in Psychology, Business and some others I just don't recall at the moment.

Now that DETC is allowed to accredit DBA and EDD I see some NA universities adding these degrees to their offerings.
Columbia Southern was among first DETC accredited universities
to offer DBA degrees.

I'm yet to see and the jury is out to the value of DETC doctorates, they are to new.

Dear Larry;

You said "One professor with UCLA MA in Clinical Psychology, and Ph.D Cal Coast University" Unfortunately for you, Cal Coast University does not even offer a PhD in Psychology (or any other field). As I said, please do not come in here and post bullsh**. California Community Colleges Do NOT hire faculty with NA degrees. 

To: @ Avoiding the Question. You are a jackass. Who TF do you think you are even speaking to me that way you low life form?

Some o the universities mentioned above provide good education and not easy to graduate at all.

Unlike Excelsior College, when two of my friends took number of subject GRE and CLEP and within short time (diploma mill time) earned RA Bachelor degrees.

Then one with fresh knowledge from any NA school could have an RA degree by taking some exams.
Awarding an entire major's worth of credit for passing one exam is a millish practice, but hey its RA the accreditation god :-)

California Coast University was never a diploma mill.
The graduates had the right to take CA state licensing exams.
In 1990 the CA state department of Education officially viewed and published that the CA state approval was equivalent to RA/NA.

There are in CA state approved law schools that are unaccredited as well.
But their JD graduates are allowed to take Cal Bar and  practice law in the state of CA.
In all cases the persons hired had RA Masters degree and impressive experience 



Wile majority of unaccredited universities are mills. Not every unaccredited university is a mill.
CCU today is DETC accredited and offers DBA, EDD degrees in addition to the BA, MA degrees.

Larry said... "we hired several faculty whose doctorates were not regionally accredited."

NA is not allowed to offer PhDs, so they must have been diploma mills.

Avoiding the Questions
Who TF are you to come here and demand explanations.
If you are a drop out or simply RA employee, by what authority
you come here.

Are you anybody or no body, 

I'm glad Larry is posting here, and find his info credible. You mr dropout go back to your fornicating, drinking sorority satan worshiping hole you crawled out.

Unless you prove that you are of equal standing to MR Anthony Piña, Ed.D don't bark here under anonymity.
As far as we concern you are ex employee or a drop out of GU.

One professor with UCLA MA in Clinical Psychology, and Ph.D Cal Coast University CA licensed Psychologist. (before CCU gained DETC)

A JD CA Licensed with non RA JD and USC BA in Political Science.

I will provide additional info once I learn more about your background and be able to validate it.

Dear Larry;
You are avoiding the questions:
"When I worked for a California community college some years ago, we hired several faculty whose doctorates were not regionally accredited. They had exceptional curriculum vitas and quite a bit of teaching and practical field experience." You also said "Now that I am ina position to hire adjunct faculty to teach for my university, would I consider someone with an NA degree? Probably, however there are a number of considerations for hiring faculty:"

What California Community College? They DO NOT hire instructors that have doctorates that are not regionally accredited!!!!  
How many adjunct faculty do you have at Sullivan that have NA advanced degrees (Master's or Doctorates)? The answer is NONE!!!! 

Please do not come to a forum like this a post a bunch of Bullsh**!!!

RA Non-profit private institutions operate much like the for-profits, in that their tuition pays a higher percentage of the costs. Usually these institutions charge tuition that is higher than that of for-profits and much higher than tax-supported community colleges and state universities. Although they charge higher tuition, the student body is, in general, far more affluent. Non-profits also have access to federal, state and local grant funding that for-profits generally do not.

In this poor economy, we are seeing the highest amount of loan defaults, not surprisingly, in the lowest income bracket students (those attending community colleges, state universities and for-profits). Although it costs taxpayers more to send a student through community college or state universities than it does to send them through a for-profit, the discussion of taxpayer liability is limited exclusively to federal student loans.

I started my doctoral studies in the Educational Technology PhD program at Arizona State U. An offer that I could not refuse (as Coordinator of Educational Technology at College of the Desert) necessitated a move to California. When it became obvious that moving back to Arizona was not in the cards, I found the right program for me at La Sierra University, which used to be a campus of Loma Linda University. La Sierra had the right program: Leadership with a concentration in either educational administration or educational technology. I chose the latter. La Sierra's highest degree is the EdD, but that has not hindered my career in higher ed (nor has receiving a degree from a university that no one recognizes). Even though I am not Seventh-day Adventist (LSU is affiliated with SDA), I ended up teaching online courses for La Sierra for a few years. La Sierra does not offer its EdD online (although it does offer some of its masters degrees that way).
__________________
Anthony Piña, Ed.D.
Dean of Online Studies

Now its your turn

Anthony A. Piña, Ed.D. Dean of Online Studies. Sullivan University System Global e-Learning 2100 Gardiner Lane, Suite 220 Louisville, KY 40205 (502) 413-8848

Doctor of Education Degree (Leadership and Technology emphasis)
   La Sierra University, Riverside, CA  2005

Post-graduate study/internships in Instructional Technology
   Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ  1991-94, 96

Master of Education Degree in Educational Psychology (Instructional Psychology & Technology)
   Brigham Young University, Provo, UT  1991

Bachelor of Arts Degree in Spanish, minor in Psychology (Teaching emphasis)
   Brigham Young University, Provo, UT  1989

Associate of Arts Degree in Spanish Language and Culture
   Brigham Young University, Provo, UT  1988

I serve currently as Dean of Online Studies for the Sullivan University System, Kentucky's largest private university.  I oversee academic and technology functions of Sullivan's Global e-Learning Campus that provides over 400 online and blended courses, 19 online degree programs and 5 online certificate programs for over 3,000 students.

Recent Publications
Books
Mizell, A. P. & Piña, A. A. (Eds.) (2010). Real Life Distance Education: Cases in Research and Practice.  Charlotte, NC: Information Age Publishing. (in pre-production)
Piña, A. A. (2008).  Distance Learning and the Institution: Foundations, Importance and Implementation. Saarbrücken, Germany: VDM Publishing. ISBN 978-3-639-07860-2
Refereed Book Chapters
 Piña, A. A. (2009). An Overview of Commercial Learning Management Systems.  In Y. Kats (Ed.) Learning Management Systems Technologies and Software Solutions for Online Teaching: Tools and Applications. Hershey, PA: Information Science Publicatons.
Harris, B. R., Piña, A. A. & Lindner, R. W. (2010). Promoting Self-Regulated Learning Strategies in Online Learning Environments. In G. Dettori & D. Perisco (Eds.) Fostering Self Regulated Learning Through ICTs. Hershey, PA: IGI Global.
Scheinbuks, J. & Piña, A. A. (2009).  Online Teaching Partnerships in Diverse Socio-Economic Institutions. In S. Mukerji & P. Tripathi (Eds.) Cases on Technological Adaptability and Transnational Learning: Issues and Challenges. Hershey, PA: IGI Global.
Refereed Journal Articles
Piña, A. A. & Bohn, L. (2010). Best Practices for LMS Integration into a Professional Doctoral Program. Instructional Practice in Higher Education 1(1).
Piña, A. A. (2010). Online Diploma Mills: Implications for Legitimate Distance Education. Distance Education 31(1).
Piña, A. A. (2009). How Online Diploma Mills Hurt e-Learning. e-Mentor 5(32)
Piña, A. A. (2009). Factors Influencing the Institutionalization of Distance Learning in Higher Education. Quarterly Review of Distance Education 9(4)
 Piña, A. A., Sadowski, K. P, Scheidenhelm, C. L. & Heydenburg, P.R. (2008).  SLATE: A Community of Practice

For all we know you could be a used car salesman. Here is what you said:
"When I worked for a California community college some years ago, we hired several faculty whose doctorates were not regionally accredited. They had exceptional curriculum vitas and quite a bit of teaching and practical field experience." You also said "Now that I am ina position to hire adjunct faculty to teach for my university, would I consider someone with an NA degree? Probably, however there are a number of considerations for hiring faculty:"

Why don't you provide more detail so that we can check your story out. We would like to know what California Community College are you talking about? I know individuals that teach at California Community Colleges (Santa Monica College, Pierce College, West Los Angeles College etc.) and they laughed at the notion that an NA individual would get a teaching position at a California Community College. Tax apyer dollars are not wasted on NA grads in teaching positions!!! I would like to make a call or two about your assertion that an NA individual was hired. You said that their doctorates were from NA universities. Which universities are we talking about? I would like to make some inquires about that as well. You said that you now hire adjunct professors. What university are you working for? What degrees do you have and from which universities did you earn these degrees? 
We believe you are a liar unless you can provide the information requested and that it can be confirmed. Any used car salesman can get into a forum like this and make all kinds of statements....Larry.

An NA degree will certainly not preclude you from developing your private school and the doctorate would lend you credibility. When I worked for a California community college some years ago, we hired several faculty whose doctorates were not regionally accredited. They had exceptional curriculum vitas and quite a bit of teaching and practical field experience.

Now that I am ina position to hire adjunct faculty to teach for my university, would I consider someone with an NA degree? Probably, however there are a number of considerations for hiring faculty:

1. A degree is only one ingredient in the mix. Most of the candidates that I see have regionally accredited terminal degrees (Since I oversee online programs, I do not mind doctorates that are earned online). 

2. I want someone with an understanding of what it takes to succeed online and prefer those with documented teaching success. Teach wherever you can.

3. The candidate must have current scholarly knowledge of the field. Evidence of this is service in professional associations, publishing in journals and trade publications, presenting at conferences and other forms of scholarships.

4. The candiidate must have practical knowledge of the subjects to be taught (i.e. has she done this successfully in real lilfe?)

5. Some subjects have higher demand than others (e.g. it is much harder to find qualified faculty in accounting or nursing than it is in English, psychology, organizational leadership or educational administration), so if you fill and area of institution need, then you have a much better chance.

For university faculty, the "trinity" of teaching, scholarship & service are what distinguishes successful candidates. On Degreeinfo, we often talk about earning a doctorate to teach in higher education, but I get vitas and resumes from doctors every week. Anyone who truly wishes to work in higher education, needs to have strengths in each section of the "trinity."
__________________
XXXXXX  XXXXXXXX, Ed.D.
Dean of Online Studies

NA schools produce very good professionals.
No NA is not sub standard never been sub standard or will be.
If anything it is the standard, and if you knew anything about the education system you would know that standard is set by accreditation mostly.

If you knew how many sub standard RA's produce in reality you will be very humbled, As a manager and professional I can tell you that in number of fields these who failed in iductry went to teach in university, so Academics with all the respect are in many occasions career failures.

New graduates from RA's do more damage in their early days in the industry. Why do you think the requirement for experience is so important?
Why do you think that in many professions one can't get license to practice unless they pass professional licensing exams? Because diploma is not sufficient, the professional bodies don't trust any one.

Now to the graduates from NA universities, these are very successful in industry, they know how and very practical.
I had 30 years to witness all kind of graduates.
A complete falure who we fired from our company went to teach at RA university, today I know 14 such "instructors"

You said "You have personal agenda. I have only good things to say about NA. No I'm not Grantham graduate but I do work with one." That says a lot about you and it is not positive!! NA is sub-standard. That has been said by many in education/academia. You are not in either so your opinion means nothing.

You have personal agenda. I have only good things to say about NA. No I'm not Grantham graduate but I do work with one.

Its a person who makes the school.
Even Harvard graduates some As-,..s

These RA colleges and universities are the bottom of the barrel. You are a Grantham Grad. You know nothing! NA sucks and so does Grantham!

Actually, the colleges are not bottom, they are simply going to take your money and graduate 7 to 15 % the rest will be a produce of dropout factories.

There are over 3,000 RA colleges and universities. You picked the 'bottom of the barrel'! To think that Grantham is ten times worse than these schools.... Wow!!!...that makes you really understand how bad Grantham is. This 'university' sucks!!!

Nestor was appalled. “It was like high school, but I was paying for it,” he says.

Several students he knew dropped out, but Nestor stayed. “I wasn’t going to give them my money and let them kick me out,” he says. For the next two years, Nestor encountered a ceaseless array of impediments to getting through school. When he wanted to get a tutor, his advisers couldn’t offer any advice about who might be available. When he visited the financial aid office to clear up what seemed like a simple clerical error depriving him of a state grant, the office told him—untruthfully, as it turned out—that getting such grant money would disqualify him from getting any scholarship money from the Pullman Foundation. (By the time the situation was straightened out, the first semester of his sophomore year was nearly over, and the financial office gave Nestor only $780 of what was supposed to be a $1,200 grant, telling him that it couldn’t give him money for a semester that was ending. “It kind of felt like they were stealing from me,” he says.) Only with the help of two dedicated instructors—Shuming Zheng, an engineering professor, and Thomas Kuhn, a physics lecturer—was Nestor able to finish his pre-engineering credits as planned. Fortunately, this allowed him to transfer to a superior school, the University of Illinois at Chicago, with a $5,000 scholarship.

Above is the  the Washington Monthly's 2010 rankings of the 4-year public and private not-for-profit colleges in America with the worst graduation rates. 
Top RA Drop Out factories

Graduation
Rate
1	Southern University at New Orleans (LA)*	5%
2	Allen University (SC)††	6%
3	Martin University (IN)	7%
4	Bellevue University (NE)	7%
5	Calumet College of Saint Joseph (IN)	7%
6	Baker College of Auburn Hills (MI)	7%
7	Visible School, Music and Worships Arts College (TN)	8%
8	University of the District of Columbia*	8%
9	Saint Augustine's College (NC)	8%
10	Nyack College (NY)	8%
11	East-West University (IL)	9%
12	Haskell Indian Nations University (KS)*	9%
13	Crichton College (TN)†	9%
14	Jarvis Christian College (TX)	10%
15	Edward Waters College (FL)	11%
16	Oglala Lakota College (SD)*	11%
17	Baker College of Clinton Township (MI)	12%
18	Heritage University (WA)	12%
19	Davenport University (MI)	12%
20	Texas College	12%
21	Texas Southern University*	13%
22	Chicago State University*	13%
23	Purdue University, North Central Campus (IN)*	13%
24	Macon State College (GA)*	13%
25	West Virginia University at Parkersburg*	13%
26	Mountain State University (WV)	13%
27	Saint Paul's College (VA)	13%
28	Nevada State College*	13%
29	University of Houston, Downtown (TX)*	14%
30	Louisiana State University, Shreveport*	15%
31	Utah Valley University*	15%
32	University of Alaska Southeast*	15%
33	Boricua College (NY)	15%
34	University of Great Falls (MT)	16%
35	Bryn Athyn College of the New Church (PA)	16%
36	Coppin State University (MD)*	16%
37	Paul Quinn College (TX)	16%
38	Idaho State University*	16%
39	Holy Names University (CA)	17%
40	Huston-Tillotson University (TX)	17%
41	University of Texas at Brownsville*	17%
42	Bacone College (OK)	17%
43	Marygrove College (MI)	17%
44	Rogers State University (OK)*	18%
45	Long Island University, Brooklyn Campus (NY)	18%
46	Miles College (AL)	18%
47	Western New Mexico University*	18%
48	Sul Ross State University (TX)*	18%
49	Northeastern Illinois University*	18%
50	Life University (GA)	19%

You said "Its obvious. No one here claims NA is as good as RA." You are incorrect. Actually many individuals in this forum have claimed that NA is as good as RA. What a joke!!!!

Yes, GU is not UoP, it's worse. It's a NA degree. Ughhh. What a freaking criminal waste. Too bad organizations like GU and UoP pay off Congress with their lobbyists to pass laws to protect their online education scam. It is truly sad. Some online is good, but these two are truly the bottom feeders of high school drop-outs.

From what I read, Phoenix used to be an OK school. Then the Apollo corp took over and they are making huge profits, making cooky cutter campuses.
I seen the TV investigative report.

A lot big $$$$$$$ is involved, follow the $$$$$$$ and thing may clear up.
I also heard that they don't need professors to grade papers. If you are are employed and hold masters degree from RA or foreign equivalent university you can take the training and become adjunct(Paper Grader.  For some in this economy this is extra paycheck.


GU is not Phoenix. It has to gain a lot and the graduates as well from becoming RA, if and when this happens.

to be honest, schools like that tend to treat teachers like cattle; Univ of Phoenix is notorious for giving you a class, then not telling you anything and not assigning you anything for another year; adjuct faculty at these bottom of the food chain schools are not treated like real professors, as they are not real professors.  Just how these schools can be regionally accredited is beyond me in a way; WASC would never allow it.  Most are accredited by Northcentral region; they have a two tier system, one for the normal schools and one for the bottom feeders.  the former is usually a rigorous thing with ten year accreditation. the latter is a year by year thing.  Northcentral is being investigated by the department of education and I'm betting on a comeuppance soon; there will be a big shake up in the for profit and adult learning market; remember, it has grown SO quickly and it is so astronomically large in potential; there is always a development in quality with occasional shake out periods; at first all you have is the first entrant, in this case phoenix; they get away with anything as they are the only game in town. then lots of quick entrants to the market as it is such a rich field, most will be crap; then big shake outs; what happens when Northcentral is forced to require that regionally accredited schools have mostly PhD faculty?  Many will fold, others will radically change.  Univ of Phoenix is equivalent to a clown college, good luck to all the poor souls that waste their time and money

You don't know what you are talking about.
You agenda is clear, as you are most likely afraid of the competition the free society and education business is producing.

I would like to see a national attestation system. 
Graduates take independent examinations and prove their knowledge. 

I personally work with number of MBA's with Phoenix degrees, very qualified and well educated managers.

2. Under ABET's current policies, US programs are eligible for accreditation if they are offered by institutions with either (Section II.A.1.a) institutional accreditation from a USDoE-recognized agency, or (Section II.A.1.b) "appropriate approval by a State authority." The latter section indicates that programs may be accredited by ABET even if they lack USDoE-recognized institutional accreditation. This is admittedly uncommon in practice, but it can and does occur.

I would venture to say this school is more worthless than a University of Phoenix degree, and that is really saying something. Freaking scary. The Dept of Education will eventually have its comeuppance. Grantham and Phoenix and the like are all going down.

also accredits clown colleges and barber colleges. Grantham, one step below. RA rules.

You make fine point. In general if GU gets RA and later PA in the fields of EE, ET such as ABET or business professional accreditation etc it all will make the graduates more successful.

RA brings consideration for an TAC of ABET stamp, or CAC of ABET. The professional accreditation makes a difference, and opens a ton of otherwise closed doors. 

Although I have made a great deal of money with my Grantham BSEET, it would be nice to flash an ABET credential in the Brick-and-Mortar naysayer's face. 

NA is fine FOR NOW.... but if Grantham wants to get serious enrollment numbers in the fields of Electronics and Computer Engineering, they need an ABET stamp.

My .02

Its obvious.
No one here claims NA is as good as RA. What is communicated is that NA is valid accreditation and degrees have good utility bit there are limitations  when it comes to transferring credit to RA universities as they are the majority in USA.

As mentioned earlier RA will provide better utility but NA is by it self a valid and recognized accreditation.

Why so excited about the possibility of RA? Most Grantham (foolish) supporters claim that NA is as good as RA!!! 
Why not go to the best to begin with? A unversity that is RA!!! Any where else but Grantham!

Way to go Grantham University.

This is a really good step forward and when you earn RA it will serve your graduates very well.

I always support schools that try to better them selves and the opportunities of their graduates.

Earning RA is very expensive as well.

Never say Never
You will be proven wrong.
Eat your heart out :-)

Grantham will NEVER be a RA university! I am 100% sure of that!

Thanks for posting the list.
I'm 100% positive Grantham will gain candidacy for RA NCA accreditation.

Grantham is on the visit list for the HLC on 9/27/10. 

Ref: h t t p://ncahlc.org/information-for-the-public/visit-list.html

We're all entitled to our opinions. Some people appreciate my list. Many of these threads have people asking for other options and I gave them plenty. The site will decide whether or not it's spam. If you don't like it, don't look at it.

You can stand as match as you want, you are deceiver.
NA degree holders like me reap benefits of our hard earned education every day.
You want to send everybody in totalitarian way like Stalin to only RA way.
Many of us say NA is as good for us and we have the right to make the choice.
So like it or not we are here to stay and you can bark at the three as long as you want.

Like I said " I stand by my statement that NA schools are a joke! You however are a fool and an ass!"

I compared assignments, text books, lectures from RA state universities, UoP, Devry, UC Davis, Berkeley and 5 DETC universities.

Just to prove a point I asked my current professor, who is an expert in his field and FT faculty at Cornel to grade number of assignments from DETC and RA schools on the same subject and same text book.

All assignments scored B or higher. DETC was not better and not worse the same score as RA.

I didn't have any assignments from UC schools.
I had Devry, NYU, UoP and Cal State Northrige  Long Beach,
Aspen Univ, Ashword, Cal Coast Univ, Southern Cal University, 
Cal National University.

At work, when we administer technical examinations to all candidates, I also see similar results.
Some times a brilliant candidate from Military background.

To my surprise some foreign candidates score less, especially from India
It maybe due to their English proficianty limitations.

My professor held the same opinion that NA are for hairdressers or nurse assistants, vocational education.

He is willing now to look at NA's in a new way.

You forgot to say that you also have Ph.D from Harvard and you are an astronaut, it obvious that anyone can say anything here.

Prove please

RE: @DETC Schools are a Joke (Aug. 15th)

You said: "There is no basis to your claims.
You hate them because you expected an easy ride and failed their classes.
So as a looser you just try to get you anger at your inability to graduate DETC school.
You know who is the real joke here."

I have a BA and MEd from regionally accredited universities! I have never attended a NA schools but I have seen the assignments and exams from those who have. I stand by my statement that NA schools are a joke! You however are a fool and an ass!

Listing all those schools is just SPAM.  There is no point to do so and you did it in a dozen threads.  All that needs to be said is traditional unis now widely offer online programs.  Need more info, ask.

If you go to school in-state, you can save money with in-state tuition and qualify for state grants on top of federal grants depending on the state.

Yes, Grantham does have a right to exist and people do have a right to attend this school. I also have the right to name a hundred other colleges with online programs, many of which charge less and have regional accreditation.

You are lying, there are many professionals with successful career who hold HA degrees.
I'm one of them.

As a manager in top Engineering company I don't discriminate between universities or candidates based on the accreditation.
But AH's I don't hire.  If you pass the entry interview and able to take the exam, show you are a team player you will be hired NA, RA or SA I don't really care as long as you know what you are doing and HAVE THE RIGHT ATTITUDE!!!!

There is no basis to your claims.
You hate them because you expected an easy ride and failed their classes.

So as a looser you just try to get you anger at your inability to graduate DETC school.

You know who is the real joke here.

I believe DETC schools are a joke!!!! No comparison AT ALL to RA universities (the GOLD STANDARD)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry Miki!!!!!

is the only business that will accept people with NA degrees. You can work the register or flip burgers, your choice. Janitorial services MAY accept NA degrees, it depends, sometimes they get a little hooty and want an RA degree.

Bottom line metaphor -- NA is like the mall rent-a-cop. RA is like the LA vice squad. There is no comparison, and everyone knows it, Esp Grantham. Why would Grantham waste $10million dollars on an RA upgrade, when suckers will pay them for their crappy NA degree. It's a business, plain and simple.

Some good schools listed, I respect most of them.
No one is stopping people to attend these schools.

Grantham has right in free society to exist and offer degrees and if students choose to study there its their right.

Obviously, this is just the South, so just imagine how many non-profit schools across the country offer online courses and/or programs.

Even more traditional schools with online courses and/or programs.

Texas
Alvin Community College
Amberton University
Central Texas College
Dallas Baptist University
Dallas TeleCollege
Grayson County College
Lamar University
Midwestern State University
Northwest Vista College
Odessa College
Palo Alto College
Panola College
Prairie View A&M University
Sam Houston State University
St. Philip's College
Stephen F. Austin State University
Tarleton State University
Texas A&M University, College Station
Texas A&M University, Commerce
Texas A&M University, Kingsville
Texas Wesleyan University
University of Houston, Clear Lake
University of Houston, Victoria
University of North Texas
University of Texas, Brownsville and Texas Southmost College
University of Texas, Dallas
University of Texas, El Paso
University of Texas, Health Science Center at Houston
University of Texas, Permian Basin
University of Texas, San Antonio
Wayland Baptist University
West Texas A & M University
Western Texas College

Virginia
Blue Ridge Community College, Virginia
Central Virginia Community College
Dabney Lancaster Community College
Danville Community College
Eastern Shore Community College
Germanna Community College
J. Sargeant Reynolds Community College
John Tyler Community College
Longwood University
Lord Fairfax Community College
Mountain Empire Community College
New River Community College (Virginia)
Northern Virginia Community College
Old Dominion University
Patrick Henry Community College
Paul D. Camp Community College
Piedmont Virginia Community College
Rappahannock Community College
Southside Virginia Community College
Southwest Virginia Community College
Thomas Nelson Community College
Tidewater Community College
Virginia Commonwealth University
Virginia Highlands Community College
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University (Virginia Tech)
Virginia Western Community College
Wytheville Community College

West Virginia
Blue Ridge Community and Technical College (West Virginia)
Bluefield State College (West Virginia)
Bridgemont Community & Technical College (previously Community & Technical College at WVU Tech)
Concord University
Eastern WV Community and Technical College
Fairmont State University
Marshall University
Mountwest Community & Technical College
West Liberty University
West Virginia Northern Community College
West Virginia University
West Virginia University at Parkersburg
West Virginia University Institute of Technology

More traditional schools with online courses and/or programs.

Louisiana
Baton Rouge Community College
Bossier Parish Community College
CALL
Delgado Community College
Grambling State University
Louisiana State University and A & M College
Louisiana State University, Alexandria
Louisiana State University, Eunice
Louisiana State University, Health Sciences Center, New Orleans
Louisiana State University, Shreveport
Louisiana Tech University
McNeese State University
Nicholls State University
Northwestern State University
Nunez Community College
River Parishes Community College
South Louisiana Community College
Southeastern Louisiana University
Southern University and A&M College
Southern University at New Orleans
Southern University at Shreveport
University of Louisiana at Lafayette
University of Louisiana at Monroe
University of New Orleans

Maryland
Anne Arundel Community College
Capitol College
College of Southern Maryland
Morgan State University
Towson University
University of Baltimore
University of Maryland Baltimore
University of Maryland Baltimore County

Mississippi
Alcorn State University, Natchez Campus
Coahoma Community College
Mississippi State University
Mississippi University for Women
Mississippi Valley State University
University of Southern Mississippi

North Carolina
Alamance Community College
Central Carolina Community College
Cleveland Community College
Coastal Carolina Community College, NC
Durham Technical Community College
East Carolina University
Elizabeth City State University
Fayetteville Technical Community College
Haywood Community College
North Carolina State University
Pitt Community College
Randolph Community College
University of North Carolina, Charlotte
University of North Carolina, Pembroke
Western Carolina University

Oklahoma
Cameron University
Northwestern Oklahoma State University
Oklahoma Panhandle State University
Oklahoma State University, Oklahoma City
Oklahoma State University, Stillwater
Rogers State University
Southeastern Oklahoma State University
University of Central Oklahoma

South Carolina
Clemson University
Limestone College
Medical University of South Carolina
Piedmont Technical College
University of South Carolina, Aiken
University of South Carolina, Columbia
University of South Carolina, Upstate
York Technical College

Tennessee
Austin Peay State University
East Tennessee State University
Middle Tennessee State University
Pellissippi State Community College
Tennessee Regents Online Degree Programs
Tennessee State University
Tennessee Technological University
The University of Memphis
University of Tennessee, Health Science Center, Memphis
University of Tennessee, Knoxville
University of Tennessee, Martin
University of Tennessee, Space Institute

All of these tradition schools offer online degree courses and/or programs.

Alabama
Amridge University
Auburn University
Calhoun Community College
Enterprise State Community College
Jacksonville State University (Alabama)
Lurleen B. Wallace Community College
Northwest-Shoals Community College
Troy University
Troy University, Montgomery Campus
United States Sports Academy
University of Alabama
University of Alabama, Birmingham
University of Alabama, Huntsville
University of North Alabama

Arkansas
Arkansas State University, Beebe
Arkansas State University, Jonesboro
Arkansas State University, Mountain Home
Arkansas State University, Newport
Arkansas Tech University
Cossatot Community College of the University of Arkansas
East Arkansas Community College
Henderson State University
North Arkansas College
NorthWest Arkansas Community College
Ozarka College
Phillips Community College of the University of Arkansas
Pulaski Technical College
Southeast Arkansas College
Southern Arkansas University
Southern Arkansas University Tech
University of Arkansas, Community College Hope
University of Arkansas, Fayetteville
University of Arkansas, Fort Smith
University of Arkansas, Little Rock
University of Arkansas, Monticello
University of Arkansas, Pine Bluff
University of Central Arkansas

Delaware
Delaware Technical & Community College
University of Delaware

Florida
Brevard Community College
Broward College
Daytona State College
Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University
Florida Agricultural & Mechanical University
Florida Atlantic University
Florida Gulf Coast University
Florida Institute of Technology
Florida State College at Jacksonville
Florida State University
Gulf Coast Community College
Indian River State College
Northwest Florida State College
Nova Southeastern University
Palm Beach Community College
Pensacola Junior College
Saint Leo University
Santa Fe College
St. Johns River Community College
St. Petersburg College
Tallahassee Community College
University of Central Florida
University of Florida
University of South Florida
University of West Florida

Georgia
Albany State University
Armstrong Atlantic State University
Brenau University
Columbus State University
Darton College
Georgia College & State University
Georgia Institute of Technology
Georgia Southern University
Georgia Southwestern State University
Georgia State University
Georgia Virtual Technical College
Gwinnett Technical College
Kennesaw State University
Middle Georgia College
North Georgia College & State University
Southern Polytechnic State University
Southwest Georgia Technical College
University of Georgia
University of West Georgia
Valdosta State University

Kentucky
Eastern Kentucky University
Midway College
Morehead State University
Murray State University, Kentucky
University of Louisville
Western Kentucky University

Correction , not SST but EET ABET accredited programs coming to number of selected for pilot by ABET.

BTW I used to be ABET accreditation evaluator as a Licensed Member of NSPE and Sr Member in IEEE, participating in number of comities and activities.

In my meeting with leadership at ABET and some reps of NA universities who are willing to take the next step, ABET may
try to accredit number of programs at NA universities.

ABET accredits today the Masters program at CA flight Institute that has no institutional accreditation at all.

So far the CA state approved school proved to be deserving this accreditation.
Number of NA pilots will be launched for SST only .
ABET will not accredit NA DL EE programs at this time.

The only reason BSEET credits are not recognized by Citadel is because they are not ABET accredited.

So as stated before in the field of Engineering and Engineering Technology its worth wile to get ABET accredited program degree.

Likely for my two friends with NA BSEET degrees they got in to UK  MEE programs that are IET(ECUK) Accredited - so by Washington accord they are ABET equivalent and recognized in USA as such.

You said:

"I just wanted to point out that the Citadel was unwilling to accept any of my credits from Grantham for their Engineering program but the only requirement for acceptance into the graduate program for Project Management is that your degree is from an institution recognized by CHEA."

On July 30th I said:
"The problem is your degree will not be recognized by many other universities (R.A. universities which represent the vast majority of universities in this country) and by numerous prospective employers. That is not to say that you will never find a job. I do believe that if you are going to put in the effort to earn a degree then it should be one that is recognized by all (as are R.A. university degrees). That is really the point that you cannot argue away. There is a gold standard in every aspect of life. In the area of education R.A. universities are the gold standard. Why not go for the best?"

Your unfortunate experience (with Grantham Degree/credits not being recognized by The Citadel) matches what I had to say about DETC credits not being universally accepted by RA universities. I have been in education for a long time. I know of what I speak. The others do not have a fraction of my experience. Please listen to me.

Thanks for the info.  I am not sure when I intend to apply as I just finished the BSEET program from Grantham.  I still have to get the two letters of recommendation, the resumes, and take the GMAT.  I was looking at the practice tests online for the GMAT and to be honest, the information is very basic that you are being tested on, even on the advanced parts.  

I just wanted to point out that the Citadel was unwilling to accept any of my credits from Grantham for their Engineering program but the only requirement for acceptance into the graduate program for Project Management is that your degree is from an institution recognized by CHEA.

When taking ENgineering degree check if you are required to have ABET accredited Engineering or Engineering Technology degree.
Many utilize the non ABET accredited ENgineering degrees but if you desire higher acceptance and utility then NA may not be
for you.

I respect and salute to all military.

But if you were my son I would ask you "SON WHAT WERE YOU THINKING" :-) why didn't you do a better research. Grantham is not a bad school. DL is not for every one. I interview many candidates prior to making a hiring decision. I state this with high confidence there are graduates from top tier schools that can't do the job, Every university has % of unsatisfied students.

Self learners motivated by learning do a lot to study. For example you can suplemen you study by YouTube lectures from MIT, Stamford, Yale, CalTech etc. 

Its the the student who makes the University.
Two years ego I hired this nerd from UCLA( I trusted his credential more than I should have) who burned a 2 million $$$$$ equipment on his second day on the job.

this school sucks the lifeblood out of the military, leaving the walking dead. zero education for the TA. NA is even preached against at all the education offices in the military. Grantham is horrible, buyer beware.

Say what?  I never took the Project Management Cert at the Citadel.  I took the MBA which is a full degree.  Not a 12 hour certification. There is nothing wrong with the Cert but it is not a degree.

When do you intend to do it?  The submission deadline was July 20.  You need a high GRE/GMAT score, professional experience in Project Management, and back-checked work history.  I completed that program several years ago but I had already been a manager at Raytheon.

Joe, the Citadel will take a Grantham's Bachelor and allow me into the Project Management program, which is what I intend to do.

They are very specific with their engineering program, however.

@all... I told everyone nothing from Grantham would transfer to higher rated schools, ie The Citadel.  I also already told everyone an EET is not comparable to an EE.  I hope you took the advice of the admissions officer, going to Trident and then transferring to night courses at The Citadel will get you a very good BSEE degree.  It isn't the Corps of Cadets like I did, but still the same courses and the same nationally ranked program.  Your inquiry should open the eyes to the rest of the people here that Grantham credits won't transfer to many non-profit RA schools.  DETC just isn't accepted.

I am very proud of my master's from GCU. It has allowed me to secure a higher paying position with greater responsibilities. Everyone has made their own experiences with this university. I have read all of the comments and reviews. It is simply human nature to be upset and to want to place blame on the school for not having successfully completed their degree programs, especially in our society where people want to 'finger point'. I found the post from April 26th to be very accurate. He/she wrote:

"This forum (and others on this website) is a microcosm of our society. We have become a society of ‘finger-pointers’. It is never ‘YOUR fault’. There is always someone else to blame. Blame the professor because YOU failed the course. Point the finger at the financial aid office because you were charged tuition because YOU didn’t drop by the cut-off date. Blame the university because YOU couldn’t handle the academics and dropped out! Point the finger at the university because YOU say that they are not acting “Christian enough’. Blame and point the finger! This is the way of today. It is so sad. YOU are all pitiful!!!"

Unfortunately, I have to agree. Almost every single negative
comment or review is from someone who FAILED. They FAILED to finish their programs. What would you do if you were that person? Would you take responsibility for having FAILED? Probably not; you would more likely finger point! That is exactly what is going on in this forum. 

I would encourage everyone to read the comments and reviews very carefully. If you look at the comments and reviews, you find that numerous alums have undergraduate degrees from UCLA, Penn State and other well known prestigious universities. They are in the fields of business (MBA's), Organizational Leadership or Education. They are individuals that have actually achieved something. 

I guess at the end of the day you have to decide who you are going to believe. Those that have succeeded and achieved or those that have FAILED and Finger Point! The decision is yours alone. I thank you for your attention.

Unfortunately I believe you, COO and all the others are really mssing the point. The vast majority of RA schools will not accept DETC credits and degrees. Since RA schools represent the vast majority of universities in this country, that makes your DETC very limiting. That is all that I am saying. I am not saying that you cannot find an exception to this rule. I am not saying that you cannot find a job with a DETC degree. I am saying to those considering a DETC university; do your homework very well before deciding. That you and the others simply cannot argue with.

Wile employers are not "obligated," to accept any degree, they usually have policies and practices in this area, and prospective students are correct in trying to determine whether or not the degree they intend to seek will be acceptable. One may not be able to predict whether or not a degree will be accepted in a particular situation--but can in most--but one should ensure acceptability in order to maximize one's prospects. It is not a level playing field--the odds are highly stacked in favor of degrees from properly accredited schools.

Many DETC graduates are demonstrating practical capability in the field, not only theory.

I actually prefer DETC graduates.

R Douglas 

BBA Cal State Univ DH
MBA Aspen University
Ph.D  UNISA

From the NY Times:

"The Obama administration on Thursday released its controversial proposed regulations to end federal student aid to for-profit colleges whose graduates do not earn enough to repay their loans. "

For-profit universities benefit greatly from the government's financial aid programs. Because they're open admission, they tend to admit a lot of students who will not finish. I've witnessed this first-hand. However, it should be noted that those who do get an education worthy of the degree awarded. It's really Darwinian. I'd be fine with it if the taxpayers weren't subsidizing it. But the taxpayers are underwriting a lot (a lot!) of failure. do you know what the break-even point is for a school like UoP? That is, how many classes must a student take for the school to cover its fixed costs plus the variable costs incurred to that point? Three. That's it. Three. Classes taken after that point--minus the variable costs for the classes, represent profit to the university. Again, they have a lot of starts, but not so many finishes. I'd like to see some more accountability placed on the for-profit universities to admit only students with a good chance of finishing. Perhaps where the university pays the government back for loans and grants given to students who fail--paid back on a sliding scale. As for the trade schools, they should be on the hook regarding the employability of their graduates. After all, that's what they're really selling--jobs.

My advice is that you better do your homework! I agree that Kaplan is horrible from what I have heard (ture it is an RA but also a For-Profit). I would also tell you not to transfer to a N.A. school. Although some RA's are horrible (they are the For-Profit Universities although I will also say that there are some very good ones as well)you will be sorry if your attend a N.A. school. Be careful!

Linda
You can transfer your credit to Excelsior College, Thomas Edison State College NJ and couple of others Charter Oak I think, they all transfer almost all the credit.

You can also transfer up to 75% (90 credits) to NA universities, do a research is NA degree in criminal justice will work for you.

Kaplan University-ripoff!!!  RA
Unfortunately, I am a current student at Kaplan University's online program. I am taking the Criminal Justice program trying to get my bachelor's. What I am getting is a really bad headache.

The financial aid department there is so unprofessional, it is unreal. They cancel your Pell Grants without your knowledge just to begin with. It took me over a YEAR to get my financial aid rep to call me back...yes I said a year. They gave me another one, and she is no better. I email her my concerns, she emails me back to call her. I call her, she does not return my calls.

The financial aid department there covers each others tail, because, if you ask for a supervisor, nobody knows any names and is unwilling to escalate the issue. 

Kaplan University is the biggest mistake I ever made. I enrolled and am now in debt more than 20,000. If I continue, I still have a year to go and have to endure the ignorant people at Kaplan...but, if I withdraw I only have 94 credits that I found out won't transfer anywhere plus the debt. 

I don't recommend this online rip-off to anyone. Please, do yourself a favor and attend on campus. Don't be stupid like me.

Why not go for the best? You mean MIT, Harvard, Yale etc?

One need to afford the best, one need to be able to get in the best.
Not all RA's are equal, RA is simply meets minimum standard set by one of the 6 regionals.

People come from many different backgrounds and walk of life. For some an educated decision been made and they decided to go with a school that offers a track to a degree.
It so happen to be that the school I liked was NA DETC accredited.
There are today at least 5 DETC accredited Universities  such as WGU, APU that are also RA accredited.
There are number mostly for profit RA's that accept NA credit transfer.

My kid is graduating from RA ABA law school this year, in his case I wouldn't go for anything else.

For IT worker who needs an IT degree and number of Vendor Certs NA is a good degree.

I do agree that RA degree has better recognition and so better utility.
My NA degree was significantly more affordable then any RA option at the time. The school treated me very well.
Flexibility and fair policy in credit transfer all was a criteria I choose the school that I liked.

I think that for the Money GU charges I rather go to RA University.

But Aspen for example had EdD for 3600 USD, including their MBA.

I think in todays economy its a good deal. In RA university next to my home its 1000 USD per credit.

You said "No you are never wasting you time when you obtaining education and earning a recognized degree." The problem is your degree will not be recognized by many other universities (R.A. universities which represent the vast majority of universities in this country) and by numerous prospective employers. That is not to say that you will never find a job. I do believe that if you are going to put in the effort to earn a degree then it should be be that is recognized by all (as are R.A. university degrees). That is really the point that you cannot argue away. There is a gold standard in every aspect of life. In the area of education R.A. universities are the gold standard. Why not go for the best?

No you are never wasting you time when you obtaining education and earning a recognized degree.

Everyone has their circumstances.
Many NA DETC graduates found the flexibility and the education they needed. They are employed in their fields.

Simply DETC or others NA's would have been out of business long time ego but the trend is opposite, DETC is gaining greater recognition and wile it is not a Gold standard it is valuable to many of US.

The question to ask is Why would one elect DETC VS RA
The answer is, Flexibility, cost, transfer credit policy, the way you are treated and other reasons one may have.

Hey I want a Lexus and may some day will have it, today I drive Nisan and I'm happy with it.
It serves my needs, I made my research and made my mind as a free citizen. 
I'm a hiring manager and look at the whole picture, education is important one part of the evaluation of the new employee. Experience and testing candidates knowledge is as important or even more.

Do you read the latest news on how many students in traditional colleges cheat their way to the degree?

On July 21, 2010
@Miki wrote:
"I believe you are wasting your time and effort supporting this school. N.A. schools will never measure up no matter how many times your post in support of them. R.A. is the gold standard. There is no arguing that FACT!"

That really sums it up very well. Sorry folks, that is the simple truth. R.A. universities are the gold standard. N.A. schools lag way behind. END OF STORY!

And not all RA schools are equal.
RA states that they all meet minimum standard.
There are RA schools that are way above the standard and there are some that on probation as they violated or substandard.
To me RA means exactly that meets minimum standard.

You look at utility of the degree, you look at graduates satisfaction, ROI. 
I ask questions to.
as things evolve and don't remain static.

I think DETC should assume leadership role in DL as a specialty accredditor and maybe not as institutional accreditor, I ask what is relevance today for DETC when so many RA offer DL programs as well.

I still see how DETC and other NA's have right to exist, provide Institutional Accreditation

If you read my posts you will see that I don't deny that RA degrees have greater utility.

But I also state that there is room in the free society for others, competition can't hurt. It would be foolish to argue against well respected research universities etc.

NA universities today provide not just vocational trade certificates but all the way to DBA, DED degrees.

NA degree acceptance:

Federal government (civilian)--yes
Military--yes, usually
State and local governments--lots of them, yes
Private (commercial and not-for-profit)--hit-and-miss; I suspect more hits
Academia (administrative)--hit-and-miss; I suspect more misses
Academia (faculty)--almost always no

In a free society , people can make their own decisions, one wants a Lexus another wants a Ford etc.

As a hiring manager I don't discriminate between recognized accreditation degrees.

I wrote @Grateful Reader but not the other two. I have been in education for over three decades. I have instructed at three well known R.A. universities. Everyone in higher education knows that R.A. is the standard and that N.A. is inferior. It is really that simple. I am sorry to be the one to inform you of this if you didn't already know.

Reader beware the above 3 posts are the same person who tries to smear and give GU bad reputation.
Most likely a fired instructor or a drop out student who is
simply took it to far.

If you want to send you kid to one of these party schools, remember they may get the degree but also STD, Drug and Alcohol problems for life. Some never get home as they die of drug overdose etc.

RA god standard for indoctrinating

Be very glad you avoid Grantham. Your degree is considered a joke to the rest of the world. All they want is guaranteed military tuition assistance. NA is not a good accred.

You are very welcome! That is why we are here! We are here to warn the public about DETC schools and their short comings! They fall far short of the gold standard RA universities. Please check those out! You will be glad you did!

I want to say thankyou to ALLLLLLLLLLLLL the fine men and woman who took the time out to write a review. I almost made the deadliest mistake of enrolling with this school. I was down on my luck needed to get in school wasn't eligible for government assistance, grantham called  and said i didnt need financial aid use my soldier money and they would be paying me to go to school. so i'm like hell yeah but it was super easy , faxed over a couple of papers and hell the guy said i was to start next wednesday it felt crazy ,like damn thats its, my spider senses started tingling and something told me to checkout granthams reviews cause it was tooo easy, and i found all of you THANKYOU guys so much because i was about to make a serious mistake.

Lat time I checked DETC is providing institutional accreditation of schools that offer Associates, Bachelor , Masters degrees and now also Doctor of Business Admin and Doctor of Education degrees.
I seen some JD as well.

Not bad at all for yang accrediting agency in comparison to the older RA's.

DETC accredited degree opened all the doors I needed it to open.

I agree. DETC accredits truck driving schools, trade schools, and now is allow to accredit online schools. NA is low class. RA is the gold standard.

I believe you are wasting your time and effort supporting this school. N.A. schools will never measure up no matter how many times your post in support of them. R.A. is the gold standard. There is no arguing that FACT!

In addition, the academics is also not bad. They use the same text books, the instructors are qualified.
Yes this is DL so no one is feeding baby spoon the mature adult learner.

When I attended my DETC accredited University, I had video lectures, chats with instructors, great up to date  text books and manuals and also for my own benefit I watched the same classes lectures from Stanford University, MIT, Columbia, and many others leading research universities on YouTube and iTune University.
It was supplemental free.

Today as a hiring manager and an Engineer I don't discriminate between recognized degrees. If you know what you supposed to know and have the right attitude, a team player then you have a good chance to be hired.

So you say that totalitarian state is better.

I don't care if NA schools have to measure to RA.
If the degree meets my needs and I as a citizen of a free country made decision that I want this schools education then its my right. The Accreditation is recognized.
The university is empowered to grant degrees by the state.

Yes we all know about RA reputation and have no problem with people who want to attend RA schools, its their right, in the free society.

But last time I checked I lived in the free country.

Also lat time 
i checked many RA's cheat their way to the degree and not all of them are high quality, some are bottom feeders and some are top tear.

I believe you are wasting your time and effort supporting this school. N.A. schools will never measure up no matter how many times your post in support of them. R.A. is the gold standard. There is no arguing that FACT!

To Stop Cheats, Colleges Learn Their Trickery
New York Times:

At M.I.T., David E. Pritchard, a physics professor, was able to accurately measure homework copying with software he had developed for another purpose — to allow students to complete sets of physics problems online. Some answered the questions so fast, “at first I thought we had some geniuses here at M.I.T.,” Dr. Pritchard said. Then he realized they were completing problems in less time than it took to read them and were copying the answers — mostly, it turned out, from e-mail from friends who had already done the assignment.

About 20 percent copied one-third or more of their homework, according to a study Dr. Pritchard and colleagues published this year. Students who copy homework find answers at sites like Course Hero, which is a kind of Napster of homework sharing, where students from more than 3,500 institutions upload papers, class notes and past exams.

That article is downright chilling. I did not know the extent to which cheating has progressed. Notice that this is not cheating in online classes, this is cheating in regular B&M classrooms. It makes you wonder if many of the students who graduate will actually know anything because they cheated their way through.

RA B7M grads:

In surveys of 14,000 undergraduates over the last four years, an average of 61 percent admitted to cheating on assignments and exams.

From what I am seeing, a surprising number of recent graduates of top schools seem unable to produce truly original thought. They are essentially clueless without someone else's paper/website/book/etc to borrow from, and when they do write original material, it is choppy, doesn't flow, is full of syntactic and grammatical errors, and often belies a lack of true analysis of the material they're writing about. 

I have to assume this is a byproduct of having done this all the way through school. And as one of the NYT essayists said, part of it is a cultural phenomena in the era of Napster and Bittorrent and an erosion of the idea of ownership of intellectual property.

Congratulations!!!

Its an achievement. I this economic times I hear " I don't know whether I will get anywhere with this degree" from Columbia University graduates and many other name recognized school graduates.

Well I have finally finished the BSEET.  This program became very challenging once I hit the Calculus classes and then became even more difficult when I took Signals and Systems and Control Systems.  I don't know whether the degree is worth anything at all but I will say that it was hard and I feel pretty good about finishing it.  I saw a review that someone posted and blasted the college because they couldn't pass Signals and Systems.  I find that amusing because that further proves that the college will not just let anyone pass contradicting what many of the posters on this message board will have someone believe.

Again, I don't know whether I will get anywhere with this degree or not but it feels good to be finished.

GU degrees accepted for employment by Kinds of employers:

Federal government (civilian)--yes
Military--yes, usually
State and local governments--lots of them, yes
Private (commercial and not-for-profit)--hit-and-miss; I suspect more hits
Academia (administrative)--hit-and-miss; I suspect more misses
Academia (faculty)--almost always no

I have asked the HR section for State jobs located in Pennsylvania about this same issue while contemplating attending Harrison Middleton University. Their response was:

"As long as it is listed under the Department of Education, your okay."  GU is listed.

This tells me that the utility of DETC has increased significantly in the past decade or so.

above lead me to believe that many in the business world make little distinction between DETC and RA. Academia is a different story.

I work for State Government. The requirement is: "Must be recognized by USDOE and CHEA". So, my AA RA degree, along with my NA BS and NA MBA fit the bill perfectly.

Grantham is a money machine for venture capitalists. If you think this school is doing you any favors, buyer beware. They want the bottom line, that's it. It is a waste of money ($10M) for them to upgrade to RA. If suckers keep paying for a worthless NA degree, then why upgrade. Take a step back and think about it. Military tuition bloodsuckers.

I do agree that if one can they should attend an RA+PA university with name recognition, with good history of research and scholars.

For Engineers RA+ABET, for Psychology RA+APA etc.
I'm aware of for profits that are way to expansive, even if they are RA, still they charge an arm and a leg for the degree.

But just like in the automobile market in a free country people are allowed to do their homework and purchase the vehicle of their liking and need.

You want KIA or you want Lexus, Toyota or Audi, Siat, Fiat, Ford and many more.

Some give you good value for the money some don't.

In todays world one can get an education by watching YouTube.

No joke I supplemented my studies with lectures from MIT, Stanford, NYU and some other leading universities.

Usually you will find that DETC schools have similar curriculum, use the same text books and exams as the top tier universities.

They have good instructors but if for some reason you would like to view classes lead by Top tier University Professors all you need is ITunes University or YouTube.

Many Universities allow non degree students to attend lectures. I used to go to campus of 2 major universities to participate in lectures as a part of Open University agreement. It was almost free. I had to pay for parking and gas.

This is "Save Your Financial Life". I have seen you post in several forums and I know you have reacted to my 'educational posts' favorably. I am trying to make potential students aware of the financial impact of taking out huge student loans to attend some of these FOR-PROFITS. I am concentrating my efforts on several schools which have, in my opinion, exorbitantly high tuitions! According to government studies, these students are more than twice as likely to default on their loans. In addition, I believe that the money they have spent on their educations are simply not worth it!!! There are cheaper and better alternatives. In any case, I will keep up my efforts and you do the same. I am in agreement with what you are posting and together we can make a difference in warning and educating potential students.

Only because people badmouth this school.
I know number of graduates all are armed forces related and all have successful careers. The school worked for them.
Also because I'm a graduate of a DETC accredited university (not GU).  I defend GU and many other DETC accredited universities.

The way the school is attacked, maybe the question should be asked why so viciously and what motive the attackers have?

Its OK to criticize, I always say that they are to expansive in my view but I also like the flexibility they offer their students.

Hahaha......you attended a bullsh*t school!

Do you realize that you have been on this discussion board for about a year and a half defending Grantham? I am just wondering why you have spent all this time and energy defending this obviously sub-average school? Please explain.

I forgot to add Regionally Accredited Ellis University to the list of accepting DETV credit transfer and DETC degrees in to Graduate school, MBA etc.